Re: [Marxism] On that Birth of a Nation thread: Eugene V. Debs denounces it in no uncertain terms...

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Debs still looks at Negroes as though they were completely uneducated and 
devoid of culture, though he does credit black people with humanity and the 
ability to achieve equality with whites. Wythe

> On July 3, 2020 at 10:36 AM Jeffrey Masko via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
> 
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> 
> Plenty of folks nailed it, like Oscar Micheaux, yet when people bring up
> DWG, they rarely look at how it brought black filmmakers into a greater
> light as they sought representation on th screen.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, 3:34 PM DW via Marxism  mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu >
> wrote:
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> > 
> > > >
> 
> > > 
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/debs/works/1916/160108-debs-birthofanation.pdf
> > 
> > > 
> > > For a person in 1916, Debs nails it.
> > 
> > > 
> > > To be published in Volume 4 of our 6 Volume collection of Deb's 
> writings.
> > Volume 2 is now out.
> > 
> > > 
> > > David Walters
> > _
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Re: [Marxism] Bela Fleck/Abigail Wishburn Streamed on You Tube Today

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I think Bela is a fairly popular boy's name in Hungarian. Was Fleck named after 
Bartok? I must say I like bluegrass, and some country-and-western, but music is 
almost always only a background for me. I have forgotten my mask twice, and it 
does feel odd to suddenly find yourself without one when you discover you have 
left it home. Unlike many, I don't mind wearing the masks, but remembering them 
is always difficult. I keep them located in a chair right near the door to my 
apartment, to remind me.
Take care, John my friend, and be safe. It is getting harder. WH


> On June 28, 2020 at 1:12 PM John A Imani  wrote:
> 
> My Man!
> 
> Though I like his playing, and am fond of bluegrass, what was of moment 
> to me was the BLM sign behind him and his wife.  Bluegrass and BLM, a tasty 
> heady concoction for these times.
> 
> I don't listen much either and music videos don't do it for me.  I 
> stopped listening to popular music when disco came in and it was then I knew 
> that our revolution had failed.  But my girlfriend is deeply into it and it 
> was she who introduced me to Bela Fleck.  But I turned it around and turned 
> her on to Django Reinhardt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_Reinhardt and 
> Stephane Grapelli. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Grappelli  
> 
> In the 60s I belittled the importance of culture.  This probably because 
> of the fratricidal rift between the Panthers and the US organization 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Organization#Rivalry_with_the_Black_Panthers_(1969)
>  which was heavy into African culture.  And killing Panthers.  How wrong I 
> was about the music of our time, I can see in retrospect.  Music helped move 
> the movement forward.
> 
> I had hoped to find that his name was given in honor of Bela Kun, of the 
> short-lived Hungarian SSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_Kun , who 
> was martyred by Stalin.  But he has 3 given names all of them after musicians.
> 
> Take care and b safe,  Dumb assed me, went out to CVS this morning 
> without mask.  First time I forgot.  Gon put a cheap one in my pocket as a 
> guard against old age.
> 
> JAI
> 
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 8:50 AM < wytheh...@cox.net 
> mailto:wytheh...@cox.net > wrote:
> 
> > > Music is wonderful, for most people, John, but I have to 
> confess that I am tone deaf and have never been much of a fan of music. I 
> know it is strange, but then I am strange in many ways. I am the only person 
> I know who is not into music much at all -- I love the local classical music 
> station, we are lucky to have such a station here in Tidewater VA, but even 
> it is just background for my driving and I do not listen while at home. 
> Thanks for trying to clue me in, I imagine this is all just great, but I 
> cannot get into it. In solidarity nevertheless, Wythe
> > 
> > 
> > > > > On June 27, 2020 at 9:44 PM John A Imani < 
> > johnaima...@gmail.com mailto:johnaima...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > > 
> > > Comrade,
> > > 
> > > Watching just an awesome recital by the couple 
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8p3HNGmEkA .  Banjos with a "Black Lives 
> > > Matter" sign as background.  They promised to stream it for a few weeks.  
> > > The first part is a Jazz trio that did not interest me as I came to hear 
> > > Bela.  Me and V have seen him at least twice, maybe 3,4 times. 
> > > 
> > > If only interested in this part its easy to navigate to it 
> > > just move cursor to almost the end that isn't.  Their performance is 
> > > maybe 25 - 30 mins long.
> > > 
> > > They do a song on the indigenous.  She sings one in Chinese 
> > > that she learned during an extended stay in Sichuan.  They duet on a 
> > > Hank, Sr tune.  Sing an Abbey Lincoln 
> > > https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Abbey+Lincoln+ tune 
> > > introduced by pointing at her activism.  Last thing "Take me to Harlem" 
> > > with great lyrics but, I think, musically missing something.  Maybe a 
> > > gospel choir.
> > > 
> > > Comrade, I am far from a musicologist but know what I like 
> > > when I hear it.
> > > 
> > > In the 60's the soundtrack to our lives was cause and effect 
> > > of our struggles, protests, movements.  There must be a music of this 
> > > movement.  Maybe musics.  But Fleck's incursion of his politics into this 
> > > Allegheny world sounds a tocsin for others to follow.  Not just bluegrass 
> > > but C&W, folk, rap, R&B, classical, jazz and blues.
> > > 
> > > We must find, encourage and support our troubadors-to-be.  I 
> > > know

Re: [Marxism] Bela Fleck/Abigail Wishburn Streamed on You Tube Today

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Music is wonderful, for most people, John, but I have to confess that I am tone 
deaf and have never been much of a fan of music. I know it is strange, but then 
I am strange in many ways. I am the only person I know who is not into music 
much at all -- I love the local classical music station, we are lucky to have 
such a station here in Tidewater VA, but even it is just background for my 
driving and I do not listen while at home. Thanks for trying to clue me in, I 
imagine this is all just great, but I cannot get into it. In solidarity 
nevertheless, Wythe


> On June 27, 2020 at 9:44 PM John A Imani  wrote:
> 
> Comrade,
> 
> Watching just an awesome recital by the couple 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8p3HNGmEkA .  Banjos with a "Black Lives 
> Matter" sign as background.  They promised to stream it for a few weeks.  The 
> first part is a Jazz trio that did not interest me as I came to hear Bela.  
> Me and V have seen him at least twice, maybe 3,4 times. 
> 
> If only interested in this part its easy to navigate to it just move 
> cursor to almost the end that isn't.  Their performance is maybe 25 - 30 mins 
> long.
> 
> They do a song on the indigenous.  She sings one in Chinese that she 
> learned during an extended stay in Sichuan.  They duet on a Hank, Sr tune.  
> Sing an Abbey Lincoln 
> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Abbey+Lincoln+ tune 
> introduced by pointing at her activism.  Last thing "Take me to Harlem" with 
> great lyrics but, I think, musically missing something.  Maybe a gospel choir.
> 
> Comrade, I am far from a musicologist but know what I like when I hear it.
> 
> In the 60's the soundtrack to our lives was cause and effect of our 
> struggles, protests, movements.  There must be a music of this movement.  
> Maybe musics.  But Fleck's incursion of his politics into this Allegheny 
> world sounds a tocsin for others to follow.  Not just bluegrass but C&W, 
> folk, rap, R&B, classical, jazz and blues.
> 
> We must find, encourage and support our troubadors-to-be.  I know one 
> personally.  Devin Hoff is a world-class bassist 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devin_Hoff who shifts through the varied music 
> scenes listed above with grace, fluidity, mastery of himself and his 
> instrument, bass.  Even better is his politics.  Even better is the man.  He 
> currently lives and will soon be active again in NYC, hopefully the C19thing 
> will be beaten even though it is 'managed' by a rudy-poot nincompoop.
> 
> But as for Bela Fleck and Abigail Wishburn's presentation all that was 
> missing, besides the gospel choir, was Doc and Merle Watson but, alas, both 
> are gone.
> 
> 
> Freihofer's Jazz Fest: Béla Fleck & Abigail Washburn with Skidmore Jazz 
> Institute Alumni Trio 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8p3HNGmEkA
> 
> JAI
> 
 
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Re: [Marxism] Gone With the Wind

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The first time I heard a great Mozart opera, I remember how sexist and classist 
its plot was. I left the music hall filled with wonder at how good the music 
was and how socially defective the plot and lyrics were.  Nobody is suggesting 
that we throw Mozart out the window.  One can focus on the beautiful while not 
forgetting the ugly and the context within which it was written.

> On June 26, 2020 at 7:43 PM Michael Meeropol  wrote:
> 
> Here's an example --- In many Marx brothers films, there are incredibly 
> stereotyped blacks hanging around, dancing, etc. --- Groucho would often 
> refer to them as "darkies" --- You have to be inured to those elements but I 
> expect that the more sensitive one is, the less likely is one to be willing 
> to ignore that shit and focus on the incredibly clever humor ---
> 
> I wonder if I could stomach watching "A Day at the Races" again ...Maybe 
> just stop watching near the end!!!
> 
> 
> > > Most movies made before the 1960s, that come close to 
> dealing with race or with having racial or racialized components or figures 
> in them, are going to be suspect on these grounds. This is going to be a 
> case-by-case search and decision-making process, and there will be many close 
> calls, though all movies should have a copy at a central museum of film. I am 
> for keeping "Casablanca" in regular use, as I deem its racist components too 
> minor to cause such a good and classic film to disappear from public 
> availability. But that sort of judgment must be applied to many films; some 
> will be put away, most (I suspect) will survive. WH
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > > 
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Re: [Marxism] Gone With the Wind

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Most movies made before the 1960s, that come close to dealing with race or with 
having racial or racialized components or figures in them, are going to be 
suspect on these grounds. This is going to be a case-by-case search and 
decision-making process, and there will be many close calls, though all movies 
should have a copy at a central museum of film. I am for keeping "Casablanca" 
in regular use, as I deem its racist components too minor to cause such a good 
and classic film to disappear from public availability. But that sort of 
judgment must be applied to many films; some will be put away, most (I suspect) 
will survive. WH

> On June 26, 2020 at 5:40 PM John A Imani via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
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> 
> Did not assert that. Museumed is what needs to be done with these, as I
> wrote, with a critique. As, I believe, that TCM is going to do exactly
> that with GWTW, i.e. shown with a socio-political analysis preceding and
> following the film. And TCM is such a museum open to all.
> 
> What about "Casablanca" with Dooley Wilson's 'Sam' and Ingrid Bergman's
> 'Elsa' asking 'Renault', the Vichy official, about the "boy" playing the
> piano? With its magnificent music accompanying. Not only "As Time Goes
> By" but with the stirring anti-fascist rendition of "La Marseillaise"
> conjured up by the courage of 'Victor Laszlo'? Yet another remarkable and
> classic piece of film only to be available "to be studied in film 
> classes"?
> 
> Etc., etc., etc.
> 
> JAI
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:10 PM A.R. G  mailto:amithrgu...@gmail.com > wrote:
> 
> > > Even Birth of a Nation, to my understanding, was treated as a 
> cinematic
> > accomplishment. Maybe both should be studied in film classes but 
> > they need
> > not be treated as normal/socially acceptable films to be screened 
> > just for
> > entertainment.
> > 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 12:34 PM John A Imani via Marxism <
> > marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > >>
> >> I am black. 72 years old. An anarcho-Marxian. And, as an adult, have
> >> logged 50+ years of participation in many many movements always to be 
> found
> >> in the same place: on the front line. I make those statements because I
> >> have never sought nor accepted the privileges of race, age, my grasp of
> >> politico-economics and/or the braggadocio resulting from "Jaws"-like
> >> comparisons of battle scars.
> >>
> >> And because of these experiences and this disposition I invite 
> criticism
> >> as I have never feared being wrong only of being incorrect. And, on 
> this,
> >> especially at this special time.
> >>
> >> "GWTW" is beautifully filmed, finely acted, magnificently scored, if
> >> historically inaccurate, depiction of the ante-, inter- and post-bellum
> >> South. It is a work of art even if also an agent of racism. It--like
> >> statues and monuments klan outfittings and speeches--belongs with those
> >> brethren in a museum. And alongside these mementos explanations and
> >> criticisms giving these their proper contexts. In this case that 
> museum's
> >> name is TCM.
> >>
> >> I recently saw for the first time Hattie McDaniels' acceptance speech
> >>  for winning the Acad 
> Award
> >> for Best Supporting Actor. It was as magnificent as it was short,
> >> emotional and uplifting. It was as grand as her portrayal of 'Mammy' in
> >> the film wherein I have never seen an actor so embody the conscious as 
> well
> >> as the subconsciousness of the character portrayed. Do we burn that 
> film
> >> as some have burned books?
> >>
> >> JAI
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Re: [Marxism] AFL-CIO "Leader" Richard Trumka Defends Police Unions by Comparing Them to Employers

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So Trumka is equating "employers" and "cops" -- and he thinks that is 
acceptable?  Wythe


> On June 23, 2020 at 10:22 AM Dennis Brasky via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
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> 
> >
> >
> >
> > https://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/22616/afl-cio-richard-trumka-black-lives-matter-police-unions
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Marxism] After Weeks Of Anticipation, Trump Rally Crowd Underwhel ms | HuffPost

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He is psychologically incapable of doing something that says he is not the very 
best. That trumps his old-shomanship. Wythe

> On June 21, 2020 at 11:36 AM Jim Farmelant via Marxism 
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> 
> 
> One would have thought that an old showman like Trump would have made a 
> point of dampening now expectations prior to that event. Then, afterwards, 
> regardless of the actual turnout he could have spun it as a spectacular 
> triumph. Instead, he did the very opposite.
> 
> 
> Jim Farmelant
> http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant
> http://www.foxymath.com
> Learn or Review Basic Math
> 
> 
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> 
> https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-tulsa-oklahoma-rally_n_5eee95adc5b6aac5f3a45f37
> 
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Re: [Marxism] On the NASCAR's Banning of the Confederate Flag and its Social Implications

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Thanks for these scenes from your life in the south, and then in LA, John. I 
wish I were in your Mao classes. I really like the episode where you are 
cussing the cop for being a cop (=oppressor) and he says he took the job to 
protect the poor and the weak, but my guess is that he, like most of them, do 
what cops are supposed to do when push comes to shove (apt phrasing) he will 
shoot you or otherwise harm you; there may be exceptions, but somehow you don't 
run up against them when you are marching or at an angry demonstration. Yes, it 
is the social roles that define us for the most part, and I have seen good 
people crumble under the pressure.

I was certainly not a born communist, nor were you, though you came a lot 
closer. I have grown into my political beliefs, slowly, haltingly, but the 
graph doggedly runs to the left. I am glad you will not change to meet the 
times. Me either. I am glad we met on this listserv. WH


> On June 19, 2020 at 1:48 PM John A Imani  wrote:
> 
> << the symbols of segregation NEED to be in museums today>>
> 
> Thanx for this.  RT.  I grew up a Bama football fan.  And remained so 
> subsequent to moving to LA in S '63 after finishing 9th grade.  My girl and I 
> went to Saban's first Bama championship at the Rose Bowl in 2010.  I missed 
> the UA's integration but my older sister knew Vivian Malone.  I missed that 
> but here are some of the things that happened while there:
> 
> I grew up in Mobile, AL until I was 15.  Went to Catholic school.  As all 
> boys thought I wanted to be a priest.  My barely older first cousin was and 
> became Monsignor before his early death from MS.
> 
> The South.  I was at a Mardi Gras parade about 10 years old.  There was 
> another black kid next to me bout the same age.  And a third kid same age, 
> white, walking in front of the coming parade and selling peanuts.  Little 
> black kid held out a dime and the white kid said "Y'all want some pie-nuts?"  
> The black kid said "Yes, sir. 
> 
> Or playing stickball and running after a well hit liner.  Getting ball 
> and throwing back to infield.  Saw a station wagon with a carload of nuns.  
> "Damn, they must be lost."  Ran over to help and got within 20ft and saw the 
> driver needed a shave. 
> 
> White man In a summer suit comes to our door.  5 or 6 years old, I open 
> it.Probably selling insurance or something.  Man looks down at me and 
> said, "Damn.  You look just like a li'l ole Jew."  I beamed at such a 
> description.  Meant I was white-like.
> 
> 15 years later at LACC, 1967.  Saw paramilitary-looking brothers slowly 
> marching in formation onto the school grounds.  In camouflage jackets and 
> holding a Red Book in their hands in their crooked arms.  I'm thinking, "They 
> must be communists or something".  I felt sorry for them.  "They don't even 
> know God". 
> 
> Two years later, I'm BMoC.  Chairman of Political Affairs.  Teaching 'Mao 
> Tes-Tung Thought ' to LACC BSU and Section 3A of the Black Panther Party.  
> Walking across main drag, Vermont Ave, and a older cop on a motorcycle says 
> "How do you do?"  I knew who the cops were from Selma and whole bunch of sht. 
>  Viciously I let out a blur of obscenities punctuated with "Pig" and "Donuts" 
> and a bunch of "Fuck You's".  The guy almost cried, saying, "I'ma Christian 
> man.  I got this job to look out for the poor and the weak."  As I told a 
> nun, I am in recontact with after my 50th class reunion in 2016, "I went from 
> 7 feet tall, to 7 inches small". 
> 
> I still hate the cops but, against all odds, there can be and are 
> exceptions.  But their prime directive is the preservation of the sanctity of 
> private property and (to paraphrase) it is not the nature of the men that 
> determine their social roles, it is their social roles that determine the 
> nature of the men.  90% of good men and women who go into that function are 
> changed from their evangelist roles that prompted them to sign on.  And these 
> only a minority of all those who go into that so-called 'profession'.
> 
> No one, today, is a born communist.  In truth, save in extreme fortunate 
> circumstances ('Red Diaper babies') we are closer to being 'natural born 
> capitalists' because of the pervasive invasive ethos that starts at birth and 
> continually bombard us with 'me-isms'.   Those of us who have changed, who 
> have moved 'leftwards', all have been through stages in life.  We all have 
> learned from these or we did not.  But we all had the chance to learn. 
> 
> What I am saying is, maybe I look at things the way I do cause of the way 
> I've been.  And I coul

Re: [Marxism] On the NASCAR's Banning of the Confederate Flag and its Social Implications

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The top Klansmen didn't have white robes, but brightly hued ones.  I discovered 
this when my grandfather died in the summer of 1953 and I was deemed old enough 
at 11 to help my dad and uncle clear out his huge old house.  I was allotted 
the task of seeing what was in the attic.  I opened a closet door and 
discovered hanging there a dust-ridden orange Klan robe complete with pointy 
top.  My deeply embarrassed dad, over my supposedly childish objections that 
this was important to history, immediately burned the robe along with most of 
the other effects of my grandfather in a bonfire in the yard.  I now muse about 
the irony that, the more important the rank of the Klansman, the more colored 
his robe was.  Wythe
PS -- John, when I landed the job at the University of Alabama and got to 
Tuscaloosa in September 1966, there were signs on public water fountains 
designating the proper race of a drinker therefrom.  When I left Alabama in 
2007 a group of us were working on getting actually desegregated elementary 
school classes in the state's Black Belt (the school boards were grouping the 
pupils by supposed ability, and lo and behold! almost all the most "able" 
children turned out to be white!).  Given the doggedness of continued racist 
intransigence, the symbols of segregation NEED to be in museums today, such as 
the one in Selma founded by Rose Sanders (one of my heroes, a friend, and a 
fellow worker in the desegregation trenches) which shows Selma's struggles -- 
desegregation, the marches, the bridge-crossings, the demonstrations, and the 
federal legislation such as the Voting Rights Act which has resulted from 
continuing mostly-black activism centered in Selma.

> On June 18, 2020 at 10:18 PM John A Imani via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
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> 
> << Indeed I can imagine a world in which these symbols are removed while
> the racist conditions that gave rise to them remain.>>
> 
> And indeed I can imagine a world in which the racist conditions are gone
> while these 'symbols' remain: in books and museums where they belong.
> 
> What is the effect of the sight of a Klan hood, masked conic hat and
> chewing tobacco-stained flowing was-white robe?  What comes to mind when a
> noose is tied from a prominent tree, the grace of its Spanish moss belied?
> The burning of a cross?  The signs  "Colored",  "Whites Only" on the
> restrooms, the water fountains, the lunch counters, the bus depot, the
> trains?  The Confederate flag?  More than signs.  Warnings.
> 
> 'Symbols' speak more than the picture's words.
> 
> Socially recognized, socially understood, socially enforced conventions.
> Southern blacks were almost born knowing where the back of the bus was.
> Which school to attend.  Who to let pass on the sidewalk by stepping onto
> the unpaved easement:  "Yes, Suh", "No, Ma'am".
> 
> Yes, I can imagine a world where historians' can comment in pages and
> inscribe their analyses of such 'symbols' on plaques; where students can be
> taught in our schools; where the merely curious can leaf through a book or
> walk hallowed galleries and pause and think and shake their heads in amazed
> disgust in a land where skin color itself has ceased to be the symbol.
> 
> I join comrade Wythe as a child of the South, fleeing Mason and Dixon's
> line, at the age of 15 but having seen much, enough.  I differ with and
> from the comrade only by being born black.
> 
> JAI
> 
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:03 PM A.R. G  wrote:
> 
> Very much appreciate Wythe's insight as a Southerner...
> Indeed I can imagine a world in which these symbols are removed while the
> racist conditions that gave rise to them remain.
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Re: [Marxism] How to abolish the police: lessons from Rojava (Green Left)

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How large and diverse are those neighborhoods? I do not imagine that a 
grandmother wielding an AK-47 and standing on any corner around here would 
inspire feelings of relief, calm, and thankfulness.

> On June 6, 2020 at 7:38 AM Chris Slee via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
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> https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/how-abolish-police-lessons-rojava
> 
> 
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Re: [Marxism] The Police Are Rioting. We Need to Talk About It.

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The police are not there to serve you and me, or to do justice. They were 
invented and trained to put down crowd action (such as strikes) by the emerging 
working class in the period 1825-1855, as an excellent history I think posted 
to this list about 10 days ago pointed out, and so far as I can see, their 
training and their charge have not been changed. They are still acting in an 
arrogant and high-handed fashion to divide apart the working class, using force 
and racism, and to destroy capable members of the working class so they cannot 
revolt. The police are not rioting. They are just doing their job.
Wythe Holt

> On June 5, 2020 at 3:58 PM Louis Proyect via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
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> 
> NY Times Op-Ed, June 5, 2020
> The Police Are Rioting. We Need to Talk About It.
> By Jamelle Bouie
> 
> If we’re going to speak of rioting protesters, then we need to speak of
> rioting police as well. No, they aren’t destroying property. But it is
> clear from news coverage, as well as countless videos taken by
> protesters and bystanders, that many police are using often
> indiscriminate violence against people — against anyone, including the
> peaceful majority of demonstrators, who happens to be in the streets.
> 
> Rioting police have driven vehicles into crowds, reproducing the assault
> that killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017. They have
> surrounded a car, smashed the windows, tazed the occupants and dragged
> them out onto the ground. Clad in paramilitary gear, they have attacked
> elderly bystanders, pepper-sprayed cooperative protesters and shot
> “nonlethal” rounds directly at reporters, causing serious injuries. In
> Austin, Texas, a 20-year-old man is in critical condition after being
> shot in the head with a “less-lethal” round. Across the country, rioting
> police are using tear gas in quantities that threaten the health and
> safety of demonstrators, especially in the midst of a respiratory
> disease pandemic.
> 
> None of this quells disorder. Everything, from the militaristic posture
> to the attacks themselves, does more to inflame and agitate protesters
> than it does to calm the situation and bring order to the streets. In
> effect, rioting police have done as much to stoke unrest and destabilize
> the situation as those responsible for damaged buildings and burning
> cars. But where rioting protesters can be held to account for
> destruction and violence, rioting police have the imprimatur of the state.
> 
> What we’ve seen from rioting police, in other words, is an assertion of
> power and impunity. In the face of mass anger over police brutality,
> they’ve effectively said So what? In the face of demands for change and
> reform — in short, in the face of accountability to the public they’re
> supposed to serve — they’ve bucked their more conciliatory colleagues
> with a firm No. In which case, if we want to understand the behavior of
> the past two weeks, we can’t just treat it as an explosion of wanton
> violence, we have to treat it as an attack on civil society and
> democratic accountability, one rooted in a dispute over who has the
> right to hold the police to account.
> 
> African-American observers have never had any illusions about who the
> police are meant to serve. The police, James Baldwin wrote in his 1960
> essay on discontent and unrest in Harlem, “represent the face of the
> white world, and that world’s real intentions are simply for that
> world’s criminal profit and ease, to keep the black man corralled up in
> his place.” This wasn’t because each individual officer was a bad
> person, but because he was fundamentally separate from the black
> community as a matter of history and culture. “None of the police
> commissioner’s men, even with the best will in the world, have any way
> of understanding the lives led by the people they swagger about in twos
> and threes controlling.”
> 
> Go back to the beginning of the 20th century, during America’s first age
> of progressive reform, as the historian Khalil Gibran Muhammad does in
> “The Condemnation of Blackness

Re: [Marxism] New York Times Says Senator’s Op-Ed Did Not Meet Standards

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This was no mistake, Louis.

> On June 5, 2020 at 2:17 PM Louis Proyect via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
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> 
> (The Gray Lady airs its dirty laundry.)
> 
> NY Times, June 5, 2020
> New York Times Says Senator’s Op-Ed Did Not Meet Standards
> By Marc Tracy, Rachel Abrams and Edmund Lee
> 
> Executives at The New York Times scrambled on Thursday to address the
> concerns of employees and readers who were angered by the newspaper’s
> publication of an opinion essay by a United States senator calling for
> the federal government to send the military to suppress protests against
> police violence in American cities.
> 
> James Bennet, the editor in charge of the opinion section, said in a
> meeting with staff members late in the day that he had not read the
> essay before it was published. Shortly afterward, The Times issued a
> statement saying the essay fell short of the newspaper’s standards.
> 
> “We’ve examined the piece and the process leading up to its
> publication,” Eileen Murphy, a Times spokeswoman, said in a statement.
> “This review made clear that a rushed editorial process led to the
> publication of an Op-Ed that did not meet our standards. As a result,
> we’re planning to examine both short-term and long-term changes, to
> include expanding our fact-checking operation and reducing the number of
> Op-Eds we publish.”
> 
> The Op-Ed, by Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas, was posted on the
> Times website on Wednesday afternoon with “Send In the Troops” as its
> headline. “One thing above all else will restore order to our streets:
> an overwhelming show of force to disperse, detain and ultimately deter
> lawbreakers,” the senator wrote.
> 
> More than 800 staff members signed a letter protesting its publication,
> according to a union member involved in the letter. Addressed to
> high-ranking editors in the opinion and news divisions, as well as New
> York Times Company executives, the letter argued that Mr. Cotton’s essay
> contained misinformation, such as his depiction of the role of “antifa”
> in the protests.
> 
> Dozens of Times employees objected to the Op-Ed on social media, despite
> a company policy that instructs them not to post partisan comments or
> take sides on issues. Many of them responded on Twitter with the
> sentence, “Running this puts Black @NYTimes staff in danger.” More than
> 160 employees planned a virtual walkout for Friday morning, according to
> two organizers of the protest.
> 
> Conversation and debate filled videoconference meetings for many
> newsroom departments on Thursday. The newspaper scheduled a town-hall
> meeting for Friday to allow employees to express their concerns to
> company leaders, including A. G. Sulzberger, the publisher; Dean Baquet,
> the executive editor; and Mr. Bennet, the editorial page editor.
> 
> Mr. Bennet said in a video meeting attended by Mr. Sulzberger and
> employees late on Thursday that he had not read Mr. Cotton’s essay
> before it was published, according to two people who were present.
> 
> On Thursday morning, Mr. Sulzberger had sent an email to the staff
> backing the Op-Ed’s publication.
> 
> “I believe in the principle of openness to a range of opinions, even
> those we may disagree with, and this piece was published in that
> spirit,” he wrote. “But it’s essential that we listen to and reflect on
> the concerns we’re hearing, as we would with any piece that is the
> subject of significant criticism. I will do so with an open mind.”
> 
> He added, “We don’t publish just any argument — they need to be
> accurate, good faith explorations of the issues of the day.”
> 
> On Thursday night, Mr. Sulzberger struck a somewhat different tone in a
> Slack message sent to company employees. He said that “a rushed
> editorial process” led to the publication of an Op-Ed “that did not meet
> our standards.” He added that an editor’s note from the newspaper’s
> standards department was on its way.
> 
> “Given that this is not the first lapse, the Opinion department will
> also be taking several initial steps t

Re: [Marxism] Reflections on my COVID-19 antibodies | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist

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Louis, you omitted the initial h when copying your URL -- Wythe

> On June 5, 2020 at 9:46 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
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> 
> The last couple of months leading up to a Quest serology test that
> yielded “positive” antibodies for COVID-19 have been a roller coaster
> ride. Take a seat in the car behind me, strap yourself in, and let me
> recount a story that Agatha Christie might have written.
> 
> The tale began last October when I suffered through bronchitis for most
> of the month. This viral infection of the bronchial tubes is just
> another illness to which geezers like me are susceptible. It is usually
> not fatal but can lead to hospitalization. After recovering, I began
> taking measures to avoid getting sick again. They included using Purell,
> avoiding touching my face, and all the other defenses that should
> prevent exposure to any virus, including COVID-19. Being ahead of the
> curve, how the hell did I end up with antibodies?
> 
> full:
> ttps://louisproyect.org/2020/06/05/reflections-on-my-covid-19-antibodies/
> 
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Re: [Marxism] George Floyd had 'violent criminal history': Minneapolis union chief

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Precisely, Louis. Floyd's past history had zero to do with his murder.

> On June 3, 2020 at 4:46 PM Ralph Johansen via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
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> 
> Louis Proyect wrote
> 
> (A familiar refrain as if being an ex-con excuses someone's knee on his
> neck for over 8 minutes.)
> 
> “What is not being told is the violent criminal history of George Floyd.
> The media will not air this,” police union president Bob Kroll told his
> members in a letter posted Monday on Twitter.
> 
> Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and
> robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of
> charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail
> reported.
> 
> 
> https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/george-floyd-had-violent-criminal-history-minneapolis-union-chief/
> 
> -
> 
> ["The head of the Minneapolis police union says George Floyd’s “violent
> criminal history” needs to be remembered and that the protests over his
> death are the work of a “terrorist movement.”
> 
> Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and
> robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of
> charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail
> reported
> <."]" rel="noopener" 
> target="_blank">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html>."]
>  
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8366533/George-Floyd-moved-Minneapolis-start-new-life-released-prison-Texas.html
> 
> Sounds like there goes what middle class support there might have been
> for the protests. The largest middle class buffer between the working
> class and corporate power on the planet. More divide and rule.
> 
> And what charges will a middle class jury convict Chauvin for, let alone
> the others charged, with this information before them? Especially now
> that a Black Muslim State Attorney General, Keith Ellison, will now lead
> the prosecution?
> 
> And what does that mean for any meaningful "reform" of police conduct?
> We know the answer to that from the last 200+ years of racism -- squat.
> 
> So will the next murder of a Black person by the cops see increasingly
> militarized police clamping down from the get-go, with surveillance,
> drones, lethal automated weapons? And where do we go from there?
> 
> We're not rich enough to go into outer space and colonize with Jeff
> Bezos and Elon Musk.
> 
> I visualize a response similar to the million-person gathering at the
> Washington Monument against the US war on the Vietnamese people, only
> next time, 3 million or 5 million pushing down the barriers around the
> White House. Will the military follow their Comdr in Chief's orders to
> fire on that many of their fellow beings? And then what?
> 
> Well, that's my vision.
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Re: [Marxism] Riots? Maybe not so radical

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It may be seen as a good thing, Mark, that so many people demonstrated without 
the kind of mass coordination you are used to. Numbers are indeed paramount 
when demonstrating against the police and against official misconduct, but the 
most important thing, as I see it, is commitment -- and apparently many 
Cincinnatians are committed to opposing police violence and police murders. 
When you and your friends swell those numbers, the uprising will be even more 
significant. In solidarity, Wythe

> On May 30, 2020 at 8:42 AM Mark Lause via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
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> 
> There was apparently a big demonstration last night in Cincinnati. It
> reportedly blocked Highway 75 for forty-five minutes. I live only a few
> streets away from the entrance ramp to that interstate. I don't know yet
> who organized it, but I assume the remains of BLM with some of the "cadre"
> groups. The point is that I am on every local list and site I could be and
> didn't hear a goddamned thing about it. I also live in a neighborhood
> where people surely should have heard about it and I'd be surprised that
> any of them did.
> Are we so far from the last wave of ongoing mass movements that the
> organizers don't know how to build these things--even to the point of not
> circulating notices. Or maybe they think the way to do is on the masonic
> model?
> 
> The only way to address issues like police brutality and racism is with
> numbers. It's an old lesson and we shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel
> every generation.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark L.
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Re: [Marxism] Class struggle in the New Testament | Robert Myles | Culture Matters

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They did hold property in common. There are also records of women leading 
Jesus-group congregations, as Paul reports (and his letters are the earliest 
extant evidence for Christianity and its roots).

> On May 27, 2020 at 12:40 PM John A Imani via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
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> 
> 31 As they prayed, the house where they were assembled rocked. From this
> time they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to proclaim the
> word of God fearlessly.
> 
> 32 The whole group of believers was united, heart and soul; no one claimed
> private ownership of any possessions, as everything they owned was held in
> common.
> 
> 33 The apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus
> with great power, and they were all accorded great respect.
> 
> 34 None of their members was ever in want, as all those who owned land or
> houses would sell them, and bring the money from the sale of them,
> 
> 35 to present it to the apostles; it was then distributed to any who might
> be in need.
> 
> “Acts.” Chapter 4.
> *http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=51&bible_chapter=4 
> http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=51&bible_chapter=4
> <*" rel="noopener" 
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>  http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=51&bible_chapter=4
> 
> JAI
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Re: [Marxism] Class struggle in the New Testament | Robert Myles | Culture Matters

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I find the work of Marxist historian Richard A. Horsley, who has written many 
books about Jesus as an emerging political revolutionary hanged by a Roman 
state worried about rebellion in Palestine, to be quite worthwhile.  Three of 
Horsley's notable books are The Message and the Kingdom (1997, with Neil Asher 
Silberman); Jesus and Empire: The Kingdom of God and the New World Disorder 
(2003), and Jesus and the Politics of Roman Palestine (2014).  Wythe

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Re: [Marxism] Having The Flu And With Nothing Else To Do

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Thanks, Louis.  I am deeply honored and am blushing.  The move to Marx occurred 
when I was a fellow in Law and Humanities at Harvard Law School in 1975-76.  
The fellowship meant I could audit any undergraduate course, and I gleefully 
took every one (not in science) taught by a Marxist.  This, plus their reading, 
plus friendship with many graduate students and teaching assistants, moved me 
onto the road towards Marxism.  It greatly helped also that liberalism was (is) 
such a failure, at democracy, at equality, and at telling the truth.  And here 
I still am.  Wythe


> On May 11, 2020 at 11:16 AM Louis Proyect  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/11/20 10:51 AM, wytheh...@cox.net wrote:
> > I moved from liberalism to radicalism in my 30s. I am still a radical. 
> > People still treat me as though I escaped from a mental institution. 
> > Wythe Holt
> 
> Wythe is too modest to mention his background so I will do it for him. 
> It makes his transition all the more interesting.
> 
> 
> Wythe Holt
> 
> Professor Holt served on the Law School Faculty [of the University of 
> Alabama] from 1966 through 2005.  He received his B.A. from Amherst 
> College and his J.D. and Ph.D. (in American history) from the University 
> of Virginia.  In law school he was elected to Order of the Coif and 
> served as Virginia Editor of the Virginia Law Review.  Within the 
> Alabama Law School, Professor Holt received one of the first four Chairs 
> awarded, and is now University Research Professor of Law Emeritus.
> 
> Professor Holt taught and published in the fields of federal 
> jurisdiction, conflict of laws, trusts and estates, and future 
> interests, while his primary field of teaching and publication was 
> American legal history, particularly the history of American labor law. 
> In retirement his chief production has included books on the Whiskey 
> Rebellion of 1794, the early history of the American federal court 
> system, and a Civil War battle which took place near his hometown of 
> Hampton, Virginia.  At the University of Alabama, Professor Holt also 
> taught or co-taught courses in the English, History, American Studies, 
> African-American Studies (as it was then), New College, and Criminal 
> Justice departments of the College of Arts and Sciences.  He served as a 
> visiting professor at the law schools of George Washington University, 
> West Virginia University, and the University of Miami, and was a 
> visiting member of the faculty of history at the University of Virginia. 
>   He has also served as a visiting lecturer or professor at Mekelle 
> University in Ethiopia, Fribourg University in Switzerland, and the 
> Australian National University in Canberra.
> 
> Professor Holt was a founding member and early Secretary of the American 
> Society for Legal History.  He has served as Secretary of the Southwest 
> Labor Studies Association and as a member of the American Legal Studies 
> Association.  He also served in the University of Alabama Faculty Senate 
> for many years, being elected its President for one term by his peers there.

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Re: [Marxism] Having The Flu And With Nothing Else To Do

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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My response was, perhaps predictably given the touchiness of my email system, 
deleted by the internet. Here is the message I received:
The following message to  was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 550-'maximum allowed line length is 998 
octets, got 1054'
Of course no message was "following". I will try to respond again. Wythe

> On May 11, 2020 at 11:16 AM Louis Proyect  mailto:l...@panix.com > wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/11/20 10:51 AM, wytheh...@cox.net mailto:wytheh...@cox.net wrote:
> 
> > > I moved from liberalism to radicalism in my 30s. I am still a 
> radical.
> > People still treat me as though I escaped from a mental institution.
> > Wythe Holt
> > 
> > > Wythe is too modest to mention his background so I will do it for 
> > him.
> It makes his transition all the more interesting.
> 
> 
> Wythe Holt
> 
> Professor Holt served on the Law School Faculty [of the University of
> Alabama] from 1966 through 2005. He received his B.A. from Amherst
> College and his J.D. and Ph.D. (in American history) from the University
> of Virginia. In law school he was elected to Order of the Coif and
> served as Virginia Editor of the Virginia Law Review. Within the
> Alabama Law School, Professor Holt received one of the first four Chairs
> awarded, and is now University Research Professor of Law Emeritus.
> 
> Professor Holt taught and published in the fields of federal
> jurisdiction, conflict of laws, trusts and estates, and future
> interests, while his primary field of teaching and publication was
> American legal history, particularly the history of American labor law.
> In retirement his chief production has included books on the Whiskey
> Rebellion of 1794, the early history of the American federal court
> system, and a Civil War battle which took place near his hometown of
> Hampton, Virginia. At the University of Alabama, Professor Holt also
> taught or co-taught courses in the English, History, American Studies,
> African-American Studies (as it was then), New College, and Criminal
> Justice departments of the College of Arts and Sciences. He served as a
> visiting professor at the law schools of George Washington University,
> West Virginia University, and the University of Miami, and was a
> visiting member of the faculty of history at the University of Virginia.
> He has also served as a visiting lecturer or professor at Mekelle
> University in Ethiopia, Fribourg University in Switzerland, and the
> Australian National University in Canberra.
> 
> Professor Holt was a founding member and early Secretary of the American
> Society for Legal History. He has served as Secretary of the Southwest
> Labor Studies Association and as a member of the American Legal Studies
> Association. He also served in the University of Alabama Faculty Senate
> for many years, being elected its President for one term by his peers 
> there.
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Having The Flu And With Nothing Else To Do

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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I moved from liberalism to radicalism in my 30s. I am still a radical. People 
still treat me as though I escaped from a mental institution. Wythe Holt

> On May 11, 2020 at 9:46 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
> 
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> 
> Having The Flu And With Nothing Else To Do
> by Charles Bukowski
> 
> I read a book about John Dos Passos and according to
> the book once radical-communist
> John ended up in the Hollywood Hills living off investments
> and reading the
> Wall Street Journal
> 
> this seems to happen all too often.
> 
> what hardly ever happens is
> a man going from being a young conservative to becoming an
> old wild-ass radical
> 
> however:
> young conservatives always seem to become old
> conservatives.
> it's a kind of lifelong mental vapor-lock.
> 
> but when a young radical ends up an
> old radical
> the critics
> and the conservatives
> treat him as if he escaped from a mental
> institution.
> 
> such is our politics and you can have it
> all.
> 
> keep it.
> 
> sail it up your
> ass.
> 
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Re: [Marxism] THE RIGHT WING PREFERENCE FOR DOLLARS OVER LIVES

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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Frankly, I appreciate the thought and your effort, Mike, but it turned out to 
be pretty worthless venture.  Finding their thought, much less analyzing it, 
was not easy.  Wythe


> On April 11, 2020 at 10:55 AM Michael Meeropol via Marxism 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
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> *
> 
> I have the unfortunate "luck" of having a subscription to both NEWSMAX and
> MONEYNEWS --- both extreme right-wing on line "magazines."
> 
> Usually, I delete it without bothering to look at it but I saw the
> reference to Stephen Moore (a real right-wing creep) and decided to have a
> look at it.   Maybe (just maybe) it is worth it for (at least some of) us
> to check out how these maniacs think  The idea that they (and through
> them Trump their unthinking acolyte) are being so blatant about how much
> more important "the economy" (their dollars) is than human lives --- even
> on a vast scale  --- is disgusting but probably important to see with our
> own eyes.
> 
> In any event, those who have the stomach for actually checking how how
> these characters think and "reason" can check out their "rationales" here
> and elsewhere.
> 
> The rest can hit delete and ignore.
> 
> In solidarity (and disgust), Mike
> 
> https://www.newsmax.com/finance/economy/stephenmoore-coronavirus-economy/2020/04/09/id/962216/?ns_mail_uid=311e4642-c297-42ce-a4d4-78600795cff9&ns_mail_job=DM104539_0411220&s=acs&dkt_nbr=0101249595el
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Re: [Marxism] The Contrarian Coronavirus Theory That Informed the Trump Administration | The New Yorker

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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Among his many endearing characteristics, Epstein is a self-centered blowhard 
and is always right, no matter what it is. Remind you of anyone? Most of what 
he says is not to be taken seriously. As you say, Louis, Epstein is the 
paradigmatic asshole.

> On March 30, 2020 at 8:26 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
> 
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> 
> Isaac Chotiner takes down Richard Epstein, an NYU law professor who is a
> libertarian know-it-all and the biggest asshole in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-contrarian-coronavirus-theory-that-informed-the-trump-administration
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Italian & German mortality rates

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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A Chinese visitor to northern Italy noted best why the virus has spread so 
widely in Italy -- she was astounded that the Italians she saw were refusing to 
practice social distancing, even in the depths of their visitation by the 
pandemic.

> On March 20, 2020 at 8:52 AM hari kumar via Marxism 
> mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu > wrote:
> 
> 
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> *
> 
> *Chris Slee *I, in my view - right about those co-factors mentioned. (I
> have not read the Telegraph version).
> Another point is that there was a large population in the factories in
> Italy. The clothing industry has seen a major shift. Now Chinese owned
> conglomerates apparently bring to North Italy a large migrant population.
> (Sorry - it was read in a German paper on th road, and I forget source).
> So all sorts of issues on top of *population susceptibility* (age,
> co-factors smoking, air pollution). These remain the main drivers.
> 
> But other modifying factors, ones that will likely come into play will
> likely also include obesity - and other general markers of ill health. 
> ThIs
> is why the burden may be quite high in the USA (Unfortunately we can only
> wait & see).
> 
> However, there are other issues too. But in addition - the Italians were
> slow to start contact tracing & isolation. That allowed spread and
> reservoirs In some contrast to Germany.
> As far as Germany is concerned: The Robert Koch Institute that
> developed the WHO approved test - was very vigilant and active from the
> outset. It started a very clear public understanding early on. And rapid
> isolation of patients - the first from a contact with a Chinese
> businesswoman in Munich visiting a factory. They from that published an
> early paper in NEJM, showing that the transmission was by an 
> *asymptomatic*
> person. ThIs was hugely controversial then, but it is apparently true - 
> and
> an important vector.
> 
> *By the bye: *
> All bourgeois politicians are essentially cut from the same cloth. Yet 
> *there
> are* differences. (we see evident differences between communists on this
> list... I would venture to say. Why is it any different?).
> Did anyone see the broadcast of *Angela Merkel* a few days ago? [Find at
> AZD or Der Spiegel - it is not dubbed though].
> It was evidently sincere, kind and very straightforward. I have *never*
> heard a bourgeois politician with a sincerity, in an address to the 
> nation - thank: "The cashiers at supermarkets and the workers who fill the
> shelves - Thank you".
> 
> Hari Kumar
> 
> > > Message: 12
> > Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 02:08:03 +
> > From: Chris Slee  > mailto:chris_w_s...@hotmail.com >
> > To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
> > mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu >
> > Cc: John Reimann <1999wild...@gmail.com 
> > mailto:1999wild...@gmail.com >
> > Subject: Re: [Marxism]
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > 
> > sl2p216mb0490d23449b2e799bf7ddc7ec4...@sl2p216mb0490.korp216.prod.outlook.com
> >  
> > mailto:sl2p216mb0490d23449b2e799bf7ddc7ec4...@sl2p216mb0490.korp216.prod.outlook.com
> > >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> > 
> > > 
> > > An article by Sarah Newey in the Telegraph cites several factors,
> > including high rates of air pollution in northern Italy, high rates 
> > of
> > smoking, and the high proportion of old people (Italy has the 
> > second oldest
> > population in the world, and 87 percent of deaths are patients over 
> > 70
> > years old).
> > 
> > > 
> > > Staffing levels in hospitals are inadequate.
> > 
> > > 
> > > But there is also an issue in recording the cause of death. In 
> Italy all
> > who die in hospital with the virus are assumed to be dying as a 
> > result of
> > the virus, though most of them also have at least one other disease.
> > 
> > > 
> > > Chris Slee
> > 
> > From: Marxism  > mailto:marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu > on behalf of John
> > Reimann via Marxism  > mailto:marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu >
>

Re: [Marxism] Of course they wiretapped Trump & his aides

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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When has Trump ever cited the evidence for one of his claims?

Wythe


 Jeff via Marxism  wrote: 
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> 
> On 2017-03-07 14:03, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:
> > 
> > It is also the reason that Trump uses [twitter] obsessively. It allows 
> > him to
> > make these single sentence provocations
> 
> Yes, but that's sort of beside the point. Trump isn't so stupid that he 
> wouldn't cite voluminous evidence to support his assertions if it 
> existed. If he could, he would have GIVEN PROOF that 3 million illegal 
> voters for Clinton tilted the popular vote. He would have supplied 
> evidence that his inauguration turnout was bigger than Obama's. He would 
> have cited statistics showing that  street crime is at at at a high 
> point, and that immigrants from those 6 countries are responsible for 
> "terrorist attacks" in the US. I don't call these "provocations," they 
> are called lies. And so the 140 character limit of twitter HELPS his 
> presentation because if he were able to go on for another 140 characters 
> then he wouldn't have anything new to say. And the part of the 
> population who will believe whatever he claims doesn't want to know 
> anything further, or to even think about examining any evidence.
> 
> So as far as I'm concerned he's also lying when he talks about being 
> wiretapped, even if (as Joaquin believes) it's true. Because he doesn't 
> have any specific evidence for it. Nor do his diehard supporters want 
> any (and after all, this lie is more plausible than many of his other 
> unproved assertions). If he ever gets around to saying something that is 
> true, then you WILL get supporting information, but he gets more 
> political mileage from disseminating alternative facts (= lies).
> 
> - Jeff
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Democrat calls himself a Republican in response to Trump speech | New York Post

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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As a racist Governor of Alabama once said, there's not a dime's worth of 
difference between the Democrats and the Republicans.  Wythe


 Louis Proyect via Marxism  wrote: 
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> 
> 
> http://nypost.com/2017/03/01/democrat-giving-response-to-trump-speech-calls-himself-a-republican/
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Re: [Marxism] The developing mood in the US

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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What you say is certainly true here in staid Tidewater VA (centered around the 
cities of Norfolk, Virginia Beach, Hampton, and Newport News), where the 
biggest naval base in the world is located, with many old-line VA 
conservatives, many new military-supporting conservatives, and large numbers of 
active military and retired military.  More than 2500 people -- but no tv or 
print reporters -- showed up for the Womens March in Norfolk two weeks ago.  
The police used drones to monitor the unexpectedly large crowd.  There have 
been continuing anti-Trump protests in Virginia Beach, Norfolk, and other local 
sites.  More than 2000 people turned out on the last two evenings to attend 
Town Hall meetings held courageously by a local rightwing Republican 
Congressperson, Scott Taylor, whose gerrymandered district stretches from 
Yorktown in the west to Virginia Beach in the east, and most of the questions 
were opposed to him, Trump, and the Republicans in general.  Taylor was 
consistently booed lo
 udly when he gave his knee-jerk GOP positions on most things.  People were 
very angry over GOP plans to repeal Obamacare.  The other day at least 100 
people turned up in Suffolk, VA, to protest the building of a pipeline through 
scenic and historic central Virginia to deliver natural gas to waiting ships 
which will take it elsewhere for profit -- and they were not allowed to attend 
the supposedly "public comments session" except one person at a time; anger was 
palpable.  My GOP cousin and her husband are switching immediately to the 
Democrats and are going to these sorts of gatherings.  A NAACP local chapter 
meeting held the other day in the chilly sunshine outside Hampton's City Hall 
drew at least 80 folks, and all of the speakers (local and state Democratic 
officeholders) were angry at Trump and his policies; a third of the folks there 
were white and all gave great applause to the speakers.  Something is indeed 
happening.

Wythe

 John Reimann via Marxism  wrote: 
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> *
> 
> I've spent the last week or so calling round to people I know in different
> parts of the US to get a sense of what is happening where they are. Here is
> a report on some of what they've told me, in addition to some thoughts of
> my own.
> 
> https://oaklandsocialist.com/2017/02/23/the-developing-mood-in-the-us/
> 
> John Reimann
> 
> -- 
> "No one is going to give you the education you need to overthrow them."
> Asata Shakur
> Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com and //
> www.facebook.com/WorkersIntlNetwork?ref=stream
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Re: [Marxism] a query

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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Shelby Steele is (on his past record) not credible.



 Louis Proyect via Marxism  wrote: 
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> 
> On 2/6/17 7:05 PM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism wrote:
> > I am doing some work on the Aboriginal thinker Noel Pearson. He cites
> > approvingly the work of Shelby Steele.  I would be grateful for any
> > pointers to the latter - critiques especially
> >
> 
> Shelby Steele is a neocon who was much better known in the 70s.
> 
> He's with the Hoover Institute now:
> 
> http://www.hoover.org/profiles/shelby-steele
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Federal judge in Seattle puts nationwide halt to Trump’s immigration order | The Seattle Times

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My information, Louis, says that the Trump White House is NOT obeying all of 
these court orders.  Wythe


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> 
> 
> 
> http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/federal-judge-in-seattle-halts-trumps-immigration-order/
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Re: [Marxism] Mexico's humiliation

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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Which means that you and I should  be shot for treason.



 Joaquin Bustelo via Marxism  wrote: 
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> 
>  From my blog:
> 
> 
> This is the typical response of a spouse that is in an abusive marriage 
> and has so internalized the victimization that even after being slapped 
> around, they are begging the abuser to take them back. People in that 
> situation or who have survived it need all the love and respect and 
> support that can be mustered to help them escape and heal.
> 
> 
> But what a president who acts this way on behalf of their country 
> deserves is to be shot for treason.
> 
> 
> Full:
> 
> https://hatueysashes.blogspot.com/2017/01/president-pena-nieto-should-be-shot-for.html
> 
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Call to Create Jobs, or Else, Tests Trump’s Sway

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There can be no clearer statement that capitalism is about profits first and 
foremost, and public welfare and national "needs" and anything else come in a 
very distant second.  And the writer(s) do not seem to be the slightest 
self-conscious about this.  Thanks, Louis.  Wythe


 Louis Proyect via Marxism  wrote: 
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NY Times, Jan. 24 2017
Call to Create Jobs, or Else, Tests Trump’s Sway
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ and ALAN RAPPEPORT

President Trump summoned the titans of American business to the White 
House on Monday for what was billed as a “listening session,” but it was 
the new president who delivered the loudest message: Bring back domestic 
manufacturing jobs, or face punishing tariffs and other penalties.

The contrast between Mr. Trump’s talk and the actual behavior of 
corporate America, however, underscored the tectonic forces he was 
fighting in trying to put his blue-collar base back to work in a sector 
that has been shedding jobs for decades.

Many of the chief executives Mr. Trump met with have slashed domestic 
employment in recent years. What is more, their companies have 
frequently shut factories in the United States even as they have opened 
new ones overseas.

Mr. Trump said he would use tax policy, among other means, to deter 
companies from shifting work abroad. “A company that wants to fire all 
of its people in the United States and build some factory someplace 
else, then thinks that product is going to just flow across the border 
into the United States,” he said, “that’s just not going to happen.”

Union leaders also met with Mr. Trump on Monday afternoon, the same day 
that Mr. Trump withdrew the United States from the Trans-Pacific 
Partnership trade agreement. While unions often ascribe the shift of 
manufacturing jobs abroad to “corporate greed,” the migration is a 
result of a more complex corporate calculus.

Wall Street is pushing industrial companies to increase earnings at a 
double-digit rate when the American economy is growing by only 2 
percent, and the quickest way to deliver higher profits is by reducing 
labor costs, whether through automation or by moving jobs to cheaper 
locales like Mexico or China.

In some cases, Gordon Gekko-like hedge fund managers are to blame, but 
much of the time, it is the drive for bigger returns on 401(k) accounts, 
pension plans and other retirement vehicles that depend on steadily 
rising corporate profits and, in turn, a buoyant stock market.

Just as significant is the desire by multinational corporations to go 
where the growth is, and many emerging-market economies, as well as 
China, are growing at more than twice the rate of the United States.

“Global capital doesn’t have a social conscience,” said Kevin W. Sharer, 
who teaches corporate strategy at Harvard Business School and served on 
the boards of 3M, Northrop Grumman and Chevron, in addition to running 
the biotech giant Amgen. “It will go where the returns are.”

A case in point is Dow Chemical, whose chief executive, Andrew N. 
Liveris, leads a panel on manufacturing that Mr. Trump created. Mr. 
Liveris was at the White House on Monday.

At the end of 2015, Dow employed 49,500 people, about half of them in 
the United States, nearly 5,000 fewer than it did at the end of 2012. 
During the same period, the number of domestic Dow manufacturing 
locations fell to 55, from 58, but increased by five in Latin America 
and Asia.

Not that Mr. Liveris is necessarily to blame — he and the company were 
targeted in 2014 by the activist investor Daniel S. Loeb, who called for 
splitting the company in two to bolster profits and for the ousting of 
Mr. Liveris. After a multiyear battle, Mr. Loeb essentially prevailed, 
and Mr. Liveris will exit Dow after it completes a merger with DuPont 
later this year, with a breakup to follow.

Dow is hardly the only company to reduce its head count in recent years. 
International Paper, whose chief executive also attended the White House 
meeting, had its work force in the United States fall to roughly 34,000 
in 2015, about 2,000 fewer than at the end of 2010.

The final piece of the manufacturing jobs puzzle is technology, said 
Bill George, who formerly ran Medtronic, a producer of pacemakers, 
stents and other medical devices, and who now teaches at Harvard 
Business School.

Mr. George noted that Ford Mot

Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Many Arrested Inauguration Day Protesters Will Face Felony Rioting Charges, Prosecutors Say « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

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The problem is, Jeff, that the crafty capitalist legal system has gotten ahead 
of you.  It may be true that all 230 charged are not guilty of arson, but they 
can also be charged with the equally felonious conspiracy to commit arson, the 
kind of blanket charge which has imprisoned many a Leftist.  Wythe



 Jeff via Marxism  wrote: 
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> 
> On 2017-01-22 21:34, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:
> > 
> > Black bloc tactics now have very high risks for the perpetually low 
> > payoff.
> 
> I think Louis' remark introducing an article about mass arrests was 
> unfair (in that context) and wasn't very well thought-out. Although some 
> property damage took place in Washington, I doubt that the police 
> actually have evidence of such actions by most of the 230 they arrested, 
> or that anywhere near that number were directly responsible whether the 
> police had evidence on them or not. When the police arrest demonstrators 
> under any pretences, the last thing we want to do is lend credence to 
> the validity of police charges without a clear picture of what happened 
> and why. I'm sure Louis recognizes that principle and wasn't thinking 
> when he paired the above remark with an article about mass arrests.
> 
> I do think Trump's inclination to use greater police repression is a 
> great threat. But of course cases of police using repressive tactics and 
> false arrests occur frequently enough regardless of the president. After 
> all, this is usually the local police acting under orders of their local 
> department, and prosecutors who do not answer to the national president. 
> Trump will certainly shift things in the wrong direction, but there will 
> still be greater differences between localities. For instance, I don't 
> think there were arrests in San Francisco even though there was property 
> destruction.
> 
> There are lots of points that can be made about black block tactics and 
> the organization of united actions. But don't casually equate police 
> violence and mass arrests with the presence of the "black block" or 
> other identifiable groups, especially in public statements. Arrestees 
> deserve the presumption of innocence as is technically professed by the 
> law. In most cases police violence and arrests are political rather than 
> responses to any "criminal" behaviour, and we shouldn't suggest 
> otherwise. Tactics and organization of a demonstration (thus including 
> questions regarding the black block) should be dealt with during the 
> planning of the action, not after the police have issued explanations 
> for their repression. When that explanation includes property damage, it 
> could well be that only a handful were involved, or even that those 
> actions were by a single agent-provocateur which we couldn't possibly 
> prevent.
> 
> I guess one reason I reacted in this case is because I was also once 
> charged with "riot" (though not as a felony) for simply sitting in a 
> sound truck at the front of a demo (one that no one could describe as a 
> "riot"). And anyway, I think it's great that the demonstrations against 
> Trump have started out militant and loud, and with the women's march 
> drawing more to Washington than Trump's victory rally (unless you 
> believe his figures ;-)
> 
> - Jeff
> 
> > 
> > http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/01/21/many-inauguration-day-protesters-will-face-felony-rioting-charges-prosecutors-say/
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Re: [Marxism] Chelsea Manning to Be Released Early as Obama Commutes Sentence

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The clemency for Manning may hide, or incite, lethal action against Assange and 
Snowden, to say nothing of Mumia in state custody.


 Gary MacLennan via Marxism  wrote: 
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> I agree Mark.  We will take it. & I give the miserable b.d a few
> brownie points for it.  I think Assange and Snowden remain in great danger.
> 
> comradely
> 
> Gary
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Mark Lause via Marxism <
> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
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> >
> > We'll take it.
> >
> > The next job is to prepare a serious political fight to defend Snowden and
> > Assange . . . and, I mean a fight like our lives and liberties depend on it
> > . . . because, ultimately, they might.
> >
> > ML
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: The Muslim Internationalist

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Apparently no longer available at this URL.  Wythe


 Louis Proyect via Marxism  wrote: 
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> 
> A significant development.
> 
> http://www.tmimag.com/Default.aspx
> 
> 
> -- 
> Support Louis Proyect biography project
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/publish-the-biography-of-socialist-louis-proyect#/
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Re: [Marxism] Fwd: No concern for the opposition

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The real problem is that this claptrap -- the use of over-the-top language, 
racist, sexist, homophobic, and maligning -- mirrors what is going on in the 
world of "journalism."  Insults and name-calling are getting built into regular 
"political" speech and commentary.  Anger and meanness suffuse all 
characterization.  This 21-year-old Montanan believes that, in the future, ONLY 
insulting name-calling prose will even be listened to.



 Louis Proyect via Marxism  wrote: 

More than any other buzzword, the term heard most throughout the 2016 
election cycle was “political correctness.” The American public was 
obsessed with the idea of words and their connotations — what was, and 
wasn’t okay to say. Republicans and the burgeoning far-right vehemently 
opposed the notion that any words were off-limits, and gleefully 
insulted their opposition with reckless abandon.

Curiously, liberals did not fight back. Instead, a smug sense of 
detachment came over the movement’s key voices, and a new set of rules 
for how to delegitimize conservative arguments arose. We could certainly 
call them racist, homophobic and xenophobic, but attacks on their 
appearance, for instance, were uncouth. Liberals were above the right’s 
vulgarity, and they would beat them based on the tenets of decency and 
our superior morality.

full: http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=13012
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Re: [Marxism] The American Revolution placed the government at the forefront of industrializa­tion in the United States.

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While the American Revolution greatly accentuated the development of 
manufacturing in the US, this did not miraculously happen overnight, and the 
colonies in 1775 were not really a "simple agrarian society," though much of 
"America" was rural and this fact persisted until well after the Civil War.  
Mercantile capitalism was powerful and producing much wealth, including the 
solid beginnings of manufacturing, before the Revolution occurred -- which is 
in no small part why the colonists rebelled.  They wanted to control, tax, and 
benefit from their own development, and not let the cash go to the English.

The new American government under George Washington (who was developing a 
capitalist whiskey business/industry near his death) and his right-hand helper 
Alexander Hamilton certainly promoted the growth of manufacturing, and was 
almost overtly into supporting and touting capitalism -- and in 1794 belatedly 
some of America's rural dissenters against capitalism rebelled and were 
immediately smashed by an American army larger than any Washington had had 
during the Revolution.  Who led this army west from Philadelphia to the 
environs of Pittsburgh and ran roughshod over rebels who had already decided to 
quit rebelling, in what he derisively called the Whiskey Rebellion?  Col. 
Alexander Hamilton.

The musical is a whitewash of Hamilton.

Wythe



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 Before the Revolutionary War, America was the simple, agrarian society
that Thomas Jefferson so revered. It was the Revolutionary War itself that
transformed America into a manufacturing powerhouse that within a few short
decades would overtake and surpass the manufacturing prowess of Europe's
greatest countries. It was the American government itself that led this
effort, organizing and teaching the small craftsmen of the country how to
become large scale producers, and providing them with the necessary cash,
raw materials, and transportation resources. The short-term result was the
effective arming of the nation, but the long-term implica­tions involved
placing the government at the forefront of industrializa­tion in the United
States:

"When the American Revolution began, the ... colonies in rebellion were not
prepared for war and were slow to understand how to support themselves
productively. As *Amphitrite's* tale displays, it was also unlike­ly that
Americans could rely on foreign supplies. So the US government embarked on
a program to harness the resources of the nation's manu­facturing sector
and direct the production of equipment for the Continental Army. ...



*http://www.delanceyplace.com/view-archives.php?p=3208
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Re: [Marxism] No evidence that Omar Mateen was gay

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I would say that this article tends to prove the opposite of what is said in 
the subject-line above.  Wythe



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NY Times, June 26 2016
Was the Orlando Gunman Gay? The Answer Continues to Elude the F.B.I.
By FRANCES ROBLES and JULIE TURKEWITZ

A vigil for the victims of the Pulse nightclub attack was held at Lake 
Eola in Orlando last week. Credit Hilary Swift for The New York Times
ORLANDO, Fla. — After news media reports suggested that the man who 
carried out the massacre at a gay nightclub here may have himself been 
gay, the company that bills itself as “the world’s largest gay hookup 
site” put out what amounted to a distress call, asking members who may 
have been in contact with the gunman, Omar Mateen, to come forward.

In an attempt to find an account connected to the killer, the site, 
Adam4Adam combed through the profile photos of every one of its 300,000 
Florida members and researched 20 email addresses used by Mr. Mateen 
over the years that the company said had been provided by the F.B.I.

Adam4Adam came up with nothing.

“I think it was a hoax,” David Lesage, a spokesman for the 
Montreal-based company, said about the reports that Mr. Mateen had used 
Adam4Adam and other dating sites and apps for gay men.

Two weeks after Mr. Mateen barged into the Pulse nightclub on June 12 
and opened fire on the crowd, leaving 49 people dead and another 53 
wounded, investigators are still trying to determine the underlying 
motive for the slaughter. Although federal officials have said Mr. 
Mateen had become radicalized to some extent online, at least half a 
dozen men have come forward with claims that hint at another potential 
motive, reporting that they had seen Mr. Mateen at gay clubs, 
encountered him online or had romantic encounters with him.

The claims have prompted investigators to look into whether Mr. Mateen, 
who had called 911 pledging allegiance to the Islamic State, was also a 
closeted gay man consumed by feelings of self-loathing and revenge.

F.B.I. investigators, who have conducted more than 500 interviews in the 
case, are continuing to contact men who claim to have had sexual 
relations with Mr. Mateen or think they saw him at gay bars. But so far, 
they have not found any independent corroboration — through his web 
searches, emails or other electronic data — to establish that he was, in 
fact, gay, officials said.

The question of sexual orientation is a part of a broader effort by the 
F.B.I. to establish Mr. Mateen’s criminal profile. Beyond being a 
critical piece of information that could help the agency reconstruct the 
deadliest mass shooting in modern American history, it could aid in 
creating a broader analysis of criminal and terrorist behavior.

“People often act out of more than one motivation,” Attorney General 
Loretta Lynch told reporters during a visit here on Tuesday. “This was 
clearly an act of terror and an act of hate.”

One of the first people to bring up the idea that Mr. Mateen could have 
been gay was his ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, who, a day after the massacre, 
told The New York Times that her former husband often made angry 
comments about homosexuality.

“If you know anything about psychology, you know that people that have a 
really, really strong resentment or above-average hate toward something, 
it’s because deep inside that’s what they truly are,” she said in an 
interview at her home in Boulder, Colo. “In Islam, it’s true that there 
is very low tolerance for homosexuality. He may not have been able to be 
himself.”

But she added that she was speculating, and that there was nothing in 
their intimate life on which she had based that hunch.

Several men later came forward to tell other news media outlets that Mr. 
Mateen was a regular at Pulse. (Two of them, female impersonators who 
perform at the club, declined to comment for this article, though, 
saying the focus ought to be on the victims.)

Another Orlando man, a Navy veteran named Kevin West, told The Los 
Angeles Times and The Washington Post that he had communicated with Mr. 
Mateen for about a year on Jack’d, a gay chat and dating app.

Hector Camacho, the chief executive of Jack’d, said the company was 
cooperating with the F.B.I.

A company spokesman, Jeff Dorta, said several television networks that 
sought to au

Re: [Marxism] Excellent Cindy Sheehan article on Trump, Sanders, primaries

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This is nonsense.  It only appeals to those who are willing to stay in the game 
for a long time.  What arrogant liberal nonsense.


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Re: [Marxism] Hillary Battles Bernie Sanders, Chick Magnet

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With all respect, Louis, I do not think that Bernie Sanders has "a narrow 
message."  That is modern code for an emphasis on class over race, gender, age, 
etc.

Wythe


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(I'll be voting Green but I loved this op-ed piece.)

NY Times Op-Ed, Feb. 7 2016
Hillary Battles Bernie Sanders, Chick Magnet
by Maureen Dowd

MANCHESTER, N.H. — HILLARY CLINTON first grabbed the national spotlight 
47 years ago as an idealistic young feminist, chiding the paternalistic 
establishment in her Wellesley commencement speech.

So it’s passing strange to watch her here, getting rebuffed by young 
women who believe that she lacks idealism, that she overplays her 
feminist hand and that she is the paternalistic establishment.

Bernie Sanders may be a dead ringer for Larry David, but Hillary is 
running the “Curb Your Enthusiasm” campaign. She can’t fire up young 
voters by dwelling on what can’t be done in Washington and by explaining 
that she’s more prose than poetry.

She’s traveling around New Hampshire with a former president who could 
easily layer in some poetry, and a handful of specific snappy plans for 
the future, to her thicket of substance and stack of white papers. But 
somehow, Hill and Bill campaign side by side without achieving synergy.

Is it that he’s as tired as he looks or does she feel too competitive 
with him to ask for that kind of help?

As one Hillary booster in Hollywood marveled: “There’s no chance her 
husband doesn’t understand the problem. The look on his face during her 
speeches evokes a retired major league All Star watching his son strike 
out in a Little League game. This is so fixable.”

Hillary is like a veteran actor who doesn’t audition well. Bill could 
tell her not to shout her way through rallies, that it doesn’t convey 
passion but just seems forced, adding to her authenticity problem. Her 
allies think mentioning her shouting is sexist, and sexism does swirl 
around Hillary, but her campaign cries sexism too often. In 2008, Barack 
Obama used race sparingly.

Even after all this time watching Bill and Barry, she still has not 
learned the art of seduction on stage. She’s surrounded by former Obama 
and Bill Clinton strategists, but they are not helping her achieve “the 
goose bump experience,” as Lily Tomlin called it. Hillary has ceded the 
inspirational lane to the slick Marco Rubio, who’s more like the new 
John Edwards than the new Obama.

In the MSNBC debate on Thursday night, Hillary huffily said she could 
not be an exemplar of the establishment, as Sanders suggested, because 
she’s “a woman running to be the first woman president.”

But she is establishment. So is Nancy Pelosi. So was Eleanor Roosevelt. 
Hillary must learn to embrace that and make it work for her, not deny 
it. As a woman, as a former first lady, senator and secretary of state, 
she’s uniquely equipped to deliver a big, inspiring message with a 
showstopping speech that goes beyond income inequality, that sweeps up 
broader themes of intolerance, fusing the economic, cultural and 
international issues at stake.

She could, as one talented political speechwriter riffed, say something 
like this: “We’re a stronger country when more people have higher 
incomes; when women get paid the same as men; when we draw on the 
diverse talents of immigrants; when we show the world that America is a 
place that embraces all religions, that offers refuge to the persecuted 
and the terrorized. When a few old rich white men are the only ones who 
succeed, that’s not just unfair, it’s untenable.”

Hillary’s most poignant moment came during the CNN town hall on 
Wednesday night when she said that, as a young woman, she had never 
expected to run for president herself, given that her husband was “a 
natural.” It was her misfortune in 2008 to run into another natural. She 
was not “likable enough” that year.

But it was at least fathomable. She was running against the Tulip Craze 
Barack Obama. Now she’s running against a grumpy gramps, a stooped 
socialist with a narrow message, brusque manner and shaky grasp of world 
affairs. But the Clintons are still leveling the same charges, that her 
opponent’s stances are fairy tales and that his idealism masks tough 
tactics.

And she’s still not likable enough for the young women who were supposed 
to carry her fo

Re: [Marxism] What was Jesus?

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This post ignores the tremendous recent spate of scholarly historical (and even 
archaeological) research and writing about the historical Jesus, for which one 
should turn to the several books published in the last quarter century by 
American scholars and academics Bart Ehrman, John Dominic Crossan, and 
especially Richard A. Horsley, a Marxist.  They agree that Jesus was no 
Christian, nor was he divine either; they see him as a Jewish revolutionary, 
but cast in the mould of the Hebrew prophets, attempting to restore the 
primitive egalitarianism that can be read into the various covenants 
(supposedly between god and his "chosen" people, but probably worked out by the 
Hebrews themselves) which established the land of the Jews as a peasant 
agricultural state wherein each peasant family was guaranteed a workable plot 
of farmland despite, and in the teeth, of moneylenders and the wealthy Jews who 
backed the moneylenders in an increasingly unegalitarian Jewish community in 
Israel.  

Note, for example, that neither Jesus nor his father Joseph is depicted in the 
Bible as owning or farming land, nor even as being fishermen like several of 
Jesus's comrades, even though, historically speaking, the overwhelming number 
of Jewish peasants engaged in farming (and in fishing).  Joseph is said to be a 
carpenter, which was among the most lowly and looked-down-upon categories of 
landless Jews at the time, much lower than farmers, and he probably got work 
participating in the construction of new Roman cities such as Tiberias which 
went up in Israel during the years of the first two Roman emperors, Augustus 
and Tiberias.  Like many Jews who toiled away on these showy, expensive, 
nonJewish Roman towns near Galilee, they had lost their lands to debt and were 
in many senses enslaved and extremely poor; Jesus saw himself as a prophet, 
bringing back and enforcing the democratic and redistributive covenants (as 
required by the concept of jubilee) and restoring an economic basis for 
 independence for poor Jewish peasant farmers -- like his own family.  Of 
course he opposed the wealthy Jews of his time, who were economically allied 
with the conquering Romans (and had been allied with the previously conquering 
Greeks of Alexander's time).  But his goal -- as he repeatedly said -- was to 
restore the covenants.

The three historians I have cited use excellent, widely-accepted techniques of 
historical criticism, which find much that is in the New Testament to have been 
added on later by the True Believers, the followers of Jesus and others who 
wanted to claim Jesus as divine, as some part of god (unlike what Jesus 
actually said of himself).  They find much of the New Testament to be quite 
suspicious, and in varying ways they interpret many passages as not reflecting 
much of the truth of Jesus's life and prophetic career.  They discard these 
from the canon, and arrive at a very different image of Jesus than is given in 
the post below.  They are certainly worth reading, more (in my view) than the 
two authors cited in the post below.

Wythe Holt


 Philip Ferguson via Marxism  wrote: 
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> At Xmas time, an interesting piece:
> Jesus wasn't a Christian; he was a Jewish revolutionary:
> https://rdln.wordpress.com/2015/04/03/jesus-wasnt-a-christian-he-was-a-jewish-revolutionary/
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Re: [Marxism] Romania's Population the Lowest It's Been in 50 Years

[wytheholt--- via Marxism]

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Just returned from an archaeological trip to Bulgaria.  It is an incredibly 
poor nation, no small towns that are not falling to pieces, no small farmers or 
their families or farmsteads visible (all the fields were tilled by 
agribusiness, and large numbers of previously-tilled acres have been deserted 
by farmers and are returning to forest), its cities bulging with those who have 
left the countryside, and other European (and American) cities housing the 2 
million (out of a total of 9.25 million) who have moved away in the last couple 
of decades in order to find economic survival.   

Wythe

 
 Ken Hiebert via Marxism  wrote: 
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> This reminds me that I am not up to date on what is happening in Eastern 
> Europe.  I have the impression that some countries have prospered. Is there a 
> survey of this?  Is there prosperity beyond wages earned in Western Europe?
>   ken h
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/romanias-population-lowest-50-years-35693718
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