Re: [Marxism] Israel moves closer to a single-state solution
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Thanks Luko, another useful resource is the Discriminatory Law Database at the Adalah website: http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-Database After my 45 years of occasional but ongoing Palestine solidarity work, my friend Frances ReMillard has been helping me to see into these deeper structural realities of the Zionist state of Israel. Frances is the director of Utahns for a Just Peace in the Holy Land jphl.org; she became a political activist a decade ago, already in her sixties, when her college age kids brought their Palestinian friends home and Frances was shocked to begin to learn about the oppression of the Palestinians. Frances is a retired scientist who wants to understand the basic reality of things. A recent experience of hers that brought new insight into the nature of the state of Israel was participating in the (Bertrand) Russell Tribunal on Palestine which took place in Capetown http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions/south-africa/south-africa-session-%E2%80%94-full-findings/cape-town-session-summary-of-findings in November 2011. One of the major resources for the Tribunal's deliberations was the South Africa Human Sciences Research Council's 2009 research paper on: *Occupation, Colonialism, Apartheid? A re-assessment of Israel’s practices in the occupied Palestinian territories under international law* which is available at http://electronicintifada.net/files/090608-hsrc.pdf Because the HSRC's study is heavy legalese that is difficult for the layperson to digest, Frances wrote and published a reader friendly summary Is Israel an Apartheid State? which can be downloaded at: http://jphl.org/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=23Itemid=40 btw Frances is not an 'Apartheid Israel' fanatic, she readily agrees with Noam Chomsky, Bishop Desmond Tutu and others that Zionist Israel is more dangerously oppressive than South African apartheid. Dayne On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:33 PM, Lüko Willms marxm...@lws-media.de wrote: on Dienstag, 2. September 2014 at 06:43, Dayne Goodwin via Marxism wrote: * Israel's 1952 Status Law intertwines the World Zionist Organization/Jewish Agency/Jewish National Fund inextricably with the state of Israel * can be found at http://www.israellawresourcecenter.org/israellaws/fulltext/jewishagencystatuslaw.htm together with many other Israeli laws Cheers, Lüko Willms Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] What's new at Links: Kurds IS, Marx feminism, South Africa Marikana, Ukraine, Pakistan, Ireland, Thomas Sankara, Scotland
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What's new at Links: Kurds IS, Marx feminism, South Africa Marikana, Ukraine, Pakistan, Ireland, Thomas Sankara, Scotland * * * Subscribe free to Links - International Journal of Socialist Renewal - at http://www.feedblitz.com/f/?Sub=343373 You can also follow Links on Twitter at http://twitter.com/LinksSocialism or on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10865397643 Visit and bookmark http://links.org.au and add it to your RSS feed (http://links.org.au/rss.xml). If you would like us to consider an article, please send it to linkssocial...@gmail.com *Please pass on to anybody you think will be interested in Links. *Comments welcome on all articles *Return daily for new articles * * * Kurds search for unity amid relentless fight to defeat 'Islamic State' thugs http://links.org.au/node/4033 By *Dave Holmes* September 2, 2014 -- Across northern Syria and Iraq, Kurdish forces are locked in fierce battles with the murderous Islamic State (IS) armed force. Whether directly or indirectly, the whole Kurdish people is being drawn into this struggle. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4033 Marxism and feminism: Was Marx a 'class determinist'? http://links.org.au/node/4028 Review by *Barry Healy* September 1, 2014 -- /Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal/ -- For the most part the Marxist movement has a had a troubled relationship with the women's liberation movement. While some Marxists (such as those organised in Australia's Socialist Alliance) have no problem with feminism, others have choked on the thought of a rebellious movement that does not fit neatly into their paradigm of a workers-led revolution. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4028 South Africa: Two years on, Marikana massacre still reverberates http://links.org.au/node/4030 By *Federico Fuentes*, Johannesburg August 29, 2014 -- On August 16, activities were held across South Africa to mark the second anniversary of the Marikana massacre in which 34 striking mineworkers were slain by state security forces. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4030 Behind the Kiev/NATO war on the people of eastern Ukraine http://links.org.au/node/4029 The following is an edited version of a talk by Roger Annis on August 22, 2014, that was delivered to a session of the Peoples Social Forum that took place in Ottawa from August 21 to 25. Also on the panel was David Mandel, a professor of political science in Montreal and expert in the history of the working class movements in Russia and Ukraine. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4029 Pakistan: A 'soft' military coup? http://links.org.au/node/4027 By *Farooq Tariq* August 30, 2014 -- Claims and counter claims by Imran Khan's Pakistan Tehreek Insaaf (PTI), Mullah Tahir Qadri's Pakistan Awami Tehreek (PAT) and the governing party of Pakistan, the Muslim League Nawaz (PMLN), of who contacted the army chief first for mediation or facilitation have puzzled the vast majority of people in Pakistan. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4027 Ireland: Gerry Adams reflects on 20th anniversary of IRA cessation http://links.org.au/node/4026 August 31, 2014 -- Sinn Féin president and TD for Louth *Gerry Adams* reflects on the 20th anniversary of the IRA cessation of military operations on August 31, 1994. Adams highlights the urgent need for the British and Irish governments to tackle outstanding issues bedevilling the political process in the north and which threaten the progress that has been made. * Watch http://links.org.au/node/4026 Burkina Faso: Thomas Sankara inspires new generation of anti-government activists http://links.org.au/node/4024 By *Brian Petersen* August 15, 2014 -- In 1987, Blaise Compaoré overthrew Sankara and took over the presidency. 27 years later, Sankara's ghost may be coming back to return the favour. * Read more http://links.org.au/node/4024 David Mandel: Understanding the conflict in Ukraine http://links.org.au/node/4023 By *David Mandel* August 24, 2014 -- The Ukrainian conflict, like most political phenomena, is multi-dimensional and highly complex. As such, it calls for a holistic -- dialectical, if you wish -- approach. But to judge by US and NATO spokespersons and by their mass media, there is only one really decisive factor that explains everything: Russia's imperialism, Vladimir Putin's determination to dominate and further dismember the Ukraine as part of his plan to restore the Soviet empire. In this simplistic view, Ukraine, with benevolent support from the West, would be quite capable of dealing with its problems and would soon be on its way to becoming a prosperous, Western-style democracy. * Read more
[Marxism] My Razor Sharp interview 2 September
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This is the link to my 30 minute interview on 2 September with Sharon Firebrace on Razor Sharp. It deals with Iraq, the Islamic State, war, the US Alliance, government popularity, budget distractions, unemployment, and many many other matters. http://enpassant.com.au/2014/09/03/my-razor-sharp-interview-on-2-september-2014/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] What gets you labeled a foreign agent in Russia these days
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=100story_id=40657 Local NGO Latest to Be Listed as ‘Foreign Agent’ By Sergey Chernov The St. Petersburg Times Wednesday, September 3, 2014 Ella Polyakova, the chairwoman of the Soldiers’ Mothers of St. Petersburg and a member of the Russian Presidential Council on Human Rights, believes that the recent listing of her organization as a “foreign agent” may be connected to her report about the alleged arrival of a large number of Russian troops injured in Ukraine to St. Petersburg, she told The St. Petersburg Times this week. On Aug. 29, the Ministry of Justice included the non-governmental organization, which defends the rights of soldiers, recruits and their families, in its register of foreign agents, i.e. NGOs allegedly involved in political activities and receiving foreign funding. Introduced as a law in 2012, the term “foreign agent” for many is reminiscent of Soviet-era spy mania. The organization was listed soon after Polyakova reported that a flight with about 100 Russian troops injured in Ukraine had arrived in St. Petersburg. On Aug. 26, Polyakova told the Moscow-based liberal television channel Dozhd that the injured troops were reportedly taken to the Kirov Military Medical Academy in the city. In an interview later that day with RBK, she said that she had received this information from journalists and was re-checking it with them. Speaking to The St. Petersburg Times earlier this week, Polyakova said that only circumstantial evidence about the presence of the injured troops in St. Petersburg has since become available. She referred to a story by the Fontanka.ru news service, which reported that about seven military ambulances with flashing lights and accompanied by military traffic police vehicles were seen in the city on Aug. 28. She also mentioned Aug. 29 media reports about a Russian paratrooper who was detained in Ukraine and, after being passed to the Russian side, was transported to a burn center in St. Petersburg. The Ministry of Justice said on its website that it based its decision to label the organization as a foreign agent on a report from the St. Petersburg Prosecutor’s Office. However, this decision was made despite a lawsuit by the NGO against the prosecutor’s office for conducting a number of illegal raids on the organization that is still being heard in court in St. Petersburg. According to Polyakova, what the prosecutor’s office interpreted as “political activities” were simply anti-war statements made by the Soldiers’ Mothers of St. Petersburg, as well as reporting on human rights abuses in the army. “We said, ‘No to war in Crimea’ — we had posted the statement on our website. They have also made a very vague accusation of ‘influencing the public opinion,’” Polyakova said. “We made two reports about the violations of human rights in the army and handed them in to [Defense Minister Sergei] Shoigu, among others. This was seen as us allegedly influencing state policies. But our stance on this is the following; our state policy is not to wage war but to defend human life; the state policy is not to fight against neighbors but solve conflicts peacefully by the means of diplomacy. That’s what we think state policies are and not a violation of Russian laws. We have no law which would say the opposite.” Polyakova also denied any foreign funding, saying that the organization was funded by two grants from the Russian government. “We have one grant from the National Welfare Fund and the other is a presidential Civic Dignity grant,” she said. After the NGO was branded as a foreign agent, Polyakova said that the organization will have to put the term on its documents and be subject to closer attention from authorities. “For instance, take when a soldier is being beaten in a certain military unit,” Polyakova said. “In such cases, we write letters to the Investigation Committee, to the Military Prosecutor’s Office, to the commanders and ask them to ensure his safety. And now there should be a notice saying [the NGO] ‘performs the functions of a foreign agent,’ which essentially means that it’s written by spies. It also implies additional checks, increased attention, audits twice a year…there’s a lot there.” According to Polyakova, her NGO is planning to file an inquiry with the Prosecutor’s Office to find out the exact grounds of its inclusion in the foreign agents register and file a complaint with the court on the decision. She said the Soldiers’ Mothers of St. Petersburg would also support the initiative by Russian Ombudsman Vladimir Lukin, who proposed to amend the foreign agent law. “For the time being, we have to abide by the law; what else we can do if the law is like this?” Polyakova asked. The Soldiers’ Mothers of St.
[Marxism] Fwd: Resisting the New McCarthyism | Solidarity
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Further evidence of an organized campaign against pro-Palestinian professors. http://www.solidarity-us.org/site/node/4239 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] How Amerli resisted ISIS
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == NY Times, September 3 2014 Waging Desperate Campaign, Iraqi Town Held Off Militants By AZAM AHMED AMERLI, Iraq — The children lined the unkempt boulevard in this northern Iraqi town on Tuesday to welcome some of the men who had saved them from the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Convoy after convoy of armed men raced past, blaring victory music from loudspeakers and bristling with weaponry. They waved as the young residents clapped and chanted religious slogans, celebrating the men who had broken the militants’ chokehold on Amerli and allowed in the first shipments of food and water in nearly three months. It took an odd coalition of Iraqi and Iranian militias backed by American air support to drive off the ISIS fighters. But for long weeks before, the minority Shiite Turkmens who live here held the line, waging a desperate campaign for survival as they took up arms to protect the estimated 15,000 residents. Amid daily shelling and at least four major assaults by ISIS, the people subsisted on onion soup and dry bread. Children joined the front lines during the day because there were not enough men for two shifts. Without gas, families cooked on open fires fueled by sheep dung. The siege of Amerli is thought to be the first time a town has managed to keep the militants at bay since the group, which now calls itself the Islamic State, began its march through wide areas of Iraq. By Monday, aid from the United Nations had begun reaching the starving residents. “The families in this village are so brave,” said Abu Abdullah, the commander of the Kataib Hezbollah militia that aided the residents. “There was no water, no electricity, no food and no milk for children, but they stood and fought ISIS.” On Tuesday, the colorful flags of at least four militias competed for prominence on the streets and buildings of Amerli. Along with the banner of Kataib Hezbollah, an Iraqi group unrelated to the better-known Lebanese Hezbollah, were those of the Badr Brigades, Saraya al-Salam and Asaib Ahl al-Haq. The fact that American air power had helped was not as celebrated. Some of the militiamen had fought the Americans after the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Mr. Abdullah spoke for many when he said, “We do not like the Americans, and we didn’t need their airstrikes.” In a video released Tuesday, the killer of Steven J. Sotloff, an American journalist, made an apparent reference to the United States’ strikes near Amerli. In Amerli, Mr. Abdullah said his men had arrived on Iraqi military helicopters about two weeks into the siege. They carried aid and weaponry, but also specialized skills. Among them were experts in communications, operations and explosives. Mr. Abdullah said his forces had joined those inside Amerli to help beat back the ISIS militants. He refused to say how many of his fighters had assisted, to offer operational details or to expound on why his men had come at all. He said only that his troops were willing to take on the mission. “Everyone heard the calls for help, but not everyone answered,” he said. “We answered.” By the time the militias began arriving, ISIS had surrounded the town entirely. To the west, they were two kilometers away; to the east, just 500 meters. Residents had dug giant trenches in the mud around Amerli. Some had planted improvised explosive devices in the earth surrounding the town, hoping to keep ISIS out. They had been planning for a long time. The day Mosul fell, tribal leaders in Amerli called a meeting in the town mosque to discuss their options, sure that the militants would eventually reach them, according to one of the leaders, Sheikh Shahab Ahmed Barash. The men swore an oath on the Quran to protect the town. They would not flee as others had. The leaders began to divide the town into areas, typically by landmarks. One leader had the cemetery. Another had the tower. ISIS made four major assaults on the town, sometimes with more than 100 men at a time and the benefit of armored vehicles. But the biggest fight the residents of Amerli faced was against hunger, as the militants’ cordon kept supplies from entering. During a series of interviews with commanders, several struggled to remember exact dates that major attacks had occurred. Ibrahim Hamid Ali, an elder in Amerli, believes the first assault began shortly after 6 p.m. on July 17, when the militants stormed the perimeter the residents had set up. “We were told not to leave our positions,” said Mr. Barash, who controls an area in Amerli where about 200 families live. “If they broke through, then we would decide what to do.” Mr. Barash and others said the fight lasted until dawn, when the Iraqi Air Force began to hit the areas
[Marxism] Fwd: American White Nationalists To Hold Conference With Russian And European Far Right
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Will Kagarlitsky and Annis make an appearance? WASHINGTON — The white nationalist think tank the National Policy Institute is holding a conference in October in Hungary that will feature Alexander Dugin, a Russian nationalist thinker who is increasingly popular in Kremlin circles. Richard Spencer, the president of NPI and a former writer at the American Conservative, said the conference, which will also feature figures from the ascendant European far right, would be the first of its kind for NPI outside the United States. It’s part of an effort to reach out to “European traditionalists” all over the world, he said, and the relationship with Dugin is just beginning: a publishing arm attached to NPI will publish a book this fall by Dugin, who this week called for Ukraine to be “cleansed” of the Ukrainian “race of bastards.” full: http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/american-white-nationalists-to-hold-conference-with-russian#1mvgx62 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Palestine Will Win
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/03/palestine-will-win/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] In defence of free speech; in defence of the Socialist Alternative club at Monash University in Australia against its banning by Zionists
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == If you support Palestine, and if you support free speech, I call on you to support Socialist Alternative at Monash University and across Australia in defence of Palestine, in opposition to Pyne's higher education armaggedon and to join the fight against political repression. http://enpassant.com.au/2014/09/04/in-defence-of-free-speech-in-defence-of-the-socialist-alternative-club-at-monash-university-against-its-banning-by-zionists/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Keith Gessen · Why not kill them all?: In Donetsk · LRB 11 September 2014
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == While Mishin was quietly attending the rapidly growing anti-Maidan meetings, Enrique Menendez, a businessman, was himself getting worried. Menendez, who is named after his grandfather, a Spanish Republican soldier who retreated to France and after the war ended up in the USSR, is thirty years old. He grew up in a town fifty miles north of Donetsk and moved to the city after high school to seek his fortune. Too poor to afford university, he found he could navigate the media business, and got work at a growing internet company in Donetsk. Three years ago he started his own company, the Ad Factory, which did online marketing for businesses in Donetsk. He was doing well and had seven employees. But he began to feel his city slipping away from him. In early March, Menendez and some other local professionals decided to organise a big pro-Ukraine meeting. Menendez was tasked with ensuring security for the protesters: everyone knew they might be attacked. He approached the staff of the newly appointed governor, but they couldn’t guarantee the protest’s safety; eventually he got in touch with the organised fans of Shakhtar Donetsk (shakhtar means ‘miner’ – Donetsk is coal country). These ultras, who had been supporters of Maidan, agreed to provide security. The meeting went off, thousands came, and at the end a group of men approached with sticks. The ultras were as good as their word and confronted the attackers, with the result that several of the ultras (as well as several of the attackers) ended up in hospital. This was as expected, but Menendez was discouraged. The first thing he noticed was that the separatist forces were simply stronger: there were more of them in general, and there were more of them who were willing to employ physical violence. The second thing he noticed was that they were local. The third thing he noticed was that the police were at best passive and at worst openly hostile to the pro-unity protesters, and it didn’t get much better the higher up you went. In mid-March representatives of the post-Maidan Ministry of the Interior visited Donetsk. They met with civic leaders but most of all they met with the football ultras, and demanded that they arm themselves and prepare for battle against the pro-Russian forces in the city. Menendez was furious. The government was coming to his city and trying to get football hooligans to beat up protesters. ‘Resolving conflicts – that’s what government is for. If you’re incapable of that, you’re not a government, you’re a profanation. Either from ignorance of the situation, or from understanding it full well, they were igniting a civil war.’ Menendez wanted to set up a dialogue with the pro-Russian activists, but his fellow pro-unity organisers wanted another rally. Menendez refused to participate. He thought it was unsafe, and on Facebook he discouraged people from attending. The march went ahead anyway. At the end of it a group of unity supporters was surrounded by a much larger group of separatists. The separatists threw bottles, cans and punches; at the end of it, one of the pro-unity marchers, the 19-year-old secretary of the local branch of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party, was dead. full: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n17/keith-gessen/why-not-kill-them-all Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] English radicals in support of Scottish independence
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Yes, debate there certainly is. As usual in such matters, the content of the question is decided by the party that organizes the referendum -- in this case, the Scottish National Party, very bourgeois. Hence the stuff about the Queen, the pound, the EU membership, etc. But Scottish socialists have for the most part found ways to participate with their own campaign. Here's more, on the SSP website: http://tinyurl.com/knmr482 RF -Original Message- From: Marxism [mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu] On Behalf Of DW via Marxism Sent: September-03-14 4:29 PM To: rfidle...@sympatico.ca Subject: [Marxism] English radicals in support of Scottish independence == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I don't have a position on this question (simply because I haven't studied it) but i do have some questions. I could be wrong but they are not voting for a Republic. The Queen remains head of state, it seems, or will. Also the continued use of the Pound as their currency seems to . And there seems to be a general consensus the new Scottish entity will surrender their sovereignty to Europe pretty quickly. There seems to be a rip roaring debate on this question on the left in Scotland and the UK. I will read the articles posted by Richard and see what they have to say. DW Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/rfidler_8%40sympatico.ca Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Human Rights Lawyer Arrested For Standing On NYC Sidewalk While Waiting For Children To Use Bathroom: Gothamist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://gothamist.com/2014/09/03/nypd_sidewalk_arrest.php Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Salaita firing shows where Zionism meets neoliberalism at US universities | The Electronic Intifada
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://electronicintifada.net/content/salaita-firing-shows-where-zionism-meets-neoliberalism-us-universities/13826 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] What gets you labeled a foreign agent in Russia these days
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 9/3/14 5:48 PM, Lüko Willms via Marxism wrote: on Mittwoch, 3. September 2014 at 14:34, Thomas Campbell via Marxism wrote: Local NGO Latest to Be Listed as ‘Foreign Agent’ Just have a look at US-american laws. Search for Voorhis (or is itt Voorhuis?) I don't know much about the problems NGO's face in the USA but I have been following the victimization of dissidents pretty carefully. Pussy Riot goes to prison for sacrilege while a couple of people who had sexual intercourse in St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC in order to get mentioned on a shock jock radio show got a slap on the wrist. In Russia you can't even get permission to organize a gay pride demonstration while in NYC the Catholic Church finally dropped opposition to gay groups being contingents of the St. Patrick's Day parade. These freedoms were not gifts from the ruling class but won through struggle. Russia is in the throes of a nationalistic/Orthodox church deep freeze and it is regrettable that so many on the left cheer Putin on as if he is Che Guevara. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Scottish independence
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Sandy posted his (her?) own article at http://tinyurl.com/na5azzm Neil Davidson has replied with this, an important article that approaches the question from the correct standpoint of revolutionary socialist strategy, something that is largely overlooked by many radicals today: http://tinyurl.com/mny9otu Richard -Original Message- From: Marxism [mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu] On Behalf Of sandy McBurney via Marxism Sent: September-03-14 6:41 PM To: rfidle...@sympatico.ca Subject: [Marxism] Scottish independence == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == For a No Vote without Illusions: On the Scottish Independence Referendum For a No Vote without Illusions: On the Scottish Indepen... The working class in Britain has been created in over two hundred years of common struggle against the British capitalist class and the British capitalist state... View on www.socialistproject... Preview by Yahoo Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/rfidler_8%40sympatico.ca Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] English radicals in support of Scottish independence
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Richard Fidler: Neil Davidson ... the correct standpoint of revolutionary socialist strategy...: http://www.socialistproject.org/the-left/for-a-yes-vote-without-illusions-on-the-scottish-independence-referendum/ You mean obscurantist correctness like this: We need to begin with what I regard as fundamental principles. Socialists cannot be nationalists for any nation, but especially not their own, *even if their nation is oppressed*. What they can do is support certain national movements and demands, up to and including secession. The basis for deciding which-if any to support in any given situation is political, which is not to say that it can be determined by the blunt instrument of the 'oppressed/oppressor' formula: there are situations where even oppressed nationalities cannot be supported if their objectives are essentially part of a greater imperialist strategy, as was the case for Pan-Slavism in 1848, for Serbia in 1914 and for the Iraqi Kurds today. And Scotland is not, and has never been, an oppressed nation. As one commentator to Davidson's piece quite rightly wrote about his argumentation:'For a yes vote without any illusions there is any point voting yes?' Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Scottish independence
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Richard Fidler: Neil Davidson ... the correct standpoint of revolutionary socialist strategy...: http://www.socialistproject.org/the-left/for-a-yes-vote-without-illusions-on-the-scottish-independence-referendum/ You mean obscurantist correctness like this: We need to begin with what I regard as fundamental principles. Socialists cannot be nationalists for any nation, but especially not their own, even if their nation is oppressed. What they can do is support certain national movements and demands, up to and including secession. The basis for deciding which-if any to support in any given situation is political, which is not to say that it can be determined by the blunt instrument of the 'oppressed/oppressor' formula: there are situations where even oppressed nationalities cannot be supported if their objectives are essentially part of a greater imperialist strategy, as was the case for Pan-Slavism in 1848, for Serbia in 1914 and for the Iraqi Kurds today. And Scotland is not, and has never been, an oppressed nation. As one commentator to Davidson's piece quite rightly wrote about his argumentation:'For a yes vote without any illusions there is any point voting yes?' Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
