Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
At 08:17 PM 4/27/02 +0100, Leofranc Holford-Strevens wrote: (Suppose for instance that the wink theory could somehow be made to stand up, why should Vergil wish to play that game?) This is a fair question. There are, it seems to me, two reasons to argue for the wink theory: 1. You don't like the alternate, empire-as-nightmare theory but falsa insomnia sounds sinister so you find a benign way of reading it. 2. You know that Virgil's contemporaries sometimes resorted to allegory in order to rationalize the objectionable bits in Homer: not just the immorality of the gods, but the marvellous in general. You think that Virgil was trying to write a poem in the Homeric mode, and in this period that means allegory. For examples, see the first chapter of Michael Murrin, Allegorical Epic (Chicago, 1980). --- David Wilson-Okamurahttp://virgil.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Macalester College Virgil Tradition: discussion, bibliography, c. --- --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
x-htmlHTMLBODY STYLE=font:10pt verdana; border:none;DIVThat Aeneas is associated with false dreams, I also believe cannot be denied.nbsp; Is this not just one more example of Vergil's penchant for undercutting a scene fraught with promise/DIV DIVfor Rome's (Aeneas') great destiny with a note of discord?nbsp; Why does the golden bough/DIV DIVhesitate (cunctantem, VI, 211) when the hero grabs it?nbsp; Why does the parade of heroes conclude with the sad fate of Marcellus?nbsp; Is it not that the notion of empire and what is required to create it rests upon: the sacrifice of young men; rulers and generals whose personas are flawed and imperfect; and the dissemination of not necessarily true propaganda if it furthers the ends of power?/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVDenise D-Henry, AP Teacher/DIV DIVBishop Watterson HS/DIV DIVColumbus, OHio/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV BLOCKQUOTE style=BORDER-LEFT: #00 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px DIV style=FONT: 10pt Arial- Original Message -/DIV DIV style=BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt ArialBFrom:/B Jim O'Hara/DIV DIV style=FONT: 10pt ArialBSent:/B Friday, April 26, 2002 12:34 PM/DIV DIV style=FONT: 10pt ArialBTo:/B [EMAIL PROTECTED]/DIV DIV style=FONT: 10pt ArialBSubject:/B Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIVBRBRJames Butrica wrote:BRBRgt;BRgt; The other gate is explicitly the exit for uerae umbrae: Aeneas is not aBRgt; uera umbra or any kind of umbra at all, and presumably therefore cannotBRgt; take this route and must therefore take the only alternative.BRBRI've never understood this argument.nbsp; What is it about the gate of true dreamsBRthat means that ONLY true dreams can go through it, while the gate of false dreamsBRis such that non-dreams can go through it?nbsp; Didn't Aeneas cross the river in aBRboat made only for shades?BRBRBRgt; While thatBRgt; other exit might be used by false dreams, Aeneas is real in this poem, notBRgt; a dream or a shade. And under what circumstances could we conceive of ManesBRgt; (which ones? all of them?) converting Aeneas from human to dream and thenBRgt; sending him out not as a true dream but as a false one?BRgt;BRBRI agree with part of the sentiment here: Aeneas is not literally changed into aBRfalse dream before using the gate (Captain, we have to reconfigure your human DNABRusing the transporter's pattern buffer before we can send you through thisBREikonian portal), because there is no statement made that only false dreams canBRuse this gate.nbsp; I repeat my claim that the only secure thing we can say is thatBRAeneas is somehow associated with false dreams.nbsp; This modest claim, that he isBRassociated with false dreams, is one I think that cannot be denied.BRBRThose who say that Aeneas is a false dream in some sense are both drawing aBRconclusion from a hint of Vergil's, and also speaking metaphorically.nbsp; OthersBRthink the false dreams with which Aeneas is associated are the visions of Rome'sBRfuture he has scene, a not unreasonable reading, one also involving a litte leap,BRsince the viewer of that future and not the future scenes themselves are sentBRthrough the gates (Zetzel in TAPA for 1989 actually discusses this reading asBRworking like a type of enallage--like a tranferred epithet)BRBR--BRJim O'HaraBRPaddison Professor of LatinBR206B Howell HallBRphone: (919) 962-7649BRfax: (919) 962-4036BRe-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]BRwww: http://www.unc.edu/~oharajBRsurface mail:BRJames J. O'HaraBRDepartment of ClassicsBRCB# 3145, 101 Howell HallBRThe University of North CarolinaBRChapel Hill, NC 27599-3145BRBRBR---BRTo leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply.BRInstead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the messageBRunsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). YouBRcan also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsubBR/BLOCKQUOTE/BODY/HTML /x-htmlFrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Apr 27 09:36:13 2002 From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Apr 26 23:36:27 2002 Received: ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by wilsonwork.com (8.11.6) id g3QNWb723524; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 23:32:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: wilsonwork.com: wilsonwk set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f X-Originating-IP: [64.24.228.57] From: Denise Davis-Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale? Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:40:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.00.0021.1900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary==_NextPart_001_0004_01C1ED5A.3BACBB60 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2002 23:32:28.0797 (UTC) FILETIME=[A11DEAD0:01C1ED7A] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-UIDL: 5mK!]D0!~+*!)~+! x-htmlHTMLBODY STYLE=font:10pt verdana; border:none;DIVI don't know if Mantovani subscribers are aware of Michael
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Butrica [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes By the way, in other traditions of catabasis, how do living mortals return from the Underworld? In the so-called Orphic Catabasis of P. Bon. 4, the last legible letters, a few lines from the end of the poem, are sigma kappa alpha phi, which would appear to come from either skaphion or skaphis; one would presume that this meant not 'bowl' but 'boat', suggesting that the visitor departed the same way as he had come, on Charon's skiff. As for Aeneas, what hypothesis does not run into obstacles? If the false dreams in any way represent the foreshadowings of Rome's future in Anchises' speech, how is it that his account fits well enough with standard Roman tradition? (If anything might have raised eyebrows outside the Palatium it was the lament for the young Marcellus, whose death, a setback for the project of hereditary monarchy, would hardly have been a cause for grief amongst those who still harboured republican sentiments.) If the idea is that military glory etc. are in some way a false path, then why didn't Augustus let the _Aeneid_ be destroyed in accordance with the poet's own wishes? (Or are we robust enough to declare the whole tale of the violated _fideicommissum_ a fiction?) If anything at all can be saved of the self-referential theory, it would have to be based on the fuzzy logic of dreams: of course what I am telling you is a myth, for the Muses know how to tell lies that resemble truth (Hesiod, _Theogony_ 27). In the cold light of day, or prose paraphrase, that cannot withstand the arguments that Jim O'Hara has deployed; does that mean it is false, or that that is not the light to view it in? As Jim says, Aeneas is somehow associated with false dreams; that 'somehow' must, one presumes, be rather more than the fact of leaving by the same gate, as if anyone who left Rome by (say) the Porta Capena were an associate or confederate of everyone else who did so. But precisely how. or are we not allowed to ask precisely? And if ever we know how, then why? (Suppose for instance that the wink theory could somehow be made to stand up, why should Vergil wish to play that game?) Leofranc Holford-Strevens *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Leofranc Holford-Strevens 67 St Bernard's Road usque adeone Oxford scire MEVM nihil est, nisi ME scire hoc sciat alter? OX2 6EJ tel. +44 (0)1865 552808(home)/353865(work) fax +44 (0)1865 512237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
I'll have to think about these, but your timing couldn't be more perfect as we race to the upper airs and through that proverbial ivory gate at the end of L. VI and the school year. So, I have a piggy back question--The line-up in the Underworld of souls to be recycled into great Romans seems to smack of reincarnation. Does this appear in any other Roman writings either literary or religious? Thanks for any feedback. Jane David Wilson-Okamura [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4/26 1:22a Dear Mantovani, I wish I could take credit for the snappy title of this query, but I pretty much ripped it off from an article by a very good friend (who is also a very good cook), Radcliffe Edmonds III. Several years ago, Martin Hughes kicked off a discussion of the Gates of Sleep, to which we have returned only sporadically. My own reading of the episode is benign and follows Servius: Aeneas exits through the gate of falsa insomnia not because the Roman Empire is a nightmare, but because the underworld journey is a fiction: in real life, nobody goes to hell and lives to tell about it. On this reading, the ivory gate is the literary equivalent of a wink. There's lots more to be said about this, and there are smart people who think differently about this. Several weeks ago, however, I was reading through the poem as a whole and was especially struck by the following description of Latinus when he goes into the forest in order to get advice about his daughter: At rex sollicitus monstris oracula Fauni, fatidici genitoris, adit lucosque sub alta consulit Albunea, nemorum quae maxima sacro fonte sonat saeuamue exhalat opaca mephitim. hinc Italae gentes omnisque Oenotria tellus in dubiis responsa petunt; huc dona sacerdos cum tulit et caesarum ouium sub nocte silenti pellibus incubuit stratis somnosque petiuit, multa modis simulacra uidet uolitantia miris et uarias audit uoces fruiturque deorum conloquio atque imis Acheronta adfatur Auernis. hic et tum pater ipse petens responsa Latinus (Aen. 7.81-92) Worried by the omens, the king goes to the oracles of Faunus, his fate-telling father; in the shadow of Albunea, he consults the groves, the great forest that sounds of the sacred river and exhales a raw stench in the darkness. Here the tribes of Italy and all the realms of Oenotria seek out answers in times of doubt; here the priest would bring gifts and lie down on the skins of slaughtered sheep, under the silent night, and seek dreams. Many he shapes he sees, floating in strange ways; various voices he hears; he enjoys the conversation of the gods; he speaks to Acheron in the depths of Avernus. Here too comes father Latinus, in search of answers... This passage is striking for several reasons: 1. It's clear that Latinus speaks to Acheron without actually going to Avernus; although he enjoys the conversation of the gods and sees strange shapes, he is in fact in the forest, sleeping on an animal skin. 2. What produces these dreams? Fordyce, in his commentary on Aen. VII and VIII, notes that the practice of incubation was well known in the ancient world; I don't know whether or not incubation usually involved the inhalation of volcanic vapors, but Virgil does mention that the sight smells bad: saeuamue exhalat opaca mephitim. Why is this important? Because according to Plutarch, the oracle at Delphi regularly prophesied under the influence of volcanic exhalations. (Until recently, there weren't thought to be any volcanic rifts in the area and Plutarch's theory was discounted; recently the site has been reexamined and it turns out that there is a fault line; this doesn't prove Plutarch right, but it does make his account more credible.) 3. The forest of Albunea (wherever that is; see Fordyce on Aen. 7.82f) is not, of course, the only place that people congregate in order to speak to Acheron. You can also visit the infernal river by way of a cave at Cumae: a cave, says Virgil, that is notorious for driving the birds away because it smells bad: talis sese halitus atris faucibus effundens supera ad conuexa ferebat [unde locum Grai dixerunt nomine Aornum.] (Aen. 6.240-42) such is the vapor that pours out of those dark jaws and carries up to the round of the sky;; wherefore the Greeks had called the place by the name of birdless. What seems to draw the attention of the commentators on this passage is the etymology in l. 242: (a) is it false (yes) and (b) should we really attribute the line to Virgil (no). What grabs me, though, is the fact that Aeneas, like Latinus, converses with the dead under the influence of bad air. I haven't been to Cumae myself, but the cave of the sibyl figures prominently in a recent episode of The Sopranos, in which Tony
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
I'll have to think about these, but your timing couldn't be more perfect as we race to the upper airs and through that proverbial ivory gate at the end of L. VI and the school year. So, I have a piggy back question--The line-up in the Underworld of souls to be recycled into great Romans seems to smack of reincarnation. Does this appear in any other Roman writings either literary or religious? Thanks for any feedback. Jane The obvious passage is the speech of Pythagoras in Ovid, *Metamorphoses* 14.75-478, which surveys such Pythagorean topics as vegetarianism and reincarnation. James Lawrence Peter Butrica Department of Classics The Memorial University of Newfoundland St. John's, Newfoundland A1C 5S7 (709) 737-7914 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
David's suggestion of a connection between the bad air of Albunea and that of Lake Avernus is fascinating, and worth pursuing. But I hope I don't rouse hippothanatophobia (fear of a man beating a dead horse--can someone make that Greek more elegant?) by picking up on part of his introductory comments, the suggestion that Aeneas exits through the gate of falsa insomnia not because the Roman Empire is a nightmare, but because the underworld journey is a fiction: in real life, nobody goes to hell and lives to tell about it. On this reading, the ivory gate is the literary equivalent of a wink. This is attractive in many ways, but problematic in how it deals both with the Homeric model from which Vergil draws the notion of the gates, and witb the flow of Vergil's Latin. Latin first. David's notion requires that falsa mean fictional but not deceptive, false, or untrue in terms of underlying content. But in the lines: altera candenti perfecta nitens elephanto, 895 sed falsa ad caelum mittunt insomnia Manes. this reading is hard to square with sed. The gate of falsa insomnia is said to be shining and gleaming, BUT it sends falsa insomnia. I don't see how fictional but true dreams would be sufficiently adversative to the shining ivory. I'd expect the gate is shiny, AND sends fictional (but true) dreams. There is no such problem with the gate is shiny, BUT sends false/deceptive/lying dreams. Homer next: Penelope in Odyssey 19 dreams of a eagle that has killed her geese, which then speaks to her and says it's her husband, who has come home to kill the suitors. Penelope then says there are two gates of dreams, one for false dreams, one for true dreams, and she says she fears her dream is a false dream. Does this mean she thinks it's fitcional, but basically true, as in David's reading of Vergil's falsa insomnia? I don't think so: since eagles don't talk to women much in real life, it's clear that her dream is fictional, but by false she means that what the dream says will not come true: that her husband will not come home to kill the suitors. If she thought her dream was fictional (talking eagle) but had valid content (O will come home), surely she would have called it a true dream. So I can't get myself to accept reading falsa insomnia as fictional dreams the truth value of whose content is not being called into question. Falsa insomnia are dreams that do not say true things, in Homer and I think in Vergil. What this means for Vergil is not easy to say. Certainly Aeneas is in some way associated with false dreams. Exactly how he is is not really specified. Sorry to be wordy; it's hard to be concise in haste. -- Jim O'Hara Paddison Professor of Latin 206B Howell Hall phone: (919) 962-7649 fax: (919) 962-4036 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.unc.edu/~oharaj surface mail: James J. O'Hara Department of Classics CB# 3145, 101 Howell Hall The University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3145 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
Jane Ebersole wrote (in part) of Aeneid 6: The line-up in the Underworld of souls to be recycled into great Romans seems to smack of reincarnation. Does this appear in any other Roman writings either literary or religious? Ennius apparently claimed to have been, in previous lives, both the poet Homer and a peacock. I don't have the Ennius quotes handy, but Horace makes some reference to this in the _Epistulae_. Ennius, et sapiens et fortis et alter Homerus, ut critici dicunt, leuiter curare uidetur quo promissa cadant et somnia Pythagorea. --Horace Epist. 2.1.50-52 David Wilson-Okamura earlier wrote (in part): I'm not the first person to suggest that Aeneas goes to the underworld in a dream; more than one person has pointed out that the entrance to Hades is guarded by a black elm tree that has somnia...uana hanging in its branches (Aen. 6.283-84). What I'm suggesting here is that what Virgil says darkly in book 6 he says more openly at the beginning of book 7. To put it more plainly, the fume-induced vision that Latinus has in Aen. 7.81f is the same kind of experience that Aeneas has in book 6. The difference is that what happens to Aeneas is described allegorically, in mythological terms, and the vision of Latinus is described directly, in what I will call (for lack of a better term) anthropological terms. Dreams and the underworld have a long-standing association, so I don't think the presence of _somnia vana_ need mark the experience of Aeneas himself as a dream. I'm inclined to agree with DWO's interpretation of the close of Book VI (the ivory gate passage)-- that Virgil is winking at the audience, saying I know this can't happen and so do you, but this is the story I'm telling. For that reason I think DWO's notion that the whole underworld journey is a dream of Aeneas is rather jarringly naturalistic. It seems to imply that there is a real Aeneas in the _Aeneid_, apart from the one Vergil is telling us about, and that we can get at what is actually happening to him. I'd rather take the deliberately naive position that what Vergil says is happening to Aeneas is actually happening to him (within the limits of Vergil's fictional world), though of course this doesn't bar the interpretation that Aeneas' journey is an allegory of a nonfictional person's encounter with apparitions which suggest (pleasantly, but falsely, from Vergil's point of view) that there is a life after death. It might be interesting, though, to look at some other dream passages in the _Aeneid_ (the appearance of Hector in Book 2 for instance), and see if their borders are marked in any way that resembles the trip to the underworld. JM(Metempsychotic)P --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
James Butrica wrote: The other gate is explicitly the exit for uerae umbrae: Aeneas is not a uera umbra or any kind of umbra at all, and presumably therefore cannot take this route and must therefore take the only alternative. I've never understood this argument. What is it about the gate of true dreams that means that ONLY true dreams can go through it, while the gate of false dreams is such that non-dreams can go through it? Didn't Aeneas cross the river in a boat made only for shades? While that other exit might be used by false dreams, Aeneas is real in this poem, not a dream or a shade. And under what circumstances could we conceive of Manes (which ones? all of them?) converting Aeneas from human to dream and then sending him out not as a true dream but as a false one? I agree with part of the sentiment here: Aeneas is not literally changed into a false dream before using the gate (Captain, we have to reconfigure your human DNA using the transporter's pattern buffer before we can send you through this Eikonian portal), because there is no statement made that only false dreams can use this gate. I repeat my claim that the only secure thing we can say is that Aeneas is somehow associated with false dreams. This modest claim, that he is associated with false dreams, is one I think that cannot be denied. Those who say that Aeneas is a false dream in some sense are both drawing a conclusion from a hint of Vergil's, and also speaking metaphorically. Others think the false dreams with which Aeneas is associated are the visions of Rome's future he has scene, a not unreasonable reading, one also involving a litte leap, since the viewer of that future and not the future scenes themselves are sent through the gates (Zetzel in TAPA for 1989 actually discusses this reading as working like a type of enallage--like a tranferred epithet) -- Jim O'Hara Paddison Professor of Latin 206B Howell Hall phone: (919) 962-7649 fax: (919) 962-4036 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.unc.edu/~oharaj surface mail: James J. O'Hara Department of Classics CB# 3145, 101 Howell Hall The University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3145 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
James Butrica wrote: The other gate is explicitly the exit for uerae umbrae: Aeneas is not a uera umbra or any kind of umbra at all, and presumably therefore cannot take this route and must therefore take the only alternative. I've never understood this argument. What is it about the gate of true dreams that means that ONLY true dreams can go through it, while the gate of false dreams is such that non-dreams can go through it? Didn't Aeneas cross the river in a boat made only for shades? Jim O'Hara Paddison Professor of Latin Department of Classics CB# 3145, 101 Howell Hall The University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3145 What it is is that Virgil *says* that this gate is the one by which true shades find easy exit; if we want, we can read this to imply that true shades perhaps find difficult exit through other portals, but I think that interpretation starts to become seriously imperilled when we assume things that Virgil does *not* say, such as that anything we want other than a true shade can exit this way. Living mortals do not return from the undiscovered country; Aeneas must return, however, and must return somehow. If this exit is for true shades only, and there are only two exits, he must use the other one, whatever its primary purpose. In addition, I wonder what the justification is for treating the umbrae here as dreams rather than shades of the dead -- other than the desire to create a perfect parallelism with the later *insomnia* (of course under the influence of the true/false contrast). An *umbra* of someone in the sense of *simulacrum* can certainly appear *in* a dream, but neither I nor the OLD knows examples where umbra = dream. By the way, in other traditions of catabasis, how do living mortals return from the Underworld? To the best of my knowledge, no-one else is given this sort of exit, not Orpheus, not Hercules, not Odysseus, so it might be a case of Virgil trying to adapt the lines from the *Odyssey* into a new and somewhat inapposite context, and not succeeding to everyone's satisfaction. In addition, it is possible to read these lines as implying that both Aeneas and the Sibyl exit through this portal (natum ... unaque Sibyllam is the object of both prosequitur and emittit, with Anchises as subject), though Virgil does not tell us exactly where the Sibyl went (one assumes Cumae). How does passage through the gate of false dreams affect our view of her? How does it affect our interpretation that it is Anchises personally who sends both of them through? It is at a point like this that I usually begin to draw back from the madness-inducing difficulty of trying to figure out exactly what Virgil means and try to comfort myself with the lack of final polishing as the legitimate cause of my aporia ... James Lawrence Peter Butrica Department of Classics The Memorial University of Newfoundland St. John's, Newfoundland A1C 5S7 (709) 737-7914 --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
Re: VIRGIL: Did Aeneas inhale?
Multas gratias! Vale ut valeas. --- To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do NOT hit reply. Instead, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You can also unsubscribe at http://virgil.org/mantovano/mantovano.htm#unsub
