Re: [Marketing] The End of Sugar (thought exercise)

[Dave Crossland]

On 23 June 2016 at 22:01, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 8:55 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>> On 23 June 2016 at 10:31, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>> > Perhaps we should ask marketing to do a SWOT (Strengths Weaknesses
>> > Opportunities Threats) analysis.
>>
>> Welcome to the marketing team. Please start a document and I'll add to it
>> :)
>
>
Would you like me to start the document?


> > However we might not have enough funds for
>> > more than an online survey of current/past users and indirect friends
>> of the
>> > project.
>>
>> I already have survey listed in https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/2016_Goals
>> :)
>>
>> If we had $10,000 to spend on "marketing," how would you spend it?
>
>

Well given we seemed to have scared off Sugar's historical marketing
> expert,


lol


> I have no idea what a fair usage of $10,000 would be, or how it might be
> subdivided.


Fair enough. You said "we might not have enough funds for more than
[something]" which implied to me that you had ideas for things we _could_
do with funding and were discounting them as out of the question, and I
wanted you to not be shy about your ideas about how to use funds :)


> Not everyone wants to work on Sugar like it is a tech startup with a brick
> on the accelerator and the brakes disconnected.


LOL :)

I said that it would be good to get Sugar back to where it was, not that we
should seek venture capital and pursue user growth at the expense of all
other metrics.

I am confused why you would say "stop the bleeding!" and a moment later say
you don't want to get Sugar back to where it was.
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Re: [Marketing] The End of Sugar (thought exercise)

[Dave Crossland]

On 23 June 2016 at 10:44, Walter Bender  wrote:
>> Perhaps we should ask marketing to do a SWOT (Strengths Weaknesses
>> Opportunities Threats) analysis.  However we might not have enough funds for
>> more than an online survey of current/past users and indirect friends of the
>> project.
>
>
> I recall we went through such an exercise a few years back...  we should do
> it again.

Can anyone find the results of this exercise?

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?search=SWOT=Special%3ASearch=Go
turns up blank.
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[Marketing] Fw: Marketing Digest, Vol 86, Issue 28

[Ifeanyi Peter]

 up.
>
> Well, here is me and Samson eager to volunteer and get things going.
>
> If you want to "assign" tasks to us, we might say that we don't take
> orders. Sure. But if you want to work with us to list all the possible
> tasks, and to prioritise them, and then to do these tasks yourself and
> ask us to join you in doing them, then I expect we will be happy to
> join you.
>
> Samson, do you agree?
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:21:47 -0400
From: Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com>
To: Samuel Greenfeld <sam...@greenfeld.org>
Cc: Sugar Labs Marketing <marketing@lists.sugarlabs.org>
Subject: Re: [Marketing] The End of Sugar (thought exercise)
Message-ID:
    

Re: [Marketing] [SLOBS] [IAEP] Fwd: Google for Nonprofits Affiliation Request Sent

[Sean DALY]

Dave - I did already, see the threads
Sean


On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi Sean
>
> Sincerel I'm sorry to hear that.
>
> Please do share with us the old marketing strategy, I am keen to see it :)
>
> Cheers
> Dave
> On Jun 23, 2016 7:21 AM, "Sean DALY"  wrote:
>
>> OK Dave, you're the new Marketing Coordinator!
>>
>> Perhaps it's best that I bow out and become just an interested observer.
>> I just don't have the time to explain marketing fundamentals and also
>> develop strategy and execution.
>>
>> thanks & good luck
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sean
>>>
>>> On 22 June 2016 at 15:37, Sean DALY  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > We agree on using Google AdWords, but no work has been done on
>>> communication
>>> > strategy, and although I am thrilled there is interest in marketing, I
>>> am
>>> > also very concerned that more emphasis seems to be on the media rather
>>> than
>>> > the message, and my requests that this be worked on before starting
>>> > campaigns aren't leading anywhere.
>>>
>>> Where you've requested this be worked on, Samson has got back to you
>>> with a proposal document, and there have been comments from members.
>>>
>>> If you want to lead the marketing effort, I think its incumbent upon
>>> you to either ask Samson to go over the feedback he got and use it to
>>> improve his proposal document and share a new version, if that is the
>>> next step you think he should take; or, to draft your own document
>>> that lays out the strategy that you think we ought to be working on
>>> together, and solicit comments on it.
>>>
>>> Do you see alternative actions to take to lead this somewhere? I'm
>>> eager to hear them :)
>>>
>>> If you agree those 2 paths forward would be good, please take one.
>>>
>>> > It's true that I am more interested in marketing to teachers than
>>> recruiting
>>> > FLOSS developers, but with social media it's more important than ever
>>> to
>>> > have an integrated plan.
>>>
>>> If you want an integrated plan, please work with Samson and myself and
>>> all other members to create one :)
>>>
>>> I am also waiting for a reply to my email asking you to provide links
>>> to the plans written in the past.
>>>
>>> > Dave, if this doesn't make sense to you, you can coordinate marketing
>>> from
>>> > now on, I'm not sure I have the energy to repeat myself over and over.
>>> I can
>>> > only say I know what works and what doesn't, and randomness in
>>> marketing
>>> > doesn't.
>>>
>>> I don't think Samson and I are opposed to following your lead.
>>>
>>> If you think our approach is 'random,' then please do work on a
>>> structured approach with us.
>>>
>>> Rather, I think what Samson and I are opposed to is inaction; you said
>>> on the call the other day -
>>> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Vision_proposal_2016/Call_1 - that you
>>> have been "mystified" for the last 2-3 years on how to market Sugar,
>>> that in the early days you developed a good strategy - which I am yet
>>> to read - but a crisis developed in how to get tasks that you think
>>> needed to be done to become completed within a volunteer community.
>>> You didn't do them yourself, and no one did them, and so the marketing
>>> aspects of Sugar have dried up.
>>>
>>> Well, here is me and Samson eager to volunteer and get things going.
>>>
>>> If you want to "assign" tasks to us, we might say that we don't take
>>> orders. Sure. But if you want to work with us to list all the possible
>>> tasks, and to prioritise them, and then to do these tasks yourself and
>>> ask us to join you in doing them, then I expect we will be happy to
>>> join you.
>>>
>>> Samson, do you agree?
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Marketing] [SLOBS] [IAEP] Fwd: Google for Nonprofits Affiliation Request Sent

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Sean

Sincerel I'm sorry to hear that.

Please do share with us the old marketing strategy, I am keen to see it :)

Cheers
Dave
On Jun 23, 2016 7:21 AM, "Sean DALY"  wrote:

> OK Dave, you're the new Marketing Coordinator!
>
> Perhaps it's best that I bow out and become just an interested observer. I
> just don't have the time to explain marketing fundamentals and also develop
> strategy and execution.
>
> thanks & good luck
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>> Hi Sean
>>
>> On 22 June 2016 at 15:37, Sean DALY  wrote:
>> >
>> > We agree on using Google AdWords, but no work has been done on
>> communication
>> > strategy, and although I am thrilled there is interest in marketing, I
>> am
>> > also very concerned that more emphasis seems to be on the media rather
>> than
>> > the message, and my requests that this be worked on before starting
>> > campaigns aren't leading anywhere.
>>
>> Where you've requested this be worked on, Samson has got back to you
>> with a proposal document, and there have been comments from members.
>>
>> If you want to lead the marketing effort, I think its incumbent upon
>> you to either ask Samson to go over the feedback he got and use it to
>> improve his proposal document and share a new version, if that is the
>> next step you think he should take; or, to draft your own document
>> that lays out the strategy that you think we ought to be working on
>> together, and solicit comments on it.
>>
>> Do you see alternative actions to take to lead this somewhere? I'm
>> eager to hear them :)
>>
>> If you agree those 2 paths forward would be good, please take one.
>>
>> > It's true that I am more interested in marketing to teachers than
>> recruiting
>> > FLOSS developers, but with social media it's more important than ever to
>> > have an integrated plan.
>>
>> If you want an integrated plan, please work with Samson and myself and
>> all other members to create one :)
>>
>> I am also waiting for a reply to my email asking you to provide links
>> to the plans written in the past.
>>
>> > Dave, if this doesn't make sense to you, you can coordinate marketing
>> from
>> > now on, I'm not sure I have the energy to repeat myself over and over.
>> I can
>> > only say I know what works and what doesn't, and randomness in marketing
>> > doesn't.
>>
>> I don't think Samson and I are opposed to following your lead.
>>
>> If you think our approach is 'random,' then please do work on a
>> structured approach with us.
>>
>> Rather, I think what Samson and I are opposed to is inaction; you said
>> on the call the other day -
>> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Vision_proposal_2016/Call_1 - that you
>> have been "mystified" for the last 2-3 years on how to market Sugar,
>> that in the early days you developed a good strategy - which I am yet
>> to read - but a crisis developed in how to get tasks that you think
>> needed to be done to become completed within a volunteer community.
>> You didn't do them yourself, and no one did them, and so the marketing
>> aspects of Sugar have dried up.
>>
>> Well, here is me and Samson eager to volunteer and get things going.
>>
>> If you want to "assign" tasks to us, we might say that we don't take
>> orders. Sure. But if you want to work with us to list all the possible
>> tasks, and to prioritise them, and then to do these tasks yourself and
>> ask us to join you in doing them, then I expect we will be happy to
>> join you.
>>
>> Samson, do you agree?
>>
>
>
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Re: [Marketing] The End of Sugar (thought exercise)

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Samuel Greenfeld 
wrote:

> Historically there have been several organizations financially supporting
> Sugar development.
>
> But at least some of those have left, others have reduced their
> contributions, and it is unclear to me if any new groups have made
> significant tangible investments in the project.
>
> The XO laptop and icon, both commonly associated with Sugar, are OLPC
> trademarks.  There is nothing stopping anyone from licensing these and
> putting applications in the Android/Apple/Chromebook stores claiming to be
> "Based on Sugar" with a new "Journal" interface.
>
> In short: Sugar is having trouble expanding beyond its current territory,
> or at least publicly appears to be.
>
> So this week I thought of a couple of questions:
>
>- What would cause you and/or your school(s) to stop using Sugar?
>- What would another project have to offer in order for it to be used
>instead?
>- When would it be a good idea to move everyone to a new project?
>- Under what circumstances should Sugar Labs be shutdown?
>
> If we can answer these questions, maybe we can reform Sugar to better meet
> these competitive challenges.
>
>
I guess I have a different vision of Sugar than you. I am interested in our
creating a best-of-breed pedagogical framework what hopefully will see wide
dissemination in schools, but also will show the way forward for the ed
tech community as a whole, which I think tends to focus on market share
more than learning outcomes. What I would like from marketing is some
mechanism for highlighting the powerful ideas in Sugar that seem to be
lacking in most other systems so that even if a school decides to go with a
different product/project, they put pressure on that project to provide
tools, not apps, collaboration, transparency, self reflection and group
critique, and responsibility on the shoulders of students and teachers to
shape their own world. So personally, I find your questions irrelevant to
my goals.

-walter

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>
>


-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [Marketing] [SLOBS] [IAEP] Fwd: Google for Nonprofits Affiliation Request Sent

[Sean DALY]

OK Dave, you're the new Marketing Coordinator!

Perhaps it's best that I bow out and become just an interested observer. I
just don't have the time to explain marketing fundamentals and also develop
strategy and execution.

thanks & good luck

Sean


On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 6:41 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi Sean
>
> On 22 June 2016 at 15:37, Sean DALY  wrote:
> >
> > We agree on using Google AdWords, but no work has been done on
> communication
> > strategy, and although I am thrilled there is interest in marketing, I am
> > also very concerned that more emphasis seems to be on the media rather
> than
> > the message, and my requests that this be worked on before starting
> > campaigns aren't leading anywhere.
>
> Where you've requested this be worked on, Samson has got back to you
> with a proposal document, and there have been comments from members.
>
> If you want to lead the marketing effort, I think its incumbent upon
> you to either ask Samson to go over the feedback he got and use it to
> improve his proposal document and share a new version, if that is the
> next step you think he should take; or, to draft your own document
> that lays out the strategy that you think we ought to be working on
> together, and solicit comments on it.
>
> Do you see alternative actions to take to lead this somewhere? I'm
> eager to hear them :)
>
> If you agree those 2 paths forward would be good, please take one.
>
> > It's true that I am more interested in marketing to teachers than
> recruiting
> > FLOSS developers, but with social media it's more important than ever to
> > have an integrated plan.
>
> If you want an integrated plan, please work with Samson and myself and
> all other members to create one :)
>
> I am also waiting for a reply to my email asking you to provide links
> to the plans written in the past.
>
> > Dave, if this doesn't make sense to you, you can coordinate marketing
> from
> > now on, I'm not sure I have the energy to repeat myself over and over. I
> can
> > only say I know what works and what doesn't, and randomness in marketing
> > doesn't.
>
> I don't think Samson and I are opposed to following your lead.
>
> If you think our approach is 'random,' then please do work on a
> structured approach with us.
>
> Rather, I think what Samson and I are opposed to is inaction; you said
> on the call the other day -
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Vision_proposal_2016/Call_1 - that you
> have been "mystified" for the last 2-3 years on how to market Sugar,
> that in the early days you developed a good strategy - which I am yet
> to read - but a crisis developed in how to get tasks that you think
> needed to be done to become completed within a volunteer community.
> You didn't do them yourself, and no one did them, and so the marketing
> aspects of Sugar have dried up.
>
> Well, here is me and Samson eager to volunteer and get things going.
>
> If you want to "assign" tasks to us, we might say that we don't take
> orders. Sure. But if you want to work with us to list all the possible
> tasks, and to prioritise them, and then to do these tasks yourself and
> ask us to join you in doing them, then I expect we will be happy to
> join you.
>
> Samson, do you agree?
>
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Re: [Marketing] [SLOBS] [IAEP] Fwd: Google for Nonprofits Affiliation Request Sent

[samson goddy]

yeah, +1 on that dave. Dave says it all!

> From: d...@lab6.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 00:41:42 -0400
> To: sdaly...@gmail.com
> CC: marketing@lists.sugarlabs.org; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org; 
> samsongo...@gmail.com; walter.ben...@gmail.com; sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] [SLOBS] [IAEP] Fwd: Google for Nonprofits
> Affiliation Request Sent
> 
> Hi Sean
> 
> On 22 June 2016 at 15:37, Sean DALY  wrote:
> >
> > We agree on using Google AdWords, but no work has been done on communication
> > strategy, and although I am thrilled there is interest in marketing, I am
> > also very concerned that more emphasis seems to be on the media rather than
> > the message, and my requests that this be worked on before starting
> > campaigns aren't leading anywhere.
> 
> Where you've requested this be worked on, Samson has got back to you
> with a proposal document, and there have been comments from members.
> 
> If you want to lead the marketing effort, I think its incumbent upon
> you to either ask Samson to go over the feedback he got and use it to
> improve his proposal document and share a new version, if that is the
> next step you think he should take; or, to draft your own document
> that lays out the strategy that you think we ought to be working on
> together, and solicit comments on it.
> 
> Do you see alternative actions to take to lead this somewhere? I'm
> eager to hear them :)
> 
> If you agree those 2 paths forward would be good, please take one.
> 
> > It's true that I am more interested in marketing to teachers than recruiting
> > FLOSS developers, but with social media it's more important than ever to
> > have an integrated plan.
> 
> If you want an integrated plan, please work with Samson and myself and
> all other members to create one :)
> 
> I am also waiting for a reply to my email asking you to provide links
> to the plans written in the past.
> 
> > Dave, if this doesn't make sense to you, you can coordinate marketing from
> > now on, I'm not sure I have the energy to repeat myself over and over. I can
> > only say I know what works and what doesn't, and randomness in marketing
> > doesn't.
> 
> I don't think Samson and I are opposed to following your lead.
> 
> If you think our approach is 'random,' then please do work on a
> structured approach with us.
> 
> Rather, I think what Samson and I are opposed to is inaction; you said
> on the call the other day -
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Vision_proposal_2016/Call_1 - that you
> have been "mystified" for the last 2-3 years on how to market Sugar,
> that in the early days you developed a good strategy - which I am yet
> to read - but a crisis developed in how to get tasks that you think
> needed to be done to become completed within a volunteer community.
> You didn't do them yourself, and no one did them, and so the marketing
> aspects of Sugar have dried up.
> 
> Well, here is me and Samson eager to volunteer and get things going.
> 
> If you want to "assign" tasks to us, we might say that we don't take
> orders. Sure. But if you want to work with us to list all the possible
> tasks, and to prioritise them, and then to do these tasks yourself and
> ask us to join you in doing them, then I expect we will be happy to
> join you.
> 
> Samson, do you agree?
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