Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
Dnia 30.12.2023 o godz. 22:58:25 Simon Wilson via mailop pisze: > > The error message from Google is specifically: > > 421-4.7.28 Gmail has detected an unusual rate of unsolicited mail > originating from your SPF domain [howiesue.net 35]. To protect our > users from spam, mail sent from your domain has been temporarily rate > limited. For more information, go to > https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError to review our > Bulk Email Senders Guidelines > > Google search tells me this is NOT the message they use when the IP > address is the issue, but that they are having some unknown issue with the > domain. I have had exactly the same issue about a year(?) ago. All of a sudden, when I sent a message to - if I remember correctly - 7 recipients, of which 5 were on Gmail, I got this rejection message and the message, as well as subsequent ones, even if sent to only one recipient, were deferred for many hours. The issue lasted for maybe a week or two, then disappeared on its own. On average, I send maybe three-four messages to Gmail users per day IN TOTAL. Sometimes I don't send any message to Gmail at all even for two-three days, so the message about "unusual rate of unsolicited email" seems pretty ridiculous in this context. Similar to you, I have SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc. all in place, valid PTR, IP not on blocklists (except occasionally the entire ISP's netblock falls onto UCEPROTECT level 3), I have owned this domain for multiple years. I have also registered my server and domain on DNSWL. All this doesn't help in any way. I have also my domain registered in Postmaster Tools, but it doesn't show any data due to too small number of messages. I guess Google's mail system is just tuned towards big senders who send large amount of mail and totally doesn't "know" how to handle small senders which send only a handful of messages. If I were Google, I would just exempt the small domains (those that are too small to show up in Postmaster Tools) from most "sophisticated" checks that their system is probably doing, which may work well for large senders, but for small senders they just lead to absurd FPs like the ones described here. But for some unknown reason, Google doesn't want do do that. So for a small sender, it becomes more a random thing whether their mail will be accepted by Google or not. -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
Dnia 30.12.2023 o godz. 15:57:45 Richard Rognlie via mailop pisze: > I'm not seeing deferrals but some of my users are reporting that they're > not seeing emails coming from my play by email service. I've double > checked the logs and gmail is accepting the messages. So anything > happening to user mail is under the covers on the gmail side. It's very probable that Gmail files these messages to recipients' Spam folder. It happens very often (more often than not) with my messages as well. People often tell me they can't find my messages in Spam folder, but I think it's just their inability (lack of skill?) to do so, rather than the actual lack of message in the folder, because I have myself set up a few accounts on Gmail for test purposes, and always when I sent anything to one of these accounts and the message wasn't in inbox, I was always able to find it in Spam, the message never just "disappeared". -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
I'm not seeing deferrals but some of my users are reporting that they're not seeing emails coming from my play by email service. I've double checked the logs and gmail is accepting the messages. So anything happening to user mail is under the covers on the gmail side. Richard On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 12:48:15PM -0800, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote: > If that's what the problem is, then that can easily be set with the > following Postfix setting without the need for customization scripts: > > default_destination_recipient_limit = 1 > > Documentation for this setting is available at: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html*default_destination_recipient___;Iw!!KfGNmQmE!gvIVxaYqjH9_ABFrCwzypLPizUOZhlVehuk9XmLk243yU3ZyW4KTPIc15CCESK0u2XQ_ue4Mtd7T2l87mhBiQJk$ > > limit > > It may also be helpful to adjust the delivery rate, which can also > be set in Postfix's "default_destination_rate_delay" setting (which > defaults to 0 seconds): > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html*default_destination_rate_delay__;Iw!!KfGNmQmE!gvIVxaYqjH9_ABFrCwzypLPizUOZhlVehuk9XmLk243yU3ZyW4KTPIc15CCESK0u2XQ_ue4Mtd7T2l87HZZdTeA$ > > > (I don't know, off-hand, if other SMTP daemons have such settings.) > > > I have nearly the exact same setup and usage you do. I got the same > > deferral when sending an email to <20 friends, of which about 15 were on > > Gmail. Exactly the same results as you got. > > > > Fortunately, I found I could schedule one recipient at a time (using > > opensmtpd) and each message went through without issue (I even scripted the > > last 10 or so and they all went through in <2s). Seems they don´t like > > small shops to send to more than one or two Gmail recipients at a time). > > > > I suppose I should send a similar message to my friends, and include my > > Gmail account, then see if then I can send the report in. > > > > Sean > > > > Typed with my thumb. > > > > > On Dec 30, 2023, at 05:01, Simon Wilson via mailop > > > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks all. I'll answer comments here in one email. > > > I use a single mail host (mail.simonandkate.net) as MX for a range of > > > family domains on a fixed/business IP address through a high quality ISP > > > (not a variable IP, not in a dial-up block). I've had the same IP address > > > for about 7 years. It has a good reputation, sends < 1k emails per week, > > > and I monitor blocklists. Neither the domain nor the IP are on spamhaus > > > or other BLs. My parents' domain is howiesue.net, we've owned it for > > > about 10 years. Its inbound MX and outbound SMTP host is > > > mail.simonandkate.net, which has a valid PTR associated with the IP > > > address noted above (again, which has been in place for many years). > > > > > > howiesue.net has a valid hard-fail/reject SPF policy for the IP mail host > > > we use, we DKIM sign all outbound messages with a 1024-bit key, and valid > > > DMARC is setup. I have the domain in Google Postmaster Tools, but is too > > > low volume to generate any data. > > > > > > I'll have a look at DNSWL.org - thank you Randolf for that suggestion. > > > > > > The error message from Google is specifically: > > > > > > 421-4.7.28 Gmail has detected an unusual rate of unsolicited mail > > > originating from your SPF domain [howiesue.net 35]. To protect our > > > users from spam, mail sent from your domain has been temporarily rate > > > limited. For more information, go to > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError__;!!KfGNmQmE!gvIVxaYqjH9_ABFrCwzypLPizUOZhlVehuk9XmLk243yU3ZyW4KTPIc15CCESK0u2XQ_ue4Mtd7T2l87Q48xjp4$ > > > to review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines > > > > > > Google search tells me this is NOT the message they use when the IP > > > address is the issue, but that they are having some unknown issue with > > > the domain. > > > > > > I've checked my logs, and the domain is not compromised; he's sent a > > > total of 10 emails in the last week lol... This one that Gmail have > > > decided to block is the first to Gmail this week, but he regularly sends > > > to the people on that list. The email contains 15 Gmail recipients, and > > > is still deferred 12 hours later. > > > > > > I've tested and they accept email from me to individuals on his list from > > > the same mail host from my personal domain - reinforcing that we don't > > > have an IP rep issue. > > > > > > Randolf - I've reviewed the Google support doc on deferred email, and > > > there is nothing in there that I need to change - we use TLS (with valid > > > certs), have valid PTRs and other DNS records, have SPF (with hard fail / > > > reject requested for non-authorised IPs) and DKIM, DMARC, and are not > > > sending spam, it's personal email not bulk. There is no reason on that > > > page which I can see
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
Gmail recently changed how they calculate domain reputation within the last two months. Domains that didn't encounter issues before are now experiencing problems. I'm not entirely certain about the specific changes on Gmail's end, but I have observed these issues across multiple client domains. From: mailop on behalf of Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2023 12:48 PM To: mailop Subject: Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs Iron Wolf Technology EmployeeShield Warning: The sender @mailop@mailop.org might be a spam sender. Block as Spam<https://cloud.graph.us/feedback?msgId=PDY1OTA4MjBGLjM5MDYuMjRCOTFFNUBwb3N0bWFzdGVyLmludGVyLWNvcnBvcmF0ZS5jb20%2B=c2FtdWFsY2FybWFuLmNvbQ%3D%3D=XQT453x9IWffhC9Z%2BQ%2B5YAwe8%2BWdWk8H0XsnrhYAh3E%3D=XQT453x9IWfVoTCny4c0DF8PXqHJvxjQhuchgjxRyzWIdvIB4MZGMQ%3D%3D=spam> Not a Spam Sender<https://cloud.graph.us/feedback?msgId=PDY1OTA4MjBGLjM5MDYuMjRCOTFFNUBwb3N0bWFzdGVyLmludGVyLWNvcnBvcmF0ZS5jb20%2B=c2FtdWFsY2FybWFuLmNvbQ%3D%3D=XQT453x9IWffhC9Z%2BQ%2B5YAwe8%2BWdWk8H0XsnrhYAh3E%3D=XQT453x9IWfVoTCny4c0DF8PXqHJvxjQhuchgjxRyzWIdvIB4MZGMQ%3D%3D=notaspam> powered by Graphus® If that's what the problem is, then that can easily be set with the following Postfix setting without the need for customization scripts: default_destination_recipient_limit = 1 Documentation for this setting is available at: https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#default_destination_recipient_ limit It may also be helpful to adjust the delivery rate, which can also be set in Postfix's "default_destination_rate_delay" setting (which defaults to 0 seconds): https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#default_destination_rate_delay (I don't know, off-hand, if other SMTP daemons have such settings.) > I have nearly the exact same setup and usage you do. I got the same deferral when sending an email to <20 friends, of which about 15 were on Gmail. Exactly the same results as you got. > > Fortunately, I found I could schedule one recipient at a time (using opensmtpd) and each message went through without issue (I even scripted the last 10 or so and they all went through in <2s). Seems they don´t like small shops to send to more than one or two Gmail recipients at a time). > > I suppose I should send a similar message to my friends, and include my Gmail account, then see if then I can send the report in. > > Sean > > Typed with my thumb. > > > On Dec 30, 2023, at 05:01, Simon Wilson via mailop wrote: > > > > Thanks all. I'll answer comments here in one email. > > I use a single mail host (mail.simonandkate.net) as MX for a range of family domains on a fixed/business IP address through a high quality ISP (not a variable IP, not in a dial-up block). I've had the same IP address for about 7 years. It has a good reputation, sends < 1k emails per week, and I monitor blocklists. Neither the domain nor the IP are on spamhaus or other BLs. My parents' domain is howiesue.net, we've owned it for about 10 years. Its inbound MX and outbound SMTP host is mail.simonandkate.net, which has a valid PTR associated with the IP address noted above (again, which has been in place for many years). > > > > howiesue.net has a valid hard-fail/reject SPF policy for the IP mail host we use, we DKIM sign all outbound messages with a 1024-bit key, and valid DMARC is setup. I have the domain in Google Postmaster Tools, but is too low volume to generate any data. > > > > I'll have a look at DNSWL.org - thank you Randolf for that suggestion. > > > > The error message from Google is specifically: > > > > 421-4.7.28 Gmail has detected an unusual rate of unsolicited mail originating from your SPF domain [howiesue.net 35]. To protect our users from spam, mail sent from your domain has been temporarily rate limited. For more information, go to https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError to review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines > > > > Google search tells me this is NOT the message they use when the IP address is the issue, but that they are having some unknown issue with the domain. > > > > I've checked my logs, and the domain is not compromised; he's sent a total of 10 emails in the last week lol... This one that Gmail have decided to block is the first to Gmail this week, but he regularly sends to the people on that list. The email contains 15 Gmail recipients, and is still deferred 12 hours later. > > > > I've tested and they accept email from me to individuals on his list from the same mail host from my personal domain - reinforcing that we don't have an IP rep issue. > > > > Randolf - I've reviewed the Google support doc on deferred email, and there is nothing in there that I need to change - we use
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
I've added a gmail.com-specific transport, with a recipient_limit set to 2 (so it does not become per-recipient instead of per-domain), a concurrency limit of 1 and a 10s rate delay. For the amount of email we send this should not be problematic. I'll see if we can then build up a better rep for his domain. Some good comments here from everyone - thanks all. Simon On Sunday, December 31, 2023 07:30 AEST, Michael Orlitzky via mailop wrote: On Sat, 2023-12-30 at 12:48 -0800, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote: > If that's what the problem is, then that can easily be set with the > following Postfix setting without the need for customization scripts: > > default_destination_recipient_limit = 1 > > It may also be helpful to adjust the delivery rate, which can also > be set in Postfix's "default_destination_rate_delay" setting This will work, but you probably don't want to make your entire MTA inefficient just to appease Google. Those two parameters have per- transport counterparts, * _destination_concurrency_limit * _destination_rate_delay where is the name of your transport. So, for example, you could create a transport called "slow", and then set * slow_destination_concurrency_limit = 1 * slow_destination_rate_delay = 2s after which all you have to do is configure postfix to send to gmail via the "slow" transport instead of the default one. Now gmail is slow, but nobody else suffers. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop -- Simon Wilson M: 0400 121 116 ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
On Sat, 2023-12-30 at 12:48 -0800, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote: > If that's what the problem is, then that can easily be set with the > following Postfix setting without the need for customization scripts: > > default_destination_recipient_limit = 1 > > It may also be helpful to adjust the delivery rate, which can also > be set in Postfix's "default_destination_rate_delay" setting This will work, but you probably don't want to make your entire MTA inefficient just to appease Google. Those two parameters have per- transport counterparts, * _destination_concurrency_limit * _destination_rate_delay where is the name of your transport. So, for example, you could create a transport called "slow", and then set * slow_destination_concurrency_limit = 1 * slow_destination_rate_delay = 2s after which all you have to do is configure postfix to send to gmail via the "slow" transport instead of the default one. Now gmail is slow, but nobody else suffers. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
If that's what the problem is, then that can easily be set with the following Postfix setting without the need for customization scripts: default_destination_recipient_limit = 1 Documentation for this setting is available at: https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#default_destination_recipient_ limit It may also be helpful to adjust the delivery rate, which can also be set in Postfix's "default_destination_rate_delay" setting (which defaults to 0 seconds): https://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#default_destination_rate_delay (I don't know, off-hand, if other SMTP daemons have such settings.) > I have nearly the exact same setup and usage you do. I got the same deferral > when sending an email to <20 friends, of which about 15 were on Gmail. > Exactly the same results as you got. > > Fortunately, I found I could schedule one recipient at a time (using > opensmtpd) and each message went through without issue (I even scripted the > last 10 or so and they all went through in <2s). Seems they don´t like small > shops to send to more than one or two Gmail recipients at a time). > > I suppose I should send a similar message to my friends, and include my Gmail > account, then see if then I can send the report in. > > Sean > > Typed with my thumb. > > > On Dec 30, 2023, at 05:01, Simon Wilson via mailop > > wrote: > > > > Thanks all. I'll answer comments here in one email. > > I use a single mail host (mail.simonandkate.net) as MX for a range of > > family domains on a fixed/business IP address through a high quality ISP > > (not a variable IP, not in a dial-up block). I've had the same IP address > > for about 7 years. It has a good reputation, sends < 1k emails per week, > > and I monitor blocklists. Neither the domain nor the IP are on spamhaus or > > other BLs. My parents' domain is howiesue.net, we've owned it for about 10 > > years. Its inbound MX and outbound SMTP host is mail.simonandkate.net, > > which has a valid PTR associated with the IP address noted above (again, > > which has been in place for many years). > > > > howiesue.net has a valid hard-fail/reject SPF policy for the IP mail host > > we use, we DKIM sign all outbound messages with a 1024-bit key, and valid > > DMARC is setup. I have the domain in Google Postmaster Tools, but is too > > low volume to generate any data. > > > > I'll have a look at DNSWL.org - thank you Randolf for that suggestion. > > > > The error message from Google is specifically: > > > > 421-4.7.28 Gmail has detected an unusual rate of unsolicited mail > > originating from your SPF domain [howiesue.net 35]. To protect our > > users from spam, mail sent from your domain has been temporarily rate > > limited. For more information, go to > > https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError to review our > > Bulk Email Senders Guidelines > > > > Google search tells me this is NOT the message they use when the IP address > > is the issue, but that they are having some unknown issue with the domain. > > > > I've checked my logs, and the domain is not compromised; he's sent a total > > of 10 emails in the last week lol... This one that Gmail have decided to > > block is the first to Gmail this week, but he regularly sends to the people > > on that list. The email contains 15 Gmail recipients, and is still deferred > > 12 hours later. > > > > I've tested and they accept email from me to individuals on his list from > > the same mail host from my personal domain - reinforcing that we don't have > > an IP rep issue. > > > > Randolf - I've reviewed the Google support doc on deferred email, and there > > is nothing in there that I need to change - we use TLS (with valid certs), > > have valid PTRs and other DNS records, have SPF (with hard fail / reject > > requested for non-authorised IPs) and DKIM, DMARC, and are not sending > > spam, it's personal email not bulk. There is no reason on that page which I > > can see which gives them reason to defer us. > > > > When I follow their troubleshooter, it drops me to the contact form Randolf > > mentions, but I cannot achieve any progress because you *have* to include > > "To help us investigate a message that was rejected or blocked, please > > provide the full headers from a recent message (less than 12 days old)". > > That header has to be from the RECEIVED end, i.e. Gmail - which I cannot do > > because to do that I'd have to actually be able to get an email through > > from the domain. I tried sending log details of the deferral with info on > > our compliant setup, and the "ticket" is auto-closed because it doesn't > > include the headers they "need". > > > > I think I'm just going to need to tell him to set up a different way to > > contact his friends instead of this list... > > > > If I've missed something, I'd love to hear it. > > > > Simon > > > > > >> On Saturday,
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
I have nearly the exact same setup and usage you do. I got the same deferral when sending an email to <20 friends, of which about 15 were on Gmail. Exactly the same results as you got. Fortunately, I found I could schedule one recipient at a time (using opensmtpd) and each message went through without issue (I even scripted the last 10 or so and they all went through in <2s). Seems they don’t like small shops to send to more than one or two Gmail recipients at a time). I suppose I should send a similar message to my friends, and include my Gmail account, then see if then I can send the report in. Sean Typed with my thumb. > On Dec 30, 2023, at 05:01, Simon Wilson via mailop wrote: > > Thanks all. I'll answer comments here in one email. > I use a single mail host (mail.simonandkate.net) as MX for a range of family > domains on a fixed/business IP address through a high quality ISP (not a > variable IP, not in a dial-up block). I've had the same IP address for about > 7 years. It has a good reputation, sends < 1k emails per week, and I monitor > blocklists. Neither the domain nor the IP are on spamhaus or other BLs. My > parents' domain is howiesue.net, we've owned it for about 10 years. Its > inbound MX and outbound SMTP host is mail.simonandkate.net, which has a valid > PTR associated with the IP address noted above (again, which has been in > place for many years). > > howiesue.net has a valid hard-fail/reject SPF policy for the IP mail host we > use, we DKIM sign all outbound messages with a 1024-bit key, and valid DMARC > is setup. I have the domain in Google Postmaster Tools, but is too low volume > to generate any data. > > I'll have a look at DNSWL.org - thank you Randolf for that suggestion. > > The error message from Google is specifically: > > 421-4.7.28 Gmail has detected an unusual rate of unsolicited mail originating > from your SPF domain [howiesue.net 35]. To protect our users from spam, > mail sent from your domain has been temporarily rate limited. For more > information, go to > https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError to review our > Bulk Email Senders Guidelines > > Google search tells me this is NOT the message they use when the IP address > is the issue, but that they are having some unknown issue with the domain. > > I've checked my logs, and the domain is not compromised; he's sent a total of > 10 emails in the last week lol... This one that Gmail have decided to block > is the first to Gmail this week, but he regularly sends to the people on that > list. The email contains 15 Gmail recipients, and is still deferred 12 hours > later. > > I've tested and they accept email from me to individuals on his list from the > same mail host from my personal domain - reinforcing that we don't have an IP > rep issue. > > Randolf - I've reviewed the Google support doc on deferred email, and there > is nothing in there that I need to change - we use TLS (with valid certs), > have valid PTRs and other DNS records, have SPF (with hard fail / reject > requested for non-authorised IPs) and DKIM, DMARC, and are not sending spam, > it's personal email not bulk. There is no reason on that page which I can see > which gives them reason to defer us. > > When I follow their troubleshooter, it drops me to the contact form Randolf > mentions, but I cannot achieve any progress because you *have* to include "To > help us investigate a message that was rejected or blocked, please provide > the full headers from a recent message (less than 12 days old)". That header > has to be from the RECEIVED end, i.e. Gmail - which I cannot do because to do > that I'd have to actually be able to get an email through from the domain. I > tried sending log details of the deferral with info on our compliant setup, > and the "ticket" is auto-closed because it doesn't include the headers they > "need". > > I think I'm just going to need to tell him to set up a different way to > contact his friends instead of this list... > > If I've missed something, I'd love to hear it. > > Simon > > >> On Saturday, December 30, 2023 20:28 AEST, Eduardo Díaz Comellas via mailop >> wrote: >> >> > I've seen problems like this because of ISP listing large net locks as > "dialup" and not supposed to send email directly. > > Check spamhaus' PBL: > > https://www.spamhaus.org/pbl/ > > Best regards > > El 30 de diciembre de 2023 7:40:59 CET, Simon Wilson via mailop > escribió: >> I know, I'm not alone in this... :( >> >> I like to think that it's still feasible to run one's own email. I have for >> many years, and currently manage about a dozen email domains for family and >> friends. Most of the time all good. >> >> Then today my dad says to me "Why am I getting these bounce messages?" >> >> I check, and Gmail are deferring an email he sends every week to a group of >> friends, 20 all up, 15 of them on Gmail, saying his SPF domain is
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
Thanks all. I'll answer comments here in one email. I use a single mail host (mail.simonandkate.net) as MX for a range of family domains on a fixed/business IP address through a high quality ISP (not a variable IP, not in a dial-up block). I've had the same IP address for about 7 years. It has a good reputation, sends < 1k emails per week, and I monitor blocklists. Neither the domain nor the IP are on spamhaus or other BLs. My parents' domain is howiesue.net, we've owned it for about 10 years. Its inbound MX and outbound SMTP host is mail.simonandkate.net, which has a valid PTR associated with the IP address noted above (again, which has been in place for many years). howiesue.net has a valid hard-fail/reject SPF policy for the IP mail host we use, we DKIM sign all outbound messages with a 1024-bit key, and valid DMARC is setup. I have the domain in Google Postmaster Tools, but is too low volume to generate any data. I'll have a look at DNSWL.org - thank you Randolf for that suggestion. The error message from Google is specifically: 421-4.7.28 Gmail has detected an unusual rate of unsolicited mail originating from your SPF domain [howiesue.net 35]. To protect our users from spam, mail sent from your domain has been temporarily rate limited. For more information, go to https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedRateLimitError to review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines Google search tells me this is NOT the message they use when the IP address is the issue, but that they are having some unknown issue with the domain. I've checked my logs, and the domain is not compromised; he's sent a total of 10 emails in the last week lol... This one that Gmail have decided to block is the first to Gmail this week, but he regularly sends to the people on that list. The email contains 15 Gmail recipients, and is still deferred 12 hours later. I've tested and they accept email from me to individuals on his list from the same mail host from my personal domain - reinforcing that we don't have an IP rep issue. Randolf - I've reviewed the Google support doc on deferred email, and there is nothing in there that I need to change - we use TLS (with valid certs), have valid PTRs and other DNS records, have SPF (with hard fail / reject requested for non-authorised IPs) and DKIM, DMARC, and are not sending spam, it's personal email not bulk. There is no reason on that page which I can see which gives them reason to defer us. When I follow their troubleshooter, it drops me to the contact form Randolf mentions, but I cannot achieve any progress because you *have* to include "To help us investigate a message that was rejected or blocked, please provide the full headers from a recent message (less than 12 days old)". That header has to be from the RECEIVED end, i.e. Gmail - which I cannot do because to do that I'd have to actually be able to get an email through from the domain. I tried sending log details of the deferral with info on our compliant setup, and the "ticket" is auto-closed because it doesn't include the headers they "need". I think I'm just going to need to tell him to set up a different way to contact his friends instead of this list... If I've missed something, I'd love to hear it. Simon On Saturday, December 30, 2023 20:28 AEST, Eduardo Díaz Comellas via mailop wrote: I've seen problems like this because of ISP listing large net locks as "dialup" and not supposed to send email directly. Check spamhaus' PBL: https://www.spamhaus.org/pbl/ Best regards El 30 de diciembre de 2023 7:40:59 CET, Simon Wilson via mailop escribió:I know, I'm not alone in this... :( I like to think that it's still feasible to run one's own email. I have for many years, and currently manage about a dozen email domains for family and friends. Most of the time all good. Then today my dad says to me "Why am I getting these bounce messages?" I check, and Gmail are deferring an email he sends every week to a group of friends, 20 all up, 15 of them on Gmail, saying his SPF domain is a source of unsolicited email (421-4.7.28). Outlook and Hotmail accept OK. This domain is old, not compromised, has SPF, DKIM (1024bit), DMARC, all valid. We send using TLS. We have correct PTR. His emails go out fully signed and pass checks. We don't send commercial emails, and that domain name is low volume and all emails individually written and sent through a webmail client, none of it is automated. Are we wasting time even trying any more? You can't even submit a request to them for help, because they ignore it unless you attach valid and current mis-classified headers from within gmail. Umm.. how can I do that when they're not accepting the email? Simon WilsonM: 0400 121 116 -- Simon Wilson M: 0400 121 116 ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
I've seen problems like this because of ISP listing large net locks as "dialup" and not supposed to send email directly. Check spamhaus' PBL: https://www.spamhaus.org/pbl/ Best regards El 30 de diciembre de 2023 7:40:59 CET, Simon Wilson via mailop escribió: >I know, I'm not alone in this... :( > >I like to think that it's still feasible to run one's own email. I have for >many years, and currently manage about a dozen email domains for family and >friends. Most of the time all good. > >Then today my dad says to me "Why am I getting these bounce messages?" > >I check, and Gmail are deferring an email he sends every week to a group of >friends, 20 all up, 15 of them on Gmail, saying his SPF domain is a source of >unsolicited email (421-4.7.28). Outlook and Hotmail accept OK. > >This domain is old, not compromised, has SPF, DKIM (1024bit), DMARC, all >valid. We send using TLS. We have correct PTR. His emails go out fully signed >and pass checks. We don't send commercial emails, and that domain name is low >volume and all emails individually written and sent through a webmail client, >none of it is automated. > >Are we wasting time even trying any more? > >You can't even submit a request to them for help, because they ignore it >unless you attach valid and current mis-classified headers from within gmail. >Umm.. how can I do that when they're not accepting the email? > >Simon Wilson >M: 0400 121 116___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
It's definitely worth it to run your own eMail system (in my
opinion). I think people should be able to do this if they want to,
although one of the challenges that sometimes arises is which IP
netblocks their eMail servers are in.
If your server is operated at home, you may be in a dial-up
netblock, which many providers will block outright or count in
weighting as being potentially problematic. In such cases your
internet provider may be able to provide you with a different IP
address that's in a non-dial-up netblock, or, assuming this is the
problem, you may need to consider other options (e.g., routing
through a different IP via an encrypted tunnel/private-VPN, or using
delegating to another host to act as a relay {we used to provide this
for a few of our clients, until they decided to switch over to us}).
One thing that might be helpful to you is getting yourself listed in
the DNSWL:
DNS whitelist (DNSWL)
https://www.dnswl.org/
If you haven't already, you may want to consider getting your IP
address(es) registered through their self-managment interface. (I
don't know if this will solve your problem with Google's systems, but
hopefully it will at least prevent future issues with other systems.)
Google also has a document that might be helpful (I don't know
whether you've seen this one yet):
Google Support :: How to find out why email sender is deferred
https://support.google.com/mail/thread/15238559/how-to-find-out-why-email-sender-is-deferred?hl=en
One of the last links on that page includes "bulk_send_new" which
leads to the following form that promises to help by escalating the
problem you described:
Sender Contact Form :: Bulk Sender Escalation
https://support.google.com/mail/contact/gmail_bulk_sender_escalation
The second part of that form provides one HTML textarea to submit a
summary of the problem, and another for a detailed explanation.
I hope this will be at least somewhat helpful to you in getting your
eMail issue sorted.
> I know, I'm not alone in this... :(
>
> I like to think that it's still feasible to run one's own email. I have for
> many years, and currently manage about a dozen email domains for family and
> friends. Most of the time all good.
>
> Then today my dad says to me "Why am I getting these bounce messages?"
>
> I check, and Gmail are deferring an email he sends every week to a group of
> friends, 20 all up, 15 of them on Gmail, saying his SPF domain is a source of
> unsolicited email (421-4.7.28). Outlook and Hotmail accept OK.
>
> This domain is old, not compromised, has SPF, DKIM (1024bit), DMARC, all
> valid. We send using TLS. We have correct PTR. His emails go out fully signed
> and pass checks. We don't send commercial emails, and that domain name is low
> volume and all emails individually written and sent through a webmail client,
> none of it is automated.
>
> Are we wasting time even trying any more?
>
> You can't even submit a request to them for help, because they ignore it
> unless you attach valid and current mis-classified headers from within gmail.
> Umm.. how can I do that when they're not accepting the email?
>
> Simon Wilson
> M: 0400 121 116
--
Postmaster - postmas...@inter-corporate.com
Randolf Richardson, CNA - rand...@inter-corporate.com
Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
https://www.inter-corporate.com/
___
mailop mailing list
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https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
On Sat, Dec 30, 2023 at 9:52 AM Simon Wilson via mailop wrote: > I know, I'm not alone in this... :( > > I like to think that it's still feasible to run one's own email. I have > for many years, and currently manage about a dozen email domains for family > and friends. Most of the time all good. > > Then today my dad says to me "Why am I getting these bounce messages?" > > I check, and Gmail are deferring an email he sends every week to a group > of friends, 20 all up, 15 of them on Gmail, saying his SPF domain is a > source of unsolicited email (421-4.7.28). Outlook and Hotmail accept OK. > > This domain is old, not compromised, has SPF, DKIM (1024bit), DMARC, all > valid. We send using TLS. We have correct PTR. His emails go out fully > signed and pass checks. We don't send commercial emails, and that domain > name is low volume and all emails individually written and sent through a > webmail client, none of it is automated. > > Are we wasting time even trying any more? > > You can't even submit a request to them for help, because they ignore it > unless you attach valid and current mis-classified headers from within > gmail. Umm.. how can I do that when they're not accepting the email? > > Simon Wilson > M: 0400 121 116 > I am a victim of these Gmail theatrics as well. I manage a server and it runs two mail domains - my.co.ke and nog.ke. Everything is all setup like yours. And on this server we have Mailman3 lists, which are low volume really, because Whatsapp/Telegram/Signal all happened. Just suddenly Gmail refused to accept emails from this server, saying that: ``` 2023-12-25 09:29:51.230 1rHeTF-000WIF-Ib ** odhiax...@gmail.com R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp_DK H=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com [74.125.206.27] I=[62.12.117.39] X=TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__ECDSA_SECP256R1_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256 CV=yes DN="CN=mx.google.com": SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: 550-5.7.1 [62.12.117.39] The IP you're using to send mail is not authorized to\n550-5.7.1 send email directly to our servers. Please use the SMTP relay at your\n550-5.7.1 service provider instead. For more information, go to\n550 5.7.1 https://support.google.com/mail/?p=NotAuthorizedError s2-20020adff80200b003367a4f666esi4389351wrp.527 - gsmtp DT=1.571s ``` Of course this results into a bounce for the sender. I am not sure what Gmail wants us to do! And it's only Gmail. Outlook.com accepts mail from this server. The domains I manage are all verified in Postmaster Tools yet the Dashboard has no data . BTW, does someone know how to re-verify a domain? The steps given by Gmail takes one round and round until you give up. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254 7 3200 0004/+254 7 2274 3223 "Oh, the cruft.", egrep -v '^$|^.*#' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :-) [How to ask smart questions: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html] ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] Gmail now deferring email which meets their published reqs
I know, I'm not alone in this... :( I like to think that it's still feasible to run one's own email. I have for many years, and currently manage about a dozen email domains for family and friends. Most of the time all good. Then today my dad says to me "Why am I getting these bounce messages?" I check, and Gmail are deferring an email he sends every week to a group of friends, 20 all up, 15 of them on Gmail, saying his SPF domain is a source of unsolicited email (421-4.7.28). Outlook and Hotmail accept OK. This domain is old, not compromised, has SPF, DKIM (1024bit), DMARC, all valid. We send using TLS. We have correct PTR. His emails go out fully signed and pass checks. We don't send commercial emails, and that domain name is low volume and all emails individually written and sent through a webmail client, none of it is automated. Are we wasting time even trying any more? You can't even submit a request to them for help, because they ignore it unless you attach valid and current mis-classified headers from within gmail. Umm.. how can I do that when they're not accepting the email? Simon Wilson M: 0400 121 116___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
