Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Hi again > Unless Orange is performing object and link scanning / safety checks making > the recipients seem alive (to euromsg at least Never seen this kind of behavior from Orange. Could be happening from one of their security vendors but on several hundreds of emails ? seems highly unlikely. On our end, for the last 4 hours I see around 1500 bounces from Orange, with soft and hard bounces alike. Most hard bounces are first time sendings, and the other ones do not show any recent activity. I'd again advise to reach out to their postmaster team to ask them to check on this if they can. Mathieu -Message d'origine- De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de Mark Milhollan Envoyé : jeudi 5 juillet 2018 15:53 À : mailop Objet : Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, David Hofstee wrote: >- You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients >download images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate). >Conclusion: Recipients are real and active. >- The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce Unless Orange is performing object and link scanning / safety checks making the recipients seem alive (to euromsg at least), but later the accounts are disabled or closed for whatever reasons. (Even exclusive of aliveness, just not rejected last time but some rejected now.) Or not all but enough that after some number of unknown recipient rejects Orange's MTA shifts to bouncing everything (for a while). /mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, David Hofstee wrote: >- You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download >images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate). >Conclusion: Recipients are real and active. >- The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce Unless Orange is performing object and link scanning / safety checks making the recipients seem alive (to euromsg at least), but later the accounts are disabled or closed for whatever reasons. (Even exclusive of aliveness, just not rejected last time but some rejected now.) Or not all but enough that after some number of unknown recipient rejects Orange's MTA shifts to bouncing everything (for a while). /mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Hi Orange is an ISP and as far as I can remember, they do not provide free mail address. When people are shutting down their internet account, Orange is asking them to take necessary measures to also shut down the mailbox. Mailbox will stay accessible for 6 months and then shut down Source : https://assistance.orange.fr/assistance-commerciale/la-gestion-de-vos-offres-et-options/resilier-votre-offre/les-conseils-avant-de-resilier-votre-messagerie-mail-orange_71178-72015 Could it be that some people just don't take necessary action regarding their mailbox when moving from an ISP to another ? Best regards Florent - - - - - FLORENT DESTORS DELIVERABILITY CONSULTANT direct +33 1 44 68 10 78 mobile +33 6 13 20 61 16 email florent.dest...@selligent.com SELLIGENT MARKETING CLOUD CONSUMER-FIRST MARKETING www.selligent.com The information contained in this communication is confidential and is only for the use of the intended addressee. If you have received this communication in error, please destroy it immediately, including all attachments. -Message d'origine- De : mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] De la part de mailop-requ...@mailop.org Envoyé : jeudi 5 juillet 2018 15:04 À : mailop@mailop.org Objet : mailop Digest, Vol 129, Issue 3 Send mailop mailing list submissions to mailop@mailop.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mailop-requ...@mailop.org You can reach the person managing the list at mailop-ow...@mailop.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of mailop digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Benoit Panizzon) 2. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Philip Paeps) 3. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Suresh Ramasubramanian) 4. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Mathieu Bourdin) 5. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (David Hofstee) 6. Re: Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces (Emre Üst |euro.message|) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 13:23:29 +0200 From: Benoit Panizzon To: "Emre Üst |euro.message|" Cc: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: <20180705132329.72e5f...@go.imp.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Erme I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what recipient was invalid. This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:34:17 +0200 From: "Philip Paeps" To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 2018-07-05 12:47:57 (+0200), Emre Üst |euro.message| wrote: > Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? > Our client's recipients went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't > understand why suddenly their email become invalid, people that are > actually quite active. Opening and clicking on the NL. > > Could it be closing themselves ? The errors you quote translate to "user unknown". Perhaps the recipients closed their accounts? Or stopped paying their bills and their mailboxes were shut down? Continuing to send mail to mailboxes that bounce hard is unlikely to do your reputation much good! Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Ministry of Information -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:21:18 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Benoit Panizzon , "Emre Üst |euro.message|" Cc: mailop@mailop.org Subject: Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" For a 1990s throwback, here is the website fo
Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Hi Emre, My 5xx bounce rate is around 0.2% for these domains. The domains have not gone inactive. Some spam filters reply with such 5xx errors to fend off spam. I haven't seen that @orange yet (but a large Belgium provider does it infrequently). @Philip (and Mathieu): The point that Emre is making is: - You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate). Conclusion: Recipients are real and active. - The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce and are deactivated on his lists due to a "550 5.1.1 Adresse d au moins un destinataire invalide. Invalid recipient. OFR_416 [416]"... Across all customers. That is not how normal recipients, people, stop using their email accounts. Not at such rates. Some other process is going on. One would like to find out what happened. He is asking himself if the domain has gone out of business (which is not the case). Yours, David On 5 July 2018 at 13:51, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver > > http://www.xmailserver.org/ > > On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" < > mailop-boun...@mailop.org on behalf of benoit.paniz...@imp.ch> wrote: > > Hi Erme > > I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something > sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. > > That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid > recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' > has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what > recipient was invalid. > > This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send > emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. > > If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass > unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. > > So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? > > Mit freundlichen Grüssen > > -Benoît Panizzon- > -- > I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden > __ > > Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 > CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 > Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch > __ > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > > > > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop > -- -- My opinion is mine. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
For a 1990s throwback, here is the website for xmailserver http://www.xmailserver.org/ On 05/07/18, 4:56 PM, "mailop on behalf of Benoit Panizzon" wrote: Hi Erme I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what recipient was invalid. This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
On 2018-07-05 12:47:57 (+0200), Emre Üst |euro.message| wrote: Is there anything wrong on Orange.fr and wanadoo.fr domains lately ? Our client's recipients went to Hard Bounces. I actually don't understand why suddenly their email become invalid, people that are actually quite active. Opening and clicking on the NL. Could it be closing themselves ? The errors you quote translate to "user unknown". Perhaps the recipients closed their accounts? Or stopped paying their bills and their mailboxes were shut down? Continuing to send mail to mailboxes that bounce hard is unlikely to do your reputation much good! Philip -- Philip Paeps Senior Reality Engineer Ministry of Information ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces
Hi Erme I've seen similar problems with ISP using, as I recall, something sounding like 'xmailserver' as SMTP Server. That Server has a very serious bug, instead of rejecting invalid recipients during the 'rcpt to' handshake, it does this after 'data' has been initiated by issuing a human readable message telling what recipient was invalid. This of course breaks all mailing lists or newsletter tools which send emails to as many recipients as possible to lower resource consumption. If one destination address becomes invalid, this leads to mass unsubscription of valid email addresses on tools like mailman. So Maybe France Telecom switched to such a mailserver? Mit freundlichen Grüssen -Benoît Panizzon- -- I m p r o W a r e A G-Leiter Commerce Kunden __ Zurlindenstrasse 29 Tel +41 61 826 93 00 CH-4133 PrattelnFax +41 61 826 93 01 Schweiz Web http://www.imp.ch __ ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop