Re: [mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Byung-Hee HWANG via mailop]

> "no auth, no entry"

This is it, thanks!


Sincerely, Byung-Hee
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Re: [mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2023-06-01 at 13:58:22 UTC-0400 (Thu, 01 Jun 2023 19:58:22 +0200)
Benny Pedersen via mailop 
is rumored to have said:

> default in all mta, at least postfix is to use new envelope sender so spf 
> works from new sender domain, why not keep it simple ?

That is simply FALSE.


Sendmail and Postfix DO NOT change the envelope sender for mail forwarded via 
alias or .forward mechanisms. That's the whole reason SRS tools exist.

-- 
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Michael Peddemors via mailop]

+ 1 (I believe you of course mean remote forwards)

On 2023-06-01 10:58, Benny Pedersen via mailop wrote:

if this is complicated, don't use forwards



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Re: [mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Benny Pedersen via mailop]

Robert L Mathews via mailop skrev den 2023-06-01 17:45:

Maybe other people have noticed and discussed this and I'm just behind
the times, but for more than a decade, Google specifically said:

"Avoid changing the envelope sender when forwarding email to Gmail."


lets use forged original sender, works much better :)


(You can see this as recently as last November at
.)


default in all mta, at least postfix is to use new envelope sender so 
spf works from new sender domain, why not keep it simple ?


note there google will see this non aligned in dmarc since its a forward


Because of that, we didn't do it. But I noticed that the current page
at  now says the exact
opposite:

"Change the envelope sender to reference your forwarding domain."

So I guess it's time to add SRS rewriting for Gmail addresses...!


no

SRS just hide all fails, it does not solve all fails, don't use SRS

google is right, use local adresses on the forward host that can bounce 
back to original sender local, if this is complicated, don't use 
forwards


Life is good, use linux

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Re: [mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Aaron Richton via mailop]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023, Robert L Mathews via mailop wrote:

Maybe other people have noticed and discussed this and I'm just behind 
the times, but for more than a decade, Google specifically said:


"Avoid changing the envelope sender when forwarding email to Gmail."


You're kind of proving the point with the archive.org link -- but you're 
not behind the times per se, the problem was the system behavior changed 
without the documentation changing.


(The other issue is that one of the common 5xx texts in this scenario 
references "PTR records," as Jarland's thread last month discussed -- 
which sadly gets you looking in the wrong direction.)


Nice to see docs that match reality, and it's also interesting to see the 
hat tip toward ARC for forwarding...


(You can see this as recently as last November at 
.)


Because of that, we didn't do it. But I noticed that the current page at 
 now says the exact opposite:


"Change the envelope sender to reference your forwarding domain."

So I guess it's time to add SRS rewriting for Gmail addresses...!

--
Robert L Mathews
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Re: [mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Brandon Long via mailop]

This is related to the note on https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126

> Important: Starting November 2022, new senders who send email to Google
Gmail accounts must set up either SPF or DKIM

which is to say, what they're saying is use a domain you control and
authenticate it, and make an effort to not forward spam.

"no auth, no entry"

Brandon

On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 8:56 AM Robert L Mathews via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

> Maybe other people have noticed and discussed this and I'm just behind
> the times, but for more than a decade, Google specifically said:
>
> "Avoid changing the envelope sender when forwarding email to Gmail."
>
> (You can see this as recently as last November at
> <
> https://web.archive.org/web/20221127015217/https://support.google.com/mail/answer/175365
> >.)
>
> Because of that, we didn't do it. But I noticed that the current page at
>  now says the exact
> opposite:
>
> "Change the envelope sender to reference your forwarding domain."
>
> So I guess it's time to add SRS rewriting for Gmail addresses...!
>
> --
> Robert L Mathews
> ___
> mailop mailing list
> mailop@mailop.org
> https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
>
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[mailop] Noticed Google now suggests changing envelope sender for forwarding

[Robert L Mathews via mailop]

Maybe other people have noticed and discussed this and I'm just behind 
the times, but for more than a decade, Google specifically said:


"Avoid changing the envelope sender when forwarding email to Gmail."

(You can see this as recently as last November at 
.)


Because of that, we didn't do it. But I noticed that the current page at 
 now says the exact opposite:


"Change the envelope sender to reference your forwarding domain."

So I guess it's time to add SRS rewriting for Gmail addresses...!

--
Robert L Mathews
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