[Marxism] Evidence that the insurgent National Union of Health Care Workers(NUHW) is alive and well
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == They are alive and well doesn't mean they are alive and well at Kaiser. NUHW lost pretty clearly during the representative elections last year. It was a major defeat and I don't know if they have the organizational and funding to try again. They did win a 800 person unit iat Sutter Healthcare in San Francisco, giving them a vital foothold in the most important city in UHW-SEIU territory. The battle between the unions is not over. I think their time is running out. Once SEIU rejoins the AFL-CIO, NUHW's ability to get support from from other affiliates will disappear. Rightnow most progressives in the unions and the unions themselves support NUHW. DW Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Evidence that the insurgent National Union of Health Care Workers(NUHW) is alive and well
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The defeat is being challenged, after it became clear that SEIU was working with Kaiser illegally. If the election had happen much sooner, NUHW would have won. Also workers in Michigan have petitioned to join the NUHW. The successes of NUHW are successes for the broader labor movement. I am still optimistic, especially since the hospital industry is one of the healthiest (not saying a lot) sections of the labor movement, as Kim Moody describes in his recent Against the Current article. Robin. Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2011, at 6:40 AM, DW dwalters...@gmail.com wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == They are alive and well doesn't mean they are alive and well at Kaiser. NUHW lost pretty clearly during the representative elections last year. It was a major defeat and I don't know if they have the organizational and funding to try again. They did win a 800 person unit iat Sutter Healthcare in San Francisco, giving them a vital foothold in the most important city in UHW-SEIU territory. The battle between the unions is not over. I think their time is running out. Once SEIU rejoins the AFL-CIO, NUHW's ability to get support from from other affiliates will disappear. Rightnow most progressives in the unions and the unions themselves support NUHW. DW Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/redasheville%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Samir Amin on Qaddafi
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == If any of these people had been issuing warnings about such a likelihood before 2011, they could be taken more seriously. You're obviously right. But you forget an important fact: this war was prepared and launched in a few weeks. Also the public opinion in western countries was - so to speak - prepared for war in a couple of weeks, using the real uprising against Gaddafi and a lot of false news. I would add that this rapid deployment of mainstream media is one of the most important factors in this war - and a quite astonishing one. A lesson for all us, for the future. VG Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Heaviest bombing of war in Tripoli, Pres. invites rebels to D.C
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.salon.com/news/libya/index.html?story=/news/feature/2011/05/24/ml _libya_13 Tuesday, May 24, 2011 08:43 ET NATO airstrikes hit Tripoli, heaviest bombing yet By DIAA HADID and MICHELLE FAUL, Associated Press Photo Caption: Sky over Tripoli, Libya, is illuminated by explosions during an airstrike, early Tuesday. NATO pounded the capital with more 20 airstrikes Tuesday in its most intense bombardment yet against Moammar Gadhafi's stronghold of Tripoli, while a senior U.S. diplomat said President Barack Obama has invited the Libyan rebels' National Transitional Council to open an office in Washington. The international community has been stepping up airstrikes and diplomatic efforts against the regime in a bid to break a virtual stalemate, with the rebels in the east and Gadhafi maintaining his hold on most of the west. The NATO airstrikes hit in rapid succession within a half-hour time span, setting off a series of explosions and sending up plumes of acrid-smelling smoke from an area around Gadhafi's sprawling Bab al-Aziziya compound in central Tripoli. Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said at least three people were killed and dozens wounded in NATO strikes that targeted what he described as buildings used by volunteer units of the Libyan army. NATO said in a statement that a number of precision-guided weapons hit a vehicle storage facility adjacent to Bab al-Aziziya that has been used to supply regime forces conducting attacks on civilians. It was not immediately clear if the facility was the only target hit in the barrage. Bab al-Aziziya, which includes a number of military facilities, has been pounded repeatedly by NATO strikes. At the Tripoli Central Hospital, the bodies of three mangled men in their twenties lay on stretchers, their clothing ripped and their faces partially blown away. A nurse, Ahmad Shara, told reporters taken on a government-escorted visit to the facility soon after the strikes that the men were standing outside their homes when they were killed, presumably by shrapnel. One man who identified himself as a relative walked into the room where the bodies lay. He halted at their sight, turned around and pounded a wall as he cried out in despair. Around 10 other men and women lay on stretchers. They appeared moderately to lightly wounded. We thought it was the day of judgment, said Fathallah Salem, a 45-year-old contractor who rushed his 75-year-old mother to the hospital after she suffered shock. He said his home trembled, his mother fainted and the youngest of seven children screamed in terror at the sound of the rolling explosions. You were in the hotel and you were terrified by the shaking -- imagine what it was like for the people who live in slums! Salem told a crowd of foreign reporters at the hospital. Honestly, we used to have problems (with the regime), he said in Arabic. But today we are all Moammar Gadhafi. The U.S. launched the international air campaign on March 19 after the passage of a U.N. Security Council resolution to protect civilians after Gadhafi sent his forces to crush the public uprising against his rule. NATO, which has taken over the airstrikes, says it has been doing its best to minimize the risk of collateral damage. The alliance has been escalating and widening the scope of its strikes over the past weeks, increasing the pressure on Gadhafi, while many countries have built closer ties with the rebel movement that has control of the eastern half of Libya. In a significant new deployment of firepower, France and Britain will bring in attack helicopters for use in the airstrikes, French Defense Minister Gerard Longuet said Monday. That marks a new strategy for NATO, which has seen Gadhafi's forces adapt, often turning to urban fighting to make strikes by fighter planes more difficult. Nimble, low-flying helicopters can more easily carry out precision strikes than jets, but they are also more vulnerable to ground fire. The alliance has had no military deaths since it began enforcing a no-fly zone on March 31. Meanwhile, Jordan announced Tuesday that it was recognizing the rebels' National Transitional Council as the legitimate representative of the Libyan people and would soon name a permanent envoy in Benghazi, Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh. Several other countries, including France and Italy, have recognized the rebel administration, while the United States, European Union and others have established a diplomatic presence in Benghazi. Jeffrey Feltman, assistant secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, stopped short of formally recognizing the council in his remarks Tuesday, but said it was credible voice of the Libyans. We are not talking to Gadhafi and his people. They are not talking to us. They have
Re: [Marxism] Samir Amin on Qaddafi
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 5/24/11 11:53 AM, Vladimiro Giacche' wrote: You're obviously right. But you forget an important fact: this war was prepared and launched in a few weeks. Also the public opinion in western countries was - so to speak - prepared for war in a couple of weeks, using the real uprising against Gaddafi and a lot of false news. I would add that this rapid deployment of mainstream media is one of the most important factors in this war - and a quite astonishing one. A lesson for all us, for the future. I don't question the demonization of Qaddafi, the CIA ties to elements of the self-elected leadership, etc. What I question is the notion that the West and Libya were on some type of Milosevic collision course. There are all sorts of desperate attempts to paint Qaddafi as an anti-imperialist hero. Such a bid is only possible by flushing 10 years of history into the memory toilet. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] DSK: The value of not jumping to conclusions
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Despite its general liberal approach, lawyer Patricia Williams makes a lot of valid points here, from the standpoint of the democratic rights of both the reported victim and the alleged perp. Fred Feldman Published on The Nation (http://www.thenation.com) L'Affaire DSK: The Perp Walk That Demeaned Us All Patricia J. Williams | May 24, 2011 When Dominique Strauss-Kahn first mulled over the idea of running for President of France, he professed concern that his vulnerabilities in the coming election would be the trifecta of money, women, his being Jewish. In the week since a housekeeper at New York's Sofitel Hotel alleged that he assaulted and attempted to rape her, all three of those elements have converged to render any thought of a political future for Strauss-Kahn entirely beside the point. On the surface, Strauss-Kahn's troubles are all about women. He has long had a reputation for salacious advances. On one hand, therefore, it's tempting to assume the present accusations fit him as in character. On the other hand, given his prominence and the seismic stakes for the European Union, his well-advertised randiness, in the opinion of many, renders him the world's easiest fall guy. On the surface, furthermore, the case can be framed as one individual charging another with sexual crimes, period. Strauss-Kahn has been arrested, pleaded not guilty, released on bail, put under house detention. Ostensibly, he will be presumed innocent until a trial allows all the facts to be presented in an orderly fashion, witnesses to testify, motives to be assessed, credibility to be evaluated, irrelevant and extraneous information to be barred from consideration. Unfortunately, what has unfolded is not that simple. The international media frenzy has all but obliterated any space for a presumption of innocence; and it has relentlessly impugned both Strauss-Kahn and his accuser in broad, vulgar stereotypes-not only about sex, but about wealth, Guinean colonials, socialism, fame, French masculinity, American Puritanism, Muslim women, Jewish identity and Africans as bearers of HIV. It will be very hard to see justice done against a backdrop of so much roiling passion, rumor-mongering and pure projection. The deliverance of due process requires restraint, not just in the media but among the citizens of America and of the world. So I would like to offer some modest caveats as this case proceeds through the digestive tract of a world obsessed with celebrity dirt. First, we do not know what happened. We can choose to believe what we want, but it serves no civic purpose to allow one's personal hunches to stand in the way of being open to the specific evidence-based possibilities that will be presented in a court of law. For example, French intellectual Bernard Henri-Levy [1]'s publicly stated conviction that a proper first-class maid never cleans alone is spectacularly boneheaded. Even if it were true that housekeepers traveled only in brigades, it's a generalization, a stereotype, irrelevant to whether DSK committed the crimes of which he is accused. At the same time, it is no less reflexively patronizing to conclude, as many women apparently have, that solely because the accuser is female or an immigrant or poor or Muslim or a widow that she could ever be anything other than truthful. And that is indeed all we know about her-that she is a poor Muslim widow from Guinea. Nor, of course, should we know much more about her identity, as a matter of due process. But, again, that process requires patience for victims' stories to be played out in the appropriate place and time; it is not an invitation to plug the holes in our knowledge with bold imaginings. Secondly, it is Dominique Strauss-Kahn who has been charged in this matter. It is not his wealth that is on trial, nor French effeteness or socialism or the International Monetary Fund. Rape and assault are committed by aggressors at every level of society-rich and poor-and on every continent. It is specious to opine, as did Ben Stein [2], that DSK couldn't have done it because he's a fat, old man and, besides, who ever heard of an economist being a rapist. It is just as specious to assume that he must have done it because all French men are supposedly sexist pigs. And it is nothing less than distressing to see racist speculation in the blogosphere that the accuser is another Tawana Brawley; or Ann Coulter's twittered sneer that DSK's accuser is Muslim, he's Jewish, so now DSK is claiming that he raped in self-defense. Thirdly, none of these observations preclude a clear, and clearly separate, analysis of misogyny in French or American political culture. Indeed, it's well past time for French women to ratchet up the debate about their relative lack of representation
[Marxism] Agreement Signed for Democratic Rights in Honduras
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Dear Friends, Published on my website today, Agreement Signed for Democratic Rights in Honduras reports on a sweeping accord between the government in Honduras illegitimately established by a pro-U.S. military coup in 2009 and the resistance movement that has coordinated the popular campaign to restore democratic rights. The agreement was co-signed by the presidents of Venezuela and Colombia, who facilitated negotiations between the deposed Honduran president and his de facto replacement. See http://johnriddell.wordpress.com. To be notified of new posts, type your email into the box in the website's right-hand column. John Riddell Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] DSK: The value of not jumping to conclusions
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I don't really think that DSK's being Jewish has any significance for the millions of French people who, according to most opinion polls, were ready to vote for him in the coming presidential elections. Indeed, I personally have never heard ANY reference to his Jewishness being brought up in conversations with coworkers, fellow café patrons, family, friends or street bystanders. I recall quite distinctly many people expressing their concerns that the head of the IMF - who had overseen Greece's rough-handling - would quite naturally implement extreme austerity measures were he to be elected. Quite frankly, to most French people, the fact that he was the head of the IMF was DSK's greatest liability, not the fact that he was Jewish. I believe DSK himself new that he would have to distance himself vigorously from the IMF in the months leading up to the election, because of the very negative image that international institution has in the eyes of the French. His whole strategy revolved around showing him to be a progressive force within the IMF, who tried hard to get the institution to change its neo-liberal/Friedmanite/neo-monetarist policies, but eventually failed because of the stupidity and arrogance of US policy-makers. The man who tried to reform global finance, the man who was recognized as doing a good job in trying to change IMF policies, ergo, the man most suited for becoming the next French president. The whole Jewish thing is frankly preposterous. Like saying that Al Gore lost in 2000 because Joe Lieberman was the Democratic vice-president nominee. Again, I NEVER HEARD, READ or SAW ANYTHING that might suggest that Strauss-Kahn's Jewish identity could seriously prevent him from becoming the next French president. It just never came up, AT ALL. And another Socialist candidate, Fabius, is also Jewish. And ex-Socialist candidate Lionel Jospin was Protestant (in a Catholic country). It all reeks of the obsession certain agenda-setting members of the American Jewish community have of depicting France as an Anti-Semitic nation. Regardless of the fact that opinion polls consistently show that French people are no more anti-semitic than American people. The opinion poll used by a certain segment of the American Jews to demonstrate European rabid anti-semitism is the famous 2006 poll in which respondents from various European countries were asked the following question : Do you believe Jews have too much power in the business world ?. Well, France actually came after Germany, Belgium and the UK in anti-semitism, with Germany 35%, Belgium 34%, UK 25%, France 24%, Spain 23%, Switzerland 18%. I do not know if a comparable poll has been conducted in the US. However, many American Jews have gone on a rampage accusing France of being a nation of closet Anti-Semites, though some observers feel that this accusation may have more to do with France's (moderately) pro-Palestinian stance. Since Sarkozy was elected, ties with Israel have been strengthened, and much less is heard about French Anti-Semitism in the US media. Another fact worth mentioning, is that Israelis who emigrated to Israel from France are the most prone to leave Israel after a few years and move back to France. Apparently, the cultural gap is quite difficult to bridge for French Jews trying to integrate into Israeli society. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] gazing upon the bitch-goddess
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == FYI, review of James Gleick’s The Information: A History, A Theory, A Flood. http://www.popmatters.com/pm/review/141398-the-information-a-history-a-theory-a-flood-by-james-gleick/ Paula Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Mubarak to Face Trial for Killing of Protesters
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == ** David D. Kirkpatrick, The New York Times News Service: Egypt's top prosecutor on Tuesday ordered former President Hosni Mubarak to stand trial in connection with the killing of unarmed protesters during the 18-day-revolt that forced him from power, yielding to one of the revolution's top demands just days before many of its organizers had vowed to return to Tahrir Square for another day of protest. http://www.truthout.org/mubarak-face-trial-killing-protesters/1306261275 Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Five animated features from 2010
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Reviews of: 1. How to Train Your Dragon 2. Toy Story 3 3. The Illusionist 4. Legend of the Guardians 5. Despicable Me A guide for Marxists on what to watch with their children or grandchildren. http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/five-animated-features-from-2010/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Netanyahu's address
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I've just watched Netanyahu's address to the US congress and simply can't believe my eyes. Netanyahu said : the Palestinian refugee question will be settled OUTSIDE THE STATE OF ISRAEL and, from what I could see, ALL the congressmen and women rose to their feet to give him a long standing ovation. Netanyahu said : We will be generous but WE WILL NOT RETURN TO THE 1967 BORDER and, from what I could see, ALL the congressmen and women rose to their feet to give him a long standing ovation. Netanyahu said : Israelis are not occupiers as Israel is the ANCESTRAL HOMELAND OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE and, from what I could see, ALL the congressmen and women rose to their feet to give him a long standing ovation. Astonishing. I, as a French person, really had no idea how far the US is ready to publicly applaud positions that are actually to the hawkish-right of the Israeli political spectrum. This was not AIPAC, this was the US congress as a whole. Those images bewilder Europeans (and the rest of the world) who are more or less in favour of some sort of 2-states solution. We already knew that the US gave $3 billion a year to Israel (half of which is actually recouped through armament deals). But honestly, I don't think I was prepared for just such a blatant show of extreme Zionism on the part of the US congress. Just shows how ignorant I am of the world we live in. So my question is, how did ordinary Americans react to Bibi's speech and the Congress's thunderous applauses ? Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Netanyahu's address
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There was an old German radical I knew in Chicago, who had been in the Sparakusbund back in the Weimar republic. He work the morning after the Reichstag fire to the jackboots coming down the street. Since he already knew he could get nothing by going to the USSR (other than a free trip back to Germany), he made his way west and wound up in Chicago. There, he married a German woman and returned to Germany in 1936 for the Olympics. I'll never forget the look of disgust on his face when he described how the American section of the stands stood for the Horst Wessel song and saluted the Fuhrer. Never let their short-sightedness and stupidity surprise us. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Economics of Imperialism blog
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Hey, that's great news. Tony wrote some fantastic stuff back in the late 70s and early 80s in RCPapers and then in 'Analysis', so it's great to see him back writing stuff like this. I've only skimmed The Economics of british Imperialism, but it looks excellent. Nice antidote to all the left-nationaist tripe about Britain being bossed aorund by Washington as well! I look forward to reading a lot more from him. Phil -- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 23:39:28 +0100 From: Paul Flewers trusscott.foundat...@blueyonder.co.uk To: marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Subject: [Marxism] New Marxist Economics Blog Message-ID: BANLkTikHGjNZuvC_wVk3uDc=asexhlj...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 My friend Tony Norfield has just launched his Economics of Imperialism Blog http://economicsofimperialism.blogspot.com/ with the posting 'The Economics of British Imperialism'. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism-Thaxis] Which way to socialism?
http://peoplesworld.org/which-way-to-socialism/ I want to further comment on Chris' comment on Sam Webb's last article , but I've been busy lately. Will try to get to it in the next couple of days. Here's more on socialism Charles Which way to socialism? assets/Uploads/_resampled/CroppedImage6060-sam.jpg by: Sam Webb May 23 2011 tags: socialism, capitalism, democracy WhichWay2 In the folklore of my home state, Maine, a story goes that a lost traveler trying to get to a tiny rural town asks two old men sitting on the porch of a country store, Which way to East Vassalboro? The two men look at each other and then one replies, You can't get theyah from heeah. Hopefully, if asked about the road to socialism, people of socialist inclinations can give a better answer than the two Mainers did to the lost traveler. While any answer will be speculative to a degree, it still is a question that socialist-minded people have to address. So here is what I think. The transition to socialism will be a complex and long process. There will be pauses as well as surges. Unforeseen events will upset political calculations on both sides of the class and social divide. Advances will combine with setbacks. Momentum will shift hands. One phase of struggle will give way to another. And turning points will occur during which the balance of power will shift decisively in favor of the working class and its allies. Working people - those who create the wealth, make things run, invent new technologies, educate our children, care for the sick and build the future - will democratize and transform the state - the government structures, courts, military. But of crucial importance is that, at the same time, they will also breathe democratic life into every sphere and institution of society. All this will hinge on building up the political and organizational capacity of the working class and its allies, on sustained mobilizations at the grassroots and nationwide, on an ability to resist and block attempts to illegally and unconstitutionally reverse working class and people's power, and on a sound strategic policy at each stage of struggle. It will also depend on the presence of an experienced, tactically flexible, and united leadership (including parties and social movements) that fights for breadth of alliances, takes advantage of the slightest differences among its adversaries, seizes the initiative, shapes the popular discourse, adopts timely and appropriate policies, and above all, fights for broad working class and people's unity. In recent years, radical social transformations have occurred in relatively peaceful circumstances in Latin America. In a number of countries, an organized and overwhelming majority of working-class and indigenous people led by left coalitions (in which communists are a part) have democratically won political positions in state structures and then utilized them to isolate elites, dislodge discredited neoliberal governments, and enact democratic and socialist measures. The left and socialist movement in the United States should study these experiences closely. Broadly speaking, the transition to socialism in the U.S., I would argue, will likely follow (and we should struggle for) a similar path, differences notwithstanding. The traditional imagery of the revolutionary process - economic breakdown, insurrection, dual power, bloody clashes, smash the state, and direct path and quick rollout of socialism - provides few insights in the present era. In fact, it is disabling strategically, it dulls and dumbs down the socialist imagination, and it fails to understand the overriding necessity of a peaceful (which does not mean passive) transition in today's world. Rather than one insurrectionary event - the great revolutionary day - a series of turning points will define the road to socialism. During these turning points, the relationship of forces, structure of the economy, and people's consciousness will change quantitatively and qualitatively. In other words, the transition period to socialism will be composed of multiple building-block moments in a protracted process, during which socialist relations will become organically embedded, in a certain sense naturalized, in the politics, economics and culture of our society. Underlying this outlook is the notion that the state isn't simply a monolithic and seamless (capitalist) class bloc and weapon to be employed against the forces of anti-capitalist and socialist change. While the capitalist class is dominant over the capitalist state, the state is filled with internal contradictions and is a site of class and democratic struggles. It is not just any site, though, but a crucial and decisive site that the movement for radical change ignores at its peril. Thus the nature of the struggle isn't the people against the state as is sometimes suggested. Rather an overriding task is to win positions and influence in the state through mass democratic
[Marxism-Thaxis] Rothbard : there never will be socialism
http://peoplesworld.org/which-way-to-socialism#PageComment_16084 The transition to socialism will simply never happen, and the time when it might have occurred in the so-called First World is long past, and will never see the light of day again. (Of course, we'll still have misguided statist policies and crony capitalism, of the sort that caused the Crash of 2008.) Marx' analysis of historical inevitability is correct, it's just his conclusions that are wrong. This is primarily because his entire edifice is built on the woefully incorrect Labor Theory of Value. When economic subjectivism arrived, Marx had no answer, and never completed any more volumes of Kapital. In any case, it is the market order that is everywhere raising the standard of living of the masses, because it serves the masses better than any system of coercion-based central planning could. (And this goes for syndicalism, too.) People want to live better lives, and slowly they are getting it. The market order has stages, too, but in the final stage the mass of people will simply be too wealthy, pampered, and well-fed to want to have socialism. There is already a small group on the left who grasps this: the environmentalists. They are seeing the standard of living rise in many third world countries, and to them it is calamitous, because it means more of the earth's resources are being used up unsustainably. While their analysis is wrong because it doesn't understand the role of prices in an economy, at least they are honest enough to admit that people in some areas of the world *are* getting richer. Posted by Rothbard, 05/23/2011 7:24pm (21 hours ago) ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Rothbard : there never will be socialism
How doomed to pessimism is belief that attitudes, positional (status symbol?)economics someone clued mr in, is more powerful than humans exchanging time being bossed for pay Peggy Powell Dobbins Sociology as an Art Form www.peggydobbins.net In the long history of humankind (and animal kind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed. - Charles Darwin On May 24, 2011, at 3:38 PM, c b cb31...@gmail.com wrote: http://peoplesworld.org/which-way-to-socialism#PageComment_16084 The transition to socialism will simply never happen, and the time when it might have occurred in the so-called First World is long past, and will never see the light of day again. (Of course, we'll still have misguided statist policies and crony capitalism, of the sort that caused the Crash of 2008.) Marx' analysis of historical inevitability is correct, it's just his conclusions that are wrong. This is primarily because his entire edifice is built on the woefully incorrect Labor Theory of Value. When economic subjectivism arrived, Marx had no answer, and never completed any more volumes of Kapital. In any case, it is the market order that is everywhere raising the standard of living of the masses, because it serves the masses better than any system of coercion-based central planning could. (And this goes for syndicalism, too.) People want to live better lives, and slowly they are getting it. The market order has stages, too, but in the final stage the mass of people will simply be too wealthy, pampered, and well-fed to want to have socialism. There is already a small group on the left who grasps this: the environmentalists. They are seeing the standard of living rise in many third world countries, and to them it is calamitous, because it means more of the earth's resources are being used up unsustainably. While their analysis is wrong because it doesn't understand the role of prices in an economy, at least they are honest enough to admit that people in some areas of the world *are* getting richer. Posted by Rothbard, 05/23/2011 7:24pm (21 hours ago) ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis ___ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
