Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-31 Thread Fabian Rodriguez 

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On 12-12-31 09:32 AM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:
> In the new version of Office 2013, you will be able to:
>
>> *3. Edit PDF documents in Word 2013:* You can open a PDF in Word, and its
>> paragraphs, lists, tables, and other content act just like Word content.
>> You can make changes to the file as per your requirements and save it
back
>> again as a PDF document. (1)
>>
>
> Will LO4 Writer be able to do that?
>
>
>
> (1)
>
http://www.pc-tablet.com/11858-microsoft-office-2013-release-date-coming-10-features-office-2013/#xUK5qHZBSPEUjsZe.99
>

You can very much open any PDF in LibreOffice Draw and edit it / export
again to PDF.

More importantly (and efficiently), LibO Writer can export to PDF
*including the source ODT* in the the PDF for re-editing. I don't
believe it's enabled by default though:
http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1356970061.png

IMO including the source of the document in the PDF file is better.

AFAIK Word 2013 will convert, then let you edit the converted document
(a current feature in LibO Draw):
http://winsupersite.com/article/office/whats-coming-microsoft-word-15-142595

Fabian Rodriguez
http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-31 Thread Jay Lozier 

On 12/31/2012 09:32 AM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:

In the new version of Office 2013, you will be able to:


*3. Edit PDF documents in Word 2013:* You can open a PDF in Word, and its
paragraphs, lists, tables, and other content act just like Word content.
You can make changes to the file as per your requirements and save it back
again as a PDF document. (1)


Will LO4 Writer be able to do that?



(1)
http://www.pc-tablet.com/11858-microsoft-office-2013-release-date-coming-10-features-office-2013/#xUK5qHZBSPEUjsZe.99

Testing LO 4.0 Beta 2 - PDF files are opened directly into Draw and can 
be edited there. This is the same as before. Writer can export to PDF 
and one of the options is to embed an odt version with the PDF to 
allowing editing with Writer. From the article I think Word-2013 is 
directly opening the PDF files but the author is unclear about this point.


A couple of points about direct editing PDF files. One PDF files are 
intend to be stand alone documents for users to read and if allowed 
enter data in specific fields. Direct editing of the PDF files is by 
users is not intended or desirable. This tends to undermine the idea 
that PDF documents are reference only documents because most end users 
can not edit them. If one can edit easily the source document such as an 
ODT file in Write and Export/Save/Print as a PDF file the real 
functionality exists for the creator to revise the PDF file as needed. 
The latter has been available in LO/AOO for sometime now. With an 
embedded ODT file, any user with LO can edit the PDF file.


I think the need of the creator to modify the source document is met by 
the LO export feature. IMHO users do not need the ability to modify PDF 
files except in some extremely rare circumstances. I have never modified 
a PDF file that I received or downloaded or needed to modify the these 
files. I only have ever needed to modify the PDF files I created, which 
I can do in LO already.


Looking at the list the author gave IMHO I do not see any feature that 
is a must have. I see many that are nice-to-have but are not going to 
make me want to buy MSO 2013. IMHO this is a problem of any office suite 
(LO/AOO/MSO/etc.) that new features are almost always nice-to-have at 
best for users but not something that will make them eagerly buy or 
download the latest version. Since LO and AOO are free, it is easier for 
me to justify upgrading; it only takes a few minutes of my time to 
upgrade which can be done at my convenience.


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jsloz...@gmail.com


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-31 Thread Immanuel Giulea 
In the new version of Office 2013, you will be able to:

> *3. Edit PDF documents in Word 2013:* You can open a PDF in Word, and its
> paragraphs, lists, tables, and other content act just like Word content.
> You can make changes to the file as per your requirements and save it back
> again as a PDF document. (1)
>

Will LO4 Writer be able to do that?



(1)
http://www.pc-tablet.com/11858-microsoft-office-2013-release-date-coming-10-features-office-2013/#xUK5qHZBSPEUjsZe.99

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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-31 Thread webmaster-Kracked_P_P 

On 12/31/2012 12:46 AM, Marc Paré wrote:

Hi Immanuel,

Le 2012-12-30 08:44, Immanuel Giulea a écrit :

Hi Marc and all,


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:

I think Immanuel has offered to lead on this. I can help with 
setting up
the page. I like the good arguments on this thread. We have to make 
sure
that we are as factual as possible. MS will capitalize on any claims 
that
we make that are not factual, so we have to watch carefully over our 
claims.


Immanuel, let me know if you need any help with the wiki page.

Cheers,

Marc



I am happy to help in any way I can.
If you could be kind enough to run me through the 101 of wiki page
creation, I can get started. I've only edited 1 or 2 wiki pages in my 
life.


Immanuel



I can see you already have an account and started the page[1].

You can find "most frequently used types of wiki markup" on the 
wikimedia site and from there, there are links on the bottom of that 
page with more markup help pages.[2]


To begin with, I would type in the information/data and then 
format/beautify the page once all or most of the information is on the 
page.


I also often cruise the wiki to see pages that have been formatted a 
particular way that I like and then view the markup text to see if I 
could adapt the text to the page(s) I am working on.


Cheers,

Marc

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Selling_points_MSO
[2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing



What I do, when I work on text for a Wiki page, is type the unformatted 
text in Writer so I can get all of the spelling [and such] correct.  
Then when the text part is correct, I copy/paste it into the text 
box/window of the editing process of the Wiki page.


There are other ways of doing things.

Also, I have taken the "formatting characters" for the Wiki page and 
added it to the text while in Writer.  Sometimes it is easier that way.







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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-31 Thread Cor Nouws 

Hi Tom,

Tom Davies wrote (30-12-12 23:24)


I think contacting people in different countries just "shows off" how
widespread TDF and LO are geographically, especially if Cor can
mention a Montreal connection.


Thanks for your positive suggestion. I'll just do it. And of course hope 
that Immanual will mention the Dutch LibreOffice connection too ;-)


Cheers,


--
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 - http://nl.libreoffice.org
 - www.librelex.org


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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Marc Paré 

Hi Immanuel,

Le 2012-12-30 08:44, Immanuel Giulea a écrit :

Hi Marc and all,


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:


I think Immanuel has offered to lead on this. I can help with setting up
the page. I like the good arguments on this thread. We have to make sure
that we are as factual as possible. MS will capitalize on any claims that
we make that are not factual, so we have to watch carefully over our claims.

Immanuel, let me know if you need any help with the wiki page.

Cheers,

Marc



I am happy to help in any way I can.
If you could be kind enough to run me through the 101 of wiki page
creation, I can get started. I've only edited 1 or 2 wiki pages in my life.

Immanuel



I can see you already have an account and started the page[1].

You can find "most frequently used types of wiki markup" on the 
wikimedia site and from there, there are links on the bottom of that 
page with more markup help pages.[2]


To begin with, I would type in the information/data and then 
format/beautify the page once all or most of the information is on the 
page.


I also often cruise the wiki to see pages that have been formatted a 
particular way that I like and then view the markup text to see if I 
could adapt the text to the page(s) I am working on.


Cheers,

Marc

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Selling_points_MSO
[2] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing





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m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Cor Nouws 

Immanuel Giulea wrote (30-12-12 22:18)

Cor, if you know him already, maybe you can approach him as well. It can't
hurt to approach him from two people.


I don't know people in Montreal. But I do know people in a Dutch company 
giving OpenERP support.




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 - www.librelex.org


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Immanuel Giulea 
I asked one of the team members on the Montreal committee to make
introductions to Fabien Pinckaers, CEO at OpenERP.

I also contacted two other OpenERP providers in Montreal to get feedback
about integration. There are four in total. Two members on the Montreal
committee are from the fourth one, and I'll touch base with them in the New
Year.

Cor, if you know him already, maybe you can approach him as well. It can't
hurt to approach him from two people.


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Cor Nouws  wrote:

> Charles-H. Schulz wrote (30-12-12 14:52)
>
>  Go ahead. If my memory serves me right there was an OpenErp booth at the
>> last FOSDEM. I'll go talk to them then.
>>
>
> If it may be necessary later, I do have some contacts here in the
> Netherlands.
>
>
> --
>  - Cor
>  - http://nl.libreoffice.org
>  - www.librelex.org
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Cor Nouws 

Charles-H. Schulz wrote (30-12-12 14:52)

Go ahead. If my memory serves me right there was an OpenErp booth at the last 
FOSDEM. I'll go talk to them then.


If it may be necessary later, I do have some contacts here in the 
Netherlands.



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 - www.librelex.org


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Paolo Debortoli 
About Microsoft and Libreoffice I had seen a document  (presented in a 
conference of TDF)  with title:   "Dirty tactics against LibreOffice in public 
administration, and how to overcome them  -  Otto Kekäläinen   Free Software 
Foundation Europe – FSFE.org"  with many considerations to take into account 
(for those who don't know them).  It should be still available somewhere.

However eventually someone can talk about advanced required new features.




 From: Charles-H. Schulz 
To: "marketing@global.libreoffice.org"  
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material 
suggestion: Why LibreOffice?
 
Go ahead. If my memory serves me right there was an OpenErp booth at the last 
FOSDEM. I'll go talk to them then.

Best,

Charles.


Immanuel Giulea  a écrit :

>There was an OpenERP meetup in Montreal recently. I can get in touch
>with
>the local people here.
>
>Immanuel
>On Dec 29, 2012 5:12 PM, "Charles-H. Schulz" <
>charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Anybody knows someone at openerp? Otherwise I'l lcontact them.
>>
>> Best,
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>> Italo Vignoli  a écrit :
>>
>> >Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki
>> >page
>> >where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
>> >Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow)
>is
>> >very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
>> >good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting
>> >document.
>> >
>> >I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
>> >training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
>> >creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
>> >though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:
>> >
>> >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
>> >
>> >I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is
>the
>> >summary of the contents.
>> >
>> >Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has
>problems
>> >with the wiki.
>> >
>> >I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
>> >have finished working on the certification protocols.
>> >
>> >On 12/29/12 10:07 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:
>> >> On 12/29/2012 01:12 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:
>> >>> Well to be fair, I raised three points that seemed to me were the
>> >>> arguments of MS feature-wise.
>> >>>
>> >>> Other arguments are listed, and my suggestion was to create a new
>> >wiki
>> >>> page where we could compare (side-by-side) LO and MSO.
>> >>>
>> >>> Summary of arguments from MS against LO
>> >>>
>> >>> *Arguments about $$*
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Total costs: Business impact; like software issues,
>integration,
>> >>>     incompatibility, run-time errors, downtime, unreliable
>support
>> >and
>> >>>     security vulnerability.
>> >>>
>> >> Unreliable support? MS normally offers very limited direct user
>> >support
>> >> - 1 or 2 incidents max if I remember correctly. Most user support
>> >will
>> >> be from a help desk (internal or external). If it is from MS it is
>> >via
>> >> separate contract or additional costs to the licensing agreement.
>> >> Security is a joke because MS is notorious for shipping insecure
>> >> products. Run-time errors? What about BSOD for Windows?
>Integration
>> >and
>> >> incompatibility are very nebulous - do they mean file formats or
>> >being
>> >> able to access the program from another? The first is really MSO
>not
>> >> following standards and the later is a programming issue.
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Total benefit: Such as reliable supports, updates,
>> >accessibility,
>> >>>     and security.
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Integration cost: The cost associated when you decide to use
>a
>> >>>     different software platform.
>> >>>
>> >> Different software platform - do they mean OS? If so, LO does this
>> >> better even if the OS/distro is not officially support because the
>> >> source code is available and can be compiled by someone for a ver

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Charles-H. Schulz 
Go ahead. If my memory serves me right there was an OpenErp booth at the last 
FOSDEM. I'll go talk to them then.

Best,

Charles.


Immanuel Giulea  a écrit :

>There was an OpenERP meetup in Montreal recently. I can get in touch
>with
>the local people here.
>
>Immanuel
>On Dec 29, 2012 5:12 PM, "Charles-H. Schulz" <
>charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Anybody knows someone at openerp? Otherwise I'l lcontact them.
>>
>> Best,
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>> Italo Vignoli  a écrit :
>>
>> >Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki
>> >page
>> >where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
>> >Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow)
>is
>> >very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
>> >good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting
>> >document.
>> >
>> >I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
>> >training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
>> >creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
>> >though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:
>> >
>> >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
>> >
>> >I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is
>the
>> >summary of the contents.
>> >
>> >Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has
>problems
>> >with the wiki.
>> >
>> >I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
>> >have finished working on the certification protocols.
>> >
>> >On 12/29/12 10:07 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:
>> >> On 12/29/2012 01:12 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:
>> >>> Well to be fair, I raised three points that seemed to me were the
>> >>> arguments of MS feature-wise.
>> >>>
>> >>> Other arguments are listed, and my suggestion was to create a new
>> >wiki
>> >>> page where we could compare (side-by-side) LO and MSO.
>> >>>
>> >>> Summary of arguments from MS against LO
>> >>>
>> >>> *Arguments about $$*
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Total costs: Business impact; like software issues,
>integration,
>> >>> incompatibility, run-time errors, downtime, unreliable
>support
>> >and
>> >>> security vulnerability.
>> >>>
>> >> Unreliable support? MS normally offers very limited direct user
>> >support
>> >> - 1 or 2 incidents max if I remember correctly. Most user support
>> >will
>> >> be from a help desk (internal or external). If it is from MS it is
>> >via
>> >> separate contract or additional costs to the licensing agreement.
>> >> Security is a joke because MS is notorious for shipping insecure
>> >> products. Run-time errors? What about BSOD for Windows?
>Integration
>> >and
>> >> incompatibility are very nebulous - do they mean file formats or
>> >being
>> >> able to access the program from another? The first is really MSO
>not
>> >> following standards and the later is a programming issue.
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Total benefit: Such as reliable supports, updates,
>> >accessibility,
>> >>> and security.
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Integration cost: The cost associated when you decide to use
>a
>> >>> different software platform.
>> >>>
>> >> Different software platform - do they mean OS? If so, LO does this
>> >> better even if the OS/distro is not officially support because the
>> >> source code is available and can be compiled by someone for a very
>> >> specific platform. With MSO, if a version is not provide you have
>no
>> >> options (Linux version available).
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Management: Can it be easily managed? Large companies tend to
>> >have
>> >>> this issue because they don't have a unified system.
>> >>>
>> >> This is truly a management problem, is the management competent?
>> >>>
>> >>>   * Deployment costs: Can it handle corporate size business
>> >>> productivity? In addition to the compromise or extra benefits
>of
>> >>> software alternatives.
>> >>>
>> >> Software suitability should be determined for each case. There is
>no
>> >> blanket answer for this. MS is implying that MSO is the only
>answer
>> >for
>> >> businesses when in fact it is often not. Often the issue is that a
>> >> company has an installed base of VB macros, etc for MSO that would
>> >need
>> >> porting to LO
>> >>>
>> >>>   * OpenOffice/LibreOffice does not provide the same depth of
>> >>> functionality as Microsoft Office as a result do not meet the
>> >>> needs of some end users. This will force your organization to
>> >>> manage multiple software suites potentially increasing IT
>costs.
>> >>>
>> >> No software meets the needs of all users because all are
>> >design/feature
>> >> compromises.
>> >>>
>> >>>   * When running a mixed software environment you are also
>running
>> >the
>> >>> risk of interoperability issues which could further increase
>IT
>> >>> and helpdesk costs, inhibit productivity, and generate end
>users
>> >>> frustration.
>> >>>
>> >> Most companies standardize on the software tools as much as
>possible
>> >to

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Charles-H. Schulz 
Apologies for top posting. Marc is right. Immanuel has the lead on this but we 
will all contribute. In the end it should ideally become a nice looking page on 
our website, nof just a wiki page. 

Thanks Immanuel!

Charles.


"Marc Paré"  a écrit :

>Hi Italo and Immanuel,
>
>Le 2012-12-29 16:49, Italo Vignoli a écrit :
>> Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki
>page
>> where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
>> Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow) is
>> very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
>> good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting
>document.
>>
>> I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
>> training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
>> creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
>> though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:
>>
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
>>
>> I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is
>the
>> summary of the contents.
>>
>> Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has
>problems
>> with the wiki.
>>
>> I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
>> have finished working on the certification protocols.
>>
>
>I think Immanuel has offered to lead on this. I can help with setting
>up 
>the page. I like the good arguments on this thread. We have to make
>sure 
>that we are as factual as possible. MS will capitalize on any claims 
>that we make that are not factual, so we have to watch carefully over 
>our claims.
>
>Immanuel, let me know if you need any help with the wiki page.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Marc
>
>-- 
>Marc Paré
>m...@marcpare.com
>http://www.parEntreprise.com
>parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
>parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Immanuel Giulea 
Hi Marc and all,


On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:

> I think Immanuel has offered to lead on this. I can help with setting up
> the page. I like the good arguments on this thread. We have to make sure
> that we are as factual as possible. MS will capitalize on any claims that
> we make that are not factual, so we have to watch carefully over our claims.
>
> Immanuel, let me know if you need any help with the wiki page.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>

I am happy to help in any way I can.
If you could be kind enough to run me through the 101 of wiki page
creation, I can get started. I've only edited 1 or 2 wiki pages in my life.

Immanuel

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[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-30 Thread Marc Paré 

Hi Italo and Immanuel,

Le 2012-12-29 16:49, Italo Vignoli a écrit :

Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki page
where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow) is
very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting document.

I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing

I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is the
summary of the contents.

Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has problems
with the wiki.

I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
have finished working on the certification protocols.



I think Immanuel has offered to lead on this. I can help with setting up 
the page. I like the good arguments on this thread. We have to make sure 
that we are as factual as possible. MS will capitalize on any claims 
that we make that are not factual, so we have to watch carefully over 
our claims.


Immanuel, let me know if you need any help with the wiki page.

Cheers,

Marc

--
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m...@marcpare.com
http://www.parEntreprise.com
parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF)
parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-29 Thread Immanuel Giulea 
There was an OpenERP meetup in Montreal recently. I can get in touch with
the local people here.

Immanuel
On Dec 29, 2012 5:12 PM, "Charles-H. Schulz" <
charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:

> Anybody knows someone at openerp? Otherwise I'l lcontact them.
>
> Best,
> Charles.
>
>
> Italo Vignoli  a écrit :
>
> >Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki
> >page
> >where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
> >Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow) is
> >very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
> >good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting
> >document.
> >
> >I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
> >training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
> >creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
> >though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:
> >
> >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
> >
> >I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is the
> >summary of the contents.
> >
> >Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has problems
> >with the wiki.
> >
> >I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
> >have finished working on the certification protocols.
> >
> >On 12/29/12 10:07 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:
> >> On 12/29/2012 01:12 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:
> >>> Well to be fair, I raised three points that seemed to me were the
> >>> arguments of MS feature-wise.
> >>>
> >>> Other arguments are listed, and my suggestion was to create a new
> >wiki
> >>> page where we could compare (side-by-side) LO and MSO.
> >>>
> >>> Summary of arguments from MS against LO
> >>>
> >>> *Arguments about $$*
> >>>
> >>>   * Total costs: Business impact; like software issues, integration,
> >>> incompatibility, run-time errors, downtime, unreliable support
> >and
> >>> security vulnerability.
> >>>
> >> Unreliable support? MS normally offers very limited direct user
> >support
> >> - 1 or 2 incidents max if I remember correctly. Most user support
> >will
> >> be from a help desk (internal or external). If it is from MS it is
> >via
> >> separate contract or additional costs to the licensing agreement.
> >> Security is a joke because MS is notorious for shipping insecure
> >> products. Run-time errors? What about BSOD for Windows? Integration
> >and
> >> incompatibility are very nebulous - do they mean file formats or
> >being
> >> able to access the program from another? The first is really MSO not
> >> following standards and the later is a programming issue.
> >>>
> >>>   * Total benefit: Such as reliable supports, updates,
> >accessibility,
> >>> and security.
> >>>
> >>>   * Integration cost: The cost associated when you decide to use a
> >>> different software platform.
> >>>
> >> Different software platform - do they mean OS? If so, LO does this
> >> better even if the OS/distro is not officially support because the
> >> source code is available and can be compiled by someone for a very
> >> specific platform. With MSO, if a version is not provide you have no
> >> options (Linux version available).
> >>>
> >>>   * Management: Can it be easily managed? Large companies tend to
> >have
> >>> this issue because they don't have a unified system.
> >>>
> >> This is truly a management problem, is the management competent?
> >>>
> >>>   * Deployment costs: Can it handle corporate size business
> >>> productivity? In addition to the compromise or extra benefits of
> >>> software alternatives.
> >>>
> >> Software suitability should be determined for each case. There is no
> >> blanket answer for this. MS is implying that MSO is the only answer
> >for
> >> businesses when in fact it is often not. Often the issue is that a
> >> company has an installed base of VB macros, etc for MSO that would
> >need
> >> porting to LO
> >>>
> >>>   * OpenOffice/LibreOffice does not provide the same depth of
> >>> functionality as Microsoft Office as a result do not meet the
> >>> needs of some end users. This will force your organization to
> >>> manage multiple software suites potentially increasing IT costs.
> >>>
> >> No software meets the needs of all users because all are
> >design/feature
> >> compromises.
> >>>
> >>>   * When running a mixed software environment you are also running
> >the
> >>> risk of interoperability issues which could further increase IT
> >>> and helpdesk costs, inhibit productivity, and generate end users
> >>> frustration.
> >>>
> >> Most companies standardize on the software tools as much as possible
> >to
> >> reduce these costs. However no single program/suite will cover all
> >user
> >> needs so to some degree there will be a mixed software environment.
> >>>
> >>>   * Additional factors that could create higher costs include
> >>> integration with your existing systems and applications like E

Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-29 Thread Charles-H. Schulz 
Anybody knows someone at openerp? Otherwise I'l lcontact them.

Best,
Charles.


Italo Vignoli  a écrit :

>Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki
>page
>where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
>Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow) is
>very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
>good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting
>document.
>
>I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
>training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
>creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
>though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:
>
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing
>
>I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is the
>summary of the contents.
>
>Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has problems
>with the wiki.
>
>I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
>have finished working on the certification protocols.
>
>On 12/29/12 10:07 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:
>> On 12/29/2012 01:12 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:
>>> Well to be fair, I raised three points that seemed to me were the
>>> arguments of MS feature-wise.
>>>
>>> Other arguments are listed, and my suggestion was to create a new
>wiki
>>> page where we could compare (side-by-side) LO and MSO.
>>>
>>> Summary of arguments from MS against LO
>>>
>>> *Arguments about $$*
>>>
>>>   * Total costs: Business impact; like software issues, integration,
>>> incompatibility, run-time errors, downtime, unreliable support
>and
>>> security vulnerability.
>>>
>> Unreliable support? MS normally offers very limited direct user
>support
>> - 1 or 2 incidents max if I remember correctly. Most user support
>will
>> be from a help desk (internal or external). If it is from MS it is
>via
>> separate contract or additional costs to the licensing agreement.
>> Security is a joke because MS is notorious for shipping insecure
>> products. Run-time errors? What about BSOD for Windows? Integration
>and
>> incompatibility are very nebulous - do they mean file formats or
>being
>> able to access the program from another? The first is really MSO not
>> following standards and the later is a programming issue.
>>>
>>>   * Total benefit: Such as reliable supports, updates,
>accessibility,
>>> and security.
>>>
>>>   * Integration cost: The cost associated when you decide to use a
>>> different software platform.
>>>
>> Different software platform - do they mean OS? If so, LO does this
>> better even if the OS/distro is not officially support because the
>> source code is available and can be compiled by someone for a very
>> specific platform. With MSO, if a version is not provide you have no
>> options (Linux version available).
>>>
>>>   * Management: Can it be easily managed? Large companies tend to
>have
>>> this issue because they don't have a unified system.
>>>
>> This is truly a management problem, is the management competent?
>>>
>>>   * Deployment costs: Can it handle corporate size business
>>> productivity? In addition to the compromise or extra benefits of
>>> software alternatives.
>>>
>> Software suitability should be determined for each case. There is no
>> blanket answer for this. MS is implying that MSO is the only answer
>for
>> businesses when in fact it is often not. Often the issue is that a
>> company has an installed base of VB macros, etc for MSO that would
>need
>> porting to LO
>>>
>>>   * OpenOffice/LibreOffice does not provide the same depth of
>>> functionality as Microsoft Office as a result do not meet the
>>> needs of some end users. This will force your organization to
>>> manage multiple software suites potentially increasing IT costs.
>>>
>> No software meets the needs of all users because all are
>design/feature
>> compromises.
>>>
>>>   * When running a mixed software environment you are also running
>the
>>> risk of interoperability issues which could further increase IT
>>> and helpdesk costs, inhibit productivity, and generate end users
>>> frustration.
>>>
>> Most companies standardize on the software tools as much as possible
>to
>> reduce these costs. However no single program/suite will cover all
>user
>> needs so to some degree there will be a mixed software environment.
>>>
>>>   * Additional factors that could create higher costs include
>>> integration with your existing systems and applications like ERP
>>> and content management systems and software updates.
>>>
>> This is more of issue with the ERP and CMS software not LO per se.
>They
>> can support LO if required by contract or if the vendor desires.
>>>
>>>   * *LibreOffice*/OpenOffice *does not allow for incremental
>software
>>> updates. *Instead it requires a complete uninstall and reinstall
>>> every time you need to update the software.
>>>
>> How difficul

[libreoffice-marketing] Re: [us-marketing] Marketing material suggestion: Why LibreOffice?

2012-12-29 Thread Italo Vignoli 
Sorry for top posting, but I think that the idea of creating a wiki page
where we can brainstorm about the selling points for Windows (as
Microsoft document is focused on Windows, which is their cash cow) is
very good. All the points that have been raised so far are extremely
good, and I think that we should pick them and paste in a starting document.

I am currently working at the final version of the migration and
training protocol for certification, and I do not have the time for
creating this wiki page for a few days. Anyone could create the page
though, in the Marketing area of TDF wiki:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing

I would call the page "Selling Point vs MS Office", because this is the
summary of the contents.

Marc can definitely help in creating the page, if someone has problems
with the wiki.

I am definitely interested in helping with the contents, once I will
have finished working on the certification protocols.

On 12/29/12 10:07 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:
> On 12/29/2012 01:12 PM, Immanuel Giulea wrote:
>> Well to be fair, I raised three points that seemed to me were the
>> arguments of MS feature-wise.
>>
>> Other arguments are listed, and my suggestion was to create a new wiki
>> page where we could compare (side-by-side) LO and MSO.
>>
>> Summary of arguments from MS against LO
>>
>> *Arguments about $$*
>>
>>   * Total costs: Business impact; like software issues, integration,
>> incompatibility, run-time errors, downtime, unreliable support and
>> security vulnerability.
>>
> Unreliable support? MS normally offers very limited direct user support
> - 1 or 2 incidents max if I remember correctly. Most user support will
> be from a help desk (internal or external). If it is from MS it is via
> separate contract or additional costs to the licensing agreement.
> Security is a joke because MS is notorious for shipping insecure
> products. Run-time errors? What about BSOD for Windows? Integration and
> incompatibility are very nebulous - do they mean file formats or being
> able to access the program from another? The first is really MSO not
> following standards and the later is a programming issue.
>>
>>   * Total benefit: Such as reliable supports, updates, accessibility,
>> and security.
>>
>>   * Integration cost: The cost associated when you decide to use a
>> different software platform.
>>
> Different software platform - do they mean OS? If so, LO does this
> better even if the OS/distro is not officially support because the
> source code is available and can be compiled by someone for a very
> specific platform. With MSO, if a version is not provide you have no
> options (Linux version available).
>>
>>   * Management: Can it be easily managed? Large companies tend to have
>> this issue because they don't have a unified system.
>>
> This is truly a management problem, is the management competent?
>>
>>   * Deployment costs: Can it handle corporate size business
>> productivity? In addition to the compromise or extra benefits of
>> software alternatives.
>>
> Software suitability should be determined for each case. There is no
> blanket answer for this. MS is implying that MSO is the only answer for
> businesses when in fact it is often not. Often the issue is that a
> company has an installed base of VB macros, etc for MSO that would need
> porting to LO
>>
>>   * OpenOffice/LibreOffice does not provide the same depth of
>> functionality as Microsoft Office as a result do not meet the
>> needs of some end users. This will force your organization to
>> manage multiple software suites potentially increasing IT costs.
>>
> No software meets the needs of all users because all are design/feature
> compromises.
>>
>>   * When running a mixed software environment you are also running the
>> risk of interoperability issues which could further increase IT
>> and helpdesk costs, inhibit productivity, and generate end users
>> frustration.
>>
> Most companies standardize on the software tools as much as possible to
> reduce these costs. However no single program/suite will cover all user
> needs so to some degree there will be a mixed software environment.
>>
>>   * Additional factors that could create higher costs include
>> integration with your existing systems and applications like ERP
>> and content management systems and software updates.
>>
> This is more of issue with the ERP and CMS software not LO per se. They
> can support LO if required by contract or if the vendor desires.
>>
>>   * *LibreOffice*/OpenOffice *does not allow for incremental software
>> updates. *Instead it requires a complete uninstall and reinstall
>> every time you need to update the software.
>>
> How difficult are Windows/Mac updates? I use Linux. I am not sure this
> is a major issue if the updates are handle uninstall/reinstall without
> user intervention.
> 
> The cost argument is mostly bogus because it ignores the
> purchase/lice