[mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Rahkonen Jukka (MML)]

Hi,

Recent Mapserver buids require PROJ and GDAL 
https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ja/development/rfc/ms-rfc-127.html. That means 
that every Mapserver can support PROJECTION blocks both at the MAP level and 
within LAYER. And because there are no more builds without Proj support there 
is no real need for writing mapfiles without PROJECTION blocks. Therefore I 
suggest that such mapfiles should be considered invalid in the future. If it is 
for some reason too strict requirement, what if we at least edit the 
documentation https://mapserver.org/mapfile/projection.html so that it really 
encourages users to write the PROJECTION blocks. GetCapabilities could also 
show something like


Having layers without PROJECTION saves users from writing this much text:
"PROJECTION "init=epsg:3857" END
but when the user meets any problem with accessing data or rendering the first 
thing to check is the projection. In the mailing list it means one more 
question-answer round before getting closer to the real problem - if the 
problem was not in the projection, as it very often is.

If source data are in local coordinate system it would be better to define also 
that explicitly with a special keyword like PROJECTION "LOCAL".

Would other user consider making projection compulsory rather as an improvement 
or inconvenience?

-Jukka Rahkonen-
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Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Jeff McKenna]

Hi Jukka,

I personally consider defining PROJECTION blocks at the MAP level and 
all LAYERs mandatory, in my day-to-day work, for each and every mapfile. 
 If you do not specify all of these, MapServer makes assumptions and 
you are just asking for trouble downstream through WMS clients etc. 
(your users)


I also do not rely on any PROJECTION AUTO magic either, for my paying 
clients.


These are all nice tricks but in critical production environments I stay 
away from them; instead, find the source projection, and define the MAP 
projection block and all LAYER projection blocks.


I'm not sure this answers your questions, but this was my 'gut reaction' 
to your message.  I believe we have the same thinking here.


-jeff



--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services
https://gatewaygeo.com/



On 2020-04-27 10:36 a.m., Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:

Hi,

Recent Mapserver buids require PROJ and GDAL 
https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ja/development/rfc/ms-rfc-127.html. That 
means that every Mapserver can support PROJECTION blocks both at the MAP 
level and within LAYER. And because there are no more builds without 
Proj support there is no real need for writing mapfiles without 
PROJECTION blocks. Therefore I suggest that such mapfiles should be 
considered invalid in the future. If it is for some reason too strict 
requirement, what if we at least edit the documentation 
https://mapserver.org/mapfile/projection.html so that it really 
encourages users to write the PROJECTION blocks. GetCapabilities could 
also show something like



Having layers without PROJECTION saves users from writing this much text:

“PROJECTION "init=epsg:3857" END

but when the user meets any problem with accessing data or rendering the 
first thing to check is the projection. In the mailing list it means one 
more question-answer round before getting closer to the real problem – 
if the problem was not in the projection, as it very often is.


If source data are in local coordinate system it would be better to 
define also that explicitly with a special keyword like PROJECTION “LOCAL”.


Would other user consider making projection compulsory rather as an 
improvement or inconvenience?


-Jukka Rahkonen-


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[mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

[Fran Acuña Parra]

Hi,

Following the topic about another question that I sent, I'm using a
Getfeature WFS request with a DWITHIN spatial filter to returns the closes
feature of a layer given some specific coordinates. The request works fine,
but when there are several features that match the filter it doesn't
returns the closest one in the first position of the response(GML for
example). Is there a way to achieve this?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Fran Acuña
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Re: [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

[Rahkonen Jukka (MML)]

Hi,

The DWithin function in WFS is a true/false function just like the equivalent 
PostGIS function https://postgis.net/docs/ST_DWithin.html. You can’t find the 
nearest feature with DWithin. A not so good workaround is to increase the 
distance until the result is not empty.

Mapserver does not have a vendor specific function for nearest either like 
Geotools/Geoserver. Especially the pgnearest function that works with PostGIS 
backend and returns n nearest features would be practical for your use case  
https://docs.geotools.org/stable/userguide/library/main/function_list.html.  
Geotools should also have a similar function for Oracle that is using the 
native SDO_NN function.

Unfortunately I can’t say how to proceed for making nearest or nearestN queries 
with Mapserver.

-Jukka Rahkonen-

Lähettäjä: mapserver-users  Puolesta 
Fran Acuña Parra
Lähetetty: maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 16.59
Vastaanottaja: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Aihe: [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

Hi,

Following the topic about another question that I sent, I'm using a Getfeature 
WFS request with a DWITHIN spatial filter to returns the closes feature of a 
layer given some specific coordinates. The request works fine, but when there 
are several features that match the filter it doesn't returns the closest one 
in the first position of the response(GML for example). Is there a way to 
achieve this?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Fran Acuña
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Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Steve Lime]

I would prefer to pursue as a documentation/communication exercise first.
It's not that I don't agree that PROJECTION blocks are generally
recommended but making them required and introducing artificial projections
to deal with cases when projections aren't used (embedded legends, scale
bars and other static map elements) will touch a lot of code. It's also a
major breaking change that would potentially break a large percentage of
mapfiles going forward.

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff McKenna 
wrote:

> Hi Jukka,
>
> I personally consider defining PROJECTION blocks at the MAP level and
> all LAYERs mandatory, in my day-to-day work, for each and every mapfile.
>   If you do not specify all of these, MapServer makes assumptions and
> you are just asking for trouble downstream through WMS clients etc.
> (your users)
>
> I also do not rely on any PROJECTION AUTO magic either, for my paying
> clients.
>
> These are all nice tricks but in critical production environments I stay
> away from them; instead, find the source projection, and define the MAP
> projection block and all LAYER projection blocks.
>
> I'm not sure this answers your questions, but this was my 'gut reaction'
> to your message.  I believe we have the same thinking here.
>
> -jeff
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff McKenna
> MapServer Consulting and Training Services
> https://gatewaygeo.com/
>
>
>
> On 2020-04-27 10:36 a.m., Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Recent Mapserver buids require PROJ and GDAL
> > https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ja/development/rfc/ms-rfc-127.html. That
> > means that every Mapserver can support PROJECTION blocks both at the MAP
> > level and within LAYER. And because there are no more builds without
> > Proj support there is no real need for writing mapfiles without
> > PROJECTION blocks. Therefore I suggest that such mapfiles should be
> > considered invalid in the future. If it is for some reason too strict
> > requirement, what if we at least edit the documentation
> > https://mapserver.org/mapfile/projection.html so that it really
> > encourages users to write the PROJECTION blocks. GetCapabilities could
> > also show something like
> > 
> >
> > Having layers without PROJECTION saves users from writing this much text:
> >
> > “PROJECTION "init=epsg:3857" END
> >
> > but when the user meets any problem with accessing data or rendering the
> > first thing to check is the projection. In the mailing list it means one
> > more question-answer round before getting closer to the real problem –
> > if the problem was not in the projection, as it very often is.
> >
> > If source data are in local coordinate system it would be better to
> > define also that explicitly with a special keyword like PROJECTION
> “LOCAL”.
> >
> > Would other user consider making projection compulsory rather as an
> > improvement or inconvenience?
> >
> > -Jukka Rahkonen-
> >
> >
> > ___
> > mapserver-users mailing list
> > mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users
> >
>
>
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Re: [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

[Steve Lime]

To be clear, Fran - are you saying the issue isn't the result set rather
the order? If so I don't know of a way to affect that order.

In terms of a nearest feature or features. This would be something that I
would be keen on addressing. I've run into a variant of this issue using
the CGI and mode=query when searching multiple layers. The query finds the
first matching feature but not necessarily the closest. It's an issue
primarily with line and point layers when you need to set TOLERANCE values
to make things clickable. Jukka, what does the vendor specific extension in
GeoServer look like from WFS filter standpoint?

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 10:21 AM Rahkonen Jukka (MML) <
jukka.rahko...@maanmittauslaitos.fi> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> The DWithin function in WFS is a true/false function just like the
> equivalent PostGIS function https://postgis.net/docs/ST_DWithin.html. You
> can’t find the nearest feature with DWithin. A not so good workaround is to
> increase the distance until the result is not empty.
>
>
>
> Mapserver does not have a vendor specific function for nearest either like
> Geotools/Geoserver. Especially the pgnearest function that works with
> PostGIS backend and returns n nearest features would be practical for your
> use case
> https://docs.geotools.org/stable/userguide/library/main/function_list.html.
> Geotools should also have a similar function for Oracle that is using the
> native SDO_NN function.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I can’t say how to proceed for making nearest or nearestN
> queries with Mapserver.
>
>
>
> -Jukka Rahkonen-
>
>
>
> *Lähettäjä:* mapserver-users  
> *Puolesta
> *Fran Acuña Parra
> *Lähetetty:* maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 16.59
> *Vastaanottaja:* mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
> *Aihe:* [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter
> DWITHIN
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Following the topic about another question that I sent, I'm using a
> Getfeature WFS request with a DWITHIN spatial filter to returns the closes
> feature of a layer given some specific coordinates. The request works fine,
> but when there are several features that match the filter it doesn't
> returns the closest one in the first position of the response(GML for
> example). Is there a way to achieve this?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Fran Acuña
> ___
> mapserver-users mailing list
> mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users
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Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)]

All,

I can second Steve’s idea.  We were using Mapserver for years before we needed 
to pay attention to projections, because all of our data wasin our local 
coordinate system.   We now work projection across all map services for all 
layers, either by explicitly stating the projection or having it scripted at 
the web server call.  Some cases it won’t matter, if ever, and others it will 
be instrumental in getting a site working with many and varied projected 
datasets being combined.

I would agree that it should be a topic more prominently displayed/noted in the 
documentation.

Bobb


From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
Steve Lime
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:21 PM
To: Jeff McKenna 
Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

Think Before You Click: This email originated outside our organization.

I would prefer to pursue as a documentation/communication exercise first. It's 
not that I don't agree that PROJECTION blocks are generally recommended but 
making them required and introducing artificial projections to deal with cases 
when projections aren't used (embedded legends, scale bars and other static map 
elements) will touch a lot of code. It's also a major breaking change that 
would potentially break a large percentage of mapfiles going forward.

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff McKenna 
mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
Hi Jukka,

I personally consider defining PROJECTION blocks at the MAP level and
all LAYERs mandatory, in my day-to-day work, for each and every mapfile.
  If you do not specify all of these, MapServer makes assumptions and
you are just asking for trouble downstream through WMS clients etc.
(your users)

I also do not rely on any PROJECTION AUTO magic either, for my paying
clients.

These are all nice tricks but in critical production environments I stay
away from them; instead, find the source projection, and define the MAP
projection block and all LAYER projection blocks.

I'm not sure this answers your questions, but this was my 'gut reaction'
to your message.  I believe we have the same thinking here.

-jeff



--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services
https://gatewaygeo.com/



On 2020-04-27 10:36 a.m., Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Recent Mapserver buids require PROJ and GDAL
> https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ja/development/rfc/ms-rfc-127.html. That
> means that every Mapserver can support PROJECTION blocks both at the MAP
> level and within LAYER. And because there are no more builds without
> Proj support there is no real need for writing mapfiles without
> PROJECTION blocks. Therefore I suggest that such mapfiles should be
> considered invalid in the future. If it is for some reason too strict
> requirement, what if we at least edit the documentation
> https://mapserver.org/mapfile/projection.html so that it really
> encourages users to write the PROJECTION blocks. GetCapabilities could
> also show something like
> 
>
> Having layers without PROJECTION saves users from writing this much text:
>
> “PROJECTION "init=epsg:3857" END
>
> but when the user meets any problem with accessing data or rendering the
> first thing to check is the projection. In the mailing list it means one
> more question-answer round before getting closer to the real problem –
> if the problem was not in the projection, as it very often is.
>
> If source data are in local coordinate system it would be better to
> define also that explicitly with a special keyword like PROJECTION “LOCAL”.
>
> Would other user consider making projection compulsory rather as an
> improvement or inconvenience?
>
> -Jukka Rahkonen-
>
>
> ___
> mapserver-users mailing list
> mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/mapserver-users
>


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[mapserver-users] NOTICE: May 13, 2020 - OSGeo Local Chapter Virtual Meeting (aka TCMUG)

[Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)]

All,

So, the last meeting was interesting in that we went virtual with it for the 
first time.  All in all it worked out very well.  We even had a few out of 
towners show up. We presented a couple of short presentations that seemed to be 
of interest to the group based on the questions raised.

Operator error (on my part) prevented me from recording anything from the last 
meeting, I forgot to hit the record button, so no pictures , not even a 
screenshot.   I'll attempt to do better this time around.  We can still add a 
second presentation if anyone is interested, just let me know, or raise the 
topic at the meeting

I'm liking the capabilities that Jitsi allows, but I also don't want the group 
to get bombed while a meeting is in progress.  Still learning how to best 
secure the meeting.  Until I figure out the basics on this, can I have everyone 
interested in attending send me their email address in order to send out the 
Jitsi meeting invite directly, vs announcing on the lists, which seems to be a 
no-no?  Looking into some sort of Web based distro of the invite that folks 
would need to login to.  But maybe someone out there has a better idea??


The May meeting will feature a guest speaker,

Michael Battaglia (mjbat...@mtu.edu) - 
Bio.




A blurb from Michael about the presentation:

"Coastal wetlands are a critical component of the Great Lakes ecosystem. 
Fluctuating lake levels, anthropogenic activity, and invasion by non-native 
vegetation have led to rapid changes to these valuable, yet fragile, wetland 
areas. Frequent monitoring is necessary to understand where and when changes 
are occurring, however, field visits are costly and time consuming. Techniques 
leveraging spaceborne synthetic aperture radar data enable timely remote 
monitoring of a variety of important variables, including wetland type and 
inundation extent. This talk will show methods used to generate map products 
for those parameters and share results generated with RADARSAT-2 SAR data for 
several pilot sites around the Great Lakes.

Duration: approx.. 30 min.


Meeting details:

Where: Jitsi (send email for invite)
When: 4:30 pm, May 13th, 2020.

bobb

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Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Mark Volz]

Hello,
Just to add in my two cents to this.

1) I don’t think we should have to specify a projection at the  and 
 level if they are the same as that would seem redundant to me.   
However, it should be allowed if a user wants to specify the projection at both 
levels.
2) Perhaps it would be good form (but not required) to allow "PROJECTION NONE" 
to explicitly specify to any client that the scalebar, legend, static map, etc 
is not intended to be projected onto a particular part of the earth.   

Thanks!
Sincerely,
Mark Volz, GISP

-Original Message-
From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
mapserver-users-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:28 PM
To: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: mapserver-users Digest, Vol 147, Issue 28

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Make PROJECTION mandatory? (Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul))
--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:16:52 +
From: "Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)" 
To: Steve Lime , Jeff McKenna

Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

All,

I can second Steve’s idea.  We were using Mapserver for years before we needed 
to pay attention to projections, because all of our data wasin our local 
coordinate system.   We now work projection across all map services for all 
layers, either by explicitly stating the projection or having it scripted at 
the web server call.  Some cases it won’t matter, if ever, and others it will 
be instrumental in getting a site working with many and varied projected 
datasets being combined.

I would agree that it should be a topic more prominently displayed/noted in the 
documentation.

Bobb


From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
Steve Lime
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:21 PM
To: Jeff McKenna 
Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

Think Before You Click: This email originated outside our organization.

I would prefer to pursue as a documentation/communication exercise first. It's 
not that I don't agree that PROJECTION blocks are generally recommended but 
making them required and introducing artificial projections to deal with cases 
when projections aren't used (embedded legends, scale bars and other static map 
elements) will touch a lot of code. It's also a major breaking change that 
would potentially break a large percentage of mapfiles going forward.

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff McKenna 
mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
Hi Jukka,

I personally consider defining PROJECTION blocks at the MAP level and all 
LAYERs mandatory, in my day-to-day work, for each and every mapfile.
  If you do not specify all of these, MapServer makes assumptions and you are 
just asking for trouble downstream through WMS clients etc.
(your users)

I also do not rely on any PROJECTION AUTO magic either, for my paying clients.

These are all nice tricks but in critical production environments I stay away 
from them; instead, find the source projection, and define the MAP projection 
block and all LAYER projection blocks.

I'm not sure this answers your questions, but this was my 'gut reaction'
to your message.  I believe we have the same thinking here.

-jeff



--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fgatewaygeo.com%2f&c=E,1,uRKu6N_CiiNLLVVq0e47_QXUkZM4g9vqte-aBcbYyDH1b7WnS1Ln_b1a9kqHV0iwGwOUs3KazTLN-kMthOESPP3PB65XPBsYDNo99uct63RwastB0y4d0JpRk50,&typo=1



On 2020-04-27 10:36 a.m., Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Recent Mapserver buids require PROJ and GDAL 
> https://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ja/development/rfc/ms-rfc-127.html. That 
> means that every Mapserver can support PROJECTION blocks both at the 
> MAP level and within LAYER. And because there are no more builds 
> without Proj support there is no real need for writing mapfiles 
> without P

Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Jeff McKenna]

I do look forward to approving pull requests from all of the people 
talking now of doc updates ;)  I really look forward to this.  :)  -jeff




--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services
https://gatewaygeo.com/



On 2020-04-27 5:04 p.m., Mark Volz wrote:

Hello,
Just to add in my two cents to this.

1) I don’t think we should have to specify a projection at the  and 
 level if they are the same as that would seem redundant to me.   However, it 
should be allowed if a user wants to specify the projection at both levels.
2) Perhaps it would be good form (but not required) to allow "PROJECTION NONE" 
to explicitly specify to any client that the scalebar, legend, static map, etc is not 
intended to be projected onto a particular part of the earth.

Thanks!
Sincerely,
Mark Volz, GISP

-Original Message-
From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
mapserver-users-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:28 PM
To: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: mapserver-users Digest, Vol 147, Issue 28

SWHHS/LYON/LINCOLN COUNTY SECURITY NOTICE:
This email originated from an external sender. Exercise caution before clicking 
on any links or attachments and consider whether you know the sender. For more 
information please contact IT support.


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Contents of mapserver-users digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: Make PROJECTION mandatory? (Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul))
--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:16:52 +
From: "Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)" 
To: Steve Lime , Jeff McKenna
 
Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?
Message-ID:
 


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

All,

I can second Steve’s idea.  We were using Mapserver for years before we needed 
to pay attention to projections, because all of our data wasin our local 
coordinate system.   We now work projection across all map services for all 
layers, either by explicitly stating the projection or having it scripted at 
the web server call.  Some cases it won’t matter, if ever, and others it will 
be instrumental in getting a site working with many and varied projected 
datasets being combined.

I would agree that it should be a topic more prominently displayed/noted in the 
documentation.

Bobb


From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
Steve Lime
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:21 PM
To: Jeff McKenna 
Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

Think Before You Click: This email originated outside our organization.

I would prefer to pursue as a documentation/communication exercise first. It's 
not that I don't agree that PROJECTION blocks are generally recommended but 
making them required and introducing artificial projections to deal with cases 
when projections aren't used (embedded legends, scale bars and other static map 
elements) will touch a lot of code. It's also a major breaking change that 
would potentially break a large percentage of mapfiles going forward.

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff McKenna 
mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
Hi Jukka,

I personally consider defining PROJECTION blocks at the MAP level and all 
LAYERs mandatory, in my day-to-day work, for each and every mapfile.
   If you do not specify all of these, MapServer makes assumptions and you are 
just asking for trouble downstream through WMS clients etc.
(your users)

I also do not rely on any PROJECTION AUTO magic either, for my paying clients.

These are all nice tricks but in critical production environments I stay away 
from them; instead, find the source projection, and define the MAP projection 
block and all LAYER projection blocks.

I'm not sure this answers your questions, but this was my 'gut reaction'
to your message.  I believe we have the same thinking here.

-jeff



--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fgatewaygeo.com%2f&c=E,1,uRKu6N_CiiNLLVVq0e47_QXUkZM4g9vqte-aBcbYyDH1b7WnS1Ln_b1a9kqHV0iwGwOUs3KazTLN-kMthOESPP3PB65XPBsYDNo99uct63RwastB0y4d0JpRk50,&typo=1



On 2020-04-27 10:36 a.m., Rahkonen Jukka (MML) wrote:

Hi,

Recent Mapserver buids require PROJ and GDAL
https://mapserver.

Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)]

Very subtle Jeff.  :c)

I was thinking about a "Gotcha" page in the documentation.  There a few of 
these same sort of MapServer gothchas that could be included up high in the 
docs table of contents.

Bobb



-Original Message-
From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
Jeff McKenna
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 3:30 PM
To: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

Think Before You Click: This email originated outside our organization.


I do look forward to approving pull requests from all of the people talking now 
of doc updates ;)  I really look forward to this.  :)  -jeff



--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services https://gatewaygeo.com/



On 2020-04-27 5:04 p.m., Mark Volz wrote:
> Hello,
> Just to add in my two cents to this.
>
> 1) I don’t think we should have to specify a projection at the  and 
>  level if they are the same as that would seem redundant to me.   
> However, it should be allowed if a user wants to specify the projection at 
> both levels.
> 2) Perhaps it would be good form (but not required) to allow "PROJECTION 
> NONE" to explicitly specify to any client that the scalebar, legend, static 
> map, etc is not intended to be projected onto a particular part of the earth.
>
> Thanks!
> Sincerely,
> Mark Volz, GISP
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mapserver-users  On 
> Behalf Of mapserver-users-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:28 PM
> To: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: mapserver-users Digest, Vol 147, Issue 28
>
> SWHHS/LYON/LINCOLN COUNTY SECURITY NOTICE:
> This email originated from an external sender. Exercise caution before 
> clicking on any links or attachments and consider whether you know the 
> sender. For more information please contact IT support.
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>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
> Contents of mapserver-users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Make PROJECTION mandatory? (Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul))
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:16:52 +
> From: "Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)" 
> To: Steve Lime , Jeff McKenna
>  
> Cc: Mapserver 
> Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?
> Message-ID:
>  
>  tlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> All,
>
> I can second Steve’s idea.  We were using Mapserver for years before we 
> needed to pay attention to projections, because all of our data wasin our 
> local coordinate system.   We now work projection across all map services for 
> all layers, either by explicitly stating the projection or having it scripted 
> at the web server call.  Some cases it won’t matter, if ever, and others it 
> will be instrumental in getting a site working with many and varied projected 
> datasets being combined.
>
> I would agree that it should be a topic more prominently displayed/noted in 
> the documentation.
>
> Bobb
>
>
> From: mapserver-users  On 
> Behalf Of Steve Lime
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:21 PM
> To: Jeff McKenna 
> Cc: Mapserver 
> Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?
>
> Think Before You Click: This email originated outside our organization.
>
> I would prefer to pursue as a documentation/communication exercise first. 
> It's not that I don't agree that PROJECTION blocks are generally recommended 
> but making them required and introducing artificial projections to deal with 
> cases when projections aren't used (embedded legends, scale bars and other 
> static map elements) will touch a lot of code. It's also a major breaking 
> change that would potentially break a large percentage of mapfiles going 
> forward.
>
> --Steve
>
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff McKenna 
> mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
> Hi Jukka,
>
> I personally consider defining PROJECTION blocks at the MAP level and all 
> LAYERs mandatory, in my day-to-day work, for each and every mapfile.
>If you do not specify all of these, MapServer makes assumptions and you 
> are just asking for trouble downstream through WMS clients etc.
> (your users)
>
> I also do not rely on any PROJECTION AUTO magic either, for my paying clients.
>
> These are all nice tricks 

Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

[Rahkonen Jukka (MML)]

Hi,

My point is that defaults may be fine as long as everything goes right. But 
when you need to find out what goes wrong it is much easier if projections are 
explicitly set. Especially if you are at your customers site or you are trying 
to give help through the mailing list when the mapfile and the errors are 
written by somebody else. Jeff is obviously looking the world from the same 
perspective as I.

But as an admin or almost plain orthophoto WMS I somehow thought that there are 
only raster and vector layers and setting a projection that is matching the 
data cannot make any harm. But Steve was worried about legends, does it mean 
that legends and scalebars etc. are somehow converted into layers which are 
also receiving projection as a heritage from somewhere? Documentation does not 
mention anything about projections with legends 
https://mapserver.org/mapfile/legend.html. Certainly I did not mean that users 
should be required to give fake projections for them.
There seems to be also other kind of artificial layers like charts, contours, 
and heatmaps. I am not sure if they have any native projection or not.

-Jukka Rahkonen-
 

-Alkuperäinen viesti-
Lähettäjä: mapserver-users  Puolesta 
Mark Volz
Lähetetty: maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 23.04
Vastaanottaja: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Aihe: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

Hello,
Just to add in my two cents to this.

1) I don’t think we should have to specify a projection at the  and 
 level if they are the same as that would seem redundant to me.   
However, it should be allowed if a user wants to specify the projection at both 
levels.
2) Perhaps it would be good form (but not required) to allow "PROJECTION NONE" 
to explicitly specify to any client that the scalebar, legend, static map, etc 
is not intended to be projected onto a particular part of the earth.   

Thanks!
Sincerely,
Mark Volz, GISP

-Original Message-
From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
mapserver-users-requ...@lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 2:28 PM
To: mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: mapserver-users Digest, Vol 147, Issue 28

SWHHS/LYON/LINCOLN COUNTY SECURITY NOTICE:
This email originated from an external sender. Exercise caution before clicking 
on any links or attachments and consider whether you know the sender. For more 
information please contact IT support.


Send mapserver-users mailing list submissions to
mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org

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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: 
Contents of mapserver-users digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Make PROJECTION mandatory? (Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul))
--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:16:52 +
From: "Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)" 
To: Steve Lime , Jeff McKenna

Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

All,

I can second Steve’s idea.  We were using Mapserver for years before we needed 
to pay attention to projections, because all of our data wasin our local 
coordinate system.   We now work projection across all map services for all 
layers, either by explicitly stating the projection or having it scripted at 
the web server call.  Some cases it won’t matter, if ever, and others it will 
be instrumental in getting a site working with many and varied projected 
datasets being combined.

I would agree that it should be a topic more prominently displayed/noted in the 
documentation.

Bobb


From: mapserver-users  On Behalf Of 
Steve Lime
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 1:21 PM
To: Jeff McKenna 
Cc: Mapserver 
Subject: Re: [mapserver-users] Make PROJECTION mandatory?

Think Before You Click: This email originated outside our organization.

I would prefer to pursue as a documentation/communication exercise first. It's 
not that I don't agree that PROJECTION blocks are generally recommended but 
making them required and introducing artificial projections to deal with cases 
when projections aren't used (embedded legends, scale bars and other static map 
elements) will touch a lot of code. It's also a major breaking change that 
would potentially break a large percentage of mapfiles going forward.

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 8:43 AM Jeff McKenna 
mailto:jmcke...@gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
Hi Jukka,

I 

Re: [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

[Rahkonen Jukka (MML)]

Hi,

The vendor specific filters are listed in the WFS  GetCapabilities. Try 
https://demo.geo-solutions.it/geoserver/wfs?service=WFS&version=2.0.0&request=GetCapabilities
 and you will find a lot of filters, including “Nearest”. I do not know the 
exact syntax to use in WFS filter but perhaps Andrea is lurking this list and 
can show some light for us.

The function list is per WFS service and that may be problematic with filters 
like pgnearest and SDO_NN which can work only with PostGIS and Oracle layers, 
respectively.

-Jukka Rahkonen-

Lähettäjä: Steve Lime 
Lähetetty: maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 21.42
Vastaanottaja: Rahkonen Jukka (MML) 
Kopio: Fran Acuña Parra ; mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Aihe: Re: [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

To be clear, Fran - are you saying the issue isn't the result set rather the 
order? If so I don't know of a way to affect that order.

In terms of a nearest feature or features. This would be something that I would 
be keen on addressing. I've run into a variant of this issue using the CGI and 
mode=query when searching multiple layers. The query finds the first matching 
feature but not necessarily the closest. It's an issue primarily with line and 
point layers when you need to set TOLERANCE values to make things clickable. 
Jukka, what does the vendor specific extension in GeoServer look like from WFS 
filter standpoint?

--Steve

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 10:21 AM Rahkonen Jukka (MML) 
mailto:jukka.rahko...@maanmittauslaitos.fi>>
 wrote:
Hi,

The DWithin function in WFS is a true/false function just like the equivalent 
PostGIS function https://postgis.net/docs/ST_DWithin.html. You can’t find the 
nearest feature with DWithin. A not so good workaround is to increase the 
distance until the result is not empty.

Mapserver does not have a vendor specific function for nearest either like 
Geotools/Geoserver. Especially the pgnearest function that works with PostGIS 
backend and returns n nearest features would be practical for your use case  
https://docs.geotools.org/stable/userguide/library/main/function_list.html.  
Geotools should also have a similar function for Oracle that is using the 
native SDO_NN function.

Unfortunately I can’t say how to proceed for making nearest or nearestN queries 
with Mapserver.

-Jukka Rahkonen-

Lähettäjä: mapserver-users 
mailto:mapserver-users-boun...@lists.osgeo.org>>
 Puolesta Fran Acuña Parra
Lähetetty: maanantai 27. huhtikuuta 2020 16.59
Vastaanottaja: 
mapserver-users@lists.osgeo.org
Aihe: [mapserver-users] GetFeature WFS request with Spatial Filter DWITHIN

Hi,

Following the topic about another question that I sent, I'm using a Getfeature 
WFS request with a DWITHIN spatial filter to returns the closes feature of a 
layer given some specific coordinates. The request works fine, but when there 
are several features that match the filter it doesn't returns the closest one 
in the first position of the response(GML for example). Is there a way to 
achieve this?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Fran Acuña
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