Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Robinson Tryon]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Fabian Rodriguez
 wrote:
> The FSF campaign focuses on free software supports ODF and
> specifically encourages to reject *any* documents created with
> Microsoft and iWork:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/reject
>
> No mention anywhere of any advantages of ODF being supported by
> "popular" non-free software, whatever that may mean.

Yes, that's a bit unfortunate omission from the site. The entry was
posted in 2011, so I can understand how it might be a bit out of date
and not reflect the current capabilities of modern version of
MS-Office. That being said, I think the FSF will still be reticent to
promote the use of MS-Office under its current licensing scheme.

This is precisely why I think we should split-up the campaigns, so the
FSF can continue to say "Please use ODF + Free Software," and an
interoperability group can say "Please use ODF for interchange."

--R

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Robinson Tryon]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Italo Vignoli  wrote:
> I think that we should propose a
> global promotion strategy based on a few actions (starting from an ODF
> icon set, which is sorely missing), and if no one follows us then we
> have the legitimate option of taking it over.

Charles mentioned that a default icon set was considered previously,
but didn't work out. Does someone have a quick summary of the
showstopper(s)?

> Of course, to avoid being accused of hijacking the ODF promotion by the
> usual suspects, we can have FSF and FSFE launch the campaign (and host
> the relevant pages).

+1

I think that there are two separate but related campaigns we want to run:

1) People should use ODF formats for interoperability

There are several points to make here, but a big one is that modern
versions of Microsoft Office *can* read/write ODF. If there are
specific bugs in LO that are causing us to break compliance w/ODF and
with other implementations, we should make it a priority to fix those
so we can show our good-faith effort in correctly supporting the
interchange format.

2) People should use Free/Libre softwarewhen dealing with ODF files

This campaign is just like the PDF Readers campaign, etc... we have a
website, we give people stock badges to put on their websites, etc.
This not only makes it easy for people to promote Free Software ODF
software, but also lowers the barrier to using ODF formats, as you can
just drop a badge+link whenever you put an ODF document online.

>
> We can ping John Sullivan and Karsten Gerloff about this idea, and get
> their opinion as well.

Campaign #2 seems like it would be very appropriate for the FSF(E) to
lead. Campaign #1 might be appropriate for the OpenDoc Society
 (the group that runs the
opendocumentfoundation.org site).


Cheers,
--R

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Fabian Rodriguez]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2013-07-17 07:28, Tom Davies wrote:
> Have you used Google-docs recently?  Last i heard, and that was
> just a month or so ago, Google-docs stopped allowing people to use
> ODF.

The speculation around this is enough to not use or favor use of such
SaaS (software as service) offerings, and in general any non-free
software. You can't be sure this won't disappear and recent history
with Google products that support free open standards gives every
indication it will.

Campaigning for ODF file formats while leaving aside considerations
for software freedom is not coherent, IMO, and that is why such a
campaign without an additional focus on software freedom and web
autonomy can't work.

- From http://pdfreaders.org/:
"Other proprietary alternatives to Adobe's PDF reader also exist, but
like it, their internal working is a trade secret and these programs
do not respect your right to control your own privacy and data."

In fact I am a bit surprised that there aren't malware offerings yet
that include ODF reading "capabilities". That will be an interesting
vector of attack when it's implemented.

> FSF supports ODF aswell as supporting LibreOffice and TDF.  They
> are separate issues though.  Part of their campaign for ODF
> includes the crucial point that it can be used (or is even "the
> native format" of) quite a large range of different products.

I couldn't find references to what you imply.

The FSF campaign focuses on free software supports ODF and
specifically encourages to reject *any* documents created with
Microsoft and iWork:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/reject

No mention anywhere of any advantages of ODF being supported by
"popular" non-free software, whatever that may mean.

Perhaps the only valid reason to use such SaaS and non-free software
may be when transitioning to free software, IMO.

If LibreOffice marketing can find an angle to that, it may be possible
to remain coherent while making a valid argument about why resources
are dedicated to non-free platforms at all.

Cheers,

Fabian


- -- 
Fabián Rodríguez
http://fsf.magicfab.ca
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Italo Vignoli]

On 17/07/2013 10:59, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:

> Yes, but why should it be up to us? It could be up to the OASIS
> Consortium and other movements to take care of that.  I sound reluctant
> here not because I'm not interested but because it's very important to
> realize that we are an implementor of ODF. ODF as such is vendor
> neutral and while we ought to push the use of  ODF we cannot "take
> over" the promotion of ODF. 

This is true, but on the other hand no one is promoting ODF, and
Document Freedom Day - while important - has an awareness close to zero
outside the free software environment. I think that we should propose a
global promotion strategy based on a few actions (starting from an ODF
icon set, which is sorely missing), and if no one follows us then we
have the legitimate option of taking it over.

In the past, this task was given to the ODF Alliance, but with the
demise of the ODF Alliance it is unfortunately true that ODF is slowly
becoming less and less popular.

Of course, to avoid being accused of hijacking the ODF promotion by the
usual suspects, we can have FSF and FSFE launch the campaign (and host
the relevant pages).

We can ping John Sullivan and Karsten Gerloff about this idea, and get
their opinion as well.

-- 
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mob +39.348.5653829 - sip/jabber it...@libreoffice.org
skype italovignoli - hangout/jabber italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Ian Lynch]

On 17 July 2013 13:00, Immanuel Giulea  wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Charles-H. Schulz <
> charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Last you heard perhaps. I open a document on GDocs today, and I could
>> save it on ODF.
>>
>
> I was able to open an ODT (writer) file this morning.
> And I work with ODS (spreadsheet) files all the time.
> on GDocs.
> That's what I meant.

Download as odt docx rtf pdf are all available from GDoc WP here.
Download as .ods from the spreadsheet.

However there is no Impress download from the Google presentation
application, only ppt pdf and svg. I guess if Draw and Impress were
svg compliant that would solve that issue.

> Immanuel
>
>
>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>> Le Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:28:49 +0100 (BST),
>> Tom Davies  a écrit :
>>
>> > Hi :)
>> > Have you used Google-docs recently?  Last i heard, and that was just
>> > a month or so ago, Google-docs stopped allowing people to use ODF.
>> >
>> > FSF supports ODF aswell as supporting LibreOffice and TDF.  They are
>> > separate issues though.  Part of their campaign for ODF includes the
>> > crucial point that it can be used (or is even "the native format" of)
>> > quite a large range of different products. Regards from Tom :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > From: Immanuel Giulea 
>> > >To: Tom Davies 
>> > >Cc: "marketing@global.libreoffice.org"
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013,
>> > >12:13 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file
>> > >formats?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Tom Davies
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi :)
>> > >> If we were to target certain companies to try to "get them
>> > >> onboard" with ODF then it might be good to start with our own
>> > >> "supporters".  Low hanging fruit should be easier, right?
>> > >> Google-docs doesn't allow people to use ODF!!  Actually i think
>> > >> ODF usage has improved quite a bit now that MS Office supports
>> > >> it.  It's really odd to have Google as one of the remaining
>> > >> barriers!
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >I am not the biggest fan of Google, but in all fairness ODF is
>> > >supported by Google. You can open and edit ODT files. And ODS files.
>> > >As for ODP files I can't comment I never made slides on Google, I
>> > >prefer Impress.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> I think quite a few people do "Ask websites that provide editable
>> > >> files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint to alternately or additionally
>> > >> provide versions in an ODF format." and it might be good to let
>> > >> such people know that there are groups they could join that might
>> > >> help them be more effective.  OASIS and the FSF are 2 such
>> > >> organisations that would be great to promote to TDF's mailing
>> > >> lists.  An announcement now might build-up momentum.  The timing
>> > >> would be about perfect right now.
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >FSF supports LibreOffice as a free software, so it would be great.
>> > >OASIS is the backer of the OpenDocument Format (I prefer to use the
>> > >long name).
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Regards from
>> > >> Tom :)
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Other notes:
>> > >Other efforts can be done with governments.
>> > >For example NATO has adopted ODF as an international file standard,
>> > >but not all member countries have this standard themselves.
>> > >ODF is also ISO.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Cheers from Montreal
>> > >Immanuel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > From: Charles-H. Schulz 
>> > >> >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
>> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 9:59
>> > >> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF f

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Immanuel Giulea]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Charles-H. Schulz <
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

> Last you heard perhaps. I open a document on GDocs today, and I could
> save it on ODF.
>

I was able to open an ODT (writer) file this morning.
And I work with ODS (spreadsheet) files all the time.
on GDocs.
That's what I meant.

Immanuel



>
> Best,
>
> Charles.
>
>
> Le Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:28:49 +0100 (BST),
> Tom Davies  a écrit :
>
> > Hi :)
> > Have you used Google-docs recently?  Last i heard, and that was just
> > a month or so ago, Google-docs stopped allowing people to use ODF.
> >
> > FSF supports ODF aswell as supporting LibreOffice and TDF.  They are
> > separate issues though.  Part of their campaign for ODF includes the
> > crucial point that it can be used (or is even "the native format" of)
> > quite a large range of different products. Regards from Tom :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: Immanuel Giulea 
> > >To: Tom Davies 
> > >Cc: "marketing@global.libreoffice.org"
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013,
> > >12:13 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file
> > >formats?
> > >
> > >
> > >On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Tom Davies
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi :)
> > >> If we were to target certain companies to try to "get them
> > >> onboard" with ODF then it might be good to start with our own
> > >> "supporters".  Low hanging fruit should be easier, right?
> > >> Google-docs doesn't allow people to use ODF!!  Actually i think
> > >> ODF usage has improved quite a bit now that MS Office supports
> > >> it.  It's really odd to have Google as one of the remaining
> > >> barriers!
> > >>
> > >
> > >I am not the biggest fan of Google, but in all fairness ODF is
> > >supported by Google. You can open and edit ODT files. And ODS files.
> > >As for ODP files I can't comment I never made slides on Google, I
> > >prefer Impress.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> I think quite a few people do "Ask websites that provide editable
> > >> files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint to alternately or additionally
> > >> provide versions in an ODF format." and it might be good to let
> > >> such people know that there are groups they could join that might
> > >> help them be more effective.  OASIS and the FSF are 2 such
> > >> organisations that would be great to promote to TDF's mailing
> > >> lists.  An announcement now might build-up momentum.  The timing
> > >> would be about perfect right now.
> > >>
> > >
> > >FSF supports LibreOffice as a free software, so it would be great.
> > >OASIS is the backer of the OpenDocument Format (I prefer to use the
> > >long name).
> > >
> > >
> > >> Regards from
> > >> Tom :)
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >Other notes:
> > >Other efforts can be done with governments.
> > >For example NATO has adopted ODF as an international file standard,
> > >but not all member countries have this standard themselves.
> > >ODF is also ISO.
> > >
> > >
> > >Cheers from Montreal
> > >Immanuel
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > From: Charles-H. Schulz 
> > >> >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
> > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 9:59
> > >> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file
> > >> >formats?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >Hello Robinson,
> > >> >
> > >> >Le Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:29:10 -0400,
> > >> >Robinson Tryon  a écrit :
> > >> >
> > >> >> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and
> > >> >> asked us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF
> > >> >> file formats. We had a brief discussion[2] on the website
> > >> >> mailing list, and I had the idea that it might be helpful for
> > >> >> LibreOffice if we or the FSFE ran a similar campaign for ODF.
> > >> >>
> > >

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Last you heard perhaps. I open a document on GDocs today, and I could
save it on ODF. 

Best,

Charles. 


Le Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:28:49 +0100 (BST),
Tom Davies  a écrit :

> Hi :)
> Have you used Google-docs recently?  Last i heard, and that was just
> a month or so ago, Google-docs stopped allowing people to use ODF.  
> 
> FSF supports ODF aswell as supporting LibreOffice and TDF.  They are
> separate issues though.  Part of their campaign for ODF includes the
> crucial point that it can be used (or is even "the native format" of)
> quite a large range of different products. Regards from Tom :)  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > From: Immanuel Giulea 
> >To: Tom Davies  
> >Cc: "marketing@global.libreoffice.org"
> > Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013,
> >12:13 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file
> >formats?
> > 
> >
> >On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Tom Davies
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi :)
> >> If we were to target certain companies to try to "get them
> >> onboard" with ODF then it might be good to start with our own
> >> "supporters".  Low hanging fruit should be easier, right?
> >> Google-docs doesn't allow people to use ODF!!  Actually i think
> >> ODF usage has improved quite a bit now that MS Office supports
> >> it.  It's really odd to have Google as one of the remaining
> >> barriers!
> >>
> >
> >I am not the biggest fan of Google, but in all fairness ODF is
> >supported by Google. You can open and edit ODT files. And ODS files.
> >As for ODP files I can't comment I never made slides on Google, I
> >prefer Impress.
> >
> >
> >
> >> I think quite a few people do "Ask websites that provide editable
> >> files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint to alternately or additionally
> >> provide versions in an ODF format." and it might be good to let
> >> such people know that there are groups they could join that might
> >> help them be more effective.  OASIS and the FSF are 2 such
> >> organisations that would be great to promote to TDF's mailing
> >> lists.  An announcement now might build-up momentum.  The timing
> >> would be about perfect right now.
> >>
> >
> >FSF supports LibreOffice as a free software, so it would be great.
> >OASIS is the backer of the OpenDocument Format (I prefer to use the
> >long name).
> >
> >
> >> Regards from
> >> Tom :)
> >>
> >
> >
> >Other notes:
> >Other efforts can be done with governments.
> >For example NATO has adopted ODF as an international file standard,
> >but not all member countries have this standard themselves.
> >ODF is also ISO.
> >
> >
> >Cheers from Montreal
> >Immanuel
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > From: Charles-H. Schulz 
> >> >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 9:59
> >> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file
> >> >formats?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Hello Robinson,
> >> >
> >> >Le Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:29:10 -0400,
> >> >Robinson Tryon  a écrit :
> >> >
> >> >> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and
> >> >> asked us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF
> >> >> file formats. We had a brief discussion[2] on the website
> >> >> mailing list, and I had the idea that it might be helpful for
> >> >> LibreOffice if we or the FSFE ran a similar campaign for ODF.
> >> >>
> >> >> There are several directions such a campaign could take; here
> >> >> are some of my first thoughts:
> >> >>
> >> >> 1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both
> >> >> when listing files for download, or when listing system
> >> >> capabilities/allowed upload formats.
> >> >>
> >> >> (Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >There was a big debate a long time ago and the answer was that it
> >> >would not really work.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> 2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file
> >> >> for

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Have you used Google-docs recently?  Last i heard, and that was just a month or 
so ago, Google-docs stopped allowing people to use ODF.  

FSF supports ODF aswell as supporting LibreOffice and TDF.  They are separate 
issues though.  Part of their campaign for ODF includes the crucial point that 
it can be used (or is even "the native format" of) quite a large range of 
different products.  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Immanuel Giulea 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: "marketing@global.libreoffice.org"  
>Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 12:13
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?
> 
>
>On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Tom Davies  wrote:
>
>> Hi :)
>> If we were to target certain companies to try to "get them onboard" with
>> ODF then it might be good to start with our own "supporters".  Low hanging
>> fruit should be easier, right?  Google-docs doesn't allow people to use
>> ODF!!  Actually i think ODF usage has improved quite a bit now that MS
>> Office supports it.  It's really odd to have Google as one of the remaining
>> barriers!
>>
>
>I am not the biggest fan of Google, but in all fairness ODF is supported
>by Google. You can open and edit ODT files. And ODS files.
>As for ODP files I can't comment I never made slides on Google, I prefer
>Impress.
>
>
>
>> I think quite a few people do "Ask websites that provide editable files in
>> Word/Excel/PowerPoint to alternately or additionally provide versions in an
>> ODF format." and it might be good to let such people know that there are
>> groups they could join that might help them be more effective.  OASIS and
>> the FSF are 2 such organisations that would be great to promote to TDF's
>> mailing lists.  An announcement now might build-up momentum.  The timing
>> would be about perfect right now.
>>
>
>FSF supports LibreOffice as a free software, so it would be great.
>OASIS is the backer of the OpenDocument Format (I prefer to use the long
>name).
>
>
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>
>
>Other notes:
>Other efforts can be done with governments.
>For example NATO has adopted ODF as an international file standard, but not
>all member countries have this standard themselves.
>ODF is also ISO.
>
>
>Cheers from Montreal
>Immanuel
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > From: Charles-H. Schulz 
>> >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
>> >Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 9:59
>> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?
>> >
>> >
>> >Hello Robinson,
>> >
>> >Le Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:29:10 -0400,
>> >Robinson Tryon  a écrit :
>> >
>> >> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and asked
>> >> us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF file formats.
>> >> We had a brief discussion[2] on the website mailing list, and I had
>> >> the idea that it might be helpful for LibreOffice if we or the FSFE
>> >> ran a similar campaign for ODF.
>> >>
>> >> There are several directions such a campaign could take; here are some
>> >> of my first thoughts:
>> >>
>> >> 1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both when
>> >> listing files for download, or when listing system
>> >> capabilities/allowed upload formats.
>> >>
>> >> (Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)
>> >
>> >
>> >There was a big debate a long time ago and the answer was that it would
>> >not really work.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> 2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file
>> >> formats.
>> >
>> >
>> >I assume you're familiar with the Document Freedom Day? We participate
>> >to it too. But at the risk of playing the devil's advocate, we promote
>> >the use of open standards and ODF, however, promoting the use of Free
>> >Software for ODF file goes exactly against the initial purpose: open
>> >standards are open to everyone, even proprietary software. That's their
>> >value and their importance.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> 3) Ask websites that provide ODF files to link to our list of
>> >> ODF-compatible Free Software.
>> >
>> >our list --> you may rather want to have them link to the wikipedia
>

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Immanuel Giulea]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:49 AM, Tom Davies  wrote:

> Hi :)
> If we were to target certain companies to try to "get them onboard" with
> ODF then it might be good to start with our own "supporters".  Low hanging
> fruit should be easier, right?  Google-docs doesn't allow people to use
> ODF!!  Actually i think ODF usage has improved quite a bit now that MS
> Office supports it.  It's really odd to have Google as one of the remaining
> barriers!
>
> I am not the biggest fan of Google, but in all fairness ODF is supported
by Google. You can open and edit ODT files. And ODS files.
As for ODP files I can't comment I never made slides on Google, I prefer
Impress.



> I think quite a few people do "Ask websites that provide editable files in
> Word/Excel/PowerPoint to alternately or additionally provide versions in an
> ODF format." and it might be good to let such people know that there are
> groups they could join that might help them be more effective.  OASIS and
> the FSF are 2 such organisations that would be great to promote to TDF's
> mailing lists.  An announcement now might build-up momentum.  The timing
> would be about perfect right now.
>
> FSF supports LibreOffice as a free software, so it would be great.
OASIS is the backer of the OpenDocument Format (I prefer to use the long
name).


> Regards from
> Tom :)
>


Other notes:
Other efforts can be done with governments.
For example NATO has adopted ODF as an international file standard, but not
all member countries have this standard themselves.
ODF is also ISO.


Cheers from Montreal
Immanuel


>
>
>
>
>
>
> >____
> > From: Charles-H. Schulz 
> >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org
> >Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 9:59
> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?
> >
> >
> >Hello Robinson,
> >
> >Le Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:29:10 -0400,
> >Robinson Tryon  a écrit :
> >
> >> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and asked
> >> us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF file formats.
> >> We had a brief discussion[2] on the website mailing list, and I had
> >> the idea that it might be helpful for LibreOffice if we or the FSFE
> >> ran a similar campaign for ODF.
> >>
> >> There are several directions such a campaign could take; here are some
> >> of my first thoughts:
> >>
> >> 1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both when
> >> listing files for download, or when listing system
> >> capabilities/allowed upload formats.
> >>
> >> (Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)
> >
> >
> >There was a big debate a long time ago and the answer was that it would
> >not really work.
> >
> >>
> >> 2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file
> >> formats.
> >
> >
> >I assume you're familiar with the Document Freedom Day? We participate
> >to it too. But at the risk of playing the devil's advocate, we promote
> >the use of open standards and ODF, however, promoting the use of Free
> >Software for ODF file goes exactly against the initial purpose: open
> >standards are open to everyone, even proprietary software. That's their
> >value and their importance.
> >
> >>
> >> 3) Ask websites that provide ODF files to link to our list of
> >> ODF-compatible Free Software.
> >
> >our list --> you may rather want to have them link to the wikipedia
> >entry on ODF.
> >
> >>
> >> Following the concept of the PDF Readers campaign, we could get a
> >> domain like 'odf-software.org' and provide HTML and campaign
> >> badges/icons to make it trivial to link to the site.
> >
> >
> >Yes, but why should it be up to us? It could be up to the OASIS
> >Consortium and other movements to take care of that.  I sound reluctant
> >here not because I'm not interested but because it's very important to
> >realize that we are an implementor of ODF. ODF as such is vendor
> >neutral and while we ought to push the use of  ODF we cannot "take
> >over" the promotion of ODF.
> >>
> >> 4) Ask websites that provide editable files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint
> >> to alternately or additionally provide versions in an ODF format.
> >
> >
> >Preaching to the choir :-) Actually Wikipedia / Wikimedia already
> >provide the ability to create ODF documents based on a collection of
> &

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
If we were to target certain companies to try to "get them onboard" with ODF 
then it might be good to start with our own "supporters".  Low hanging fruit 
should be easier, right?  Google-docs doesn't allow people to use ODF!!  
Actually i think ODF usage has improved quite a bit now that MS Office supports 
it.  It's really odd to have Google as one of the remaining barriers!  

I think quite a few people do "Ask websites that provide editable files in 
Word/Excel/PowerPoint to alternately or additionally provide versions in an ODF 
format." and it might be good to let such people know that there are groups 
they could join that might help them be more effective.  OASIS and the FSF are 
2 such organisations that would be great to promote to TDF's mailing lists.  An 
announcement now might build-up momentum.  The timing would be about perfect 
right now.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  






>
> From: Charles-H. Schulz 
>To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 9:59
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?
> 
>
>Hello Robinson,
>
>Le Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:29:10 -0400,
>Robinson Tryon  a écrit :
>
>> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and asked
>> us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF file formats.
>> We had a brief discussion[2] on the website mailing list, and I had
>> the idea that it might be helpful for LibreOffice if we or the FSFE
>> ran a similar campaign for ODF.
>> 
>> There are several directions such a campaign could take; here are some
>> of my first thoughts:
>> 
>> 1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both when
>> listing files for download, or when listing system
>> capabilities/allowed upload formats.
>> 
>> (Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)
>
>
>There was a big debate a long time ago and the answer was that it would
>not really work.
>
>> 
>> 2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file
>> formats.
>
>
>I assume you're familiar with the Document Freedom Day? We participate
>to it too. But at the risk of playing the devil's advocate, we promote
>the use of open standards and ODF, however, promoting the use of Free
>Software for ODF file goes exactly against the initial purpose: open
>standards are open to everyone, even proprietary software. That's their
>value and their importance.  
>
>> 
>> 3) Ask websites that provide ODF files to link to our list of
>> ODF-compatible Free Software.
>
>our list --> you may rather want to have them link to the wikipedia
>entry on ODF. 
>
>> 
>> Following the concept of the PDF Readers campaign, we could get a
>> domain like 'odf-software.org' and provide HTML and campaign
>> badges/icons to make it trivial to link to the site.
>
>
>Yes, but why should it be up to us? It could be up to the OASIS
>Consortium and other movements to take care of that.  I sound reluctant
>here not because I'm not interested but because it's very important to
>realize that we are an implementor of ODF. ODF as such is vendor
>neutral and while we ought to push the use of  ODF we cannot "take
>over" the promotion of ODF. 
>> 
>> 4) Ask websites that provide editable files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint
>> to alternately or additionally provide versions in an ODF format.
>
>
>Preaching to the choir :-) Actually Wikipedia / Wikimedia already
>provide the ability to create ODF documents based on a collection of
>articles.
>
>Best,
>
>Charles.
>
>
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> --R
>> 
>> [1] http://pdfreaders.org/
>> [2] http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg11433.html
>> 
>
>
>
>-- 
>Charles-H. Schulz 
>Co-founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
>Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
>Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
>Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
>Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Charles-H. Schulz]

Hello Robinson,

Le Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:29:10 -0400,
Robinson Tryon  a écrit :

> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and asked
> us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF file formats.
> We had a brief discussion[2] on the website mailing list, and I had
> the idea that it might be helpful for LibreOffice if we or the FSFE
> ran a similar campaign for ODF.
> 
> There are several directions such a campaign could take; here are some
> of my first thoughts:
> 
> 1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both when
> listing files for download, or when listing system
> capabilities/allowed upload formats.
> 
> (Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)


There was a big debate a long time ago and the answer was that it would
not really work.

> 
> 2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file
> formats.


I assume you're familiar with the Document Freedom Day? We participate
to it too. But at the risk of playing the devil's advocate, we promote
the use of open standards and ODF, however, promoting the use of Free
Software for ODF file goes exactly against the initial purpose: open
standards are open to everyone, even proprietary software. That's their
value and their importance.  

> 
> 3) Ask websites that provide ODF files to link to our list of
> ODF-compatible Free Software.

our list --> you may rather want to have them link to the wikipedia
entry on ODF. 

> 
> Following the concept of the PDF Readers campaign, we could get a
> domain like 'odf-software.org' and provide HTML and campaign
> badges/icons to make it trivial to link to the site.


Yes, but why should it be up to us? It could be up to the OASIS
Consortium and other movements to take care of that.  I sound reluctant
here not because I'm not interested but because it's very important to
realize that we are an implementor of ODF. ODF as such is vendor
neutral and while we ought to push the use of  ODF we cannot "take
over" the promotion of ODF. 
> 
> 4) Ask websites that provide editable files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint
> to alternately or additionally provide versions in an ODF format.


Preaching to the choir :-) Actually Wikipedia / Wikimedia already
provide the ability to create ODF documents based on a collection of
articles.

Best,

Charles.


> 
> 
> Cheers,
> --R
> 
> [1] http://pdfreaders.org/
> [2] http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg11433.html
> 



-- 
Charles-H. Schulz 
Co-founder & Director, The Document Foundation,
Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24.

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Immanuel Giulea]

OASIS runs the ODF campaign here:
http://www.opendocumentformat.org/

+1 on all the ideas.


Immanuel

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Robinson Tryon
wrote:

> The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and asked
> us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF file formats.
> We had a brief discussion[2] on the website mailing list, and I had
> the idea that it might be helpful for LibreOffice if we or the FSFE
> ran a similar campaign for ODF.
>
> There are several directions such a campaign could take; here are some
> of my first thoughts:
>
> 1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both when
> listing files for download, or when listing system
> capabilities/allowed upload formats.
>
> (Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)
>
> 2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file formats.
>
> 3) Ask websites that provide ODF files to link to our list of
> ODF-compatible Free Software.
>
> Following the concept of the PDF Readers campaign, we could get a
> domain like 'odf-software.org' and provide HTML and campaign
> badges/icons to make it trivial to link to the site.
>
> 4) Ask websites that provide editable files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint
> to alternately or additionally provide versions in an ODF format.
>
>
> Cheers,
> --R
>
> [1] http://pdfreaders.org/
> [2] http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg11433.html
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: marketing+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
>

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[libreoffice-marketing] Campaign for ODF file formats?

[Robinson Tryon]

The PDF Readers campaign[1] recently contacted LibreOffice and asked
us to promote the use of Free Software readers for PDF file formats.
We had a brief discussion[2] on the website mailing list, and I had
the idea that it might be helpful for LibreOffice if we or the FSFE
ran a similar campaign for ODF.

There are several directions such a campaign could take; here are some
of my first thoughts:

1) Promote the use of standardized icons for ODF files, both when
listing files for download, or when listing system
capabilities/allowed upload formats.

(Question: Is there a standardized set of icons for ODF files?)

2) Promote the use of Free Software for reading/writing ODF file formats.

3) Ask websites that provide ODF files to link to our list of
ODF-compatible Free Software.

Following the concept of the PDF Readers campaign, we could get a
domain like 'odf-software.org' and provide HTML and campaign
badges/icons to make it trivial to link to the site.

4) Ask websites that provide editable files in Word/Excel/PowerPoint
to alternately or additionally provide versions in an ODF format.


Cheers,
--R

[1] http://pdfreaders.org/
[2] http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/msg11433.html

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