Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
Thanks a lot for your investigation :) On 02.05.21 23:51, Arne Jensen wrote: Den 01-05-2021 kl. 22:44 skrev Pierre Ozoux via mailop: We are a small provider based in France ( https://indiehosters.net ) and we have all in place (DMARC, DKIM, PTR, SNDS, JMRP, and a really strict SPF) A really strict SPF sounds nice, ... but where exactly? You're actually using the weakest possible SPF: Thanks, I though the include did include the -all :/ and yes, I'm not a seasonned email admin yet :) indiehosters.net. 86400 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:mail.indie.host -all" indie.host. 86400 IN TXT "v=spf1 include:mail.indie.host -all" mail.indie.host. 10800 IN TXT "v=spf1 ip4:195.201.199.169 -all" indie.host and indiehosters.net's SPF records are then cached in DNS for 86400 seconds (24 hours). Should you need to change, you just change mail.indie.host, which you are only asking others to cache for 10800 seconds (3 hours). However, again, since you've said for more than a year, I'd simply just make the mail.indie.host TXT record 86400 as well. I followed your recommendation, it was actually the default of my previous provider I think. I also Identified that we were marked as spam 2 times because of notification of chat software: https://github.com/RocketChat/feature-requests/issues/459 I also noticed this in discourse: https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-setting-reply-to-value-in-from-header-field-when-using-reply-by-email-feature/103303 (Not sure Microsoft trusts me that I send emails as if I was gmail... pretty sure it is a big redflag in the eyes of the algo!) Still Investigating, I'll report here if I find some success :) But thanks again for your thorough investigation :) Have a nice evening! ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
Den 01-05-2021 kl. 22:44 skrev Pierre Ozoux via mailop:
> We are a small provider based in France ( https://indiehosters.net )
> and we have all in place (DMARC, DKIM, PTR, SNDS, JMRP, and a really
> strict SPF)
A really strict SPF sounds nice, ... but where exactly?
You're actually using the weakest possible SPF:
> $ dig +noall +answer TXT indiehosters.net
> indiehosters.net. 1799 IN TXT "v=spf1
> include:mail.indie.host"
If I'm spoofing "t...@indiehosters.net" from one of my mail servers, it
look in the include, but then fall back to the SPF's default, and most
weakest (neutral, "?all").
Add "-all" in the end?
> $ dig +noall +answer TXT indie.host
> indie.host. 10800 IN TXT "v=spf1
> include:mail.indie.host"
If I'm spoofing "t...@indie.host" from one of my mail servers, it look
in the include, but then fall back to the SPF's default, and most
weakest (neutral, "?all").
Add "-all" in the end?
> $ dig +noall +answer TXT mail.indie.host
> mail.indie.host. 1800 IN TXT "v=spf1
> ip4:195.201.199.169 a -all"
This one is strict, but the two previous SPF that includes this one
won't include the "-all" of it.
This one does however also show signs of lack of expertise with the SPF
system. Why the "a"?
> $ dig +noall +answer A mail.indie.host
> mail.indie.host. 1785 IN A 195.201.199.169
Since that "a" includes the A record of the host, and that A is already
included with ip4:195.201.199.169, remove that *duplicating* "a"
mechanism from the "mail.indie.host" TXT.
> $ dig +noall +answer TXT ozoux.net
> ozoux.net. 10800 IN TXT "v=spf1
> include:_mailcust.gandi.net ?all"
Not even the domain you send from here, ... holds a strict SPF, at all.
So out of curiosity, what is your definition of "a really strict SPF"? :)
I would however also suggest trying to raise your TTL.
A 1800('ish) TTL for several of the TXT's above, as well as the A
record, ... considering you say you've had the IP address for more than
a year?
That sounds silly with a so little TTL for such critical (and static)
infrastructure.
In the very few times I've had to change IP addresses, due to things
happening at an hosting provider, I've always seen like a minimum of 1
week, but typically in the area of at least 2-3 weeks to migrate over.
If you insist on doing the simplicity, by just changing
"mail.indie.host" every time you have changes, and include that from
other records, I suggest something like:
> indiehosters.net. 86400 IN TXT "v=spf1
> include:mail.indie.host -all"
>
> indie.host. 86400 IN TXT "v=spf1
> include:mail.indie.host -all"
>
> mail.indie.host. 10800 IN TXT "v=spf1
> ip4:195.201.199.169 -all"
indie.host and indiehosters.net's SPF records are then cached in DNS for
86400 seconds (24 hours).
Should you need to change, you just change mail.indie.host, which you
are only asking others to cache for 10800 seconds (3 hours).
However, again, since you've said for more than a year, I'd simply just
make the mail.indie.host TXT record 86400 as well.
>
> I think we tried everything, maybe not yet the outbound rate limiting.
> It is my next step. Do you think it will help?
Maybe, but it depends on various different things, - your traffic levels
and how much "bad" there is of it.
Typically, rate limiting are added to prevent something negative from
happening, but if nothing negative is happening from your network
towards Outlook in this case, then rate limiting most likely won't do
anything for this particular case.
> We also use hetzner, I guess their IP range doesn't have a good
> reputation, but we have this IP since more than a year now. Do you
> have a recommendation for a provider that would have a better reputation?
No, unfortunately not. I wouldn't use Hetzner any mission critical (...
outbound) email infrastructure, at all. Same goes on for several other
hosting providers though.
--
Med venlig hilsen / Kind regards,
Arne Jensen
___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
On Sat, 1 May 2021 16:22:13 -0500, Scott Mutter via mailop wrote: >The fact that filling out their support ticket does nothing except generate >canned responses and that you have to come here to Mailops to get any >movement on a blocked IP address or blocked server - you would think that >that would tell Microsoft something about how ineffective their support >ticket system is. (But as others have said, they don't really care). There are people there who care, deeply (I was once one of them). Alack, they are not the persons who make significant decisions or can cause things to happen. mdr -- Ad finem pugnabo. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
As far as I can tell, there's nothing you can do. You can try a non-Hetzner IP, sure, but plenty of people on here (like me!) have a dedicated IP in their own IP space for sending mail and still go straight to Hotmail-Junk. Rate limiting might help, but if you send too *few* mails Microsoft's way you'll definitely go straight to Hotmail-Junk. I think the only real option is to pay Validity money and get Return Path certification, but I haven't gotten far enough to actually pulling the trigger there to see if it solves the problem, and certainly for small senders it might entirely not. Maybe you can pay someone large to relay your SMTP outbound when its headed to Microsoft (with associated configuration requirements). Matt On 5/1/21 16:44, Pierre Ozoux via mailop wrote: Hi! (I'm new here, so if I'm doing mistakes, do not hesitate to tell me with MP, or public, I'd like to respect the community) We are a small provider based in France ( https://indiehosters.net ) and we have all in place (DMARC, DKIM, PTR, SNDS, JMRP, and a really strict SPF) Since a year, we are marked as spam in Microsoft and it is painful. We are offering a free software alternative as a service for people that don't know much about tech, and before we were offering a Nextcloud + email + domain to people, but since a year we stopped offering email. Just because of that, we don't feel comfortable. (and yesterday a customer canceled because of that issue :/ ) I think we tried everything, maybe not yet the outbound rate limiting. It is my next step. Do you think it will help? We also use hetzner, I guess their IP range doesn't have a good reputation, but we have this IP since more than a year now. Do you have a recommendation for a provider that would have a better reputation? I'm also planning on asking all my friends with outlook account to mark my emails as non spam, maybe it will help the algorithm? When I read the answer of microsoft support, I feel like in the process of Kafka, I'm being accused of wrong doing, and I don't know why.. If the big tech want to push AI, I think they have to polish the user experience right now, but currently, it is sending the really wrong signal I'd say.. Here is the snippet: 8<- We have reviewed your IP(s) (195.201.199.169) and determined that messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen® Filter. Email filtering is based on many factors, but primarily it's due to mail content and recipient interaction with that mail. Because of the proprietary nature of SmartScreen® and because SmartScreen® Filter technology is always adapting and learning more about what is and isn't unwanted mail, it is not possible for us to offer specific advice about improving your mail content. However, in general SmartScreen® Filter evaluates specific words or characteristics from each e-mail message and weights them, based on their likelihood to indicate that a message is unwanted or legitimate mail. Unfortunately, after reviewing the information you provided and in compliance with our mail policies, we are unable to offer immediate mitigation for your deliverability issue. However, we have some specific recommendations for you to consider that can help you to improve deliverability over time. -->8-- If it can help identify the issue here is one header of an email marked as spam: 8<- Received: from SN1NAM01HT088.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10d6:1:13::14) by SC1PR80MB5840.lamprd80.prod.outlook.com with HTTPS via SC1PR80CA0111.LAMPRD80.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 21:14:08 + Received: from SN1NAM01FT012.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.64.54) by SN1NAM01HT088.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.64.185) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.21; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:14:02 + Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 195.201.199.169) smtp.mailfrom=indie.host; outlook.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=indie.host;outlook.com; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=indie.host;compauth=pass reason=109 Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of indie.host designates 195.201.199.169 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=195.201.199.169; helo=mail.indie.host; Received: from mail.indie.host (195.201.199.169) by SN1NAM01FT012.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.64.76) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.21 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:14:01 + X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:3B9969F29DB8F8B497A9C9FFAFC66A0AE4C6537955A953653217568EFEB280B5;UpperCasedChecksum:57C883C4E156BE8B2C54F046D8E4C851D632AA891995B9759433B004C2A0F949;SizeAsReceived:1078;Count:11 Received: from authenticated-user (mail.indie.host
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
The fact that filling out their support ticket does nothing except generate canned responses and that you have to come here to Mailops to get any movement on a blocked IP address or blocked server - you would think that that would tell Microsoft something about how ineffective their support ticket system is. (But as others have said, they don't really care). On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 12:28 PM André Peters via mailop wrote: > I can only agree. Using Outlook means check your junk for important mail > and find a lot of trash in your inbox. > > We have moved countless new customers away from Outlook because of this > issue. I don't know why they don't care. Really. > > > > Am 01.05.2021 um 18:55 schrieb Matt Corallo via mailop < > mailop@mailop.org>: > > > > If you're a small-scale sender, this is just the way it goes with > Outlook.com - SNDS doesn't do anything except provide you %s, and because > the number of emails from small-scale senders is so low (and the > "customers" here don't even pay for the service), Microsoft isn't > incentivized to fix the issue. The usual "if you're using > outlook.com/hotmail and don't check your junk folder regularly, you're > missing messages" rule applies. > > > > If you're in the very-small-scale sender club SNDS doesn't even show you > % mails that went to spam, and exists purely to inform you that your IPs > "have normal status" despite all the mail from them going direct to Junk > (and all the headers, like you mentioned, showing scores of > PCL=2/SCL=0/BCL=0). > > > > Worse, they haven't correctly resolved SPF/DKIM DNS records for many > months (despite sending and receiving DNS queries for the associated > records)[1], spuriously failing messages that others accept without issue. > > > > [1] > https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook/received-spf-temperror-protection-outlook-com-error-in/m-p/1801696 > > > > Matt > > > >> On 4/29/21 20:26, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote: > >> We're having issues sending order confirmations from our event > ticketing system to users of Microsoft's consumer email services (Outlook, > Hotmail, Live, MSN). The order confirmations are being sent to Junk. Some > details are below this paragraph. I've communicated with Microsoft's > "Outlook.com Deliverability Support Team" and while they were very > responsive, unfortunately we hit a roadblock. They wanted us to enroll in > JMRP and SNDS. Microsoft's JMRP system requires enrollment in SNDS. > However, to enroll in SNDS requires verifying ownership of the sending > IP's. We don't own them. Our event ticketing system vendor who does hasn't > been helpful. We own the sending domain. > >> * SPF, DKIM, DMARC are all good and show as "pass" in the email > headers of messages sent to junk. > >> * Sending IP's have the correct PTR records. > >> * Looking at the headers of a message sent to Junk, I see that our PCL > = 2, SCL = 0 and BCL = 0. > >> * MS confirmed our sending IP's and domain aren't the issue: "We were > unable to identify anything on our side that > >>would prevent your mail from reaching Outlook.com customers." > >> * MS did however determine that "messages are being filtered (i.e. > sent to the Junk folder) based on the > >>recommendations of the SmartScreen Filter." > >> * Email messages from the same sending domain and IP's, using the same > address, which are other than order > >>confirmations (reports, for example) deliver to my Outlook.com email > address' Inbox without issue. > >> * The offending emails have > >> o No attachments > >> o One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from > >> o No links > >> o No card info > >> o A name and email address matching the recipient > >> * All emails are sent from a valid address and all NDRs/bounces are > resolved. > >> * No marketing or bulk mail is sent from the domain. > >> * The same emails sent to Google, AOL, Yahoo deliver without issue. > >> I'm out of ideas here and would welcome any help on or off list. Our > concern is if we can’t deliver an order confirmation to our customers who > use these email services, we’ll also have issues delivering their > electronic tickets. > >> Robert Schoneman | Director of IT > >> *Blumenthal Performing Arts* > >> ___ > >> mailop mailing list > >> mailop@mailop.org > >> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > > ___ > > mailop mailing list > > mailop@mailop.org > > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
Hi! (I'm new here, so if I'm doing mistakes, do not hesitate to tell me with MP, or public, I'd like to respect the community) We are a small provider based in France ( https://indiehosters.net ) and we have all in place (DMARC, DKIM, PTR, SNDS, JMRP, and a really strict SPF) Since a year, we are marked as spam in Microsoft and it is painful. We are offering a free software alternative as a service for people that don't know much about tech, and before we were offering a Nextcloud + email + domain to people, but since a year we stopped offering email. Just because of that, we don't feel comfortable. (and yesterday a customer canceled because of that issue :/ ) I think we tried everything, maybe not yet the outbound rate limiting. It is my next step. Do you think it will help? We also use hetzner, I guess their IP range doesn't have a good reputation, but we have this IP since more than a year now. Do you have a recommendation for a provider that would have a better reputation? I'm also planning on asking all my friends with outlook account to mark my emails as non spam, maybe it will help the algorithm? When I read the answer of microsoft support, I feel like in the process of Kafka, I'm being accused of wrong doing, and I don't know why.. If the big tech want to push AI, I think they have to polish the user experience right now, but currently, it is sending the really wrong signal I'd say.. Here is the snippet: 8<- We have reviewed your IP(s) (195.201.199.169) and determined that messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen® Filter. Email filtering is based on many factors, but primarily it's due to mail content and recipient interaction with that mail. Because of the proprietary nature of SmartScreen® and because SmartScreen® Filter technology is always adapting and learning more about what is and isn't unwanted mail, it is not possible for us to offer specific advice about improving your mail content. However, in general SmartScreen® Filter evaluates specific words or characteristics from each e-mail message and weights them, based on their likelihood to indicate that a message is unwanted or legitimate mail. Unfortunately, after reviewing the information you provided and in compliance with our mail policies, we are unable to offer immediate mitigation for your deliverability issue. However, we have some specific recommendations for you to consider that can help you to improve deliverability over time. -->8-- If it can help identify the issue here is one header of an email marked as spam: 8<- Received: from SN1NAM01HT088.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10d6:1:13::14) by SC1PR80MB5840.lamprd80.prod.outlook.com with HTTPS via SC1PR80CA0111.LAMPRD80.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 21:14:08 + Received: from SN1NAM01FT012.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.64.54) by SN1NAM01HT088.eop-nam01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.64.185) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.21; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:14:02 + Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 195.201.199.169) smtp.mailfrom=indie.host; outlook.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=indie.host;outlook.com; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=indie.host;compauth=pass reason=109 Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of indie.host designates 195.201.199.169 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=195.201.199.169; helo=mail.indie.host; Received: from mail.indie.host (195.201.199.169) by SN1NAM01FT012.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.64.76) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.21 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:14:01 + X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:3B9969F29DB8F8B497A9C9FFAFC66A0AE4C6537955A953653217568EFEB280B5;UpperCasedChecksum:57C883C4E156BE8B2C54F046D8E4C851D632AA891995B9759433B004C2A0F949;SizeAsReceived:1078;Count:11 Received: from authenticated-user (mail.indie.host [195.201.199.169]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.indie.host (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 472B63104A3 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:14:00 + (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=indie.host; s=mail; t=1619637240; bh=4xTo9NybVTJVLznlhtmKky7A4ycQONri6kUHBVV8KvQ=; h=To:From:Subject:Date:From; b=hbvVu70PxQFCBUht1XyBDbJ6ayu9t+SK4UOzTrV+W4+B7mcS8wwVgbrwDPHxTeM5E MoFADifrRLBqM/UYmrDdhaZKVRfRAMGAQRllfH7Nq5ZcWXOT571C9YIn62pI7B79kU 0L9IhszaAikKMQkaiSsFeYIHQCT5wkc3uYhiNQR4= To: Pierre Ozoux From: Contact Subject: Hello! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 21:13:54 +0200 Content-Type:
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
I can only agree. Using Outlook means check your junk for important mail and find a lot of trash in your inbox. We have moved countless new customers away from Outlook because of this issue. I don't know why they don't care. Really. > Am 01.05.2021 um 18:55 schrieb Matt Corallo via mailop : > > If you're a small-scale sender, this is just the way it goes with > Outlook.com - SNDS doesn't do anything except provide you %s, and because the > number of emails from small-scale senders is so low (and the "customers" here > don't even pay for the service), Microsoft isn't incentivized to fix the > issue. The usual "if you're using outlook.com/hotmail and don't check your > junk folder regularly, you're missing messages" rule applies. > > If you're in the very-small-scale sender club SNDS doesn't even show you % > mails that went to spam, and exists purely to inform you that your IPs "have > normal status" despite all the mail from them going direct to Junk (and all > the headers, like you mentioned, showing scores of PCL=2/SCL=0/BCL=0). > > Worse, they haven't correctly resolved SPF/DKIM DNS records for many months > (despite sending and receiving DNS queries for the associated records)[1], > spuriously failing messages that others accept without issue. > > [1] > https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook/received-spf-temperror-protection-outlook-com-error-in/m-p/1801696 > > Matt > >> On 4/29/21 20:26, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote: >> We're having issues sending order confirmations from our event ticketing >> system to users of Microsoft's consumer email services (Outlook, Hotmail, >> Live, MSN). The order confirmations are being sent to Junk. Some details are >> below this paragraph. I've communicated with Microsoft's "Outlook.com >> Deliverability Support Team" and while they were very responsive, >> unfortunately we hit a roadblock. They wanted us to enroll in JMRP and SNDS. >> Microsoft's JMRP system requires enrollment in SNDS. However, to enroll in >> SNDS requires verifying ownership of the sending IP's. We don't own them. >> Our event ticketing system vendor who does hasn't been helpful. We own the >> sending domain. >> * SPF, DKIM, DMARC are all good and show as "pass" in the email headers of >> messages sent to junk. >> * Sending IP's have the correct PTR records. >> * Looking at the headers of a message sent to Junk, I see that our PCL = 2, >> SCL = 0 and BCL = 0. >> * MS confirmed our sending IP's and domain aren't the issue: "We were >> unable to identify anything on our side that >>would prevent your mail from reaching Outlook.com customers." >> * MS did however determine that "messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to >> the Junk folder) based on the >>recommendations of the SmartScreen Filter." >> * Email messages from the same sending domain and IP's, using the same >> address, which are other than order >>confirmations (reports, for example) deliver to my Outlook.com email >> address' Inbox without issue. >> * The offending emails have >> o No attachments >> o One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from >> o No links >> o No card info >> o A name and email address matching the recipient >> * All emails are sent from a valid address and all NDRs/bounces are >> resolved. >> * No marketing or bulk mail is sent from the domain. >> * The same emails sent to Google, AOL, Yahoo deliver without issue. >> I'm out of ideas here and would welcome any help on or off list. Our >> concern is if we can’t deliver an order confirmation to our customers who >> use these email services, we’ll also have issues delivering their electronic >> tickets. >> Robert Schoneman | Director of IT >> *Blumenthal Performing Arts* >> ___ >> mailop mailing list >> mailop@mailop.org >> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
If you're a small-scale sender, this is just the way it goes with Outlook.com - SNDS doesn't do anything except provide you %s, and because the number of emails from small-scale senders is so low (and the "customers" here don't even pay for the service), Microsoft isn't incentivized to fix the issue. The usual "if you're using outlook.com/hotmail and don't check your junk folder regularly, you're missing messages" rule applies. If you're in the very-small-scale sender club SNDS doesn't even show you % mails that went to spam, and exists purely to inform you that your IPs "have normal status" despite all the mail from them going direct to Junk (and all the headers, like you mentioned, showing scores of PCL=2/SCL=0/BCL=0). Worse, they haven't correctly resolved SPF/DKIM DNS records for many months (despite sending and receiving DNS queries for the associated records)[1], spuriously failing messages that others accept without issue. [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook/received-spf-temperror-protection-outlook-com-error-in/m-p/1801696 Matt On 4/29/21 20:26, Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote: We're having issues sending order confirmations from our event ticketing system to users of Microsoft's consumer email services (Outlook, Hotmail, Live, MSN). The order confirmations are being sent to Junk. Some details are below this paragraph. I've communicated with Microsoft's "Outlook.com Deliverability Support Team" and while they were very responsive, unfortunately we hit a roadblock. They wanted us to enroll in JMRP and SNDS. Microsoft's JMRP system requires enrollment in SNDS. However, to enroll in SNDS requires verifying ownership of the sending IP's. We don't own them. Our event ticketing system vendor who does hasn't been helpful. We own the sending domain. * SPF, DKIM, DMARC are all good and show as "pass" in the email headers of messages sent to junk. * Sending IP's have the correct PTR records. * Looking at the headers of a message sent to Junk, I see that our PCL = 2, SCL = 0 and BCL = 0. * MS confirmed our sending IP's and domain aren't the issue: "We were unable to identify anything on our side that would prevent your mail from reaching Outlook.com customers." * MS did however determine that "messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen Filter." * Email messages from the same sending domain and IP's, using the same address, which are other than order confirmations (reports, for example) deliver to my Outlook.com email address' Inbox without issue. * The offending emails have o No attachments o One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from o No links o No card info o A name and email address matching the recipient * All emails are sent from a valid address and all NDRs/bounces are resolved. * No marketing or bulk mail is sent from the domain. * The same emails sent to Google, AOL, Yahoo deliver without issue. I'm out of ideas here and would welcome any help on or off list. Our concern is if we can’t deliver an order confirmation to our customers who use these email services, we’ll also have issues delivering their electronic tickets. Robert Schoneman | Director of IT *Blumenthal Performing Arts* ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
"No links" means "no user clickable links". The image is a small logo. Message is HTML only. We don't have the ability to edit the message template beyond a few things like our organization's name, etc. -Original Message- From: mailop On Behalf Of Bob Proulx via mailop Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 1:10 AM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote: > * The offending emails have > * No attachments > * One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from > * No links Just some questions... That "One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from" must be a link, right? So the "No links" seems to be a conflict, right? Really meant no links other than this one image link? Might be better without any links. Is the image necessary? I assume this is HTML mail. Is it HTML only? Or is it multipart alternative with an appropriate plain text part? I suggest the latter but the plain text portion must be an appropriate alternative. But as for staring into the abyss that is Microsoft consumer email I try not to stare into that abyss too long as then the abyss stares back. I have had trouble dealing with them before and they are not friendly about it. Good luck! Bob ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__list.mailop.org_listinfo_mailop=DwIGaQ=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM=O9zkNrKbQF1fgs1KTBRWpbNPvZEkJNea930OX6UPkBE=LbtTV1gScMyjM-azzIrVcXtql5-1C6vcllEyE1gzCTg=gimUwC9nKDnQrAGm89kx3-1rnTob4_fc79Sysm5zZxc= ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
Robert Schoneman via mailop wrote: > * The offending emails have > * No attachments > * One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from > * No links Just some questions... That "One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from" must be a link, right? So the "No links" seems to be a conflict, right? Really meant no links other than this one image link? Might be better without any links. Is the image necessary? I assume this is HTML mail. Is it HTML only? Or is it multipart alternative with an appropriate plain text part? I suggest the latter but the plain text portion must be an appropriate alternative. But as for staring into the abyss that is Microsoft consumer email I try not to stare into that abyss too long as then the abyss stares back. I have had trouble dealing with them before and they are not friendly about it. Good luck! Bob ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
Keep replying, and explain why you can't enroll in SNDS, and ask them to ... "Escalate". That's all I can suggest, sorry. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." Open a ticket for Hotmail<http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866> ? From: mailop On Behalf Of Robert Schoneman via mailop Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 5:27 PM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] [mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue We're having issues sending order confirmations from our event ticketing system to users of Microsoft's consumer email services (Outlook, Hotmail, Live, MSN). The order confirmations are being sent to Junk. Some details are below this paragraph. I've communicated with Microsoft's "Outlook.com Deliverability Support Team" and while they were very responsive, unfortunately we hit a roadblock. They wanted us to enroll in JMRP and SNDS. Microsoft's JMRP system requires enrollment in SNDS. However, to enroll in SNDS requires verifying ownership of the sending IP's. We don't own them. Our event ticketing system vendor who does hasn't been helpful. We own the sending domain. * SPF, DKIM, DMARC are all good and show as "pass" in the email headers of messages sent to junk. * Sending IP's have the correct PTR records. * Looking at the headers of a message sent to Junk, I see that our PCL = 2, SCL = 0 and BCL = 0. * MS confirmed our sending IP's and domain aren't the issue: "We were unable to identify anything on our side that would prevent your mail from reaching Outlook.com customers." * MS did however determine that "messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen Filter." * Email messages from the same sending domain and IP's, using the same address, which are other than order confirmations (reports, for example) deliver to my Outlook.com email address' Inbox without issue. * The offending emails have * No attachments * One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from * No links * No card info * A name and email address matching the recipient * All emails are sent from a valid address and all NDRs/bounces are resolved. * No marketing or bulk mail is sent from the domain. * The same emails sent to Google, AOL, Yahoo deliver without issue. I'm out of ideas here and would welcome any help on or off list. Our concern is if we can't deliver an order confirmation to our customers who use these email services, we'll also have issues delivering their electronic tickets. Robert Schoneman | Director of IT Blumenthal Performing Arts ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] Microsoft Consumer Email Deliverability Issue
We're having issues sending order confirmations from our event ticketing system to users of Microsoft's consumer email services (Outlook, Hotmail, Live, MSN). The order confirmations are being sent to Junk. Some details are below this paragraph. I've communicated with Microsoft's "Outlook.com Deliverability Support Team" and while they were very responsive, unfortunately we hit a roadblock. They wanted us to enroll in JMRP and SNDS. Microsoft's JMRP system requires enrollment in SNDS. However, to enroll in SNDS requires verifying ownership of the sending IP's. We don't own them. Our event ticketing system vendor who does hasn't been helpful. We own the sending domain. * SPF, DKIM, DMARC are all good and show as "pass" in the email headers of messages sent to junk. * Sending IP's have the correct PTR records. * Looking at the headers of a message sent to Junk, I see that our PCL = 2, SCL = 0 and BCL = 0. * MS confirmed our sending IP's and domain aren't the issue: "We were unable to identify anything on our side that would prevent your mail from reaching Outlook.com customers." * MS did however determine that "messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen Filter." * Email messages from the same sending domain and IP's, using the same address, which are other than order confirmations (reports, for example) deliver to my Outlook.com email address' Inbox without issue. * The offending emails have * No attachments * One image stored on the same domain the message is sent from * No links * No card info * A name and email address matching the recipient * All emails are sent from a valid address and all NDRs/bounces are resolved. * No marketing or bulk mail is sent from the domain. * The same emails sent to Google, AOL, Yahoo deliver without issue. I'm out of ideas here and would welcome any help on or off list. Our concern is if we can't deliver an order confirmation to our customers who use these email services, we'll also have issues delivering their electronic tickets. Robert Schoneman | Director of IT Blumenthal Performing Arts ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
