[Marxism] Outline of US reactionaries supporting Ron Paul

[jay rothermel]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


While these are clearly negligible figures, as is Ron Paul,
it does paint a fascinating picture of
current US reactionary leadership.

http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mccalla/top-10-racist-ron-paul-friends-supporters/

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Help me find biography by Engels

[padmajashaw]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Thank you. But is there a longer version/ book? 
This is helpful too.
Padmaja


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Occupy Cleveland

[jay rothermel]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


 Occupy Cleveland Gets an Office  Dec 28, 2011 at 1:22 PM

Occupy Cleveland has no intention of giving up its tent village on Public
Square, but it has succumbed to the corporate trappings of a real office.
The group moved into rented space in the City Club building about two weeks
ago and plans to throw a public office-warming party as soon as security
issues are worked out.

“We are very proud to be in the City Club — the citadel of free speech,”
says Occupy’s Leatrice Tolls. “It behooves us to have a permanent base of
operations indoors.” Besides, the incessant holiday music at Public Square
was proving to be a detriment to effective meetings. “It’s the same four
songs over and over,” she says.

For now, the office serves as a warm spot for volunteers to discuss their
various causes. Occupy Cleveland is paying the rent out of its pool of
donations, which Tolls says is considerable. The group is also penning a
request for additional funds from the granddaddy of the movement: Occupy
Wall Street, which apparently is doing gangbuster business.

Whether or not Occupy Cleveland gets an extra $20 grand from New York, it
plans to keep its focus on foreclosures. “A big tooth in our pitchfork is
the foreclosure issue here in Cleveland,” Tolls says. A last-minute Occupy
campout last month successfully delayed one West Side foreclosure, but the
group would like to spend more on programs to help homeowners avert
foreclosure well in advance of the sheriff’s arrival.

Other vestiges of Corporations Gone Wrong on the agenda are environmental
issues like fracking for natural gas, and maybe Walmart. “We don’t like
Walmart too much,” says Tolls. “There may be some things we focus on with
them.”


http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/12/28/occupy-cleveland-gets-an-office

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Mark Lause]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


What gobbledy goop!   I don't know what disturbs me more--if you really
believe that you're giving me an honest response or if you just don't
care.

I ask serious questions to get you to clarify what YOU wrote, and you
answer by asking other questions, the kind that apply to the problems of
the Norwood Chess club . . . or maybe the York rite freemasons in
Cincinnati . . . not to be confused with those phony baloney Scottish Rite
characters . . .

In any event, it's a way of telling me to fuck off with my questions.  Who
is anyone not in the club to question unexplained assertions.

Fair enough.  You obviously don't have to clarify what you wrote here if
you don't want to do so.

ML

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Louis Proyect]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 12/28/11 4:15 PM, Adam Proctor wrote:

Left orgs are nothing other than the congealed history of ongoing answers to 
the above questions--that is, if theyre worthy of the name.



That's pretty much what I heard from George Novack back in 1951 when we 
were apprentice welders at Westinghouse in NJ. He called them the 
collective memory of the working class. Who used the term congealed 
history? I rather like that, even if it makes no sense.



Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Adam Proctor]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


That's a cute story, Louis, really.  But it gets to the core of your problem: 
it's not 1968, nor is SWP nonsense still the prevailing wind of the socialist 
left in the US.  

Mark: I'll answer you questions with questions...
Let's start very simply.  1. How do you get people into a room? 2. How do you 
keep them in that room? 3. How do you make decisions collectively?  4. How do 
you act cohesively in an accountable and responsible manner?  

These are elementary questions, but they're important in that they speak to the 
necessities of shared historical analysis, organizational principles, 
representation and accountability.  Who counts? Who votes? Who gets a say in 
the decision making process?  Why should we be bound to act on the decisions of 
the majority?  Why should I listen to you?   

Left orgs are nothing other than the congealed history of ongoing answers to 
the above questions--that is, if theyre worthy of the name.

-A

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
> 
> 
> I like the ISO very much and see it as being among a small number of groups
> that inhabit American realities on the Planet Earth, but your answer
> disturbs me.
> 
> Since you put the can of worms here, you can't seriously object to my
> asking about the biggest one that's sunning itself right on the top of your
> post--what you describe as"common historical understandings, ideologies,
> tactical strategies, principles, organizational forms, etc--and claim that
> such common forms are absolutely necessary and cannot be conjured away by
> 'broad-based' calls for unity among the left. "
> 
> This asserts is that it is "absolutely necessary" to maintain a body of
> "common historical understandings, ideologies, tactical strategies,
> principles, organizational forms" that might be dissolved into a broader
> united current.
> 
> Setting aside whether any "tactical strategies" and "organizational forms"
> are "absolutely necessary" in the canonical sense they're being presented
> here, let's just explore he rest of this . . .
> 
> 1. What understandings, ideologies, and principles are so "absolutely
> necessary" to  preserve?
> 
> 2. Why can they only be preserved through the existence of your (or any)
> organization?
> 
> ML
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at: 
> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/proctorvt%40gmail.com


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Help me find biography by Engels

[Einde O'Callaghan]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 28.12.2011 18:01, padmajashaw wrote:

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I will be grateful if someone can provide a link to Engel's biography of Karl 
Marx.
I found only the brief abstract on Marxism.org site. Have I missed something?
Please help!


Is this what you're looking for:



Einde O'Callaghan


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Louis Proyect]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 12/28/11 3:30 PM, Mark Lause wrote:

I like the ISO very much and see it as being among a small number of groups
that inhabit American realities on the Planet Earth, but your answer
disturbs me.



I think that Adam is a bit like I was back in 1968 after I joined the 
SWP. I was so thrilled to be in such a great organization that I never 
turned down the opportunity to tell our opponents how fucked up they 
were. Other comrades would have to drag me away from the Guardian 
Newspaper tables at antiwar conferences where I was berating them about 
the centrality of the working class and why Trotsky was correct against 
Stalin. I had such missionary zeal that I would even work on the 
programmers at Met Life where I had my first job. Fortunately, they knew 
well enough to ignore me, although the guy who sat behind me--Huey, a 
retired fireman from Staten Island--seemed to enjoy me going on about 
imperialism. Who knows. Maybe he was with Sinn Fein at some point.



Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Occupy, squat, nowhere to go, when you ain't got squat, squat!

[Anthony Boynton]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


*Some homeless say they won't leave illegal camp site*

By Bill Lindelof and Ed Fletcher blinde...@sacbee.com

Published: Wednesday, Dec. 28, 2011 - 9:16 am

Last Modified: Wednesday, Dec. 28, 2011 - 11:54 am



A showdown appears to be brewing as Sacramento police officers evict 150
homeless people from an illegal campground along the American River.



While most of the homeless appear to be complying with orders to pack up
their tents and move somewhere else, some say they will stand their ground
and face arrest because they have no place else to go.



The confrontation started about 8 a.m. Wednesday when around 40 police
officers arrived at the site near the intersection of North 10th Street and
the American River. The campers were warned earlier this month that
eviction was imminent.



"They asked me what I'm going to do," said "Brother" Eli, a camp elder. "I
said 'I don't have anywhere to go.' "



Recent efforts by city officials have added nearly 60 additional shelter
beds for homeless men and women, but more than that number are camping at
the American River site.



"We are going to try to get everyone out peacefully," said Andrew Pettit, a
spokesman for the Sacramento Police Department.



So far Wednesday, it appeared things were going smoothly, but Pettit had no
answer to the looming question. "Where are they going to go?" Pettit said.
"We don't have the answer to that."



Pettit acknowledged that the campers will likely move to another wooded
spot along the American River.



One of those campers, Raymond Dutrieville, 47, said today he would sleep
outside somewhere else tonight. Dutrieville, who said he has a mental
disability, lacks a security deposit to move into one accommodation and
claims he is getting the run-around in his attempts to find a room at a
downtown hotel.



Dutrieville said he has been camping at the site since October. He has two
tents, one for sleeping, the other for storage.



"I have to go mobile," said Dutrieville.



The new beds offered by the city are the result of a meeting last week
between City Council members Steve Cohn and Jay Schenirer, along with
homeless advocates, members of the faith community and downtown business
leaders.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Adam Proctor]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Though your use of "turf-consciousness" seems somewhat pejorative, I both
acknowledge its existence--if, by that, mean common historical
understandings, ideologies, tactical strategies, principles, organizational
forms, etc--and claim that such common forms are absolutely necessary and
cannot be conjured away by "broad-based" calls for unity among the left.
Seriously, what is "the left"?  This part/whole conversation is crucial,
and one that's as old as the beginning of philosophy.

Is the "left" an abstract formation of left orgs that should simply disband
for the sake of a larger, more inclusive formation?  Or is the "left" a
dynamic, active process of individuals working collectively in order to
fight the necessary battles against racism, imperialism, sexism, bigotry,
labor exploitation, environmental degradation and so on?  Is the "left"
Marxist, Leninist, Trotskyist, anarchists or something more vaguely
progressive?   We all have our answers -- and these answers comprise the
totality of, exactly, what the "left" is, today.   It's a work in progress.
  It strikes me that calling for a broad left (as Binh and Proyect have
recently) only sees the movement in its abstract totality.  My contention
is that the real "existence" of the left, or any "totality", is in the
actual workings of its parts.  Conjuring away the parts will not render a
more unified totality.

In leaving Hegel behind for the moment (or forever), Louis' analysis simply
does not reflect what is going on at the ground level of Occupy movements
across the country.Left orgs such as ISO, SA, Solidarity!, etc. are
working together in nonsectarian fashion to further this movement every
day.   This org vs org model is not a part of reality right now.   What
these orgs ARE doing (including my own ISO branch) is recruiting, training,
and educating the next generation of militant lefty activists.  That's the
real work of "the left" today, whatever that is...


But now I've opened a rather large can of worms that I do no intend to fish
with.

-A



On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Mark Lause  wrote:

> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> So, Adam, do you flatly deny the existence of any turf-consciousness within
> Left organizations or simply believe it plays no role in the failure to
> move towards some common perspective?
>
> ML
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
> Set your options at:
> http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/proctorvt%40gmail.com
>

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Iraq in retrospect

[Louis Proyect]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 12/28/11 1:04 PM, Kenneth Morgan wrote:

I could have sworn that all of the different resistance groups did agree on
one thing: "US out of Iraq." So then Louis your position was that since the
US ousted the Sunnis then the war and occupation were a good thing?


Don't put fucking words in my mouth, dude. I already said that the SWP, 
despite all its flaws, had it right in the 1960s when it fought against 
attempts to introduce "Victory to the NLF" type slogans into the 
coalition. That's what I said, not that the occupation was a "good 
thing". For that matter, as I also said, the NLF was part of the workers 
movement and had a remarkable knack for generating sympathy. A war of 
liberation that included constant bombings against Shia religious 
pilgrims, etc. was one calculated to undercut such sympathies.



So basically what you're arguing is that only pure and pristine resistance
movements have a right to exist?


No, I am not saying that. I am saying that there were illusions in a 
Sunni resistance that folded like a cheap suitcase as soon as the U.S. 
figured out that the sheiks could be bought off.



Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Mark Lause]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


So, Adam, do you flatly deny the existence of any turf-consciousness within
Left organizations or simply believe it plays no role in the failure to
move towards some common perspective?

ML

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Iraq in retrospect

[Kenneth Morgan]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Louis Proyect wrote:

In fact the antiwar movement went into a steep decline after the armed
struggle began. The reasons for this are far too complex to go into here,
but the use of IED's by scattered, decentralized guerrillas who never put
forward a program for national emancipation has a lot to do with it.

However, my main point in writing this article was to caution the left
against picking "good guys" from afar on the basis of where they stand in
relationship to American military
power.
Both the Shias and the Sunnis found it useful at one point or another to
collaborate with imperialism. To gain national emancipation, you have to
put forward a class-based program"


I could have sworn that all of the different resistance groups did agree on
one thing: "US out of Iraq." So then Louis your position was that since the
US ousted the Sunnis then the war and occupation were a good thing? Yes the
anti war movement went into decline, but opposition to the US occupation in
Iraq did increase. Every patriotic Americans worst nightmare is an opponent
who can fight back.  Had there been a "peaceful" occupation, there would
have been very little resistance on the part of the US public.

So basically what you're arguing is that only pure and pristine resistance
movements have a right to exist? The only legitimate resistance for the
Iraqis was an internet discussion list? Kinda difficult without electricity.
I suspect this article is an excuse for ISO bashing, 6 years after events.
At the risk of over stating the obvious, had there been no US war or
occupation, there would have been no resistance..

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Foucault and the revolutionary self-castration of the Left

[Adam Proctor]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Stuart,

In your selective quotation/refutation of my earlier post, you managed to
completely butcher and misapprehend my larger point.   I'm a charitable
guy, so I'll assume that this is because I failed to explain it correctly
(and not because you failed to include the most important parts of my
argument in your selected quotes).

The whole point of that, admittedly, half-assed "phenomenology" of
left-wing organizing was to show that Louis and Binh's call for a broad
left grouping does not take into account the necessary problems of actual,
political organizing. And more importantly, when their call falls flat,
they will simply blame those "stubborn vanguard-types" for refusing to take
such steps to dissolve previously held bonds and start anew.  But what we
"vanguardists" know is that any attempt to radically start anew will run
into the same necessary obstacles of representation, implementation, and so
on, that existing left groups must contend with today.  Once dissolved,
similar groups will simply reform.

In the end, the power of persuasion is useless on this topic, nor do I even
care to use it any longer.  Go out and start recruiting dedicated, educated
and effective activists in order to build a "broad left" movement and find
out for yourself...

-A

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] The facts behind Stieg Larssen's fiction

[Greg McDonald]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Subtitles.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Einde O'Callaghan  wrote:

>>
>> Einde, the Swedish version IS the original version. All 3 movies have
>> been available for instant streaming on netflix for at least a year.
>>
> I know that the Swedish version is the original film version - I have all
> three films on DVD.
>
> I'll draw my own conclusions on the the Hollywood version when it opens here
> in about 2 weeks.
>
> I'm pleased they didn't try to relocate it to the US - as happened with
> "Edge of Darkness" - the BBC's version of the latter was way superior to the
> Hollywood remake.
>
> I didn't realise the Swedish original was available on netflix. Ha it been
> dubbed into English or is it with subtitles?
>
>
> Einde O'Callaghan


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] The facts behind Stieg Larssen's fiction

[Einde O'Callaghan]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 28.12.2011 11:51, Greg McDonald wrote:

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Einde O'Callaghan  wrote:



Just saw the  american version of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo".
It is actually quite good, possibly better than the original version.


I don't know if you've seen the Swedish version. I don't believe it was
released dubbed into English.


Einde, the Swedish version IS the original version. All 3 movies have
been available for instant streaming on netflix for at least a year.

I know that the Swedish version is the original film version - I have 
all three films on DVD.


I'll draw my own conclusions on the the Hollywood version when it opens 
here in about 2 weeks.


I'm pleased they didn't try to relocate it to the US - as happened with 
"Edge of Darkness" - the BBC's version of the latter was way superior to 
the Hollywood remake.


I didn't realise the Swedish original was available on netflix. Ha it 
been dubbed into English or is it with subtitles?


Einde O'Callaghan


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Help me find biography by Engels

[padmajashaw]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I will be grateful if someone can provide a link to Engel's biography of Karl 
Marx.
I found only the brief abstract on Marxism.org site. Have I missed something?
Please help!
Padmaja



Padmaja Shaw
India

Sent from my iPad

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] James Petras: Armageddon in 2012

[DW]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I don't think the Harvey piece contradicts what I said. I think it
compliments it. My point was that *Petras* is very sloppy. I also think the
Chinese economy is unstable or can enter a period of intense stability. The
reality is that the Chinese capitalist economy resembles the sort of 'State
Capitalist' reality that people like Tony Cliff argued Russia was (and
later China). I think they were too obviously wrong. But now, we see the
reality of this...or we see a small part of that reality.

Those, like Petras, who think the PRC is like Japan or Malaysia, simply
don't see the deeper picture. The Harvey piece is interesting because PRC
governmental policy is to prevent the kind of volatile swings in the
economy, or sectors of the economy, that can cause huge social dislocation.
The "30 million" unemployed in export oriented sectors of the economy, for
example, Harvey, correctly, notes.

The Chinese have something the Japanese didn't have in the 1990s, or the
Malaysians didn't have in the early 2000s: money. A lot of it. Foreign and
democratic reserves that add a HUGE cushion to any bubble like real estate.
They use a combination of monetary policies (they control the monetary
intercourse between the foreign reserves coming in from selling stuff to
the West and the exchange that takes place between that currency and the
Chinese currency that circulates in the Chinese economy itself...a sort of
hybrid Keynsian/Monterist policy only a State Capitalist state can
accomplish).

When those 30 million got walloped in the global financial/debt crisis in
2008 the Chinese implemented, *quite easily*, a huge Keynsian inspired
investment of $500 billion USD. They didn't actually bail out directly
anyone. They simply started real investment in wealth producing industries
and services to absorb those 30 million unemployed.  They did make
financial loans to 'bridge' the period to many of these factories to bring
back workers even if to sit around. They built high speed rail, highways,
energy projects (wind turbine production, for example, went UP during this
period based on that investment) more apartment complexes, etc. This
allowed domestic 'feeder industries' to expand, not contract, to the
exclusion, generally of foreign imports but (but included foreign owned
enterprises IN the PRC). Remember it was all about unemployment. It was
huge, expansive and it generally worked.

I don't think they knew it was going to work. I think they sweated this
out. During the same period the Chinese working class had, oh, about 30,000
strikes. A few hundred major riots, etc.

My point is that the PRC has developed a kind of mechanism to deal with
huge swings in export industries, financial crisis, etc. But they can end
up as I see it, with diminishing returns on these investments, really
maneuvers, as the law of value catches up to them and their ability to
manipulate both financial and global trading policies runs out as there are
few 'buyers', maybe, for their goods, and thus a weaker financial situation.

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Article Received - Thanks

[Ismail Lagardien]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==




Hi Everyone

I the article I ask for was found, quite quickly, it seems. Thank you.

It sucks not being affiliated with a University, and it double-sucks that we 
have capped and very slow internet access here in Africa's deep south.

All the best for the New Year to everyone. 


Ismail

Ismail Lagardien

Nihil humani a me alienum puto

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] The facts behind Stieg Larssen's fiction

[Greg McDonald]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Einde O'Callaghan  wrote:


>> Just saw the  american version of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo".
>> It is actually quite good, possibly better than the original version.
>>
> I don't know if you've seen the Swedish version. I don't believe it was
> released dubbed into English.

Einde, the Swedish version IS the original version. All 3 movies have
been available for instant streaming on netflix for at least a year.

In terms of being faithful to the original version, I think it's
rather a moot point, since Larsson's common-law wife has complained
his family did not present the articles for the public in the manner
he would have wanted. Being that common law arrangements are not
recognized in Sweden she of course got nothing. I think Larsson would
be quite upset about that .

There may have been some minor changes here and there in the american
version, but I'm grateful at the very least the movie was not
sanitized for the market. I thought the acting, overall, was superior
in the current remake.

Greg


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Journal Access

[Ismail Lagardien]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


I am desperately trying to gain access to scholarly magazines It sucks to 
be out of the system. If anyone in North America or Europe has access to the 
following article, would you care to download and send it to me as an 
attachment, please?

Howard S. Becker Categories and Comparisons: How We Find Meaning in 
Photographs Visual Anthropology Review, Volume 14. Issue 2. September 1998 
(Pages 3 - 10) 


Thanks


Ismail Lagardien

Nihil humani a me alienum puto

Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Marxism] Australia: Socialst Alliance National Conference

[Ratbag Media]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


Now finally up on YouTube...
http://youtu.be/B_DASD9sil8
With the next Socialist Alliance National Conference scheduled for
January 22 in 2012, this video is a reminder of the last coming
together.

Discussion continues about the what to do next in Alliance Voices
http://alliancevoices.blogspot.com/

dave riley


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] The facts behind Stieg Larssen's fiction

[Einde O'Callaghan]

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On 28.12.2011 01:14, Greg McDonald wrote:

==
Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
==


On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Jim Farmelant  wrote:


A good article posted by Charles since it among other things
points out that Sweden has long harbored many people with pro-Nazi
outlooks and that during WW II, Sweden although officially
neutral, in fact sold Germany iron ore and other raw materials
while also permitting German troops to cross Swedish territory.
Furthermore, I would add that during the 1930s pro-Nazi attitudes
were widespread among the middle and upper classes of Sweden.



Just saw the  american version of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo".
It is actually quite good, possibly better than the original version.

I don't know if you've seen the Swedish version. I don't believe it was 
released dubbed into English.


the new Hollywood version is being released in Germany in two weeks 
time. After that I'll compare the two versions. The Swedish version was 
released on general release here in a dubbed version last year - it's 
very good, so the Hollywood version has a lot to live up to to be better.


BTW I've just read an article by a translator criticising the English 
translation of the books for being quite cavalier in its treatment of 
various aspects of the plot - starting with the title, which is actually 
"The Man Who Hated Women" but also including the dragon tattoo of the 
English title, which IIRC in the English version is on her right 
shoulder but in the Swedish version is much larger starting on her right 
shoulder covering most of her back with the tail ending on one of her 
thighs.


The German translation is apparently truer to the Swedish original than 
the English version. I'll now have to read the trilogy again in German 
to see if the differences affect the plot or the story-telling.


Einde O'Callaghan


Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu
Set your options at: 
http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com