Re: [Marxism] Brexit article worth reading
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Yes of course the opposite was true. Even sillier from this bit of the article is the reference to these Libyan weapons getting to ISIS (with or without the imaginary US connivance). Because people who know stuff know there was no such thing as ISIS in 2012, in Syria, or anywhere. It was invented the following year. But of course that's only factual information, which presumably doesn't matter to certain forms of dialectics. But anyway. There are a number of stock phrases that have to be learnt by Assadists or plague-on-both-housists. One of them is this story about the Libyan weapons flow. OK, so since the bugbear is supposedly opposition to all imperialist intervention in all forms always, let's do a little test. We know some of the parties involved in the arms pipeline from post-Gaddafi Libya to the Syrian rebels in 2012: former Libyan rebels now in control of regime stocks, Qatar, MB networks, and Turkey, from where the weapons were delivered to some rebel groups. And the US, via the CIA, whose role, according to myriad sources, consisted of strangling the quantity of weapons getting through to anyone, stringently vetting which groups could get any at all, and above all ensuring that no anti-tank or anti-aircraft missiles - ie what the rebels needed - got through to anyone at all. So let's be anti-imperialists. Regardless of the motivations of those regional forces, regardless of our view on them politically, we oppose all intervention by US (and other) imperialism. So let's now remove the US/CIA from the equation. Imagine our demands that they get out of the Mideast were successful. The operation thus continued with the above participants, but without US imperialism. Good. I'm in favour of that. a. What would this withdrawal have meant in terms of the volume and quality of the weaponry delivered to the rebels? b. Given the answer to a. is obvious, are you still in favour of this US withdrawal? I am, of course. -Original Message- From: Louis Proyect via Marxism They turned over Libyan weapons to [Islamic State], al-Qaida and [Nusra Front]. In fact the opposite is true. Wall Street Journal, October 17, 2012: In July, the U.S. effectively halted the delivery of at least 18 Manpads sourced from Libya, even as the rebels pleaded for more effective antiaircraft missiles to counter regime airstrikes in Aleppo, people familiar with that delivery said. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/mkaradjis%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brexit article worth reading
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 6/25/16 9:25 PM, A.R. G via Marxism wrote: They turned over Libyan weapons to [Islamic State], al-Qaida and [Nusra Front]. In fact the opposite is true. Wall Street Journal, October 17, 2012: U.S. officials say they are most worried about Russian-designed Manpads provided to Libya making their way to Syria. The U.S. intensified efforts to track and collect man-portable missiles after the 2011 fall of the country’s longtime strongman leader, Moammar Gadhafi. To keep control of the flow of weapons to the Syrian rebels, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar formed a joint operations room early this year in a covert project U.S. officials watched from afar. The U.S. has limited its support of the rebels to communications equipment, logistics and intelligence. But U.S. officials have coordinated with the trio of countries sending arms and munitions to the rebels. The Pentagon and CIA ramped up their presence on Turkey’s southern border as the weapons began to flow to the rebels in two to three shipments every week. In July, the U.S. effectively halted the delivery of at least 18 Manpads sourced from Libya, even as the rebels pleaded for more effective antiaircraft missiles to counter regime airstrikes in Aleppo, people familiar with that delivery said. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brexit article worth reading
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * “If there is anyone who is responsible for the Brexit, it is Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama,” he said. “They destroyed Libya. They turned over Libyan weapons to [Islamic State], al-Qaida and [Nusra Front]. It was their war in Syria, where many of these weapons ended up, which created the massive exodus of refugees into Europe. This exodus exacerbated nationalism and anti-immigrant sentiment." The quote from Michael Hudson is very problematic. Even assuming his narrative about the cause of the refugee crisis were accurate, he appears to be suggesting that the mere presence of immigrants/refugees os the cause of the backlash toward them. A very bizarre attribution of causality. On Saturday, June 25, 2016, Andrew Pollack via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > This is dangerous nonsense. It's bad enough that Hudson, the main basis for > all Hedge's arguments, blames the banks and only the banks for the systemic > crisis. > But what's worse is that Hudson - quoted approvingly by Hedges - blames the > UK's immigration crisis on "Obama's wars" in Ukraine, Libya and Syria -- > once again conveniently denying agency to the masses in all three > countries. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com > -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Brexit article worth reading
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * This is dangerous nonsense. It's bad enough that Hudson, the main basis for all Hedge's arguments, blames the banks and only the banks for the systemic crisis. But what's worse is that Hudson - quoted approvingly by Hedges - blames the UK's immigration crisis on "Obama's wars" in Ukraine, Libya and Syria -- once again conveniently denying agency to the masses in all three countries. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
