Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Document Foundation's response to Her Majesty's Government consultation on document formats
Am 26.02.2014 22:48, schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: ... may be found here: http://standards.data.gov.uk/comment/974#comment-974 Best, Very good post! Although I bet the CC on the us...@global.libreoffice.org took the server down last night. ;) Unfortunately I waited with my post till the very end to become the last post it unfortunately got lost. Please allow me to sent my post here instead so the effort was not for nothing and it still might help someone of your marketing: *Rule Britannia!* I would like to thank the Open Standards board for its courage to change the road being taken for decades and aiming for innovation, giving smaller companies an opportunity. I really do hope that there will be no OOXML aside of ODF in the proposal as there is no need for it and I fear it would weaken the ecosystem of transparency. But I have to wish you luck, as there is this saying, that it always seems easier for a company to add another software from Microsoft to its stack than a better alternative (the vicious circle) and an IT manager usually does not risk his job by choosing Microsoft. Not to mention the powerful MS lobby. Still I hope Britain is able to break free as the city of Munich did before. Many good lessons can be learned from Munich, which has proven that even with additional education the use of open-source is cheaper. Now even their approaches and tools can be reused/shared. Regarding innovation I would like to point out an upcoming technical innovation of ODF starting with change-tracking https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office-collab. Instead of saving before/after states, changes/operation are being specified and can be used as well for real-time collaboration. Two implementations (WebODF http://webodf.org/ and OX documents https://www.ox.io/ox_text) both open-source http://git.open-xchange.com/git/office browser based ODF editors have taken first steps of testing a joined collaboration. Unthinkable that Office365 would do allow collaboration with applications from vendors other than Microsoft. Finally I would like to comment on the promise of Microsoft to the EU http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2009/dec09/12-16statement.aspx to support every ODF ISO standard 9 months after its publishing. Although the Microsoft support of ODF 1.1 in MS Office 2010 was only moderate, the support of ODF 1.2 in MS Office 2013 is indeed quite good. Unfortunately they supporting only a single version of ODF in a major office version, while with extensions OOXML is even working back to Office XP. An interoperability nightmare. Even worse, when opening a valid ODF 1.2 file in MS Office 2010, it irritates the user by declaring the document of being corrupt (FUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt?). The reason is that a new version attribute had been added to the ODF spec. Too expensive to be fixed, they say. Sad that we can not sent them (or a public source repository) any patches, like we can do for all the ODF open source. As Microsoft Office is closed source and has a stronghold on the market. They are able to block the progress. The problem of interoperability between versions might be fixed in general by providing free available transitions between the standard versions (better being part of the standard). It was once ignorant to state that a format will never change, this is equal to stopping evolution. Instead a transition must be provided to not break the chain of opening ancient documents. Aside of the above unfortunately still most/all standards lack of free available test suits with a good coverage. Even for ODF it is not able to determine what features are being supported by an ODF application and if it covers the feature set of the documents of the user. But anyway, by adopting ODF the UK can finally start moving away from Microsoft's strangling embrace. It is time for an Office Spring! *Rule, Britannia!* -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] The Document Foundation's response to Her Majesty's Government consultation on document formats
The deadline for feed-back to the UK was expired till Friday 5pm GMT (6pm mid-European time) due to the outage of yesterday. Cheers, Svante PS: Regarding spelling mistakes, I copy/pasted my comment earlier in LibreOffice and used its spell checking ;) Am 27.02.2014 15:28, schrieb Tom Davies: Hi :) This is weird! I still seem to be able to make posts! I've gone through a few of the early FUD ones but only got as far as page 2. I wish i could edit the ones i posted yday because i can see all sorts of bad spelling mistakes and problems with grammar. I think the meaning is fairly clear but i wish i had stopped ostriching earlier and got someone to proof-read my posts Regards from Tom :) On 27 February 2014 10:21, Svante Schubert svante.schub...@gmail.com wrote: Am 26.02.2014 22:48, schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: ... may be found here: http://standards.data.gov.uk/comment/974#comment-974 Best, Very good post! Although I bet the CC on the us...@global.libreoffice.org took the server down last night. ;) Unfortunately I waited with my post till the very end to become the last post it unfortunately got lost. Please allow me to sent my post here instead so the effort was not for nothing and it still might help someone of your marketing: *Rule Britannia!* I would like to thank the Open Standards board for its courage to change the road being taken for decades and aiming for innovation, giving smaller companies an opportunity. I really do hope that there will be no OOXML aside of ODF in the proposal as there is no need for it and I fear it would weaken the ecosystem of transparency. But I have to wish you luck, as there is this saying, that it always seems easier for a company to add another software from Microsoft to its stack than a better alternative (the vicious circle) and an IT manager usually does not risk his job by choosing Microsoft. Not to mention the powerful MS lobby. Still I hope Britain is able to break free as the city of Munich did before. Many good lessons can be learned from Munich, which has proven that even with additional education the use of open-source is cheaper. Now even their approaches and tools can be reused/shared. Regarding innovation I would like to point out an upcoming technical innovation of ODF starting with change-tracking https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office-collab. Instead of saving before/after states, changes/operation are being specified and can be used as well for real-time collaboration. Two implementations (WebODF http://webodf.org/ and OX documents https://www.ox.io/ox_text) both open-source http://git.open-xchange.com/git/office browser based ODF editors have taken first steps of testing a joined collaboration. Unthinkable that Office365 would do allow collaboration with applications from vendors other than Microsoft. Finally I would like to comment on the promise of Microsoft to the EU http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2009/dec09/12-16statement.aspx to support every ODF ISO standard 9 months after its publishing. Although the Microsoft support of ODF 1.1 in MS Office 2010 was only moderate, the support of ODF 1.2 in MS Office 2013 is indeed quite good. Unfortunately they supporting only a single version of ODF in a major office version, while with extensions OOXML is even working back to Office XP. An interoperability nightmare. Even worse, when opening a valid ODF 1.2 file in MS Office 2010, it irritates the user by declaring the document of being corrupt (FUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt?). The reason is that a new version attribute had been added to the ODF spec. Too expensive to be fixed, they say. Sad that we can not sent them (or a public source repository) any patches, like we can do for all the ODF open source. As Microsoft Office is closed source and has a stronghold on the market. They are able to block the progress. The problem of interoperability between versions might be fixed in general by providing free available transitions between the standard versions (better being part of the standard). It was once ignorant to state that a format will never change, this is equal to stopping evolution. Instead a transition must be provided to not break the chain of opening ancient documents. Aside of the above unfortunately still most/all standards lack of free available test suits with a good coverage. Even for ODF it is not able to determine what features are being supported by an ODF application and if it covers the feature set of the documents of the user. But anyway, by adopting ODF the UK can finally start moving away from Microsoft's strangling embrace. It is time for an Office Spring! *Rule, Britannia!* -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] ODF-Track at the LinuxTag 2012: Call for Papers
On 18.01.2012 20:28, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi Florian, *, Am Mittwoch, 18. Januar 2012, 13:28:15 schrieb Florian Effenberger: ... just got a tip that it might be helpful to directly approach some people from the ODF Adoption TC - Andreas, do you have time to do so? if you could jump in, that would be nice. I'm swamped with some todos for FrODeV, the development for the LibreOffice template site and ODFAuthors.org I might take over to ask the people from ODF Adoption TC. Interesting would be in general to ask anyone, who held earlier a presentation on an ODF track, sent them an email.. - Svante -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Fw: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] pro-OpenDocument Format arguments
http://www.chip.de/downloads/Sun-ODF-Plug-in-fuer-Microsoft-Office_24293087.html But it was only a first step, of what might be possible. AFAIK Florian Reuter has wrote it, at least pushed the stone.. Am 27.11.2011 23:14, schrieb webmaster for Kracked Press Productions: There use to be such a filter from Sun, before Oracle took over it. I wish I could find a copy of it again. On 11/26/2011 10:10 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) I really like the idea expressed at the end of Tim's post. However i think such an add-on would need to work even with MSOs versions that do claim to support ODF as it would be better to be able to use the newer ODF 1.2 rather than the fairly ancient ODF 1.0. I didn't think MSO could use anything like add-ons, filters or anything like that. Regards from Tom :) --- On Sat, 26/11/11, webmaster for Kracked Press Productionswebmas...@krackedpress.com wrote: snip / If we can find a filter that allows MSO to read/write ODF formats, for those versions that did not try to built it in, then we can send that filter to our business contacts as something that may help their businesses deal with the International Standard Office Suite file formats called ODF. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-marketing] Re: What about Real-time collaborative editing (RTCE) in LibreOffice? A simple user POW proposal
Hi, there is good news: OASIS has already real-time collaborative editing (RTCE) in the pipeline. Last year a sub-committee Advanced Document Collaboration was founded within OASIS. The lesser good news is that the SC is currently struggling to find the optimal solution. Yesterday, I wrote a status summary http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-collab/201110/msg8.html to the SC mailing list and a proposal for change-tracking focusing compatibility with collaboration will follow. If you are curious on details, just follow the links from the link above.. The protocol to be used will be not be part in the first step, as it is a different layer, but I would consider working systems as http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activity_sharing part of the 100$ laptop (or laptop for every child) campaign, see http://sugarlabs.org Regards, Svante *From: *timofonic timofonic timofo...@gmail.com mailto:timofo...@gmail.com *Date: *17 October 2011 00:24:59 GMT+01:00 *To: *marketing@global.libreoffice.org mailto:marketing@global.libreoffice.org *Subject: **Re: [libreoffice-marketing] What about Real-time collaborative editing (RTCE) in LibreOffice? A simple user POW proposal* *Reply-To: *marketing@global.libreoffice.org mailto:marketing@global.libreoffice.org Hello. It's just an idea I want to promote, because I think it can be more interesting than some people think. Anyone can foorward the idea I expressed to anyone that can help to make it reality, I just want to become reality as an user of Libreoffice and other text editors. OASIS seems a good candidate for this, even other office suites or advanced text editors. The point of RTCE is not just for office applications, but any text editor targeted at not just very simple functionality. So this can be a wide standard in terms of possible adoption, and maybe even add interoperability with online projects like EtherPad. Regards. On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk mailto:tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) I think it might be good to forward this to OASIS. THey already have collaboration between various projects to produce OpenDocument Format specifications. I think that is part of what is being called for here? A specification that can be shared by the various existing OpenSource office applications? Regards from Tom :) --- On Fri, 14/10/11, timofonic timofonic timofo...@gmail.com mailto:timofo...@gmail.com wrote: From: timofonic timofonic timofo...@gmail.com mailto:timofo...@gmail.com Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] What about Real-time collaborative editing (RTCE) in LibreOffice? A simple user POW proposal To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org mailto:marketing@global.libreoffice.org Date: Friday, 14 October, 2011, 16:04 Hello to everyone. I'm just an user of LibreOffice, no developer at all. But I think maybe this can be an interesting discussion with the more skilled people involved into the project. Since the apparition of SubEthaEdit for Macs, the real-time collaborative editing (from now on referred as RTCE) started to rise from these days. The Web 2.0 phonomenom made RTCE even more known with Writely and EtherPad, then Google bought both (but EhterPad now remains as a FOSS project) to integrate resources to the Google Docs online Office suite. There are editors that already support RTCE, like AbiWord (by using AbiCollab extension), ACE, Emacs (by extensions like Rudel or others) and Gobby. Unfortunately there aren't a strong open standard protocol shared among them, so interoperability is a big issue there. RTCE is something thinked before in OpenOffice and seems also taken in account in LibreOffice as future ideas to develop, but the approach and ideas behind it were primitive or their importance is still not enough considered. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Crazy_Ideas#Simple_server-based_collaborative_editing There's an open RTCE protocol named Infinote ( http://infinote.org ), a redesign of the Obby protocol that is part of Gobby and implemented in libinfinity. There's a server implementation named Infinoted and the protocol is already user by some third party applications but the popularity is quite low at this moment. There's jarn.xmpp.collaboration (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/jarn.xmpp.collaboration), a XMPP protocol extension targeted at RTCE. The protocol is still quite young, but still actively developed. The use of an open protocol standard would not just help interoperability between different projects, but also improve the protocol for being more flexible and powerful over time in the same way of ODF. While interoperability with existing projects is very cool and nice, this isn't going to resolve the issue in the long term. Those projects will stay incompatible between them, and each new project may choose a new protocol that LibreOffice developers would need to implement it.
