Re: [Marxism] Libyan Opposition Leaders Slam U.S. Business Lobby's Deals With Gaddafi

2011-03-06 Thread Louis Proyect

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On 3/6/11 10:05 PM, Néstor Gorojovsky wrote:


Louis reminded me of Arg opp against Perón in 1955.

Allow me to tell you that there was a huge antiimperialist wing to
that opposition.

Without that wing it would have been impossible to overthrow Perón.



Nestor, I agree with you on Peron.

But you are dead wrong about Libya.

Dead wrong.


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Re: [Marxism] Libyan Opposition Leaders Slam U.S. Business Lobby's Deals With Gaddafi

2011-03-06 Thread Leonardo Kosloff
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Louis wrote:
On 3/6/11 10:05 PM, Néstor Gorojovsky wrote:
Louis reminded me of Arg opp against Perón in 1955.

Allow me to tell you that there was a huge antiimperialist wing to
that opposition.

Without that wing it would have been impossible to overthrow Perón.


Nestor, I agree with you on Peron.

But you are dead wrong about Libya.

Dead wrong.
WOW...some independent research that. 
It's funny to see you walking all proud about your deep knowledge on 
Argentina,...you wrote an essay on Argentina, that must be it.
Compay, calling your essay an exercise on dialectics is beyond the realm of 
empty catchphrases. I will try to point out the various inconsistencies, 
omissions and fallacies when I have more time, not sure when but I will, you 
could use a little Inigo ;). 
Basically, you completely miss (or deliberately obfuscate?) the development of 
intensive *capitalist* exploitation in the development of the key sector of 
Argentina's economy since 1880, painting this idyllic picture of the miraculous 
fertile lands which let semi-feudal backward practices survive, making 
Argentina a semi-colony (which semi-puts you semi-close to the theory of the 
semi-Izquierda Nacional that Argentina has a capitalist state which is not 
bourgeois, a semi-real exercise on dialectics). 
Even though you refer to Jeremy Adelman's essay which is good (although limited 
because it completely leaves out the evolution of the labor process) but only 
describes mechanization patterns up to 1914 -when the cosechadora (harvesting 
machine), basically a mobile factory, is introduced in Argentina around the 
20's- you fail to explain the changes in the economic and political conditions, 
particularly the formation of the Argentine working class [sic].
The incorporation of the vast lands of the pampas and others was, as it could 
only have been, realized with the most advanced machinery of the time. No 
wonder that after acknowledging that Argentina's economy consistently expanded 
up to the 30's you can't even explain why, which rather makes your 
comparative approach an exercise on acrobatics, ending of course with the 
grand pirouette: it was the contradictions that led to the rise of the 
powerful left-nationalist Peron. 
Contradictions...tell me about it.
But in the meantime, if you really wanna prove your constant denunciations of 
the sectarian left, that is, the left that doesn't fall for your 
left-nationalist fairy tales, why don't you ask you cudgel-brandishing buddy 
here about Silvio Frondizi?, not Arturo his brother. Here's a link, if your 
Spanish is sufficiente http://www.elortiba.org/pensar10.html .
Silvio Frondizi wasn't just an anti-imperialist defending Cuba, he wanted to 
create together with Che a Latin American International. He was assassinated by 
the Triple AAA, and who was it that used to shake hands with its top 
organizers?... 


  

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