Re: [mailop] SMTP equivalent of HTTP 30x redirect ? - was Re: O365 throttling email forwards
On Wed, 1 Mar 2023, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: Dnia 28.02.2023 o godz. 16:57:51 John Levine via mailop pisze: I have tried a vast array of things to make forwarding work to Gmail, including ARC, and the results are at best spotty. So I tell my users if you want to do that, here's how to tell Gmail to pick up your mail from your mailbox here. So basically we can sum it up this way: Forwarding is the way it should be done. But because somebody (it's hard to tell exactly who) messed it up so bad, now everybody is pushing us to do it exactly the opposite way it should be done. Well... another example that we live in a crazy world... -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- As a practical matter forwarding of mail is broken at this point. Even implemented properly with SRS and ARC deliverability can be spotty. People tend to forget that gmail is a customized online email client. Email clients should be able to pull mail from multiple locations and gmail allows for this. Whether you think it's crazy or not it's my opinion it's the best way for your users to actually get their mail. Ted ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] SMTP equivalent of HTTP 30x redirect ? - was Re: O365 throttling email forwards
Dnia 28.02.2023 o godz. 16:57:51 John Levine via mailop pisze: > I have tried a vast array of things to make forwarding work to Gmail, > including ARC, and the results are at best spotty. So I tell my users > if you want to do that, here's how to tell Gmail to pick up your mail > from your mailbox here. So basically we can sum it up this way: Forwarding is the way it should be done. But because somebody (it's hard to tell exactly who) messed it up so bad, now everybody is pushing us to do it exactly the opposite way it should be done. Well... another example that we live in a crazy world... -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] SMTP equivalent of HTTP 30x redirect ? - was Re: O365 throttling email forwards
It appears that Mark E. Jeftovic via mailop said: >-=-=-=-=-=- >-=-=-=-=-=- > >If you're using Sender Rewrite (SRS) with proper SPF / DKIM data and >doing a normal rational amount of spam filtering and running a clean >shop in terms of policing abuse, then there should be absolutely nothing >controversial or egregious about email forwarding. You might want to check out this thing called DMARC. I have tried a vast array of things to make forwarding work to Gmail, including ARC, and the results are at best spotty. So I tell my users if you want to do that, here's how to tell Gmail to pick up your mail from your mailbox here. R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] SMTP equivalent of HTTP 30x redirect ? - was Re: O365 throttling email forwards
If you're using Sender Rewrite (SRS) with proper SPF / DKIM data and doing a normal rational amount of spam filtering and running a clean shop in terms of policing abuse, then there should be absolutely nothing controversial or egregious about email forwarding. Forwarding email using your own domain is one of the oldest use cases for having a domain and it provides a very necessary level of abstraction to remove vendor or intermediary dependency. Saying "people shouldn't forward email" is the equivalent of shouting at clouds. - mark On 2023-02-28 1:31 PM, Andrew C Aitchison via mailop wrote: On Tue, 28 Feb 2023, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: On 2023-02-28 08:00, Mark E. Jeftovic via mailop wrote: Hey all, Looks like customers trying to forward email from their own domains here, to their O365 mailboxes are getting throttled with: Stop 'remote forwarding'... simple.. Save you and your customers grief.. Is there an SMTP equivalent of the HTTP 30x status codes ? Such an option would achieve some of the purposes of forwarding without re-sending spam, but would have privacy issues and allow spammers to update their lists. Serious considerations to balance, but is this option technically available ? -- Mark E. Jeftovic Co-founder & CEO easyDNS Technologies Inc. +1-(416)-535-8672 ext 225 /"Never expect a thing you do not want, and never desire a thing you do not expect." -- Bob Proctor /___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] SMTP equivalent of HTTP 30x redirect ? - was Re: O365 throttling email forwards
On 2023-02-28 at 13:31:13 UTC-0500 (Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:31:13 + (GMT)) Andrew C Aitchison via mailop is rumored to have said: On Tue, 28 Feb 2023, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: On 2023-02-28 08:00, Mark E. Jeftovic via mailop wrote: Hey all, Looks like customers trying to forward email from their own domains here, to their O365 mailboxes are getting throttled with: Stop 'remote forwarding'... simple.. Save you and your customers grief.. Is there an SMTP equivalent of the HTTP 30x status codes ? No, because it is no sender's business whether my users have migrated to GMail or MS365. :) There is a reply code for 'moved' but I doubt that anyone outside of academia and the last century has actually tried to make it useful. It should not be made useful. Such an option would achieve some of the purposes of forwarding without re-sending spam, but would have privacy issues and allow spammers to update their lists. Serious considerations to balance, Not really. The privacy issue overrides any other consideration. Senders are predominantly evil(*), so exposing private information to them is bad. No one has figured out an authentication mechanism for SMTP senders generally that works, much less a trustworthy public reputation system for senders. but is this option technically available ? No. No mail system that replied with useful 551 responses could ever be trusted. (*) I have hard proof of this in my firewall and mail server logs. Counter-arguments based on some senders being good can't refute them. -- Bill Cole b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org (AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] SMTP equivalent of HTTP 30x redirect ? - was Re: O365 throttling email forwards
On Tue, 28 Feb 2023, Michael Peddemors via mailop wrote: On 2023-02-28 08:00, Mark E. Jeftovic via mailop wrote: Hey all, Looks like customers trying to forward email from their own domains here, to their O365 mailboxes are getting throttled with: Stop 'remote forwarding'... simple.. Save you and your customers grief.. Is there an SMTP equivalent of the HTTP 30x status codes ? Such an option would achieve some of the purposes of forwarding without re-sending spam, but would have privacy issues and allow spammers to update their lists. Serious considerations to balance, but is this option technically available ? -- Andrew C. Aitchison Kendal, UK and...@aitchison.me.uk ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
