Re: [mailop] Outlook.com losing eMail messages and SNDS reporting failures

2023-12-04 Thread Gellner, Oliver via mailop 
On 2.12.2023 at 05:37 Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:

> Some of my users have been reporting that eMail messages are getting lost 
> intermittently when they're sent to users at any internet domain name that 
> relies on OUTLOOK.COM for its MX.
> Our mail server logs confirm that all outbound messages were accepted to 
> those MX's (except for mistyped addresses or when a user's quota is 
> exhausted, in which case the usual SMTP rejections occur).  No bounces were 
> received.
> Users have also reported the same intermittent problems when sending from 
> other providers (including GMail, YahooMail, etc.).  No bounces were received 
> (as far as I know).

Do you see this issue when sending emails to Microsofts consumer domains 
(Hotmail, Outlook.com, Live, etc) or to their Office365 email infrastructure? 
I'm asking because with Office365 there might be filter rules in place which 
put the message in some quarantines that the user or even the tenant 
administrator is unaware of. In this case the message would not be lost, it 
only ended up in a place that the end user cannot access.

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Oliver Gellner


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Re: [mailop] Outlook.com losing eMail messages and SNDS reporting failures

2023-12-03 Thread Slavko via mailop 
Dňa 3. decembra 2023 8:58:23 UTC používateľ Thomas Walter via mailop 
 napísal:

>I haven't heard about issues like these for a while, but it was also difficult 
>to recognize them in the past. Unless people expected an email, they didn't 
>report them as lost.

IMO that is expected, one cannot complain about missing of
not expected mails ;-) And sometime nor about expected, as
even if it is expected, it can be not sent...

>Most mailops I talked to expected it to be a spamfilter issue: E-Mails that 
>got too bad of a score for random reasons were just not delivered, not even 
>into the spamfolder.

Of course, too obvious SPAMs i don't deliver to users at all too,
but instead of swallow (blackhole) them, i reject them after
data.

But perhaps i am doing that wrongly, and i have to learn from
MS how to do it better :-P

regards


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Re: [mailop] Outlook.com losing eMail messages and SNDS reporting failures

2023-12-03 Thread Thomas Walter via mailop 



On 02.12.23 04:36, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:

Some of my users have been reporting that eMail messages are getting
lost intermittently when they're sent to users at any internet domain
name that relies on OUTLOOK.COM for its MX.
In German universities Microsoft's mail services had the reputation of 
randomly swallowing individual emails like a black hole - never to be 
found again.


I haven't heard about issues like these for a while, but it was also 
difficult to recognize them in the past. Unless people expected an 
email, they didn't report them as lost.


Most mailops I talked to expected it to be a spamfilter issue: E-Mails 
that got too bad of a score for random reasons were just not delivered, 
not even into the spamfolder.


Regards,
Thomas Walter

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Thomas Walter
Datenverarbeitungszentrale

FH Münster
- University of Applied Sciences -
Corrensstr. 25, Raum B 112
48149 Münster

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Fax: +49 251 83 64 910
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Re: [mailop] Outlook.com losing eMail messages and SNDS reporting failures

2023-12-02 Thread Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop 
One question that may be worth raising with Microsoft is:

If eMail messages aren't getting to their intended receipients 
that 
you're hosting eMail for, then how can we know for certain that they 
weren't delivered to some other recipient's mailbox by mistake?

This is where privacy laws could become an issue, unless Microsoft 
provides assurnace for mail server administrators to the contrary, 
such as a transcript of a given message's routing points (and they 
wouldn't have to expose internal IP addresses to accomplish this).

I'm tempted to put this question to Microsoft, but I'm also 
sympathetic to the distinct possibility that their system is just 
unreliable and randomly losing messages -- these are some of the 
considerations that can't be ignored since their systems are, in 
effect, a giant black box.

As far as asking about SPF records and whatnot, if that is 
intentional gaslighting, then it's quite easy to do because there are 
many aspects of running mail systems these days that can lead to 
problems if not configured properly.

> I never found anyone of consequence who would agree with me or admit 
> that it happens, but I will continue to swear that this is a feature of 
> Hotmail/Outlook. The first time I identified it I think was in 2013. A 
> customer reported the same behavior from their HostGator VPS (when I 
> worked there). I had a test Hotmail account so I logged into their VPS 
> and sent myself an email. Microsoft accepted it, but it was nowhere to 
> be found. Not the spam folder, inbox, nothing. I moved another domain to 
> their VPS temporarily and sent mail from that domain, and it was 
> received. To me that drew the conclusion that this was related to the 
> reputation of the sending domain in Microsoft's systems.
> 
> We're not alone:
> 
> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/mail-not-received-outlookcom-response-to-sending/fd4211a6-c8e6-41fb-a94e-8254706f2ec1
> 
> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/messages-reported-as-250-queued-for-delivery-but/f451cda5-ba7d-45ff-b643-501efe2413dc
> 
> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/sendgrid-says-emails-delivered-but-customers-with/62de80ab-c006-4507-86d1-708d255c996d
> 
> https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/email-accepted-by-hotmail-but-not-delivered/83621726-60f8-46ce-9416-daf2385acca3
> 
> I for one would love to see this topic validated, but all I find across 
> the internet seems to be gaslighting like "Is your SPF correct?"
> 
> On 2023-12-01 22:36, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:
> > Some of my users have been reporting that eMail messages are getting
> > lost intermittently when they're sent to users at any internet domain
> > name that relies on OUTLOOK.COM for its MX.
> > 
> > Our mail server logs confirm that all outbound messages were
> > accepted to those MX's (except for mistyped addresses or when a
> > user's quota is exhausted, in which case the usual SMTP rejections
> > occur).  No bounces were received.
> > 
> > Users have also reported the same intermittent problems when sending
> > from other providers (including GMail, YahooMail, etc.).  No bounces
> > were received (as far as I know).
> > 
> > We signed up for Microsoft's SNDS over a year ago, and added the
> > IPv4 addresses of our mail servers (unfortunately IPv6 is still not
> > supported, so more than 50% of our outbound SMTP connections won't be
> > included in whatever statistics are supposed to be provided by SNDS).
> > 
> > After logging in, the "View Data" section indicates the following:
> > 
> > No data for specified IPs on this date
> > 
> > In the past we were able to download a few CSV reports using the
> > links in the "Automated Data Access" section, but now they're only
> > presenting empty files (0 bytes).
> > 
> > Does anyone know if this just a temporary problem with SNDS that
> > occurs from time-to-time, or is there something more that we need to
> > do to get meaningful results from SNDS?  (The ChatGPT AI support bots
> > have not been helpful.)
> > 
> > Thanks.
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Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com
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Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
https://www.inter-corporate.com/


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Re: [mailop] Outlook.com losing eMail messages and SNDS reporting failures

2023-12-02 Thread Jarland Donnell via mailop 
I never found anyone of consequence who would agree with me or admit 
that it happens, but I will continue to swear that this is a feature of 
Hotmail/Outlook. The first time I identified it I think was in 2013. A 
customer reported the same behavior from their HostGator VPS (when I 
worked there). I had a test Hotmail account so I logged into their VPS 
and sent myself an email. Microsoft accepted it, but it was nowhere to 
be found. Not the spam folder, inbox, nothing. I moved another domain to 
their VPS temporarily and sent mail from that domain, and it was 
received. To me that drew the conclusion that this was related to the 
reputation of the sending domain in Microsoft's systems.


We're not alone:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/mail-not-received-outlookcom-response-to-sending/fd4211a6-c8e6-41fb-a94e-8254706f2ec1

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/messages-reported-as-250-queued-for-delivery-but/f451cda5-ba7d-45ff-b643-501efe2413dc

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/sendgrid-says-emails-delivered-but-customers-with/62de80ab-c006-4507-86d1-708d255c996d

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/email-accepted-by-hotmail-but-not-delivered/83621726-60f8-46ce-9416-daf2385acca3

I for one would love to see this topic validated, but all I find across 
the internet seems to be gaslighting like "Is your SPF correct?"


On 2023-12-01 22:36, Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop wrote:

Some of my users have been reporting that eMail messages are getting
lost intermittently when they're sent to users at any internet domain
name that relies on OUTLOOK.COM for its MX.

Our mail server logs confirm that all outbound messages were
accepted to those MX's (except for mistyped addresses or when a
user's quota is exhausted, in which case the usual SMTP rejections
occur).  No bounces were received.

Users have also reported the same intermittent problems when sending
from other providers (including GMail, YahooMail, etc.).  No bounces
were received (as far as I know).

We signed up for Microsoft's SNDS over a year ago, and added the
IPv4 addresses of our mail servers (unfortunately IPv6 is still not
supported, so more than 50% of our outbound SMTP connections won't be
included in whatever statistics are supposed to be provided by SNDS).

After logging in, the "View Data" section indicates the following:

No data for specified IPs on this date

In the past we were able to download a few CSV reports using the
links in the "Automated Data Access" section, but now they're only
presenting empty files (0 bytes).

Does anyone know if this just a temporary problem with SNDS that
occurs from time-to-time, or is there something more that we need to
do to get meaningful results from SNDS?  (The ChatGPT AI support bots
have not been helpful.)

Thanks.

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[mailop] Outlook.com losing eMail messages and SNDS reporting failures

2023-12-01 Thread Randolf Richardson, Postmaster via mailop 
Some of my users have been reporting that eMail messages are getting 
lost intermittently when they're sent to users at any internet domain 
name that relies on OUTLOOK.COM for its MX.

Our mail server logs confirm that all outbound messages were 
accepted to those MX's (except for mistyped addresses or when a 
user's quota is exhausted, in which case the usual SMTP rejections 
occur).  No bounces were received.

Users have also reported the same intermittent problems when sending 
from other providers (including GMail, YahooMail, etc.).  No bounces 
were received (as far as I know).

We signed up for Microsoft's SNDS over a year ago, and added the 
IPv4 addresses of our mail servers (unfortunately IPv6 is still not 
supported, so more than 50% of our outbound SMTP connections won't be 
included in whatever statistics are supposed to be provided by SNDS).

After logging in, the "View Data" section indicates the following:

No data for specified IPs on this date

In the past we were able to download a few CSV reports using the 
links in the "Automated Data Access" section, but now they're only 
presenting empty files (0 bytes).

Does anyone know if this just a temporary problem with SNDS that 
occurs from time-to-time, or is there something more that we need to 
do to get meaningful results from SNDS?  (The ChatGPT AI support bots 
have not been helpful.)

Thanks.

-- 
Postmaster - postmas...@inter-corporate.com
Randolf Richardson - rand...@inter-corporate.com
Inter-Corporate Computer & Network Services, Inc.
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
https://www.inter-corporate.com/


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