Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread Drew Jensen
Howdy,


On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 9:40 AM William Gathoye (LibreOffice) <
william.gath...@libreoffice.org> wrote:

> On 15/01/2020 14:45, Drew Jensen wrote:
> > Disabling S mode should be strongly discouraged IMO.
> >
> > if users need to do so to run some software then that is a failure of the
> > vendor of that software to adequately care for the users security, IMO.
>
> Most if not all users I have advised have disabled the S Mode. Most of
> them are students whose apps they need are not on the Microsoft Store.
>

Indeed, before I read over the MS faq pages on 10 S I didn't realize S mode
was available in all of the different flavors of Windows (home, pro,
education, enterprise) but it is.

The MS Faq also makes numerous references to turning off the S Mode and
simple instructions on how to do it.


>
> Not all companies can afford providing a specific version for stores.
> This especially applies for technologies blacklisted from stores (e.g.
> Java, electron, etc. for the Mac App Store) and apps with anti-piracy
> features.
>

Yes, for instance I am unable to find a version of Java available from the
MS Store (IDK if java comes out of the box with Win 10 S, but I doubt it).
While the Python foundation has three different versions of Python
available there. (Free of charge)
Which is nice since Python is a an option for scripting LibreOffice. MS
Visual Code (which is available in the store also) works as a python IDE
with the only missing link being the APSO extension.

Anyway, there is one MS platform which only uses applications from the MS
Store and that is the Surface OS - there is no switching out to use other
software available there.

>
> Hopefully, TDF and TDC will fix this situation in the very near future.
> Widening the different channels we have to install LibreOffice is a good
> way to ensure omnipresence and ease of migrations. :) And the potential
> removal of the "Vanilla" mention for future TDC versions is a good way
> to improve LibreOffice brand awareness.
>
> --
> William Gathoye
> Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice
> Proud member of The Document Foundation
> Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and
> LibreOffice
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
On 15/01/2020 14:45, Drew Jensen wrote:
> Disabling S mode should be strongly discouraged IMO.
> 
> if users need to do so to run some software then that is a failure of the
> vendor of that software to adequately care for the users security, IMO.

Most if not all users I have advised have disabled the S Mode. Most of
them are students whose apps they need are not on the Microsoft Store.

Not all companies can afford providing a specific version for stores.
This especially applies for technologies blacklisted from stores (e.g.
Java, electron, etc. for the Mac App Store) and apps with anti-piracy
features.

Hopefully, TDF and TDC will fix this situation in the very near future.
Widening the different channels we have to install LibreOffice is a good
way to ensure omnipresence and ease of migrations. :) And the potential
removal of the "Vanilla" mention for future TDC versions is a good way
to improve LibreOffice brand awareness.

-- 
William Gathoye
Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice
Proud member of The Document Foundation
Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 1/15/20 2:44 PM, William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote:

> Didn't know about the possibility to upset OEM vendors. In French
> speaking countries I haven't seen much manufacturers preinstalling
> LibreOffice, but the situation may vary like you said in Italy :)

Maybe upset is not the right word, but we have to be careful with them
as they have to manage the delicate relationship with Microsoft, which
is not a nice partner to deal with.

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread Drew Jensen
Howdy,


On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:44 AM William Gathoye (LibreOffice) <
william.gath...@libreoffice.org> wrote:

> On 15/01/2020 14:35, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> Since the Windows 7
> deprecation notice [2] and people having bought computer in Windows 10 S
> mode, I begin to have questions about the ability to get Windows auto
> updates, I have forwarded most of them to use LibreOffice by CIB for
> this. Now, I regret because some issues are being reported to me (cf.
> other mail in this thread). Really looking forwards for TDC :)
>

I follow your account on Twitter btw, get good stuff from it.

I am curious you say there are other problems, do you mean that you hear of
other problems from folks running Vanilla LibreOffice (from CIB) under
Window 10?

Thanks

>
> >
> [1]
>
> https://fr.blog.documentfoundation.org/2019/11/07/installer-libreoffice-sur-chromeos/
> [2] https://twitter.com/LibreOfficeFR/status/1217040596369575939
>
> --
> William Gathoye
> Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice
> Proud member of The Document Foundation
> Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and
> LibreOffice
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread Drew Jensen
Disabling S mode should be strongly discouraged IMO.

if users need to do so to run some software then that is a failure of the
vendor of that software to adequately care for the users security, IMO.



On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:35 AM Italo Vignoli  wrote:

> On 1/15/20 2:24 PM, William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote:
>
> >> AFAIK, on Windows 10 S you can only install software from the Microsoft
> >> Store, and not from external sources. Microsoft has been enforcing this
> >> in all countries in Europe since October 1st, 2019.
>
> > While this is indeed enforced, on x86, the S mode can be disabled by the
> > user. This action is irreversible though. [1]. The method is completelly
> > legal and authorized by Microsoft.
>
> Authorized but strongly discouraged, especially with OEMs (who are
> "invited" not to mention the possibility on their documentation). So, we
> should manage the topic with care, to avoid upsetting OEMs who are happy
> to install LibreOffice on their high level PCs, where they can avoid to
> use Windows 10 S (which is compulsory on low level processors).
>
> > [1]
> >
> https://support.microsoft.com/fr-fr/help/4456067/windows-10-switch-out-of-s-mode
>
> We can probably write a blog post where we explain how to install
> LibreOffice on Windows 10 S, using Microsoft own sources (without any
> mention to PC manufacturers). As a reason for the blog post, we can use
> requests from individual users.
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli - LibreOffice Marketing & PR
> mobile/signal +39.348.5653829 - email it...@libreoffice.org
> hangout/jabber italo.vign...@gmail.com - skype italovignoli
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>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread Drew Jensen
On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:50 AM Drew Jensen 
wrote:

> Howdy,
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:44 AM William Gathoye (LibreOffice) <
> william.gath...@libreoffice.org> wrote:
>
>> On 15/01/2020 14:35, Italo Vignoli wrote:
>> Since the Windows 7
>> deprecation notice [2] and people having bought computer in Windows 10 S
>> mode, I begin to have questions about the ability to get Windows auto
>> updates, I have forwarded most of them to use LibreOffice by CIB for
>> this. Now, I regret because some issues are being reported to me (cf.
>> other mail in this thread). Really looking forwards for TDC :)
>>
>
> I follow your account on Twitter btw, get good stuff from it.
>
> I am curious you say there are other problems, do you mean that you hear
> of other problems from folks running Vanilla LibreOffice (from CIB) under
> Window 10?
>

Sorry - under Windows 10 S, is what I'm asking about, and only Windows 10
S.

>
> Thanks
>
>>
>> >
>> [1]
>>
>> https://fr.blog.documentfoundation.org/2019/11/07/installer-libreoffice-sur-chromeos/
>> [2] https://twitter.com/LibreOfficeFR/status/1217040596369575939
>>
>> --
>> William Gathoye
>> Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice
>> Proud member of The Document Foundation
>> Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and
>> LibreOffice
>>
>> --
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>>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
On 15/01/2020 14:35, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> Authorized but strongly discouraged, especially with OEMs (who are
> "invited" not to mention the possibility on their documentation). So, we
> should manage the topic with care, to avoid upsetting OEMs who are happy
> to install LibreOffice on their high level PCs, where they can avoid to
> use Windows 10 S (which is compulsory on low level processors).

Didn't know about the possibility to upset OEM vendors. In French
speaking countries I haven't seen much manufacturers preinstalling
LibreOffice, but the situation may vary like you said in Italy :)

> 
> We can probably write a blog post where we explain how to install
> LibreOffice on Windows 10 S, using Microsoft own sources (without any
> mention to PC manufacturers). As a reason for the blog post, we can use
> requests from individual users.

+1 for blog post. At the beginning of the school year, I had to write
one because I was struggling with peoples always asking for the same
question but for ChromeOS, so I wrote one [1]. Since the Windows 7
deprecation notice [2] and people having bought computer in Windows 10 S
mode, I begin to have questions about the ability to get Windows auto
updates, I have forwarded most of them to use LibreOffice by CIB for
this. Now, I regret because some issues are being reported to me (cf.
other mail in this thread). Really looking forwards for TDC :)

> 
[1]
https://fr.blog.documentfoundation.org/2019/11/07/installer-libreoffice-sur-chromeos/
[2] https://twitter.com/LibreOfficeFR/status/1217040596369575939

-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 1/15/20 2:24 PM, William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote:

>> AFAIK, on Windows 10 S you can only install software from the Microsoft
>> Store, and not from external sources. Microsoft has been enforcing this
>> in all countries in Europe since October 1st, 2019.

> While this is indeed enforced, on x86, the S mode can be disabled by the
> user. This action is irreversible though. [1]. The method is completelly
> legal and authorized by Microsoft.

Authorized but strongly discouraged, especially with OEMs (who are
"invited" not to mention the possibility on their documentation). So, we
should manage the topic with care, to avoid upsetting OEMs who are happy
to install LibreOffice on their high level PCs, where they can avoid to
use Windows 10 S (which is compulsory on low level processors).

> [1]
> https://support.microsoft.com/fr-fr/help/4456067/windows-10-switch-out-of-s-mode

We can probably write a blog post where we explain how to install
LibreOffice on Windows 10 S, using Microsoft own sources (without any
mention to PC manufacturers). As a reason for the blog post, we can use
requests from individual users.

-- 
Italo Vignoli - LibreOffice Marketing & PR
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-15 Thread William Gathoye (LibreOffice)
Hi there,

On 12/01/2020 00:38, Italo Vignoli wrote:
> AFAIK, on Windows 10 S you can only install software from the Microsoft
> Store, and not from external sources. Microsoft has been enforcing this
> in all countries in Europe since October 1st, 2019.

While this is indeed enforced, on x86, the S mode can be disabled by the
user. This action is irreversible though. [1]. The method is completelly
legal and authorized by Microsoft.

Then, afterwards, the end user is able to install apps from outside the
Microsoft Store and may install LibreOffice from our website for example.

[1]
https://support.microsoft.com/fr-fr/help/4456067/windows-10-switch-out-of-s-mode


-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-13 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 1/13/20 2:36 AM, Drew Jensen wrote:

>> In Italy, we get the information from a large Microsoft OEM, as they are
>> also providing Linux based PCs and installing LibreOffice on Windows. It
>> looks like the situation might become even worse on PCs for end users,
>> while it won't change on PCs for enterprises.

> Now that, to me, sounds like a golden opportunity for a sales deal between
> them and the folks at CIB for both Vanilla and L24B versions.

I have created the connection back in October.

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-12 Thread Drew Jensen
Howdy,

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 5:55 PM Italo Vignoli  wrote:


> In Italy, we get the information from a large Microsoft OEM, as they are
> also providing Linux based PCs and installing LibreOffice on Windows. It
> looks like the situation might become even worse on PCs for end users,
> while it won't change on PCs for enterprises.
>
>
Now that, to me, sounds like a golden opportunity for a sales deal between
them and the folks at CIB for both Vanilla and L24B versions.


-- 
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-12 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 1/12/20 4:20 PM, Drew Jensen wrote:

> Anyway, I have a few hours today to put into this so I'll just go with what
> I know so far.

In Italy, we get the information from a large Microsoft OEM, as they are
also providing Linux based PCs and installing LibreOffice on Windows. It
looks like the situation might become even worse on PCs for end users,
while it won't change on PCs for enterprises.

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-12 Thread Drew Jensen
Howdy,

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 6:38 PM Italo Vignoli  wrote:

> AFAIK, on Windows 10 S you can only install software from the Microsoft
> Store, and not from external sources. Microsoft has been enforcing this
> in all countries in Europe since October 1st, 2019.
>

Yes, that is correct.

So I tried looking for an answer perhaps in the support forums, to see if
anyone had reported a problem or vice versa.
No luck. In fact I could only find one reference to Win 10 S in the Ask
forum (searched in the en and fr boards) and all that was about was some
guy failing to install LO from the main website because he was running 10 S.
Also checked some of the other bbs style forums but again nothing.

Then I tried searching for any magazine or blog posts about LibreOffice in
the MS Store, but again that was less then fruitful. In fact all I cam up
with were articles about an earlier MS Store offering from an
unknown source, not the CIB Vanilla offering, and which spent most of their
ink on that and not the actual software.

Anyway, I have a few hours today to put into this so I'll just go with what
I know so far.

Best wishes,

Drew

>
> On 1/11/20 8:37 PM, Drew Jensen wrote:
> > Howdy,
> >
> > One, last hopefully, question specifically for the case where a person
> has
> > installed Vanilla Libreoffice under Windows 10 S(ecurity) mode.
> >
> > Are there any limitations with regards to extensions, specifically
> > downloading from the TDF extension site by the user, in this type of
> > installation?
> >
> > I suspect that is a question that may not have a definitive answer as it
> > may depend site specific security protocols, but I don't know. (sorry, I
> > don't have access to a Win 10 S box or I'd try it myself).
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Drew
> >
> > ps. I was also wondering how many people out there might be running Win
> 10
> > S and the best guess I could come up with is something less then %6.5
> > percent of desktops running Win 10. That number I found as the market
> share
> > for the Edge browser which is mandated when in S mode.
> >
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-11 Thread Italo Vignoli
AFAIK, on Windows 10 S you can only install software from the Microsoft
Store, and not from external sources. Microsoft has been enforcing this
in all countries in Europe since October 1st, 2019.

On 1/11/20 8:37 PM, Drew Jensen wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> One, last hopefully, question specifically for the case where a person has
> installed Vanilla Libreoffice under Windows 10 S(ecurity) mode.
> 
> Are there any limitations with regards to extensions, specifically
> downloading from the TDF extension site by the user, in this type of
> installation?
> 
> I suspect that is a question that may not have a definitive answer as it
> may depend site specific security protocols, but I don't know. (sorry, I
> don't have access to a Win 10 S box or I'd try it myself).
> 
> Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Drew
> 
> ps. I was also wondering how many people out there might be running Win 10
> S and the best guess I could come up with is something less then %6.5
> percent of desktops running Win 10. That number I found as the market share
> for the Edge browser which is mandated when in S mode.
> 

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[libreoffice-marketing] Another question regarding Vanilla Libreoffice on Win 10 S and access to extensions

2020-01-11 Thread Drew Jensen
Howdy,

One, last hopefully, question specifically for the case where a person has
installed Vanilla Libreoffice under Windows 10 S(ecurity) mode.

Are there any limitations with regards to extensions, specifically
downloading from the TDF extension site by the user, in this type of
installation?

I suspect that is a question that may not have a definitive answer as it
may depend site specific security protocols, but I don't know. (sorry, I
don't have access to a Win 10 S box or I'd try it myself).

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

Best wishes,

Drew

ps. I was also wondering how many people out there might be running Win 10
S and the best guess I could come up with is something less then %6.5
percent of desktops running Win 10. That number I found as the market share
for the Edge browser which is mandated when in S mode.

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