Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Sebastian Heid via mailop]

Hi John,

take a look at https://github.com/mailcow/mailcow-dockerized. It's all you need 
(mail server, sogo groupware, antispam/-virus, 2fa,...). Put it on a VPS or 
your NAS and be happy. :)


Cheers
Seb

Am Mittwoch, 23. Februar 2022 14:10 CET, schrieb "Sinclair, John via mailop" 
:

> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, 
> not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting 
> my own email server for the family.  What's the best of breed these days for 
> small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 
> 1TB total - looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access 
> for mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for 
> file storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free 
> gmail account as a client - looking to only have the family have to keep one 
> username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I 
> have the hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a what OS/email/webmail is 
> best of breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also 
> something that can have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam...
> 
> Thoughts?

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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Ángel via mailop]

On 2022-02-23 at 17:49 +0100, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
> Why are you looking for a webmail close to Gmail? Gmail's webmail
> interface is one of the worst possible. It is very inefficient to
> operate,
> counter-intuitive, hides many important information from the user
> etc., not mentioning that it is simply ugly. There are many much
> nicer and more user-friendly webmails, like for example already
> mentioned Roundcube.

Probably because that's the client they are currently using. IMHO this
was the most interesting part of the query. Choosing the right MTA is
interesting for the sysadmin, but an implementation detail. There are
many good options, and I'm sure John would do fine with pretty much any
of them (add / remove some amount of initial sweating).
However, the UI… the interface is a completely different matter. You
could completely change the backend and your users won't even notice.
But change slightly the position of a button and Aunt Tillie will start
complaining how you broke everything and she is now unable to work with
the 'new system'

And here we are talking about a major migration to a completely
different interface. It won't be a problem if the users are reasonable
and a bit savvy, but the "for the family" bit makes me think that he
may have some users of that breed.
I would be interested in how it turns out.

Personally, I don't think Gmail it's *that* ugly. It has its
shortcomings, particularly it doesn't have full threading, and I have
found it doesn't let me insert/attach files with the "Modern"
interface.

I would happily provide a Gmail-like webmail look to my users. Some
users really like having their in gmail, and I have not received a
clear answer showing that it is objectively better than the webmail
they have at their disposal.

There is a commercial roundcube skin which claims to make it look like
Gmail, but I haven't tested it. I suspect it might change some parts to
look more like gmail, but only partially, which could be worse than
actually making it look like a separate products.

John, I would explore as well the option of them installing a local
client, such as Thunderbid, instead of using a webmail. If they always
use the same client machine)s), that setup should work fine, and a
local client will be more potent.

Maybe I will test some of the clients on that list.

A portion of them simply connect to the IMAP server, so you could
switch webmails (or even provide different ones at the same time) with
no consequences.
But I think some do require that you use *their* MTA.


Finally, another point you may want to take into account when
evaluating the software are the security fixes. If the programs you
install are packaged by your distribution, you may update them with a
simple upgrade of the systems. However, with separate apps will be more
complicated. And nowadays some servers/webmails aren't really supported
in upstream.


Best regards


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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Jay Hennigan via mailop]

On 2/24/22 16:40, Grant Taylor via mailop wrote:

On 2/24/22 1:44 PM, Jay Hennigan via mailop wrote:
Assuming that your home connection is typical residential broadband, 
consider a split system. Host your receiving SMTP at home with a 
dynamic DNS tracker to keep the MX pointed at your dynamic residential 
IP and use this for inbound mail to you.


I agree that inbound to a dynamic IP is somewhere between quite possible 
and trivial.


What I'm not quite sure of is why have inbound come directly to the 
dynamic IP as opposed to passing through the VPS / VPN.  As in what 
benefits do you think it would provide that outweigh inbound going to 
the VPS / VPN directly?


Primarily because your stated goal was to operate a mail server on a 
residential connection. Sure, you could pass everything through and it 
might be easier. Or do both and use the VPS/VPN as a backup MX.




--
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Jay Hennigan via mailop]

On 2/24/22 11:36, Grant Taylor via mailop wrote:

Maybe it's silly, but my understanding is that it's more difficult to 
/legally/ gain access to my email when it's hosted in my house as 
opposed to hosted on a VPS / CO-LO *without* /my/ /knowledge/ of it.  As 
in the police can take a warrant to the VPS provider / CO-LO and gain 
access to things /without/ /my/ /knowledge/.  Be it from a lack of 
monitoring on my part, gag order, what have you.  Conversely, the police 
can't come into my home *without* /my/ /knowledge/, even with a warrant.


Note:  This is predicated that I am, have been, and will be, WFH during 
the execution of the warrant.


Assuming that your home connection is typical residential broadband, 
consider a split system. Host your receiving SMTP at home with a dynamic 
DNS tracker to keep the MX pointed at your dynamic residential IP and 
use this for inbound mail to you.


Because sending mail from a dynamic residential IP is going to be 
problematic, use a VPS or VPN to an offsite hosted static IP for your 
outbound mail. Do no logging or storage at the offsite location.


Of course, if you're worried about search warrants, capturing traffic in 
flight is likely to be the means of interception rather than physical 
access to hardware located at your residence, so yes, maybe it's silly. 
End-to-end strong encryption isn't really universal for email traffic 
between different end systems. Even if it were, tracking the fact that 
the communication took place is trivial for three-letter agencies 
without visiting your residence even if the content is encrypted.


--
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Grant Taylor via mailop]

On 2/24/22 10:38 AM, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
I guess theres no single answer to that question that everybody will 
agree upon :).


Let's agree to /disagree/.  ;-)

But as for me, I would understand hosting any service X (be it email, 
web or anything else) "entirely" at your home (on a home server) 
as the case when that home server provides everything needed for the 
service X to work (except of course the Internet connection itself and 
maybe DNS, as you should have at least secondary DNS server somewhere 
outside your network).  No other resources (even belonging to you, 
but outside your home) and/or third parties are involved (of course - 
again - except your ISP who provides your home Internet connection).


I think you've introduced a new restriction that I didn't realize 
existed when I previously replied.  It seems as if you have introduced 
"at your home", which would preclude a VPS / CO-LO.  However I was 
thinking "self hosted" /wherever/ that may be located, which allows for 
a VPS / CO-LO.


My goal of the "entirely self hosted" was to avoid external entities at 
the email application layer (SMTP, IMAP, HTTP, etc.) on the receiving 
side.  E.g. from the inbound MX onward.


If you use a VPS or even a colocated server in a data center, that is 
no more the case when you use *only* the home server. And if you need 
a VPS (or colocated box), why not host your mail entirely on that 
VPS?


Maybe it's silly, but my understanding is that it's more difficult to 
/legally/ gain access to my email when it's hosted in my house as 
opposed to hosted on a VPS / CO-LO *without* /my/ /knowledge/ of it.  As 
in the police can take a warrant to the VPS provider / CO-LO and gain 
access to things /without/ /my/ /knowledge/.  Be it from a lack of 
monitoring on my part, gag order, what have you.  Conversely, the police 
can't come into my home *without* /my/ /knowledge/, even with a warrant.


Note:  This is predicated that I am, have been, and will be, WFH during 
the execution of the warrant.


Mail storage does not need a lot of disk and even a small VPS will 
do (as an example, currently my entire mailbox, which contains mail 
archives since 1997, is little under 9 GB in size), and it's simpler - 
you do not need to split the service between two servers.


I completely agree.

And in this particular case we are discussing, not only a VPS is 
involved, but also a 3rd party service that acts both as a MX for 
incoming mail and as an outgoing SMTP server that actually delivers 
mail to recipients.


I see no need for the 3rd party SMTP server when using a VPS / CO-LO as 
described.  As such, the email (SMTP / IMAP / HTTP) is all "entirely 
self hosted" (on a system in my house).


The OP even said that the VPS could be omitted, but the 3rd party 
service is essential for him. For me, that definitely doesn't qualify 
as self-hosting.


The OP has offered subsequent clarification on this which I think mostly 
voids your statement.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 06:38:24PM +0100, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
> And in this particular case we are discussing, not only a VPS is involved,
> but also a 3rd party service that acts both as a MX for incoming mail and as
> an outgoing SMTP server that actually delivers mail to recipients. The OP
> even said that the VPS could be omitted, but the 3rd party service is
> essential for him. For me, that definitely doesn't qualify as self-hosting.

To be fair (to me), the 3rd party service is only new in the past 3
years. Prior to that, communication to/from the internet was a Kimsufi
(OVH) colo box.  Perhaps I was lucky in that my IP wasn't listed in any
blocklists.  I'd 'self-hosted' like that for over 20 years.

The VPS could be omitted.  Alternatively the 3rd party service could be
omitted if you can find yourself a decent IP that the world won't block
either via a VPS or VPN.

I wouldn't say the 3rd party serive is 'essential' - or maybe that was
the pun because it is 'Proofpoint Essentials' :)   As noted, it is a
relatively new addition to my setup - and I chose to do that more for
the email security aspects (I no longer care about running spamassassing
or clamav, etc).

PG
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop]

Dnia 24.02.2022 o godz. 09:30:27 Grant Taylor via mailop pisze:
> 
> What I don't know is if this qualifies as "hosting entirely
> yourself". Does the reliance on a VPS to be an L3 endpoint break
> "entirely"?  Does substituting the VPS with a box that you Co-Lo
> change anything?

I guess theres no single answer to that question that everybody will agree
upon :).

But as for me, I would understand hosting any service X (be it email, web
or anything else) "entirely" at your home (on a home server) as the case
when that home server provides everything needed for the service X to work
(except of course the Internet connection itself and maybe DNS, as you
should have at least secondary DNS server somewhere outside your network). 
No other resources (even belonging to you, but outside your home) and/or
third parties are involved (of course - again - except your ISP who provides
your home Internet connection).

If you use a VPS or even a colocated server in a data center, that is no
more the case when you use *only* the home server. And if you need a VPS (or
colocated box), why not host your mail entirely on that VPS? Mail storage
does not need a lot of disk and even a small VPS will do (as an example,
currently my entire mailbox, which contains mail archives since 1997, is
little under 9 GB in size), and it's simpler - you do not need to split the
service between two servers.

And in this particular case we are discussing, not only a VPS is involved,
but also a 3rd party service that acts both as a MX for incoming mail and as
an outgoing SMTP server that actually delivers mail to recipients. The OP
even said that the VPS could be omitted, but the 3rd party service is
essential for him. For me, that definitely doesn't qualify as self-hosting.
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Grant Taylor via mailop]

On 2/24/22 3:42 AM, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
So you are not hosting entirely yourself. You are using a 3rd party 
provider to send the mail for you.


Hosting your mail entirely on a home server (ie. using this server 
directly to send and receive, without a 3rd party provider), although 
theoretically possible, is very hard because of those 'dialup RBLs' you 
already mentioned.  They are currently probably the largest obstacle 
to self-hosting a mail server at home, because they are widely used, 
and blacklist all customer/residential Internet connections with a 
dynamic IP address, and even some static IP addresses too...


PSA:  I'm posting before I've had any caffeine.  That being said

I feel that it's very important to differentiate hosting (everything) 
yourself (at) home from the IP address(es) that the world communicates 
with.  Particularly germane is doing something like establishing a VPN 
between the server at your home and a (reputable) VPS provider wherein 
TCP port 25 is DNATed from the VPS to your home server and your home 
server egresses to the world via the VPS.


This separates where the hosting happens (your home) from the IP 
address(es) that the world sees (the VPS).


What I don't know is if this qualifies as "hosting entirely yourself". 
Does the reliance on a VPS to be an L3 endpoint break "entirely"?  Does 
substituting the VPS with a box that you Co-Lo change anything?


Even after some caffeine, I feel like this is an extremely distinction 
as the VPN method allows -- what I'll call -- recreational postmasters 
to host their own email in their house without the reliance on 3rd party 
email providers.  Not only does this /allow/ recreational postmasters, 
but I believe that it brings it within their reach for a reasonable effort.




--
Grant. . . .
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop]

Dnia 24.02.2022 o godz. 01:58:36 Paul Gregg via mailop pisze:
> 
> So I concur with John... it is perfectly possible to host yourself if
> you can get past things like 'dialup rbls' and other poor reputation
> blocks.  It's often easier just to let established providers do that
> bit.

So you are not hosting entirely yourself. You are using a 3rd party provider
to send the mail for you.

Hosting your mail entirely on a home server (ie. using this server directly
to send and receive, without a 3rd party provider), although theoretically
possible, is very hard because of those 'dialup RBLs' you already mentioned.
They are currently probably the largest obstacle to self-hosting a mail
server at home, because they are widely used, and blacklist all
customer/residential Internet connections with a dynamic IP address, and
even some static IP addresses too...
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Alessandro Vesely via mailop]

On Wed 23/Feb/2022 14:10:56 +0100 Sinclair, John via mailop wrote:
it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is best of breed these days, not only for 
robustness/security, but also something that can have at least some attempt at 
blocking most of the spam…



For an uncommon choice, let me mention Courier-MTA

It features SMTP, IMAP, POP3 and various filters.  I'm using it on Linux since 
the early 2000s and don't plan to change.  It also has a web interface, which I 
find horrible, but some users like better that than IMAP.  It also has an 
integrated mailing list manager with an interesting VERP, but can work with 
Mailman too.


For spam, it supports looking up DNSxL, for x=black, white, along with several 
filtering options.  See a list of features at

https://www.courier-mta.org/#features



Best
Ale
--





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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Paul Gregg via mailop  said:
>3rd Party Email security provider - using Proofpoint Essentials*
>- *disclaimer - I work for them, 3rd party/partner resellers do resell
>  it pretty cheaply

Oh, that should work fine, since the rest of the world sees Proofpoint as your 
mail host.

If you want to go that route with a spam filter proxy, there are plenty of 
options like
Mailchannels and Mimecast.  The cheapest credible one I know is Tucows, if you 
just want
the spam filtering, that's about $2/mailbox/yr via resellers.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Paul Gregg via mailop]

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 01:19:47PM -0500, John Levine via mailop wrote:
> It appears that Sinclair, John via mailop  said:
> > I have the hardware and the bandwidth, ...
> 
> More importantly, do you have a static IP with matching forward and reverse 
> DNS that
> is not in the PBL or otherwise policy blocked for sending mail?
> 
> By the time you go through all the hassle of managing spam filters and 
> getting your
> IP warmed up, Fastmail at $50/yr/mailbox looks pretty attractive.
> 
> If you can find someone who resells Tucows' white label e-mail, they have a 
> pretty
> good product for about $10/mailbox/yr for 5GB, $20 for 10GB, $30 for 15GB.
> 
> R's,
> John

I've run my own mailserver at home, usually on a dynamic IP, for over 25
years now. Started with qmail (Hi John), now postfix / dovecot and
letsencrypt for the certs.

It's definitely gotten more difficult to successfully do this of late,
but I've a solid system now. Might not be what anyone wants or needs,
but who knows, if it helps someone...

Local server in the house (dell r720xd - too big, but heh)
- Custom domains for me and all family members (this is usually what stops
  me hosting on another provider).
- Obviously as much disk as I want to throw at it.
- Connected to my DSL provider using a dynamic IP.
- Letsencrypt generates the certs

VPS on OVH (usually this is a bad idea, but actually this step isn't
necessary)
- Runs postfix, and a dyndns server
- Local server has a cron job to contact this vps to inform it 'this is
  my IP' and 'here is my certificate fingerprint'
- Server also runs a firewall and only allows this dynamic IP to talk to
  it and the internet facing mail service.
- None of this bit is strictly necessary - except a dynamic dns service
  (and you'd need to use SMTP Auth config from LocalServer to ESP)

3rd Party Email security provider - using Proofpoint Essentials*
- *disclaimer - I work for them, 3rd party/partner resellers do resell
  it pretty cheaply
- MX for my domains goes to Essentials, Inbound traffic is sent to my
  interim VPS
- Outbound email is received from the VPS and Essentials takes care of
  deliverability out to everyone else.

The VPS middle layer isn't really necessary - I just prefer it as it
means I've a buffer in case Proofpoint caches the DNS a little too long
and I can use it to validate the cert on the local server when it
connects (should my dynamic IP change and I don't send my email to some
rando).

So I concur with John... it is perfectly possible to host yourself if
you can get past things like 'dialup rbls' and other poor reputation
blocks.  It's often easier just to let established providers do that
bit.

PG
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[mailop--- via mailop]

Hello,

For just Mailserver: https://excision.bsd.ac/install/
For long story for a mailserver: https://workaround.org/ispmail/bullseye/
As a WUI I would take horde with calendar, addressbook, freebusy URL ...
Offtopic, like gmail for your own domain:
https://admin.yandex.ru/select-organization?productId=free=promo=mail360

Best Regards,
Juri Grabowski
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Noel Butler via mailop]

On 23/02/2022 23:10, Sinclair, John via mailop wrote:

Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days. 
 Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom 
domain, not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to 
rolling and hosting my own email server for the family.  What's the 
best of breed these days for small/micro servers hosting five-ish email 
accounts, probably no more than 1TB total - looking for 
as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, might 
even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file 
storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a 
free gmail account as a client - looking to only have the family have 
to keep one username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out 
Google entirely.  I have the hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a 
what OS/email/webmail is best of breed these days, not only for 
robustness/security, but also something that can have at least some 
attempt at blocking most of the spam…


Thoughts?
___


You can get a small cheap reliable VPS for around 10 USD a year from 
likes of host.us that would be perfect for what you want, install 
postfix, dovecot and you're up and running if all you want is a personal 
domain.


You can add on amavisd/spamassassin/clamav to deal with vermin as you 
get time, you can then add opendkim and dmarc also as your time permits.


As has already been stated, your initial setup should always involve 
setting  your matching DNS correctly, create SPF records, and use a few 
DNSBL's to stop the rot.


- That said, if your internet is reliable, I've run my personal mail 
server on a spare PC at home for family, extended family, and a few 
friends, for decades with next to no issues, also means if I changed 
employers I don't have to have downtime moving it all the time, I'm 
always sus of those who change IP's all the time, appears they have been 
up to no good.


--
Regards,
Noel Butler

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If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then 
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Slavko via mailop]

Ahoj,

Dňa Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:10:56 + "Sinclair, John via mailop"
 napísal:

> to rolling and hosting my own email server for the family.  What's

I use own mail server for some years (5 or so), using exim (+ rspamd
now) and dovecot (+ xapian FTS & roundcube) on Debian Linux, which
starts for one user only, but then some friends and family members want
account too and now are satisfied, without any issues with
deliverability of emails, even to big providers, which are know to be
restrictive (Microsoft & Google in my case).

Having own server gives more privacy, as one don't need to share info
with email providers and proves great possibilities to customize SPAM
filter, as here is only small number of users.

But, on other side, one have to have some knowledge in nowadays email's
word, as properly deal with PTR, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, TLS, etc. And
requires some knowledge. And one must be prepared to attacks - i deal
with ongoing distributed login attack for more than 8 months, and today
i am under some SPAM bomb attack, with about 2000 (yet) attempts to
send the same scam email to (existing & not existing) users from "their"
address. Another tasks, which one have to do includes monitoring,
backups, regular security upgrades and other standard admin things.

If you have not enough enthusiasm and/or knowledge to play with it, stay
with some provider...

But when you are brave (and IMO one have to) to do it itself, do not
worry, it is not as hard (while it is not setup and forget) as it is
described by some email providers in its PR articles and one cat get
great experience and privacy, with full customization to own needs.

When you abandon ClamAV idea, you do not need to worry about server
power and for small amount of users (emails) can be managed even on very
cheap hardware (i even starts it on Raspberry Pi 2, but that was bad
idea).

regards

-- 
Slavko
https://www.slavino.sk


pgpZqMnphj1rr.pgp
Description: Digitálny podpis OpenPGP
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Sinclair, John via mailop  said:
> I have the hardware and the bandwidth, ...

More importantly, do you have a static IP with matching forward and reverse DNS 
that
is not in the PBL or otherwise policy blocked for sending mail?

By the time you go through all the hassle of managing spam filters and getting 
your
IP warmed up, Fastmail at $50/yr/mailbox looks pretty attractive.

If you can find someone who resells Tucows' white label e-mail, they have a 
pretty
good product for about $10/mailbox/yr for 5GB, $20 for 10GB, $30 for 15GB.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Bryan Frimin via mailop]

"Sinclair, John via mailop"  writes:

> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom
> domain, not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling
> and hosting my own email server for the family.  What's the best of
> breed these days for small/micro servers hosting five-ish email
> accounts, probably no more than 1TB total - looking for
> as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, might
> even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file
> storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free
> gmail account as a client - looking to only have the family have to keep
> one username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google
> entirely.  I have the hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a what
> OS/email/webmail is best of breed these days, not only for
> robustness/security, but also something that can have at least some
> attempt at blocking most of the spam...

I've begun with OpenSMTP, but I've switched to Postfix as the primary
developer has stopped actively working on it. I now run Postfix,
Dovecot, Solr (for the search), and Rspamd, and it's working perfectly!

I don't use any webmail, but I know Roundcube is good if you want a
Gmail-like experience.

Regards,

-- 
Bryan Frimin
https://www.frimin.fr
br...@frimin.fr
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) via mailop]

Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen via mailop writes:

> If you have a reasonable insight into unix things, you could do worse =
> than going with OpenBSD and an OpenSMTPD setup along the lines of what =
> Aaron Poffenberger describes in his tutorial here: =
> https://vdocuments.site/opensmtpd-for-the-real-world-mail-server-tutorial-=
> introductionabackground.html =

Amen.  I've run OpenBSD + Dovecot for years and years, and it Just Works.

The smtpd configuration will be a bit different from anything you've
come across before, but it's pretty easy to google your way to a
working configuration, and there's lots of help available from the
m...@openbsd.org mailing list.

I find the out-of-the-box installation with greylisting enabled does
a pretty good job of spam eradication all on its own.  I haven't run
spamassassin for ages now.  The one thing I do wish for is better
SPF integration.  If I ever find some free cycles I plan to fix that.

--lyndon
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop]

Dnia 23.02.2022 o godz. 13:10:56 Sinclair, John via mailop pisze:
> hosting my own email server for the family.  What's the best of breed
> these days for small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts,
> probably no more than 1TB total - looking for
> as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, might even

Why are you looking for a webmail close to Gmail? Gmail's webmail interface
is one of the worst possible. It is very inefficient to operate,
counter-intuitive, hides many important information from the user etc., not
mentioning that it is simply ugly. There are many much nicer and
more user-friendly webmails, like for example already mentioned Roundcube.

Here I found an overview of various webmail apps, with screenshots of some.
You can pick something that suits you:
https://medevel.com/15-selfhosted-os-webmail-clients/
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Peter Nicolai Mathias Hansteen via mailop]

> 23. feb. 2022 kl. 14:10 skrev Sinclair, John via mailop :
> 
> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, 
> not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting 
> my own email server for the family.  What’s the best of breed these days for 
> small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 
> 1TB total – looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access 
> for mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for 
> file storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free 
> gmail account as a client – looking to only have the family have to keep one 
> username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I 
> have the hardware and the bandwidth, it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is 
> best of breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also 
> something that can have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam…

If you have a reasonable insight into unix things, you could do worse than 
going with OpenBSD and an OpenSMTPD setup along the lines of what Aaron 
Poffenberger describes in his tutorial here: 
https://vdocuments.site/opensmtpd-for-the-real-world-mail-server-tutorial-introductionabackground.html
 

 (originally a BSDCan session I believe).

I’ve been running similar setups for years (but with exim as the MTA mainly for 
inertia reasons), documented mainly in articles you can find via the first link 
in my signature. The most comprehensive is perhaps 
https://bsdly.blogspot.com/2014/02/effective-spam-and-malware.html 
, others 
will be tagged with keywords like spam, mail, spamd, smtp and so forth.

All the best,
Peter


—
Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team
http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/
"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic"
delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.






signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop]

23. Februar 2022 14:10, "Sinclair, John via mailop" mailto:mailop@mailop.org?to=%22Sinclair,%20John%20via%20mailop%22%20)>
 schrieb:
Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days. 
Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, not 
coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting my own 
email server for the family. What’s the best of breed these days for 
small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 1TB 
total – looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for 
mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file 
storage/sharing. Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free gmail 
account as a client – looking to only have the family have to keep one username 
(on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely. I have the 
hardware and the bandwidth, it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is best of 
breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also something that can 
have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam…

Thoughts?

I'm a UNIX/Linux guy, so naturally I'd favor a solution built on Linux or 
FreeBSD (although my personal experience is restricted to Linux these days).

For a full featured modern package with reasonable spam resistance I can vouch 
for Mailu (https://mailu.io) which requires Docker as a basis. Under the hood, 
this is postfix as MTA, dovecot for IMAP/POP3, rspamd as anti-spam solution (I 
think the SPF/DKIM/DMARC stuff is located there, too), Roundcube or RainLoop as 
webmail (both pretty usable, probably not as feature-rich as GMail), PostgreSQL 
for account persistence, and REDIS as memory cache mostly for the rspamd 
engine. Supports Letsencrypt out of the box, of course.
It does take some effort to set up the basics right (Docker and configuration) 
but then runs very reliably and is a breeze to manage.
Sadly, it does not integrate Mailman, so I had to do that manually, which is 
kind of a pain.

For a significantly smaller solution, you would need to install the parts from 
scratch (all are available in the standard package repositories AFAIK) and wire 
them together manually. User management is quite a bit more tedious then, but 
you may be more flexible.

Cheers,
Hans-Martin
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Re: [mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Mary via mailop]

At work, we use this little known control panel, for creating such email/web 
servers:
https://gitlab.com/noumenia/aetolos

Roundcube is the default webmail client these days, I am not sure if its a 
"replacement" for gmail, but it is very efficient and works great on mobile 
devices:
https://roundcube.net/

Postfix+dovecot is the most common combination for running your own services, 
once combined they offer pretty much all the features most people need 
(SMTP/IMAP/POP3/etc):
http://www.postfix.org/
https://www.dovecot.org/

All of the above have been working for me for several decades without problems.

I use them with Linode's smallest offering ($5 for a 1GB server) as a hosting 
platform. But can't run ClamAV anti-virus because it requires at least 4GB of 
ram to load its default data set.




On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:10:56 + "Sinclair, John via mailop" 
 wrote:

> Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  
> Trying to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, 
> not coming up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting 
> my own email server for the family.  What’s the best of breed these days for 
> small/micro servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 
> 1TB total – looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access 
> for mobile, might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for 
> file storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free 
> gmail account as a client – looking to only have the family have to keep one 
> username (on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I 
> have the hardware and the bandwidth, it’s more of a what OS/email/webmail is 
> best of breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also 
> something that can have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam…
> 
>  
> 
> Thoughts?
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[mailop] Best email server for home use...

[Sinclair, John via mailop]

Staring at the end of the Google Suite (aka Workspace) free lunch days.  Trying 
to find a free solution that will still let me use a custom domain, not coming 
up with much, so thinking about going back to rolling and hosting my own email 
server for the family.  What's the best of breed these days for small/micro 
servers hosting five-ish email accounts, probably no more than 1TB total - 
looking for as-close-to-gmail-as-possible webmail, IMAP access for mobile, 
might even throw a nextcloud/freenas type of environment on for file 
storage/sharing.  Not interested in hosting my own IMAP and using a free gmail 
account as a client - looking to only have the family have to keep one username 
(on the custom domain) and basically cut out Google entirely.  I have the 
hardware and the bandwidth, it's more of a what OS/email/webmail is best of 
breed these days, not only for robustness/security, but also something that can 
have at least some attempt at blocking most of the spam...

Thoughts?
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