Re: [Marxism] Is Putin Really Planning To Bomb Saudi Arabia? And Syrian rebels with sarin tripping in tunnels ...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Since it were multiple attacks, it means that there were people operating in different places. From the testimony, it says that due carelessness with one container, the others were detonated, which corroborates with a radio triggered attack. Sarin is lighter than, air, it must indeed be put underground so it can snake attack, like it happened in japan, or must fragmentation weapons, so that it can be scattered. But if it were a single air attack, the number of people injured would be enormous, because the are covered would be much bigger. 2013/9/11 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com They opened bottles and the sarin snake-danced its way into 8 separate villages like Zengakuren demonstrators, leaving others unharmed? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is Putin Really Planning To Bomb Saudi Arabia? And Syrian rebels with sarin tripping in tunnels ...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == So, you don't believe in the leaks? What is the problem in funding your enemy? Religious ideologies or nearly all non socialist ideologies are secondary or at most instrumental to primitive accumulation. You can interpret that action as al Qaeda asking for more support, more money from Saudis. Just like the 2nd intifada was interrupted when Mahmoud Abbas got enough money to shut up. 2013/9/11 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Everybody but you apparently. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is Putin Really Planning To Bomb Saudi Arabia? And Syrian rebels with sarin tripping in tunnels ...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I really don't see the contradiction in giving al-qaeda chemical weapons, even though they are deadly enemies. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is Putin Really Planning To Bomb Saudi Arabia? And Syrian rebels with sarin tripping in tunnels ...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And also only by the biggish Iraq. 2013/9/10 Michael Karadjis mkarad...@gmail.com But Syria is separated from Saudi Arabia by only smallish Jordan. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is Putin Really Planning To Bomb Saudi Arabia? And Syrian rebels with sarin tripping in tunnels ...
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Maybe many of the other 1300 who don't agree with you or don't give a flying fuck about your seeing a contradiction? 2013/9/10 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Who gives a flying fuck about you not seeing a contradiction? Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dear As'ad AbuKhalil
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == 2013/9/7 Greg McDonald gregm...@gmail.com So what does this mean Daniel, that you are convinced a class analysis of Syria is impossible? That means nothing about what I think, really. BTW, #3 is a canard. But it's not. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] With the Libyan Rebel | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It is too bad that Libyans prefer the loud and boisterous freedoms of a new society trying to find itself. This is often what the bourgeois press always say after a capitalist dictatorship falls. In reality, no matter how many years, the proletariat will never find itself, it's at least as exploited as it was before in a capitalist regime. This kind of statement is only supportive of capitalism freedom to smash the poor ones with much more strength. The middle class is now free also to repress the poor guy, that is the great conquest. And the guy interviewed is probably an idiot or too naive to notice that. The police militia and/with drug lords can act with more efficiency and silence, with the help of the great free press. In the case of Lybia, it's pretty unreasonable that tribal militias won't act the same way. Lying about violence, disappearing with bodies, coaxing any elected candidate to do whatever they want, including submitting them to their new western lords's wishes. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dear As'ad AbuKhalil
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You are convinced that: 1. A deep analysis of Syria class relations is possible. 2. That class relations within Syria matters at fundamental level, and what is happening there is not a conflict between elite sects. 3. That a deep analysis will surely dispel any idea of jihadists are not,at least, a large minority component of the conflict. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] New York Times Issues Correction on Syrian Rebel Story | The Cable
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Jund al-Sham is independent of the SMC and of extremist groups, operates primarily in rural Idlib, and has relied heavily on fuel smuggling to Turkey for its funds. This indeed makes all the situation sounds much better to the rebels. In fact, it was made in the spring of 2012, according to a correction at the bottom of the article. Surely, everything got better now. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] New York Times Issues Correction on Syrian Rebel Story | The Cable
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This also shows how the vanguard revolutionaries are strictly organized under an iron hand: http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/09/06/making_sense_of_the_syrian_rebels_order_of_battle -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Obama Warned on Syrian Intel | Consortiumnews
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There is no reliable information from nowhere. But, if looking for reasons or theories to blame the rebels can at least be an attempt to stop an invasion from US, so be it. They have the most to gain from an invasion anyway, so they are likely to have caused a red flag: Gen. Ziad Fahd, the commander of the “southern front” for the Free Syrian Army, urged in a telephone interview Wednesday that the United States and its allies attack six air bases and three rocket-launching batteries around Damascus. He said that with these targets taken out, his 30,000 troops in the Damascus area “can launch attacks on the rest” of the regime’s forces in the south http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-syria-nears-a-turning-point/2013/09/04/e259ba1e-15b4-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html There won't be much trouble because: The rebel commander said that following an attack, his moderate wing of the opposition, organized in five sectors of the Damascus area, “is ready to take over government ministry buildings to ensure security and stop looting.” He said that the al-Nusra Front and other extremist organizations that are strong in northern Syria are relatively weak in Damascus, an assessment shared by other analysts. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Obama Warned on Syrian Intel | Consortiumnews
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == 2013/9/6 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On 9/6/13 8:44 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: There is no reliable information from nowhere. But, if looking for reasons or theories to blame the rebels can at least be an attempt to stop an invasion from US, so be it. They have the most to gain from an invasion anyway, so they are likely to have caused a red flag: Maybe it was the Jews or the homosexuals. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Obama Warned on Syrian Intel | Consortiumnews
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I invoke *Godwin's law!* -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Reading the NY Times on Syria | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == No thanks, because I have the same sense from you, that you don't know the slightest about Marxism beyond some romantic expectations. That you ignore that the elements involved in this do not have class consciousness beyond an allegiance with a bourgeois ideology, so that the focus of this conflict should be the nation state. Or better, that even elites posits their countries in a an unequal exchange relation in relation to the capitalist core. 2013/9/5 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Daniel, I never get any sense that you have the slightest understanding of Marxism. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Some Thoughts on the International Position of Syria
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Interesting discussion. It shows how important Syria is in detaining the only imperialist power. 2013/9/4 Paul Flewers trusscott.foundat...@blueyonder.co.uk == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Here is part of an e-mail discussion between two pals (shown as AA and BB) about the international ramifications of the situation in Syria that may be of interest. Paul F -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] would Russia have been justified to attack Israel over 2008 Gaza massacre?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Don't forget the overlap between the anti war and anti imperialist left, which is where I am included. Since I am anti imperialist, and there is only imperialist power. I have no other choice than supporting whatever goes against US power. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Video proves militants launch chemical attacks in Syria
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == As bad as Assad is, USA power is much worse on a global scale. This is common knowledge, since calling anyone a White House ass kisser would give the person a boot from this list, but calling an Assad ass kisser is not a problem. (I am not being cheeky here or ironic). So, as long as there is not a proof that Assad gassed to death 350 people, I will be looking for a reason that Assad regime was not guilty since this is the famous red line that will excuse a foreign invasion. 2013/9/4 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com Daniel Rocha, why do you kiss up to the Assad regime so much? Why do you support his slaughter by promoting his lies? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] please promote this event on Marxmail and elsewhere
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I stand behind any socialist group. I don't have anything against people who wants to save their asses. But others, I am not sure who are they. I don't have any quibbles with Jihadists, but the problem it is that outside Lebanon and Palestine, they usually are a cannon fodder for western millitary intervention. 2013/9/4 Ken Hiebert knhieb...@shaw.ca == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Presumably Clay has read this article and rejected the stance of these Arab socialist groups. I support their line and i am opposed to US intervention. ken h http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article3096 We Stand Behind the Syrian People’s Revolution - No to Foreign Intervention Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Mumblings over East Ghouta, reaction to a Peter Lee article
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == US have rather big bases there. 2013/9/4 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com That includes you Daniel. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Mumblings over East Ghouta, reaction to a Peter Lee article
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Sorry, it had big. Now, they are small units! 2013/9/4 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com US have rather big bases there. 2013/9/4 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com That includes you Daniel. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The provenance of Mint Press News | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == * You posted today: Long live Socialist Alternative and Socialist Alliance Clearly, they were using too much Crest toothpaste. This was after you wrote to me: On 9/2/13 10:35 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Thanks. You do a better job than Obama's chief adviser. One more crack like that and you will be unsubbed. Notice that about 1 year ago, privately Last year: ** Louis Daniel, please try to stay within 5 posts a day. 24/06/12 OK. Same rule for everyone, right? Louis Proyect l...@panix.com 24/06/12 para mim On 6/24/12 2:59 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: OK. Same rule for everyone, right? Yes. Of course. * We can clearly see that you break your own rules almost every day. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The latest disclaimer from Mint Press News on that article about the rebels causing the East Ghouta deaths
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == We just have to take the rebels word only if they are portrayed as honest and not sectarian or jihadist bastards. 2013/9/3 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== Some information in this article could not be independently verified. Mint Press News will continue to provide further information and updates. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] War is for Israel's interests not most working people
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Not all members, I am not offended. He is talking about Israel as a government, not as the ordinary citizen. And he is right that it would help Israel, at least their lobby in US thinks so http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/aipac-comes-out-for-strike-on-syria-and-mentions-iran-more-often-than-syria.html http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/dubious-intelligence-and-iran-blackmail-how-israel-is-driving-the-us-to-war-in-syria.html http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/john-kerry-invokes-apocalyptic-domino-theory-in-call-with-house-democrats.html I'd say that should also be true regarding the Saudi lobby. 2013/9/3 Jeff meis...@xs4all.nl == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 14:05 03-09-13 -0700, John Obrien wrote: This U. S. involvement is to help Israel Who are you arguing with and why in this post?? Plus you are insulting to the members of this list by interspersing such obvious statements with totally unsupported conclusions. - Jeff Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] FAIR asseses Ghouta attack reports: John Kerry vs. Mint Press
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Debunk by American Inteligence, huh-huh. 2013/9/2 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com This story was so completely debunk at the time that it means this writer is either ignorant or dishonest, -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] FAIR asseses Ghouta attack reports: John Kerry vs. Mint Press
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks. You do a better job than Obama's chief adviser. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Private note
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Alright chief. No more cracks. 2013/9/2 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com On 9/2/13 10:35 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Thanks. You do a better job than Obama's chief adviser. One more crack like that and you will be unsubbed. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack (from naked capitalism)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Shane, You message was not copied and pasted properly. 2013/9/1 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== Begin forwarded message: From: naked capitalism blog...@nakedcapitalism.com Date: September 1, 2013 7:04:30 AM EDT EXCLUSIVE: Syrians In Ghouta Claim Saudi-Supplied Rebels Behind Chemical Attack Mint __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Syria, Israel, US, Oil
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It doesn't matter where auxiliary matter comes from, what it matters it is that the international prices goes down and the mining is secured and protected. Notice the boom in mining after 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Afghanistan Even though most of exports do not go to USA, as I said, the important thing it is the international prices. Well, not saying that was the reason for the invasion. But those things happen. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Syria, Israel, US, Oil
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You are quoting an opinion, as it were the average Israeli opinion, that says As strange as it sounds, everyone in Israel loves Arab dictators. When I say everyone I mean both Jews and Arabs. and As voices in Israel have recently spoken out in favor of Hamas' continued rule in Gaza, so many Israelis are worried these days over the Syrian regime's welfare.. The author is a Druze, an ethnic group that is at the crossroads of Arab tribal war chiefs and dictators and colonizers. He is pissed off at everyone. It's good to have another opinion, but, let's not forget this: http://thewholegardenwillbow.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/rummy2.jpg So, compliments or knitghoods are meaningless. And let's not forget the easy path to Iran soil, if Syria is conquered. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Overview from P. Cockburn
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It is also about struggle between nations. You have an empire core, which by means of unequal transfers of surplus from less developed nations, can corrupt its proletariat not to fight against its elites. So, what seems to be social gains from class struggle in 1st world countries, it is in fact the transfer of the toil of superimposition to less developed nations. So, actually, the working class of the empire core are aligned with their interests by having a share of the exploitation. This is general terms. The better payed workers of developing nations are also corrupt in a similar fashion, but are in some degree indirectly exploited by its equivalent in the first world, but the tendency of profit to fall is forcing, gradually, an equalization of the conditions. But it's still going to take some time. 2013/8/30 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Estabrook, out of curiosity, have you ever read any Marxist literature? You seem to think that Marxism is about the struggle between nations. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] re-Cruise Missile morality
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It is to seize control over Iran's oil fields and neutralize its small power projection. Besides US would have a corridor from Mediterranean to easily and extremely fast position a lot of troops and wepons very close to Iran's border, without having to rely on the Persian Gulf. 2013/8/28 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com In the last day or so I have been hearing that Obama's real ambition is to seize control of the Syrian oil fields. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] This weapons won't stop at 'rebels' hands.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/22/us_shipping_thousands_of_cluster_bombs_to_saudi_arabia_despite_international_ban Of course not! -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] This weapons won't stop at 'rebels' hands.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAR-160 2013/8/27 DW dwalters...@gmail.com Cluster bombs have to be dropped from planes. They can't be used by the rebels as they have zero air power -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Sarin attack as a setup for war against Syria:
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://stormcloudsgathering.com/leaked-britam-defense-syrian-documents-download -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] This weapons won't stop at 'rebels' hands.,
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In fact, they can be quite light and used in artillery. For example, each one of these weight 590g http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M139_bomblet A small al qasam rocket can easily carry 40 of these for 5km. 2013/8/27 DW dwalters...@gmail.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Daniel, you raised something you saw about cluster bombs. As Jeff pointed out they are a whole different kettle of bomblets than the improvised Katusha's that are useless the Palestinians have been using out of Gaza. Cluster Bombs, the smallest I believe are *800lbs* and dropped in *quantity* over the enemy can eliminate all human beings within a sqaure KM. These rockets, assuming the Israelis are willing to pass them along to the Saudis who would then pass them along to their AQ and other Wahabi-ist section of the anti-Assad forces is a very unlikely scenario. Also, since they are banned internationally, this would raise a political flag the Israeli's don't want to deal with, after using them in S. Lebanon not that long ago. The biggest threat of cluster bombs (see CBU-87 for one example) actually comes directly from the U.S. which would use them in a heart-beat against government forces. It is highly unlikely they will NOT use them against Assad's air force since it's the fastest way of taking out planes and associated pilot barracks that may be spread about an airport. I suspect the US will attack within the next week and I suspect further it will be against anti-air craft batteries first, command and control and *some* troop concentrations, second.I think they will leave most air forces alone and most armor as well. But this is just an educated guess on my part. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] No US attack on Syria! Support the Syrian Revolution!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Are you serious? 2013/8/27 Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com The parallels with Spain in the civil war are getting more profound each day. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Why I am unsubscribing!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Dear Comrade, I completely agree with you. I rather stay, though, and see what happens later, as a sociological study. You can subscribe by clicking on the bottom of the 1st post of a thread, in a link besides what is written Set your options at:. There, every member of this forum can find an unsubscribing option. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] VIJAY PRASHAD on the Libyan Revolution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Because I cannot see any tendency towards socialist ideals there or in Syria. The most honest people in arms seems to be fighting for their necks without any socialist strategy in mind. That is true for most of the struggles in the region of the so called Arab spring. It doesn't cut the litmus test of being a socialist struggle or against a colonial power, like the palestinians, for who I don't care if they are crazy jihadists or not, as long as they win. 2013/8/16 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com Why is dissing revolutions in such a non-chalant way as you have here such a favorite pass-time of arm-chair so-called Marxists today? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Losing sleep over China
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The problem it is that, even by adjusting by inflation, the stock markets are surpassing the pre crisis records of 2001 and 2007. That might mean speculators are running after credits while there is a growing abundance of commodities that will soon be left unsold. Perhaps, we may be heading to a crisis that is globally deeper than 2008's. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More bullshit disinformation from Iranian TV
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It seems this is a islamophobic website. Do you trust it? 2013/8/6 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com But it turns out to have been made in Iraq about gays being burned alive: http://www.islam-watch.org/**index.php?option=com_content** view=articleid=713:islamic-**barbarism-gays-burned-alive-**in-iraqhttp://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=713:islamic-barbarism-gays-burned-alive-in-iraq -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More bullshit disinformation from Iranian TV
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Maybe it's from Syria, but from 2011. The conflict is over 2 years now, isn't it? 2013/8/6 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On 8/6/13 3:48 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: It seems this is a islamophobic website. Do you trust it? What do you mean by trust it? The article showing the video made in Iraq is dated 2011. Do you think that the people who made the video utilized time travel to go into the future and copy the Iranian TV report from 2013? __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] More bullshit disinformation from Iranian TV
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == No length at all. I just typed and didn't even move an inch. And I won't move much because this is an all messed up situation. And indeed, yes, that is the best I can come up with, specially coming up from a extreme right forum, supportive of american imperialism. 2013/8/6 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com I don't believe the lengths some people will go to to defend a child killer. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Death of Lucy
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This made me specially sad. I don't know why, but this story really broke my heart, even though I know much horrible things happen all the time. http://www.greanvillepost.com/2013/08/03/the-death-of-lucky-a-tribute-to-giggles-also-murdered-by-the-callous-idiocy-of-humans -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] So what happened to imperialist arming of the FSA?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You are half right. That would make the Syrian conflict doubly worthless. But you are exaggerating that it is not in anybody's agenda. At least, it is in the base of many movements in latin america. And after the unions became corrupted, it's been slowly, very slowly, building up from the base, from people unaffiliated from those, now conscious that taking part in official democratic bourgeoisie process is useless and corruptible. 2013/7/29 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== What makes the Syrian conflict worthless is that the battle cries, representing the two camps, are Legitimacy of the State versus Allahu Akbar. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] So what happened to imperialist arming of the FSA?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You are not making much sense. 2013/7/29 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== Daniel, no offense, but this comment indicates to me that you might be in the wrong place. I'd advise you to keep a low profile from now on if these are the sorts of ideas percolating in the old cerebrum. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == My unreasonable was as a tactic towards socialism because the riches will always find a way to avoid taxes or just break the law to do so. The ultraright in your country argues that it will lead that companies will have to fire workers or move to other countries, so it by itself, doesn't make sense. They will do it anyway, this is what happens here. I am really not sure what you should do to avoid this blackmail, since your government sucked and oppressed so much other countries, that the elites of those will offer many advantages for the companies of USA and its satellites to get part of the surplus. Of course, the massive increase of productivity leads to higher salaries and stronger unions... until robots get more advanced or cheaper labor shows up. Anyway, what happened in my country, Brazil, which is much closer to the bottom in terms of wage, what happened the opposite. They became so active, that when the Lula government got its power, it had in its hands the leadership of unions. It turns out the leadership got very privileged positions with the companies and the government, detached from the base, in the negotiation process. Now, organizing a real strike, and not a semi staged blackmailed from both parts, became almost very difficult, nearly impossible, even though they happen all the time. Traditional unions works best when the industrial power is incipient and workforce is scarce. Nowadays, the only way out, I can see, are organizations which are not attached bourgeoisie power at all. More in the anarchist way. 2013/7/29 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Daniel, you just said what the ultraright in the USA says all the time: A heavy progressive or graduated income tax is unreasonable and leads to corruptible unions. I don't care what your intentions were but I have a responsibility to keep this mailing list on an even keel. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This was left out: The request should not be heavy taxes, but as usual, higher wages, more wage security and parity between retirement earnings and wage. That healthcare and schooling should be all nationalized, army pulled out from outside conflicts. Tax is just a kind of collecting surplus. By itself is meaningless, unless its needs appears to supply necessary but unproductive ( in terms of value of exchange) work or needs. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Returning to Heinrich
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That Boffy, in the comments, is so wrong, that I wouldn't know where to begin his mistakes. The worst mistake it is that financial services produces value instead of being the most lecherous part of the economy. 2013/7/27 robert mckee bobmcke...@yahoo.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/returning-to-heinrich/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Unmaking of Marx’s 'Capital': Heinrich’s Attempt to Eliminate Marx’s Crisis Theory - Kliman, Freeman, et al
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == All these people are insane. The law is unproven because it is a tautology from the formula of the profit equation, that is explicitly stated by Marx, even though anyone can see by inspection of the equation. The mere act of trying to prove mathematically means that the person does not understand his theory. The only way to prove it is by analyzing real statistics. Kliman has some iterative models, but that is just a brute attempt of justifying in terms of vulgar economics. But vulgar economics are rotten from the root, so he is ignoring Marx to prove Marx. A contradiction. 2013/7/23 Ralph Johansen mdriscol...@charter.net ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== The Unmaking of Marx’s 'Capital': Heinrich’s Attempt to Eliminate Marx’s Crisis Theoryby Andrew Kliman, Alan Freeman, Nick Potts, Alexey Gusev, and Brendan Cooney http://www.**marxisthumanistinitiative.org/**economic-crisis/the-unmaking- **of-marxs-capital-heinrichs-**attempt-to-eliminate-marxs-** crisis-theory.htmlhttp://www.marxisthumanistinitiative.org/economic-crisis/the-unmaking-of-marxs-capital-heinrichs-attempt-to-eliminate-marxs-crisis-theory.html __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bono: Only Capitalism Can End Poverty [Video]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You cannot expect anything else from this clown. So, the interesting part are in the comments, which should typically tease anarchists. Extreme right wingers appropriated their use of libertarian to their vocabulary while the social democrats reformists happily got the former's old label liberal. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is There Anything Truly Sustainable or Humane About Eating Meat?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In order to have large crops, one has to adopt pest control methods. Which means killing animals (insects, mostly) in a huge scale. They are small, but their numbers compensate for that. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Greenwald: Snowden has enough information to cause US govt ‘worst damage in history’ — RT News
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It seems that Assange also has a secure file with something in case he is arrested or he is killed. I am not sure if it is just part of the cables not yet released at the time or something special. Can anyone tell anything? 2013/7/14 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== I detest rt.com but thought it was worth passing this along. http://rt.com/news/snowden-us-**nightmare-greenwald-064/http://rt.com/news/snowden-us-nightmare-greenwald-064/ __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Help Defend Jacobin / CounterPunch and the War on Transgender People
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Transgender people are prone to suicide and violence in a rate much above cisgender, including ciswomen. The letter, by even by the language, is offensive given that wrote it supposedly should be conscious that ciswoman are just as a woman as a transwoman, for example: Further, we do not believe that transgender or transsexual women are more likely to harm females. Transexual woman are female. The correct form would be likely to harm ciswoman. In the end of the paragraph it is written: 'However, we cannot of deny the implications of this legislation - and the radical shift in priorities it represents for females. Female reproductive vulnerability as it long history of exploitation males in the: form of sexualized violence.As attorneys, as females, and as lesbians seek. Legal recognition and protection for the potential harm that females may experience because of our reproductive vulnerability Unfortunately these protections are not preserved for females in Rhode Island, as the addition of gender identity an end-around these protection Basically, it is argued throughout the text that transgender people can fake their identities and harm females/women in places exclusive for women, like, women only meetings and bathroom. That they should prove before that they transgender. I've been in contact with transwomen, and have friendships with many of them, and the most humiliating thing is to not be recognized as a real woman. And for those that achieved enough stealth ability it is to have their birth biological sex recognized. Transwoman are abused even by the whole LGBT comunity, since they like to include violence them against male gays to inflate the statistics. That is what happens in my country, Brazil. Transgender is a small part of the LGBT, but it takes most of the violence, that is, it is disproportionately targeted. I think this is a case where some women are abusing of their conquered power and abusing of oppressed minorities in order to sustain it. This is similar, in smaller scale, to what Israeli Jews try to justify their violent segregation against or vulgarizing the holocaust, forgetting about the other millions who were also killed by the nazi. It is the oppressor wearing the mask oppressed. 2013/7/13 michael yates mikedjya...@msn.com I have read the letter, and the claim made by Allen seems wildly inaccurate. However, I am not well-versed in all of this, so I would like to hear from others about it. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is There Anything Truly Sustainable or Humane About Eating Meat?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Animals in wild nature die in truly horrible or at least in very painful ways. I feel that if an animal is raised and killed without torture, I see no reason to not eat. As torture I include animals which are smart enough to notice, if given the opportunity, to know they are being raised to be eaten, like Apes. I am not sure about cetaceans in general but I guess they are also that smart . 2013/7/13 DW dwalters...@gmail.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It would be interesting to poll the list to see how many people have adopted the vegetarian life style. D. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Raul Castro’s Remarks on Cuba’s Social Crises
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This website tends to attract anti communists in the comments section. Why? 2013/7/12 Ken Hiebert knhieb...@shaw.ca == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == As reported by Fernando Ravsberg, BBC correspondent in Cuba. http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=96265 Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Raul Castro’s Remarks on Cuba’s Social Crises
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That article is nice and rather optimistic. But look around the website and there is a reason why it attracts so many anti communists. It is paternalistic and puts in a bad light towards Cuba in every aspect. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] America's Yawning Racial Wealth Gap | Common Dreams
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Those are a good public for Marxist teachings, they are angry at the whole system, instead of the white middle class, which angry only against 1%. What is the actuation of Marxist groups among these people? 2013/7/12 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Since the beginning of the Great Recession in 2007, the gap has only widened. On average, white families have more than $113,000 in wealth, whereas African-Americans have an average of less than $5,700. full: http://www.commondreams.org/**view/2013/07/12-2http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/07/12-2 -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Al Qaeda kills Free Syrian Army commander: FSA spokesman | Reuters
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Aims of the Syrian revolution? If they aim a bourgeois democratic state, is that a revolution? Or is it just turning a 360º with a lot of violence? 2013/7/12 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Neither. It is the culmination of a simmering--and now boiling--conflict about the aims of the Syrian revolution. As I said, it makes those who amalgamated the FSA with jihadists look like blithering idiots. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Al Qaeda kills Free Syrian Army commander: FSA spokesman | Reuters
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This is what police, militias(usually policeman) and drug dealers (they usually kill people in burning tires) has always done to poor people. Now, they are moving upper in the economical class. And see that our opposition to the military dictatorship was done with strong socialist claims. It just hurt less internationally when the poor is massacred rather than the middle class. The violence rate now is higher (for the poor) than during the dictatorship. Free speech is silenced by the media, which is controlled by the financial bourgeois. It just works as such while the profits are high, otherwise, in times of deep time, there is a convergence of repression. In the end, it is just like a dog running after its tail, without a socialist project which is at least anti imperialist. What matters, though, it is a poke at the eyes of the Empire. We moved out, which is good. Syria supported by Russia or Iran, is good too. 2013/7/12 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com No, it does not. We advocate political democracy even when there is economic dependency. It is a positive gain when people do not have to live in fear of death squads coming in the middle of the night to take away a son or daughter because they started a group on campus critical of someone like al-Assad or Mubarak. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Al Qaeda kills Free Syrian Army commander: FSA spokesman | Reuters
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == times of great crisis. 2013/7/12 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Al Qaeda kills Free Syrian Army commander: FSA spokesman | Reuters
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yes, I am referring to my country, Brazil. 2013/7/12 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Daniel, you really have to make an effort to provide data when you are posting to Marxmail with its 1500 subscribers. Historical materialism is another word for Marxism. Unless you fill in the data (materialism), it is impossible to reply to you. I gave about 15 seconds of consideration whether to answer you on Brazil--your native country--in terms of the material differences around a range of questions between the military dictatorship and WP rule but I don't even know if you are referring to Brazil nor do I consider it worth my time since your response would be conducted on the same abstract and useless level as this one. My strong suggestion to you is not to abuse your posting privileges in this fashion. Subscribers are dead serious about these matters even if you are not. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Raul Castro’s Remarks on Cuba’s Social Crises
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Cuba is on the right track, indeed. Cooperatives are the beginning of the withering away of the state from a centralized war state. But it is fundamental that Cuba and Venezuela collaborates on trade between cooperatives. For the general population of my country, Brazil, even the worst point of views of Cuba expressed on that website are like heaven on Earth. The police apparatus to repress the poor is still the same of the dictatorship but hidden by an informal law of silence by most media. So, there is only freedom of speech and press for upper classes, which are a small part of the population. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The End of the “Leaderless” Revolution » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It doesn't and it won't, not matter what is the terminology, because people are not oppressed and violated as they were in semi feudal China or Russia while being raped by foreign powers. At the same time, there is no USSR or Maoist China to give logistic support. Chances of revolution in USA, UK or Japan are null. It's hopeless There is some chance of success, though, if people worldwide are willing to support not only financially, but with their own blood, the completely uncoordinated revolts, mostly peaceful, that happens through out the world. Or instead of going against the top1%, support the lowest 1%, specially those with a strong mind and heart and conquer the hearts of 10% against the oppressive elements from the remaining 90%. 2013/7/10 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com But the paradox is that groups founded on the party-building legacy of the Trotskyist, Maoist or Kremlin traditions cannot get any traction out of this. That is the real issue. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cuba After Communism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The article has a big, huge lie. The control of industry and services is not going to private hands, but to cooperative hands. There seems to be a converging of sorts between Venezuela and Cuba in this aspect. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cuba After Communism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Cuba is going more towarda a Yugoslav model than a Deng Xiao Ping way, which was a capitalist roader like Bukahrin. 2013/7/10 Jim Farmelant farmela...@juno.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It seems to me that Cuba's economic reform programs constitute sort of a twenty-first century version of NEP, and they raise many of the same issues, with similar kinds of debates over these issues. To me the following remarks from Bukharin from his piece, ” Concerning the New Economic Policy and Our Tasks” (1925)., seem appropriate here: -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Cuba After Communism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I am not a liberal. I am anti liberal, so that is unacceptable to me. Special zones would be a disaster and destroy the social ideology since all the economy would rely on commodity fetishism and concentration of means of production. And it is possible to profit exist under socialism, if that is the part of the surplus that is used to improve a cooperative or a commune. 2013/7/10 Matthijs Krul mccain...@gmail.com as any liberal can ask for. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Bibliography about origins. of Sino-Soviet split.
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Dear Comrades, what can you recommend about ther origints of the split? One thing that got my attention it is that Deng Xiao Ping wanted to modernize China with foreign technology. But not from the USSR, but rather from capitalists.There are no ifs in History, but it seemms that seeking this path, socialism in both countries, in whatever shape it existed, it was finally doomed. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bolivia, Nicaragua and Venezuela all offer Snowden asylum
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Not necessarily. He would only need the get into an embassy. 2013/7/7 Wythe Holt jr. wh...@law.ua.edu == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Such chances grow only in the number of nations willing to say they will grant him asylum. But no nation has said they would grant such asylum if Snowden cannot reach their territory first, and no nation has allowed, much less invited, Snowden to cross their airspace to reach a place of asylum. From: marxism-bounces+wholt=law.ua@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu[marxism-bounces+wholt= law.ua@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu] on behalf of Stuart Munckton [ stuartmunck...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 12:42 AM To: Wythe Holt jr. Subject: [Marxism] Bolivia, Nicaragua and Venezuela all offer Snowden asylum == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has now been offered asylum in three American countries: Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Venezuela. http://wlcentral.org/node/2846 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/wholt%40law.ua.edu Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Just repeating what John Obrien and I said, the Empire is only interested in a long conflict that will weaken Syria, and not that either side wins. And just like him, I cannot support a war which contains a large mix of unorganized lumpen. So, unfortunately, Syrians are pretty much alone(?)(even though they can match with such powerful army for 2 years with so many jet planes, helicopters and heavy weapons). -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It's slightly more complicated than that. Soldiers supporting Assad are also a component of the lumpen. The lumpen component there is more. It seems rebels can only get weapons from US (their most strong lumpen, their army, have way too many Bible-thumping more fanatical than most jihadists) much terrible than and its satellites (the Empire). But they are not getting enough. So, I should protest such that they would give weapons. But I would never support or give support to any furnishing of weapons from the Empire to anyone. So, I cannot support the rebels, even if there is a meaningful popular support. Unless there were a nationwide, or even a significant support for a socialist revolution. But that is not happening. So, I am not demonizing anyone. As you said in another post, they are in a position of sacrificing pawns. This is what I perceive behind the obvious criticism towards the lumpen component of the struggle. 2013/7/4 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com I sometimes grow weary of the demonization of ordinary Syrians, which if you make an amalgam of Daniel and John's remarks is a Koran-thumping pimp. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Alright, you did not even care to understand what I wrote. I think it's useless to discuss any issue on this thread anymore. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Bereft Of Any New Policy Ideas Since Vietnam, America's Liberal Left Is Intellectually Bankrupt
Enthoven and was promoted by the Heritage Foundation -- both strong critics of the British National Health Service and the Canadian health care system. Here's the brutal truth. The left has no idea what to do about our failing public schools. It has no solution to the problem of entitlement spending. It has no earthly idea what to do about all the problems in our health care system. There is no coherent proposal on the left to reform the tax system. I think it is no exaggeration to say that the left has no ideas. Period. In some ways this is understandable. The 20th century was one long experiment in left-wing ideas. By left-wing I am including the national socialism of Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. I am also including early 20th century progressivism, including the desire to re-make public education and purify the gene pool. I am also including everything on the left that the left refers to as left. So what was the result of all that? Failure. The left all over the world was wrong about everything. They were wrong about communism. They were wrong about socialism. They were wrong about progressivism. They were wrong about the welfare state. Throughout the entire 20th century, what did the left consider its intellectual rival? Classical liberalism. That was the political philosophy of our founding fathers. It was classical liberalism that eliminated slavery from the civilized world, gave us women's suffrage, and extended economic and political freedom to people all over the globe. The contrast between these two worldviews could not be more stark. The classical liberals believed the state should be the servant of free men. The 20th century left believed that men should serve the state. The results are in. The 20th century was the century of economic instability, depression and war. The 19th century was the century of price stability, economic growth and relative international peace. The 20th century was the century of dictatorship and genocide on an unimaginable scale -- with 125 million people killed by their own governments! The 19th century was a century of liberation and increasing personal freedom. By the last quarter of the 20th century, people all over the world realized that a huge mistake had been made. Communism was dismantled almost everywhere. Countries began instituting the flat tax, private social security accounts and even school vouchers. They began privatizing, deregulating and freeing up markets. There are still some intellectual holdouts, however. Inevitably, they are reactionaries -- seeking a return to the failed policies of the past. New York Times columnist Paul Krugman writes longingly about the post-World War II years when the highest marginal tax rate was 91 percent, when far more workers were in labor unions and when government regulation was pervasive. (Did you know that in those years the government would not allow a bank to pay you interest on your checking account balance, dictated what interest rate they could pay on your savings account and prohibited the average citizen from even buying a Treasury bill?) Krugman also pines wistfully about the Roosevelt years, when the federal government tried to immitate Italian fascism by forcing every industry and trade to form cartels and set prices and output in virtually every market -- just like the medieval guilds. Sorry, this is not serious thinking in anyone's book. Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In that text, I see the date 1938, which is when there still were many imperialist powers. In the case of Hungarian revolution there were two. Now there is just one. Anything that strengths that only power will certainly not getting my support. Considering that that people getting the arms are not part of a colonialist or socialist struggle, this makes the case more difficult. Blocking weapons to Syria does not make sense, from the side of the Empire for itself and as a means to argue that Assad has support of it. It only makes sense as to weaken the general morale of the whole population with an extended war and make Syria, in the end, a more obedient puppet. This is the same for Tahrir square, except that Egypt did not enter war, but it did lead nowhere with Morsi in power. The actual protests will probably lead nowhere with the military again taking a strong role. Since there is not a civil war there, and capitalism deepens its crisis worldwide, it's likely to slowly raise people's consciousness. This is the only good thing I see happening there. 2013/7/3 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com It is this kind of madness that Leon Trotsky addressed in Learn to Think. You don't put a plus where the State Department puts a minus. Get it? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What rest are you talking about? If things do not go according to their plans, they can do as they please to any country. See the case of Snowden. He, a single person, revealed information which are too sensitive. The USA government seems to be successfully scaring anyone who wants to give him political asylum. 2013/7/3 james pitman marinercarpen...@gmail.com I agree that GDP is not the only tool in the box, but the resta little deterministic, no? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I guess this is why Syria is still part of the Axis of Evil. 2013/7/2 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== http://claysbeach.blogspot.**com/2013/06/syria-10-things-** worse-than-eating-dead.html?**spref=fbhttp://claysbeach.blogspot.com/2013/06/syria-10-things-worse-than-eating-dead.html?spref=fb __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Linux Beach: Syria: 10 Things Worse Than Eating a Dead Man’s Heart
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In the mind of the left, the one where I am used to, and I agree, there is only one imperial power, the United States and its satellites. If Syria still has the stigma of belonging to the axis of evil, the opposition will not get any meaniful support, not matter how much cruelty is shown by the followers of Assad. Regarding the shocking videos, that kind of cruelty action is a common place in many daily bourgeoisie newspapers and police shows regarding the regarding crimes by the lumpen proletariat. Specially in Latin America. So, you are asking to change a big dictator for a bunch of small dictators, for the same violence in exchange. And also allowing the interests of the single imperial power to grow stronger. 2013/7/2 Clay Claiborne clayc...@gmail.com What is happening with the rebel eats heart is that via video the depraved actions of one soldier is being used to brand and entire movement and sadly I see many on the Left joining in this fray. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Guess who is a Jew
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The worst part of antisemitism, and the holocaust, nowadays is, by far, its use as a tool for Israel to make itself a victim and oppress the Palestinians as well to support governments that oppress the working class. 2013/7/1 Sheldon Ranz sran...@gmail.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == As long as systems of oppression require a scapegoat to sustain themselves in times of crisis, appeals to anti-Semitism will come in handy. Old habits die hard. On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Einde O'Callaghan eind...@freenet.de wrote: ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On 01.07.2013 20:12, Louis Proyect wrote: Anti-Semitism poses absolutely no danger anywhere in the world to Jews. I'm sorry to contradict you, Louis. the reports coming out of Hungary are quite worrying. People are being beaten up in the streets for participating in protests against desecrations of Jewish graves. While it's true that in most of Western and Central Europe anti-Muslim politics and activities are a greater threat the traditional fascist anti-Semitism is still a living force. And even though most attacks by Golden Dawn in Greece are directed against Muslim refugees and immigrants they also indulge in old-fashioned anti-semitism too. I wouldn't be so sure that traditional anti-Semitism is a spent force. Here in Germany the desecration of Jewish cemeteries and buildings is at least as common as desecrations aimed at Muslim institutions and buildings. Here in Chemnitz, where I live, a popular Jewsih restaurant was forced to close because it became increasingly difficult to get insurance coverage because it was damaged so regularly by drunken (and not so drunken) Nazis. An Arab restaurant in the same street had far fewer problems. Einde O'Callaghan __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.edu Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/sranz18%40gmail.com http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/sranz18%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Guess who's a Jew
-- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Guess who's a Jew
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Why very few Europeans have very 'Jewish Blood'? 2013/6/29 DW dwalters...@gmail.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What a discussion? Well, if you want to know the truth, likely few Europeans have 'Jewish blood' in them...however, as the 2nd or 3rd oldest Jewish community in the world resided in Iran, if yo scratch a person you'll likely find some Jewish DNA. What ever that meansas deciperpheral DNA of that type is impossible to find..one can only find broad general markers for the later evolved Ashkenazi and the extremely diffuse Sephardi Jews from, say, 1,000 AD or so. An old sport I guess is Jew counting...among certain types. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Beyond Leninism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Since massive reforms leading to workers democracy are unlikely without a war against capitalists or a very long and intense struggle against sanctions, it seems that on practice, workers democracy is an utopia for the foreseeable future. 2013/6/22 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On 6/22/13 7:10 PM, Adam Turl wrote: http://anticapitalists.org/**2013/05/23/beyond-leninism/http://anticapitalists.org/2013/05/23/beyond-leninism/ I would tend to look at the civil war in the USSR from 1918 to 1920 as a much more important factor of the decline of workers democracy than Bolshevik norms. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Edward Snowden: saving us from the United Stasi of America | Daniel Ellsberg | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It seems that no one seems to notice that these companies have completely free pass to spy on another countries, given that google, microsoft and facebook have massive worldwide adoption everywhere. There doesn't seem to be considerable worry about this outside US. All other countries have their lives way more unprotected than US citizens. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Microsoft comes up with the Telescreen (1984)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/07/new-xbox-by-nsa-partner-microsoft-will-watch-you-247/#ixzz2VYZSDzox This is not an exaggeration. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfWWQ8Vu7SM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctdAIxmyFXQ -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] On Marx and 'Marxism'
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This is true. Marx had no real world experience with business. That is a point that Engels complained in v.2 and v.3. Without Engels, Marx would not be able analyze or have ideas on how to analyze real world data. 2013/5/14 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com To which I reply: there is *no* Marx. There is *Marx and Engels* Academics squirreling through a pile of unpublished notes in the Marx/Engels archive are just the ones to decree that Engels's view of the unity of thought of *Marx and Engels* is fantastical and unworthy of consideration !!! -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] 'What to do with the Labor Theory of Value'
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Market prices is the most superficial layer in Marx's analysis and it is only in approximation that it approaches price of production prices. Production prices can only be determined in approximation with long term term averages, and for that, there are different methods, which might diverge a lot. Market price is the only layer whose numerical value is determined by supply and demand and also the only layer that vulgar economics is able to analyze. 2013/5/12 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On May 12, 2013, at 11:35 AM, Angelus Novus wrote: From the perspective of the monetary reading, there is NO transformation problem, because there is no transforming values into prices; values cannot be expressed without money. It ain't as easy as that. The tp is that the sum of final-product prices, multiplied by the labor-content of the monetary unit, has to equal the sum of values, but the relative prices-of-production of the commodities systematically do not correspond to their relative values. Recognition of the fact that values cannot be expressed without money (price is value in the form of money) merely states the problem without solving it. Shane Mage All things are an equal exchange for fire and fire for all things, as goods are for gold and gold for goods. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr, 90 __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] 'What to do with the Labor Theory of Value'
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There is no answer to that. No mathematical demonstration. The labor content of a monetary unity in prices is a hypothesis that can only be confirmed by statistical analysis of real world data. Market prices do not imply sum of values, not even in long term, or vice versa. The correlation for each other can only be determined by a scientific approach. This is not vulgar economics, where mathematics are ideal and detached from the real world. 2013/5/12 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com Instead of handwaving with thirty-dollar words (a quasi-physiological 'substance' that has ontological status) when the problem is pointed out to you (the sum of final-product prices, multiplied by the labor-content of the monetary unit, has to equal the sum of values, but the relative prices-of-production of the commodities systematically do not correspond to their relative values), you really ought to try at least to reply. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] 'What to do with the Labor Theory of Value'
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It does talk about market prices, but as an hypothesis to be confirmed. There is not much to talk without that. 2013/5/12 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com Not even then (the typical price is administered and results from monopolistic competition). But the macroeconomic analysis, and consequently the whole Marxian crisis theory, of vol. 3 abstracts from issues of imperfect competition and therefore works with the political economy's classical theory of price. Hence the perception of a transformation problem. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] 'What to do with the Labor Theory of Value'
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == GDI is determined by accounted market values. Market values vary chaotically and they do not reflect actual social necessary labor-time. Moreover, they count wages as variable capital, whereas wages can be part of circulation costs, which should actually subtract, and not add to GDI. Because of this, in advanced capitalist companies, most of the wages cannot be taken as part of labor exploitation proper, since they do not produce value, they are only part of necessary costs. On this issue, you have also to take into account the exploitation of underdeveloped nations or regions inside countries, where the market price is always much bellow the socially necessary required but whose vale is transferred, without monetary expression, to the exploiters. Also, the turnover time is different through different sectors of economy so the the formula is not accurate, they depend also on the size of the companies, credit availability and the quantity of money circulating. Market values are also pegged to contracts, so they can vary according to gold price/dollar price/euro price or whatever can be consider stable'.Given the great inequality between companies, the tendency from concentration and centralization, the market values will hardly vary around a clear value. The only clearer variable around all this mess is the rate of profit, and even so, it depends on messy details of confused vulgar economists. Great care is required. 2013/5/12 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com The valuation of GDI in monetary terms divided by the valuation of GDI in hours of socially necessary labor time defines the labor-content of the price unit. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] 'What to do with the Labor Theory of Value'
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On May 12, 2013, at 5:45 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Don't you agree that aggregate final prices are equivalent to aggregate labor-time? Anyway, that's what Kliman seems to be saying in the reference you posted. No, I don't agree unless very special care is taken. I am not sure if it is possible with available data. And I don't recall giving any link... Wages of necessary but unproductive labor are costs, faux frais, and Marx treats them as circulating constant capital because they have to be made up out of pre-existing values. The GDI, of course, is not organized to reflect Marx's categories like variable capital. But then you are going to a Ricardian point of view, not Marxian, if you are going outside standard Marxian categories and considering wages outside productive sector as contributing to the total aggregate. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.**utah.edu/mailman/options/ **marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fans of eugenics
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == He was gay. So, what was the solution to people like himself? 2013/5/9 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== Keynes was director of the British Eugenics Society from 1937 to 1944. He described eugenics as “the most important, significant and… genuine branch of sociology that exists”. He believed overpopulation was causing “mighty problems” for humankind and he saw eugenics as one possible way of resolving these alleged problems. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/**news/brendanoneill2/100215768/** it-wasnt-keynes-homosexuality-**that-made-him-cavalier-about-** future-generations-it-was-his-**eugenicism/http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100215768/it-wasnt-keynes-homosexuality-that-made-him-cavalier-about-future-generations-it-was-his-eugenicism/ While the romantic numskulls of Nazi Germany are dreaming of restoring the old race of Europe’s Dark Forest to its original purity, or rather its original filth, you Americans, after taking a firm grip on your economic machinery and your culture, will apply genuine scientific methods to the problem of eugenics. Within a century, out of your melting pot of races there will come a new breed of men – the first worthy of the name of Man. http://www.marxists.org/**archive/trotsky/1934/08/ame.**htmhttp://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1934/08/ame.htm __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Open hardware is going to end corporatism and finally capitalism?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The tools to make modern chips are extremely expensive and only 3 or 4 companies in the world can afford to buy and make use of them . Open hardware just means that you can share the burden of development with much ease with whatever company wants to get in the development. 2013/5/4 Andrea krads...@gmail.com on any longer. any other thought? thanks Andrea -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Egypt's Black Bloc Doesn't Want to Be Your Friend
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == How do you know they are bourgeious? How do you know they are not workers, women and youth? Do you enjoy bureaucracy? 2013/2/14 Andrew Pollack acpolla...@gmail.com == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Fucking self-appointed petty bourgeois assholes Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Egypt's Black Bloc Doesn't Want to Be Your Friend
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That's a start, isn't it? The use of violence without the promises of democracy, or a bourgeoisie revolution, is an important step to break away with bourgeoisie morals. Without violence at some point, bringing the social power is an utopia to bring power even to an organized movement. We've seen plenty of seeds for organization for 2 years, but its been mostly an oversized Occupy movement. The red/black terror must start at some point and gradually mix with the labor movement. 2013/2/14 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com Who knows what the hell they are? That is the problem with the fucking black masks. We are supposed to be Marxists here, right? Do you think V.I. Lenin would have run around in a Halloween mask trick-or-treating? Stop oppressing the Egyptian people or we will firebomb your office. The whole idea of Marxism is to organize the unorganized mass movement so that it has the social power to remove the fucking Muslim Brotherhood and establish one based on worker's power. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Egypt's Black Bloc Doesn't Want to Be Your Friend
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Right, what about the whole World War that was happening? 2013/2/14 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com The Russian revolution of October 1917 was virtually peaceful. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] SWP faction declared
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What is Cuba's party position on Syria's ongoing conflict? -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Empty Cuba blather
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Huh, I actually support Cuba. 2013/2/8 Louis Proyect l...@panix.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On 2/8/13 12:08 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: What is Cuba's party position on Syria's ongoing conflict? Cuba supports al-Assad, as it supported Qaddafi. __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Marxist critique of Leninism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Oh, they did not end? So, there's 100% employment and free education for everyone. I did not know that. I think I should support China and Russia then. 2013/1/31 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com ==**==**== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ==**==**== On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Alright, let me rephrase that to make you happier. Unfortunately for humankind, the lack of central coordination between the Stalinist regimes caused their ending. They never ended. The Chinese Stalinist Party is proudly in power. In the Russian empire the KGB types, Putin, Alaiev, Nazarbayev, Karimov et. al., have gone further by repudiating every pretense of not being the capitalist scum they always were. What was unfortunate for mankind is that they existed in the first place. Shane Mage Thunderbolt steers all things. Herakleitos of Ephesos, fr. 64 __**__ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.**utah.eduMarxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.** utah.edu/mailman/options/**marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.**comhttp://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/danieldiniz%40gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Marxist critique of Leninism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == It seems what really killed the worldwide socialist systems, in the long run, was the lack of understanding between the leadership of the major blocks, and mainly the sino soviet disagreements. If there were cooperation, the defense costs against the west would have amortized and the cold war wouldn't have been lost. Perhaps even the whole Africa and Southeat asia would be taken by socialist systems. Just take a look at the list of the opposite conflicts that China and USSR took: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#International_Communist_rivalry This same road led China to come fully back to capitalism at the same time USSR was getting into a crisis. So, I don't think there is a specific external fact to the major revolution other than the lack of global planing. I think what ended the socialist revolutions was not the lack of freedom or the economic crisis. It was actually the opposite! *It was the lack of central planing at global scale that ended those regimes and caused the crisis*. 2013/1/31 Joaquín Bustelo jbust...@gmail.com The bureaucracy did not crush or displace the Soviets. The Soviets were an expression of the revolutionary movement of the working people, and when that movement died as the result of the was an the economic crisis, the bureaucratic apparatus of the state administration stepped into the void that the collapse of the revolution as a mass movement of working people had left. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Marxist critique of Leninism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Alright, let me rephrase that to make you happier. Unfortunately for humankind, the lack of central coordination between the Stalinist regimes caused their ending. 2013/1/31 Shane Mage shm...@pipeline.com How pathetic the attempt to claim that there was anything socialist about the Stalinist regimes of Russia and China! -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Zizek blasts Zero Dark Thirty
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Is there another method around this? 2013/1/28 Daniel Koechlin d.koech...@wanadoo.fr . For the dictatorship of the proletariat to come about, the former representatives of the ruling classes and their (knowing or unknowing) agents must be identifed and neutralized. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Marxist critique of Leninism
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What about the question of counter revolution? Or the Imperial interference against revolution? Some sort of fast military coordination is required and thus centralization is required while the imperial powers exist. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
