Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Franck Martin via mailop 
As Michael says "Microsoft not Hotmail"

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Renaud Allard via mailop  wrote:

>
>
> On 21/09/16 22:29, Franck Martin via mailop wrote:
>
>>
>> What Microsoft does differently with DMARC, is that instead of rejecting
>> the email it should reject, it accepts them and deliver them to the junk
>> folder in the highest form of protection.
>>
>>
> Actually, no. I sent an email to Gilles' email at hotmail from a DMARC
> unauthorized machine and got a clear message from hotmail servers:
> 550 5.7.0 (BAY004-MC3F56) Unfortunately, messages from (W.X.Y.Z) on behalf
> of (some.host.name) could not be delivered due to domain owner policy
> restrictions.
> That's with this kind of record: "v=DMARC1\; p=reject\; sp=reject\;
> pct=100\;"
>
>
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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Renaud Allard via mailop 



On 21/09/16 22:29, Franck Martin via mailop wrote:


What Microsoft does differently with DMARC, is that instead of rejecting
the email it should reject, it accepts them and deliver them to the junk
folder in the highest form of protection.



Actually, no. I sent an email to Gilles' email at hotmail from a DMARC 
unauthorized machine and got a clear message from hotmail servers:
550 5.7.0 (BAY004-MC3F56) Unfortunately, messages from (W.X.Y.Z) on 
behalf of (some.host.name) could not be delivered due to domain owner 
policy restrictions.
That's with this kind of record: "v=DMARC1\; p=reject\; sp=reject\; 
pct=100\;"




smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Gilles Chehade via mailop 
On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 06:32:45AM -0700, Steve Atkins wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > The following paste is a trace from the mta engine starting right after
> > STARTTLS is established:
> > 
> >http://pastebin.com/VY8zxcjQ
> > 
> > 
> > The following paste is a complete copy paste of the raw message as seen
> > in the Junk folder:
> > 
> >http://pastebin.com/uTyx90dE
> 
> Nothing stands out as being problematic in any of that. I'd guess it's
> not MTA-specific, rather something about the reputation (or lack thereof)
> of your smarthost from Microsoft's perspective, something content-related,
> or just MS being inscrutable.
> 
> ... uh, given you're doing MTA development, you don't have test autoresponders
> or anything else that might backscatter on that box, do you?
> 

not at all, I actually check manually :-)


-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Gilles Chehade via mailop 
On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 05:49:48AM -0700, Steve Atkins wrote:
> 
> > On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:02 AM, Gilles Chehade  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the format of our headers
> > and if this could affect users of our software disregarding the kind
> > of mails they send with it. I've been tackling this for hours before
> > contacting the mailing list.
> > 
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of ideas :-)
> 
> Sharing a sample of those headers on a paste site (and maybe
> a protocol level trace of a failing transaction) might get you some
> feedback on whether anything looks off about them.
> 

Hi,

The following paste is a trace from the mta engine starting right after
STARTTLS is established:

http://pastebin.com/VY8zxcjQ


The following paste is a complete copy paste of the raw message as seen
in the Junk folder:

http://pastebin.com/uTyx90dE


As I said earlier, I'm not necessarily looking to troubleshoot this one
particular message / domain, just trying to make sure that there is not
something in the MTA generated headers that makes microsoft unhappy, we
have been unable to find a single user that can inbox the most simple
mail at microsoft which worries me.

As a side note, two postfix users also went Junk by default so if I
can just rule out it's something bad that we, opensmtpd, do, I'll be
plenty happy ;-)

-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Michael Wise via mailop 

The headers in particular.
And is this to Hotmail, et al or Office365?

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Steve Atkins<mailto:st...@blighty.com>
Sent: ‎9/‎21/‎2016 5:56 AM
To: mailop<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>
Subject: Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?


> On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:02 AM, Gilles Chehade <gil...@poolp.org> wrote:
>
>
> I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the format of our headers
> and if this could affect users of our software disregarding the kind
> of mails they send with it. I've been tackling this for hours before
> contacting the mailing list.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of ideas :-)

Sharing a sample of those headers on a paste site (and maybe
a protocol level trace of a failing transaction) might get you some
feedback on whether anything looks off about them.

Cheers,
  Steve


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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Steve Atkins 

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:02 AM, Gilles Chehade  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the format of our headers
> and if this could affect users of our software disregarding the kind
> of mails they send with it. I've been tackling this for hours before
> contacting the mailing list.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of ideas :-)

Sharing a sample of those headers on a paste site (and maybe
a protocol level trace of a failing transaction) might get you some
feedback on whether anything looks off about them.

Cheers,
  Steve


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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Gilles Chehade via mailop 
On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:56:14AM +, Eric Henson wrote:
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866 
> 

Thanks, I was aware of this link however I'm more worried about a problem not
necessarily tied to my own case.

Another user using his own setup also gets spamboxed when mailing me, whereas
someone else using a different MTA doesn't get spamboxed.

I was hoping someone a bit technical could take a look at headers from a mail
I sent myself and tell me "yes there is something wrong, can't tell you what"
or "nope, the problem is not related to your message construct" so that I can
at least know I'm not going to spend time looking in the wrong directions ;-)

Sorry if this is not the right list to ask for similar questions but I know a
bunch of people here could help, trying my chance

Gilles



> -Original Message-
> From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Gilles Chehade
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 6:02 AM
> To: mailop@mailop.org
> Subject: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm lead developer of an opensource MTA called OpenSMTPD.
> 
> We run a mailing-list for our project with very low volume, exchanging a few 
> thousands messages each month to around 400 people, very few of them being 
> hosted at big hosts, all of them having subscribed voluntarily.
> 
> In addition to this, we use a few mailboxes at major hosts and send some 
> mails every now and then to ensure we didn't break the smtp engine, this 
> usually amounts to less than 10 mails / month per big ISP.
> 
> All of these mails respect all best-practices that we know of:
> 
> - they are sent from long existing domains;
> - they are rate-limited despite low volume;
> - they are DKIM/DomainKeys signed;
> - DNS is properly configured with valid DNS/rDNS for the one IP address;
> - IP address is the same as the MX accepting mail for the domain;
> - SPF is properly declared, so is DMARC;
> 
> I checked senderscore and we actually send so few volume we don't even have a 
> reputation visible there.
> 
> I've started receiving complaints about users receiving their messages in the 
> spambox only at microsoft-hosted domains. No problem for gmail, yahoo, orange 
> and others, just microsoft.
> 
> I did some testing, and it turns out that even the simplest mails will end up 
> spamboxed no matter what machine or domain I use to send. The reason 
> advertised in the Microsoft appended domains may vary if I turn off DKim, 
> strip some or all Received lines, but basically no matter my configuration, 
> mails will not be inboxed.
> 
> I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the format of our headers and if 
> this could affect users of our software disregarding the kind of mails they 
> send with it. I've been tackling this for hours before contacting the mailing 
> list.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of ideas :-)
> 
> 
> --
> Gilles Chehade
> 
> https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg
> 
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-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

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Re: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Eric Henson 
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866 


(Stolen from Michael's signature)

-Original Message-
From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Gilles Chehade
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 6:02 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

Hi,

I'm lead developer of an opensource MTA called OpenSMTPD.

We run a mailing-list for our project with very low volume, exchanging a few 
thousands messages each month to around 400 people, very few of them being 
hosted at big hosts, all of them having subscribed voluntarily.

In addition to this, we use a few mailboxes at major hosts and send some mails 
every now and then to ensure we didn't break the smtp engine, this usually 
amounts to less than 10 mails / month per big ISP.

All of these mails respect all best-practices that we know of:

- they are sent from long existing domains;
- they are rate-limited despite low volume;
- they are DKIM/DomainKeys signed;
- DNS is properly configured with valid DNS/rDNS for the one IP address;
- IP address is the same as the MX accepting mail for the domain;
- SPF is properly declared, so is DMARC;

I checked senderscore and we actually send so few volume we don't even have a 
reputation visible there.

I've started receiving complaints about users receiving their messages in the 
spambox only at microsoft-hosted domains. No problem for gmail, yahoo, orange 
and others, just microsoft.

I did some testing, and it turns out that even the simplest mails will end up 
spamboxed no matter what machine or domain I use to send. The reason advertised 
in the Microsoft appended domains may vary if I turn off DKim, strip some or 
all Received lines, but basically no matter my configuration, mails will not be 
inboxed.

I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the format of our headers and if 
this could affect users of our software disregarding the kind of mails they 
send with it. I've been tackling this for hours before contacting the mailing 
list.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of ideas :-)


--
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

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[mailop] anyone from Microsoft around ?

2016-09-21 Thread Gilles Chehade 
Hi,

I'm lead developer of an opensource MTA called OpenSMTPD.

We run a mailing-list for our project with very low volume, exchanging a
few thousands messages each month to around 400 people, very few of them
being hosted at big hosts, all of them having subscribed voluntarily.

In addition to this, we use a few mailboxes at major hosts and send some
mails every now and then to ensure we didn't break the smtp engine, this
usually amounts to less than 10 mails / month per big ISP.

All of these mails respect all best-practices that we know of:

- they are sent from long existing domains;
- they are rate-limited despite low volume;
- they are DKIM/DomainKeys signed;
- DNS is properly configured with valid DNS/rDNS for the one IP address;
- IP address is the same as the MX accepting mail for the domain;
- SPF is properly declared, so is DMARC;

I checked senderscore and we actually send so few volume we don't even
have a reputation visible there.

I've started receiving complaints about users receiving their messages
in the spambox only at microsoft-hosted domains. No problem for gmail,
yahoo, orange and others, just microsoft.

I did some testing, and it turns out that even the simplest mails will
end up spamboxed no matter what machine or domain I use to send. The
reason advertised in the Microsoft appended domains may vary if I turn
off DKim, strip some or all Received lines, but basically no matter
my configuration, mails will not be inboxed.

I'm wondering if there is something wrong in the format of our headers
and if this could affect users of our software disregarding the kind
of mails they send with it. I've been tackling this for hours before
contacting the mailing list.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm running out of ideas :-)


-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

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