Re: ol start with a specific number?
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis pagalt...@gmx.de wrote: * Waylan Limberg way...@gmail.com [2011-04-07 04:15]: I'm not opposed to adding this, but I noticed that no other implementation (of those on Babelmark) implements this by default (not counting Pandoc's extended mode). I haven't checked if other implementations offer this as an option. John’s reason was that the `start` attribute was deprecated in HTML 4 Strict. That's why I'm so fond of Markdown implementations that support inline attribute lists (IALs) or similar, since all you need to do arbitrary styling on the CSS layer is a hook. kramdown [1], my favorite, borrowed IALs from Maruku [2] to nice effect. I don't use inline attributes often, but they're a lifesaver in certain spots. But because of my recent addiction to hyde [3] I find myself using python-markdown a lot, so either write one-off post-processing instructions to insert a hook or rely on `markdown=1`. (BTW, python-markdown honors `markdown=1`, but doesn't strip the attribute from output -- though post-processing fixes this, too.) IMO, any elegant facility for specifying arbitrary attributes inline solves not only the list-numbering problem but a raft of others. LQ [1]: http://kramdown.rubyforge.org/syntax.html#inline-attribute-lists [2]: http://maruku.rubyforge.org/proposal.html#attribute_lists [3]: https://github.com/lakshmivyas/hyde -- Lou Quillio http://quillio.com/ pub...@quillio.com ___ Markdown-Discuss mailing list Markdown-Discuss@six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss
Re: ol start with a specific number?
Markdown support is sufficiently fragmented that anyone who moves MD files
from one system to another without checking may be justly said to be getting
what he deserves.
It's getting apparent that JG has little interest in further work on
markdown. It is time to pretend that he has been abducted by aliens, and to
carry on without him.
I can see various things to happen from here:
1. BabelMark could become the repository for dialect differences. Couple
BabelMark to a wiki.
2. The various MD implementors could get together and define what is core
markdown. This is the feature set that everyone supports or is willing to
support.
Core features could be supported OotB, or Conf -- Out of the box, or by a
configuration file, or by a tag or flag in the file.
In particular the core group would define what behaviour should happen in
the edge cases where it currently is not well defined.
Thus constructs like the numbering issue earlier in this thread may have a
config file entry of:
LazyNumber = {traditional | initial } #traditional -- always starts with 1,
initial starts with the first number provided.
With time it's hoped that more and more of the features drift into core.
Question: If we look at the dialects of MD that account for, say, 90% of
the use, how many of the implementors of those are on this list?
Respectfully,
Sherwood of Sherwood's Forests
Sherwood Botsford
Sherwood's Forests -- http://Sherwoods-Forests.com
780-848-2548
50042 Range Rd 31
Warburg, Alberta T0C 2T0
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis pagalt...@gmx.dewrote:
* Waylan Limberg way...@gmail.com [2011-04-07 04:15]:
I'm not opposed to adding this, but I noticed that no other
implementation (of those on Babelmark) implements this by
default (not counting Pandoc's extended mode). I haven't
checked if other implementations offer this as an option.
John’s reason was that the `start` attribute was deprecated
in HTML 4 Strict. He has since said at least once that this
reasoning was flawed and the decision a mistake.
My question is: should this be an option to turn on and off,
and if so, should it be on or off by default?
Bitter as it may be I think you would need to leave it off by
default. Interoperability is important.
Given that statement, it would seem that on by default and
without an option to turn if off would be fine.
I wish John would make another release to straighten out these
handful of known tiny niggles… since his is the implementation
that everyone else’s will follow.
But what is the reality in the real world? If I did that, would
a bunch of documents suddenly start rendering incorrectly - or
at least different that expected? I guess the real question is:
has everyone been ignoring that piece of advice in the docs and
if so, is this something we should care about as implementors?
It’s not that simple. Consider what happens if some user writes
a document while previewing it with your implementation, which
advertises itself as Markdown, then pastes it into the textarea
in some web app, which also advertises Markdown support.
Regards,
--
Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
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Re: ol start with a specific number?
I myself have thought about the benefits of establishing a standards
body/committee/whatever to define Markdown moving forward. One
comment --- if JG is not going to further maintain Markdown, such a
syntax may need to be renamed to make it clear that it not his
canonical version, but is something else.
I am not convinced that such a thing is *necessary*, but I would not
be opposed to its existence and would be interested in ensuring
MultiMarkdown is compliant should such a standards group be created.
F-
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Sherwood Botsford sgbotsf...@gmail.com wrote:
Markdown support is sufficiently fragmented that anyone who moves MD files
from one system to another without checking may be justly said to be getting
what he deserves.
It's getting apparent that JG has little interest in further work on
markdown. It is time to pretend that he has been abducted by aliens, and to
carry on without him.
I can see various things to happen from here:
1. BabelMark could become the repository for dialect differences. Couple
BabelMark to a wiki.
2. The various MD implementors could get together and define what is core
markdown. This is the feature set that everyone supports or is willing to
support.
Core features could be supported OotB, or Conf -- Out of the box, or by a
configuration file, or by a tag or flag in the file.
In particular the core group would define what behaviour should happen in
the edge cases where it currently is not well defined.
Thus constructs like the numbering issue earlier in this thread may have a
config file entry of:
LazyNumber = {traditional | initial } #traditional -- always starts with 1,
initial starts with the first number provided.
With time it's hoped that more and more of the features drift into core.
Question: If we look at the dialects of MD that account for, say, 90% of
the use, how many of the implementors of those are on this list?
Respectfully,
Sherwood of Sherwood's Forests
Sherwood Botsford
Sherwood's Forests -- http://Sherwoods-Forests.com
780-848-2548
50042 Range Rd 31
Warburg, Alberta T0C 2T0
On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 9:34 PM, Aristotle Pagaltzis pagalt...@gmx.de
wrote:
* Waylan Limberg way...@gmail.com [2011-04-07 04:15]:
I'm not opposed to adding this, but I noticed that no other
implementation (of those on Babelmark) implements this by
default (not counting Pandoc's extended mode). I haven't
checked if other implementations offer this as an option.
John’s reason was that the `start` attribute was deprecated
in HTML 4 Strict. He has since said at least once that this
reasoning was flawed and the decision a mistake.
My question is: should this be an option to turn on and off,
and if so, should it be on or off by default?
Bitter as it may be I think you would need to leave it off by
default. Interoperability is important.
Given that statement, it would seem that on by default and
without an option to turn if off would be fine.
I wish John would make another release to straighten out these
handful of known tiny niggles… since his is the implementation
that everyone else’s will follow.
But what is the reality in the real world? If I did that, would
a bunch of documents suddenly start rendering incorrectly - or
at least different that expected? I guess the real question is:
has everyone been ignoring that piece of advice in the docs and
if so, is this something we should care about as implementors?
It’s not that simple. Consider what happens if some user writes
a document while previewing it with your implementation, which
advertises itself as Markdown, then pastes it into the textarea
in some web app, which also advertises Markdown support.
Regards,
--
Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
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--
Fletcher T. Penney
fletc...@fletcherpenney.net
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Re: ol start with a specific number?
* Waylan Limberg way...@gmail.com [2011-04-07 04:15]: I'm not opposed to adding this, but I noticed that no other implementation (of those on Babelmark) implements this by default (not counting Pandoc's extended mode). I haven't checked if other implementations offer this as an option. John’s reason was that the `start` attribute was deprecated in HTML 4 Strict. He has since said at least once that this reasoning was flawed and the decision a mistake. My question is: should this be an option to turn on and off, and if so, should it be on or off by default? Bitter as it may be I think you would need to leave it off by default. Interoperability is important. Given that statement, it would seem that on by default and without an option to turn if off would be fine. I wish John would make another release to straighten out these handful of known tiny niggles… since his is the implementation that everyone else’s will follow. But what is the reality in the real world? If I did that, would a bunch of documents suddenly start rendering incorrectly - or at least different that expected? I guess the real question is: has everyone been ignoring that piece of advice in the docs and if so, is this something we should care about as implementors? It’s not that simple. Consider what happens if some user writes a document while previewing it with your implementation, which advertises itself as Markdown, then pastes it into the textarea in some web app, which also advertises Markdown support. Regards, -- Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/ ___ Markdown-Discuss mailing list Markdown-Discuss@six.pairlist.net http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss
