Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.

[Fabian Rodriguez]

On 10/19/2011 09:39 PM, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions wrote:
>
> In some related articles, "experts" looked at that is currently in the
> "secure boot" "option" and they have concern about what happens if MS
> controls the keys - like current plan - and hardware OEMs do not want
> to pay the "bribe" monies to MS to include their hardware in the
> accepted list.  If you buy a new video card or a new SATA controller
> or drive that is not registered with MS, that expert[s] feel that the
> secure boot system will not allow the computer to boot at all.  I
> still run across hardware that are not MS registered and I get nasty
> pop-ups warning me about installing the device and drivers since it is
> not "MS approved".  I still can install it, with hassle, but what will
> happen if I get this on a secure booted system.  Sorry the company did
> not pay the bribe and so you cannot use it.  Then there are the new
> stuff that comes out after the computer is built.  Even if they
> "register" with MS, there is no way to allow the system to boot with
> that newer hardware without a firmware upgrade.  I had one of those go
> bad with a router.  I had to through it out since it would never work
> again.
[...]

This is already being done by manufacturers:
http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-HP-ProBook-Compaq-Slate/104-Unsupported-wireless-network-device-detected/td-p/1152612

Secure Boot is only a way for every one of them to agree on a standard,
massive way of doing this.

F.


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.

[Robert Ryley]

Quote:
"If they can make a hardware "security system" that stops Linux to
work on those machine, will they be able to do the same for non-MS
software, like LO and other open source software?  What is stopping
them?  Not the law and our courts.  Their fines are pocket money.  Put
MS leadership in jail for a few years, then maybe they will stop
breaking our laws."

If you think the politicians or judges are going to protect you, I
suggest you simply look at their acts to disabuse yourself of that
notion.

There is no doubt that the secure boot could be abused by MS.  The
feature itself, isn't really a bad idea.  Trusted components should
not be easy to modify, and will make it more difficult for malware
writers and computer criminals to subvert systems.

The key question to ask is "Trusted by whom?"  Clearly, trusted by the
owner/purchaser of the system, of course!  But the big business types
just don't see it that way.

Fortunately as long as you have access to the hardware, there will
always be work arounds.  The UEFI is saved in a flash memory chip.  It
can be reprogrammed, with an open UEFI implementation that is more
"user friendly."  I suspect this is what will ultimately happen, in
the worst case scenario.

Intel already has an open source UEFI project underway.  How long do
you think it would be before the code is modified to make setting up a
dual boot system easier?

Intel UEFI project
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tianocore/index.php?title=Welcome

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.

[webmaster for Kracked Press Productions]

In some related articles, "experts" looked at that is currently in the 
"secure boot" "option" and they have concern about what happens if MS 
controls the keys - like current plan - and hardware OEMs do not want to 
pay the "bribe" monies to MS to include their hardware in the accepted 
list.  If you buy a new video card or a new SATA controller or drive 
that is not registered with MS, that expert[s] feel that the secure boot 
system will not allow the computer to boot at all.  I still run across 
hardware that are not MS registered and I get nasty pop-ups warning me 
about installing the device and drivers since it is not "MS approved".  
I still can install it, with hassle, but what will happen if I get this 
on a secure booted system.  Sorry the company did not pay the bribe and 
so you cannot use it.  Then there are the new stuff that comes out after 
the computer is built.  Even if they "register" with MS, there is no way 
to allow the system to boot with that newer hardware without a firmware 
upgrade.  I had one of those go bad with a router.  I had to through it 
out since it would never work again.


MS states it is up to the OEM computer builders and bios builders to 
"allow" the thing to be disables via a "checkbox".  It cost more to do 
that and since it has to be on or MS will not sell them their OS, some 
OEMs have stated that their current plan is not to have that option of 
disabling it.  Cost less that way.


Having something to stop those "boot loader" nasties is good, but if it 
prevents the good things from being able to work, then there is 
something wrong.  There was a statement about why should MS with 99% of 
the share be required to allow the 1% to work on the computers that have 
their logo on.  My feeling is that if this new security system prevents 
that 1% from working on legally bought systems that you want to add 
Linux onto it [dual boot or only boot] then there is some real bad legal 
issues again.  In the USA less than 1% of us are handicapped, but until 
the law was created to protect our rights, we had no legal rights to be 
able to get into government buildings, or places to cast our votes.  Our 
schools did not have to have wheelchair access, thus if you were in a 
wheelchair, you may not be able to get into the building or go to the 
floor where the class is held.  It is against the law to deny the rights 
of a minority.  Linux users are part of the OS minority.  In the later 
1880's to the 1930's and later, any Big business company that controlled 
a market and used that control to stop other businesses from being a 
part of that market, got chopped up.  Big Standard Oil was chopped up, 
and much later ATT got chopped up into smaller companies - BY LAW.  MS 
is in the same boat, but due to loopholes and big money to those with 
power in the government, MS was not required to be broken up.  So they 
control 99% of the market [they say], and now that are telling the OEMs 
that if you want to sell your products in that market, you must do 
things our way.  What is next?  MS using their market control to tell 
other markets leaders that if you do not do it our way, we will make 
sure your company will not get our products ever again?  MS controlled 
cars?  MS controlled telecom?  MS controlled Internet?  Oh wait, Linux 
systems run the Internet.


If MS is allowed to force OEMs to do it their way or not allowed to be 
in that market, then what else will they force on us down the line.  I 
want my PC running Linux now.  If I buy a system with Win 8 installed 
and decide that I would rather have Linux on that PC, then I legally 
have the right to have that option without MS telling me I cannot.  MS 
is slowly loosing market shares in the PC market [non-Mac systems].  It 
is not much, but it is there.  They are slowing loosing users to OOo and 
now LO.  If they can make a hardware "security system" that stops Linux 
to work on those machine, will they be able to do the same for non-MS 
software, like LO and other open source software?  What is stopping 
them?  Not the law and our courts.  Their fines are pocket money.  Put 
MS leadership in jail for a few years, then maybe they will stop 
breaking our laws.



On 10/19/2011 04:42 PM, Robert Ryley wrote:

I suspect the workarounds will include capturing all the needed keys,
reflashing the bios/uefi chip, and installing what you want.  It is a PITA,
but not insurmountable.  It will probably spur more open hardware, to the
detriment of those determined to lock down the system.

MS aside, uefi is a good idea.  This particular implementation is not.

On Oct 19, 2011 12:12 PM, "Ian Lynch"  wrote:

On 19 October 2011 16:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions<

webmas...@krackedpress.com>  wrote:


Please read the linked article. [below]

If Microsoft get...

I should think that is illegal under competition law.


To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot

run Linux, then it is ...

We can 

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.

[Robert Ryley]

I suspect the workarounds will include capturing all the needed keys,
reflashing the bios/uefi chip, and installing what you want.  It is a PITA,
but not insurmountable.  It will probably spur more open hardware, to the
detriment of those determined to lock down the system.

MS aside, uefi is a good idea.  This particular implementation is not.

On Oct 19, 2011 12:12 PM, "Ian Lynch"  wrote:

On 19 October 2011 16:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions <

webmas...@krackedpress.com> wrote:

>
> Please read the linked article. [below]
>
> If Microsoft get...
I should think that is illegal under competition law.


To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot
> run Linux, then it is ...
We can buy new computers, just not those that come with Windows. Might even
be an advantage since there will be a niche market in supplying hardware
that is not restricted in that way.  I might start a new business :-)

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-**
> foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-**
> uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&**tag=nl.rSINGLE<
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
><
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-**
> foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-**
> uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&**tag=nl.rSINGLE<
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE
>

> >
>
> Free Software Foundation urges OEMs to say no to mandatory Windows 8 UEFI
> cage
>
> By Stev...
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.

[Ian Lynch]

On 19 October 2011 16:59, webmaster for Kracked Press Productions <
webmas...@krackedpress.com> wrote:

>
> Please read the linked article. [below]
>
> If Microsoft gets away with this, then no computer that has a Windows 8
> logo on it will not be able to boot from free OSs like Linux.  This will be
> part of the BIOS.  You might not be able to run free software like
> LibreOffice, if it goes to the extreme end.
>

I should think that is illegal under competition law.

To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems cannot
> run Linux, then it is another anti-trust violation for MS.  Billy boy is
> going back to court about unfair practices from the 90's, so if people do
> not step up now to convince OEMs that we will not buy their products if they
> implement the free OS and software blocker at the BOOT LEVEL, then we cannot
> buy any new computers for Linux.
>

We can buy new computers, just not those that come with Windows. Might even
be an advantage since there will be a niche market in supplying hardware
that is not restricted in that way.  I might start a new business :-)

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-**
> foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-**
> uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&**tag=nl.rSINGLE<
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**open-source/free-software-**
> foundation-urges-oems-to-say-**no-to-mandatory-windows-8-**
> uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&**tag=nl.rSINGLE
> >
>
> Free Software Foundation urges OEMs to say no to mandatory Windows 8 UEFI
> cage
>
> By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols | October 18, 2011, 1:26pm PDT
>
> Summary: The Free Software Foundation is asking OEMs to give users a choice
> on Microsoft anti-Linux Windows 8's United Extensive Firmware security
> "feature."
>
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Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
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[libreoffice-marketing] MS plans to force OEMs to add boot feature that blocks use of Linux and free software.

[webmaster for Kracked Press Productions]

Please read the linked article. [below]

If Microsoft gets away with this, then no computer that has a Windows 8 
logo on it will not be able to boot from free OSs like Linux.  This will 
be part of the BIOS.  You might not be able to run free software like 
LibreOffice, if it goes to the extreme end.


To me, if MS get away with forcing OEMs to make it so their systems 
cannot run Linux, then it is another anti-trust violation for MS.  Billy 
boy is going back to court about unfair practices from the 90's, so if 
people do not step up now to convince OEMs that we will not buy their 
products if they implement the free OS and software blocker at the BOOT 
LEVEL, then we cannot buy any new computers for Linux.


http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/free-software-foundation-urges-oems-to-say-no-to-mandatory-windows-8-uefi-cage/9770?alertspromo=&tag=nl.rSINGLE 



Free Software Foundation urges OEMs to say no to mandatory Windows 8 
UEFI cage


By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols | October 18, 2011, 1:26pm PDT

Summary: The Free Software Foundation is asking OEMs to give users a 
choice on Microsoft anti-Linux Windows 8's United Extensive Firmware 
security "feature."


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