Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop]

Am 28.03.23 um 14:19 schrieb John Levine via mailop:

It appears that Dan Malm via mailop  said:

And then we have freenom, still giving away .tk, .ml, .ga, .cf and .gq
domains for free... I don't block those TLDs, but they spew out enough
spam that they go directly to the spam folder.

Not any more.  Meta/Facebook sued them for endless phishing and they
stopped taking new registrations several months ago.


Well, either they are taking registrations again or this is an old one: 
c8r97.cf was seen in a fake dating spam today.

I still don't see a compelling reason to accept mail from or referencing those 
domains.

Cheers,
Hans-Martin

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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Dan Malm via mailop  said:
>And then we have freenom, still giving away .tk, .ml, .ga, .cf and .gq 
>domains for free... I don't block those TLDs, but they spew out enough 
>spam that they go directly to the spam folder.

Not any more.  Meta/Facebook sued them for endless phishing and they
stopped taking new registrations several months ago.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Dan Malm via mailop]

On 3/22/23 23:32, Bill Cole via mailop wrote:
It may be worth noting that pw has a particularly notable position, as 
it was one of the earliest demonstrators of how a registry can sabotage 
a TLD. They decided to market their "Pro Web" domains by making them 
free and returnable for a while when first introduced. This was jumped 
on by a few spamming operations who basically drenched the TLD in a vat 
of reputational sewage that will likely NEVER wash off, all in about a 
week almost exactly 10 years ago. Even worse, the event apparently gave 
other TLD hucksters the idea of launching in the same way, dooming a 
handful of other gTLDs (and pimped-out ccTLDs like pw) to a lifetime of 
crap deliverability.


And then we have freenom, still giving away .tk, .ml, .ga, .cf and .gq 
domains for free... I don't block those TLDs, but they spew out enough 
spam that they go directly to the spam folder.


--
BR/Mvh. Dan Malm, Systems Engineer, one.com

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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Bill Cole via mailop]

On 2023-03-22 at 15:44:10 UTC-0400 (Thu, 23 Mar 2023 03:44:10 +0800)
fh--- via mailop 
is rumored to have said:


May I know why you block PW TLD entirety?
Not all of them are spams IMO.


100% of the messages arriving at the mail systems I manage claiming to 
be from a *.pw domain were spam, prior to my outright banning them. In 
the years since, I've never had any indication that any of the messages 
rejected as a result have not also been spam.


It may be worth noting that pw has a particularly notable position, as 
it was one of the earliest demonstrators of how a registry can sabotage 
a TLD. They decided to market their "Pro Web" domains by making them 
free and returnable for a while when first introduced. This was jumped 
on by a few spamming operations who basically drenched the TLD in a vat 
of reputational sewage that will likely NEVER wash off, all in about a 
week almost exactly 10 years ago. Even worse, the event apparently gave 
other TLD hucksters the idea of launching in the same way, dooming a 
handful of other gTLDs (and pimped-out ccTLDs like pw) to a lifetime of 
crap deliverability.


If I ever have reason to believe that any user of any system I handle 
will ever receive a wanted message from a *@*.pw address (or any address 
in any of the other TLDs with similar blocks,) I will exempt the domain 
in question. It has happened for some .online domains and more domains 
in2 TLDs that I no longer block. Not for pw.





On 2023-03-22 23:53, John Levine via mailop wrote:

It appears that fh--- via mailop  said:

On 2023-03-22 12:19, Scott Undercofler wrote:

Like .tk and .ml that are free?



He means the .pw TLD he was using.


Oh, no wonder.  I block it too.

R's,
John
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--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not Currently Available For Hire
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Michael Orlitzky via mailop]

On 2023-03-22 20:12:31, Slavko via mailop wrote:
> 
> But seriously, what is difference between .com and .pw (or any
> other domain name) other than that .com is here +- from start
> of DNS?

When dot-pw went public, it was heavily abused by spammers:

https://www.domainregistration.com.au/news/2013/1305-pw-domain-spam.php

It may be time to forgive them, but you'll still have to convince
people that the signal to noise ratio makes it worth their time. For
example, in the decade since we blocked it, I'm aware of exactly one
false positive... and that was from someone who worked at the
registrar.
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[William Kern via mailop]

On 3/21/23 6:16 PM, fh--- via mailop wrote:

Hello

Does sender domain itself have influence on delivery reputation? is 
new domain worse than old one? and xyz/info/pub/... domains worse than 
.com one?




Regarding TLDs.

Many orgs (including this one)

Use a tool such as

https://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/tlds/

and add Spam Penalty points for those TLDs as appropriate

Thus the email is not rejected for the worst offenders but is almost 
guaranteed to be put in quarantine or otherwise marked as potential spam


At present your TLD .pw scores pretty low

.pw = 1.4% bad (score 0.09) which is on par with .com

So you would not be affected here.

Sincerely,

William Kern

PixelGate Networks.


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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Frost The Fox via mailop]

I'm not saying they're required to accept everyone's mail. And I hold
nothing against anyone trying to protect themselves or their users from
spammers. But if they have decided not to accept my TLD, it would be nice
to know that instead of running around wondering what list my domain found
itself on. Whether that is via the reject message, or replying to an email
to the relevant contact points.

Of course, as a mail admin, and with this being my personal domain, I know
what to do when I get a bounce like this, and I have alternatives
available. But someone who buys a cheap domain and mail hosting for a small
business or something like that and gets the bounce message will have no
idea what to do about it.

In any case, someone very kindly contacted me off list about my situation.
I was just sharing the example of a known TLD block I experienced and what
it can be like from the blocked side.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 3:01 PM John Levine  wrote:

> It appears that Frost The Fox via mailop  said:
> >-=-=-=-=-=-
> >-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> >Which I can understand, I obviously might not like it as a legitimate user
> >of the TLD, but sometimes a measure like that could be the most effective
> >mitigation (especially for smaller scale ops). What I did have a problem
> >with was both the fact that the message was generic ("sender rejected"),
> >which isn't very helpful if I wasn't a mail admin, and that no one seemed
> >willing to talk to me about it (emails to contact addresses were not
> >allowed from my domain either, and emailing from other addresses went
> >unanswered).
>
> I would definitely ask them to refund the money you paid them to accept
> your mail.
>
> Oh, wait.
>
> If you want people to accept your mail, it is a good idea not to look
> like a spammer. It is hard for me to imagine why anyone would want to
> use a .PW domain for mail other, perhaps, than the handful of people
> who live there.
>
> R's,
> John
>
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Slavko via mailop]

Dňa 22. marca 2023 19:01:45 UTC používateľ John Levine via mailop 
 napísal:

>If you want people to accept your mail, it is a good idea not to look
>like a spammer. It is hard for me to imagine why anyone would want to
>use a .PW domain for mail other, perhaps, than the handful of people
>who live there.

For me it is hard to imagine why anyone would want to use .com
domain for mail other, perhaps, than the handful of people who
live there.

Oh, wait, nobody live in COM...

But seriously, what is difference between .com and .pw (or any
other domain name) other than that .com is here +- from start
of DNS?

IIRC .com is top abused TLD as reported by Spamhaus' bothet
report, the .pw is even not in top 20, thus why people do block
.pw but not .com? No, the spam/nospam ratio (often used as
argument) is IMO not real reason, it is just because nobody is
enough brave to block old .com, but many are heroes to block
not as common/new domains.

regards


-- 
Slavko
https://www.slavino.sk/
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[fh--- via mailop]

May I know why you block PW TLD entirety?
Not all of them are spams IMO.


On 2023-03-22 23:53, John Levine via mailop wrote:

It appears that fh--- via mailop  said:

On 2023-03-22 12:19, Scott Undercofler wrote:

Like .tk and .ml that are free?



He means the .pw TLD he was using.


Oh, no wonder.  I block it too.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that Frost The Fox via mailop  said:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>Which I can understand, I obviously might not like it as a legitimate user
>of the TLD, but sometimes a measure like that could be the most effective
>mitigation (especially for smaller scale ops). What I did have a problem
>with was both the fact that the message was generic ("sender rejected"),
>which isn't very helpful if I wasn't a mail admin, and that no one seemed
>willing to talk to me about it (emails to contact addresses were not
>allowed from my domain either, and emailing from other addresses went
>unanswered).

I would definitely ask them to refund the money you paid them to accept your 
mail.

Oh, wait.

If you want people to accept your mail, it is a good idea not to look
like a spammer. It is hard for me to imagine why anyone would want to
use a .PW domain for mail other, perhaps, than the handful of people
who live there.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Frost The Fox via mailop]

Which I can understand, I obviously might not like it as a legitimate user
of the TLD, but sometimes a measure like that could be the most effective
mitigation (especially for smaller scale ops). What I did have a problem
with was both the fact that the message was generic ("sender rejected"),
which isn't very helpful if I wasn't a mail admin, and that no one seemed
willing to talk to me about it (emails to contact addresses were not
allowed from my domain either, and emailing from other addresses went
unanswered).

It's not a huge issue as I just use one of my other addresses to forward
things to my family member (and we're trying to move him away from that
address anyway), but the fact that as a customer, I can't even forward
emails to myself, is kinda frustrating.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 11:58 AM John Levine via mailop 
wrote:

> It appears that fh--- via mailop  said:
> >On 2023-03-22 12:19, Scott Undercofler wrote:
> >> Like .tk and .ml that are free?
> >>
> >
> >He means the .pw TLD he was using.
>
> Oh, no wonder.  I block it too.
>
> R's,
> John
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Benny Pedersen via mailop]

John Levine via mailop skrev den 2023-03-22 16:53:


He means the .pw TLD he was using.


Oh, no wonder.  I block it too.


so you have none ham mail now from pw tld ? :)

with is funny so you can still say pw is spam only !
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[John Levine via mailop]

It appears that fh--- via mailop  said:
>On 2023-03-22 12:19, Scott Undercofler wrote:
>> Like .tk and .ml that are free?
>> 
>
>He means the .pw TLD he was using.

Oh, no wonder.  I block it too.

R's,
John
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[fh--- via mailop]

On 2023-03-22 12:19, Scott Undercofler wrote:

Like .tk and .ml that are free?



He means the .pw TLD he was using.
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Scott Undercofler via mailop]

Like .tk and .ml that are free? Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 21, 2023, at 10:09 PM, Frost The Fox via mailop  wrote:I have heard of domains that were quite popular for spamming like xyz/info being outright blocked. My domain is completely blocked by Comcast without having ever successfully sent mail to them. I'm guessing in that case it is the TLD, as the domain had been registered for a couple years or so before I noticed.On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:58 PM Scott Undercofler via mailop  wrote:This is kinda a deep question. IMO, the short answer is yes. Many receivers flat block or severely restrict sketch TLDs. I’d say there are exceptions (.bank, which is monitored) you do gain an advantage with common TLDs. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2023, at 7:28 PM, fh--- via mailop  wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> Does sender domain itself have influence on delivery reputation? is new domain worse than old one? and xyz/info/pub/... domains worse than .com one?
> 
> Thanks
> corey
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Frost The Fox via mailop]

I have heard of domains that were quite popular for spamming like xyz/info
being outright blocked. My domain is completely blocked by Comcast without
having ever successfully sent mail to them. I'm guessing in that case it is
the TLD, as the domain had been registered for a couple years or so before
I noticed.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:58 PM Scott Undercofler via mailop <
mailop@mailop.org> wrote:

> This is kinda a deep question. IMO, the short answer is yes. Many
> receivers flat block or severely restrict sketch TLDs. I’d say there are
> exceptions (.bank, which is monitored) you do gain an advantage with common
> TLDs.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 21, 2023, at 7:28 PM, fh--- via mailop  wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > Does sender domain itself have influence on delivery reputation? is new
> domain worse than old one? and xyz/info/pub/... domains worse than .com one?
> >
> > Thanks
> > corey
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Re: [mailop] sender domain reputation

[Scott Undercofler via mailop]

This is kinda a deep question. IMO, the short answer is yes. Many receivers 
flat block or severely restrict sketch TLDs. I’d say there are exceptions 
(.bank, which is monitored) you do gain an advantage with common TLDs. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 21, 2023, at 7:28 PM, fh--- via mailop  wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> Does sender domain itself have influence on delivery reputation? is new 
> domain worse than old one? and xyz/info/pub/... domains worse than .com one?
> 
> Thanks
> corey
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[mailop] sender domain reputation

[fh--- via mailop]

Hello

Does sender domain itself have influence on delivery reputation? is new 
domain worse than old one? and xyz/info/pub/... domains worse than .com 
one?


Thanks
corey
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