[Marxism] Wallerstein: Firestorm Ahead
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/22556 The Firestorm Ahead September 10, 2009 By Immanuel Wallerstein There is a firestorm ahead in the Middle East for which neither the US government nor the US public is prepared. They seem scarcely aware how close it is on the horizon or how ferocious it will be. The US government (and therefore almost inevitably the US public) is deluding itself massively about its capacity to handle the situation in terms of its stated objectives. The storm will go from Iraq to Afghanistan to Pakistan to Israel/Palestine, and in the classic expression "it will spread like wildfire." Let us start with Iraq. The United States has signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with Iraq, which went into effect on July 1. It provided for turning over internal security to the Iraqi government and, in theory, essentially restricting US forces to their bases and to some limited role in training Iraqi troops. Some of the wording of this agreement is ambiguous. Deliberately so, since that was the only way both sides would sign it. Even the first months of operation show how poorly this agreement is operating. The Iraqi forces have been interpreting it very strictly, formally forbidding both joint patrols and also any unilateral US military actions without prior detailed clearance with the government. It has gotten to the point that Iraqi forces are stopping US forces from passing checkpoints with supplies during daytime hours. The US forces have been chafing. They have tried to interpret the clause guaranteeing them the right of self-defense far more loosely than the Iraqi forces want. They are pointing to the upturn in violence in Iraq and therefore implicitly to the incapacity of Iraqi forces to guarantee order. The general commanding the US forces, Ray Odierno, is obviously extremely unhappy and is patently scheming to find excuses to reestablish a direct US role. Recently, he met with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki of Iraq and President Masoud Barzani of the Kurdish Regional Government. Odierno sought to persuade them to permit tripartite (Iraqi/Kurdish/American) joint patrols in Mosul and other areas of northern Iraq, in order to prevent or minimize violence. They politely agreed to consider his proposal. Unfortunately for Odierno, his plan would require a formal revision of the SOFA agreement. Originally, there was supposed to be a referendum in the beginning of July on popular approval of the SOFA agreement. The United States was afraid of losing the vote, which would have meant that all US forces would have had to be out of Iraq by Dec. 31, 2010, one full year earlier than the theoretical date in the SOFA agreement. The United States thought it was very clever in persuading al-Maliki to postpone this referendum to January 2010. Now it will be held in conjunction with the national elections. In the national elections, everyone will be seeking to obtain votes. No one is going to be campaigning in favor of a "yes" vote on the referendum. Lest this be in any doubt, al-Maliki is submitting a project to the Iraqi parliament that will permit a simple majority of "no" votes to annul the agreement. There will be a majority of "no" votes. There may even be an overwhelming majority of "no" votes. Odierno should be packing his bags now. I'll bet he still has the illusion that he can avoid the onset of the firestorm. He can't. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] New Blog Entry: Ahmedabad’s Crime Branch, Den of Assassins
* I wish to remind you, dear reader, of Tehelka’s investigation into the State’s complicity in the Gujarat pogrom of 2002. Their investigation provides us with evidence that Ahmedabad’s Crime Branch has been a den of assassins under Modi. In point of fact, the Crime Branch is not only responsible for the assassinations of Ishrat Jahan, Javed Shaikh, Amjad Ali Rana, and Jisan Johar. The Crime Branch not only assassinated Sohrabuddin and his wife. The Crime Branch also supervised the pogrom The entire article is available at http://bit.ly/rbUIr. * N.B. Those comrades unfamiliar with the pogroms of 2002 in India's Gujarat state can obtain the requisite background at http://www.tehelka.com/story_main35.asp?filename=Ne031107gujrat_sec.asp Those comrades unfamiliar with the 'fake encounters' controversy are invited to read my recent blog entries. Basically, a 'fake encounter' means that the cops arbitrarily kidnap and assassinate whomever they wish, in the name of India's "War on Terror." Such episodes are typically termed "fake encounters" in India's English-language press. Several recent high-profile court cases have ruled against the Indian state in this matter. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Obama to Wilson: you were right!
After Wilson (and other Republicans) disrupted Obama's speech, the media pointed out that Wilson was wrong, that all the current proposals would let undocumented children die for lack of papers (except 676, which went unmentioned, and which covers ALL residents). Some went further and pointed out that while "illegals" could still buy coverage illegally, Obama couldn't be blamed for not proposing to enforce a ban on such purchases. But now Obama admits Wilson et al. have a point: "The health care legislation is still being developed, and many details could change, but based on the proposals so far, Mr. Obama’s overarching point is accurate: the legislation would not allow illegal immigrants to get the proposed government subsidies that would make it easier for low-income individuals and families to afford health insurance. "The White House press secretary, Robert Gibbs, said Thursday that Mr. Obama would go further, barring illegal immigrants from buying private health insurance through a proposed government-regulated marketplace, even if they could afford the coverage on their own. " http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/us/politics/11wilson.html?_r=1&hpw YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] articles from old left journal New Masses online
This is excellent. I always enjoy reading Gold, though by the mixed quality of his articles you'd be surprised that he was the talent behind /Jews Without Money/. Ron J wrote: > http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/nm/newmassesarts.html > > > > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/bhaskar.sunkara%40gmail.com > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Long posts not allowed??
Mark Lause wrote: > > Les offers a telling comment on the potential value of the list for > discussion...as opposed to the mere forwarding of electronic > "clippings." Indeed. Becauxe my vision has been ravaged with macular degeneration, in order to read posts I have to copy them to a word file, format them in clearly demarcated paragraphs, all extraneous matter removed, and set in a large font. Even after this massaging of text, I read so slowly (focus on what the letters are interferes with focus on wht the fuck is being said) that any reasonably dense text will force me to reread it several times before making sense of it. Hence I am forced radically to limit the number of posts I read each day - especially since almost the only posts I'm interested in reading are apt to be densely written. I practically stopped reading marxmail late last year when the overwhelming concern seemed to be to prove that the economy was in a bad shape and getting worse. Big fucking deal - since none of those posts ever bothered even to hint that perhaps we should ask Lenin's question (even if we didn't accept his answers, which fit 1905): WITBD. The absence of interest in this question; in fact the absence any hing that the question existed, pretty much convinced me that the list was only concerned with daily movement for its own sake (a la bernstein), with hopes for the future occasionally thrown in for decoration. (Incidentally, it has been shown over and over again for two centuries that economic misery, or almost any kind of misery, NEVER provokes resistance. And when it does, that resistance is merely of the nickel&dime variety, mainly pleading with the capitalists to toss a few more crumbs to the starving masses. Fuck That. It seems to me that the two most imporatant texts for today from "classical marxism" are the two speeches by Rosa Luxemburge at the Stuttgart Conference of the SPD. Endless bits of daily news, economic news, latest reviews of the drama staged by the rulng class for the drama-hungry masses (What is Obama up to now? Aint' he a terrible fellow.Shit), invocations to have the right feelings (since our action here would be empty) on what the Iranians are up to. That stuff probably bores even most avid raders of the Nation. WITBD!! Carrol YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Nader: Words Matter
Words Matter by Ralph Nader Written by Ralph Nader http://www.australia.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14230:words-matter-by-ralph-nader&catid=116:breaking-news&Itemid=202 Ever wonder what’s happening to words once they fall into the hands of corporate and government propagandists? Too often reporters and editors don’t wonder enough. They ditto the words even when the result is deception or doubletalk. Here are some examples. Day in and day out we read about “detainees” imprisoned for months or years by the federal government in the U.S., Guantanamo Bay, Iraq and Afghanistan. Doesn’t the media know that the correct word is “prisoners,” regardless of what Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld disseminated? The raging debate and controversy over health insurance and the $2.5 trillion spent this year on health care involves consumers and “providers.” How touching to describe sellers or vendors, often gouging, denying benefits, manipulating fine print contracts, cheating Medicare and Medicaid in the tens of billions as “providers.” I always thought “providers” were persons taking care of their families or engaging in charitable service. Somehow, the dictionary definition does not fit the frequently avaricious profiles of Aetna, United Healthcare, Pfizer and Merck. “Privatization” and the “private sector” are widespread euphemisms that the press falls for daily. Moving government owned assets or functions into corporate hands, as with Blackwater, Halliburton, and the conglomerates now controlling public highways, prisons, and drinking water systems is “corporatization,” not the soft imagery of going “private” or into the “private sector.” It is the corporate sector! “Medical malpractice reform” is another misnomer. It used to mean restricting the legal rights of wrongfully injured people by hospitals and doctors, or limiting the liability of these corporate vendors when their negligence harms innocent patients. Well, to anybody interested in straight talk, “medical malpractice reform” or the “medical malpractice crisis” should apply to bad or negligent practices by medical professionals. After all, about 100,000 people die every year from physician/hospital malpractice, according to a Harvard School of Public Health report. Hundreds of thousands are rendered sick or injured, not to mention even larger tolls from hospital-induced infections. Proposed “reforms” are sticking it to the wrong people—the patients—not the sellers. “Free trade” is a widely used euphemism. It is corporate managed trade as evidenced in hundreds of pages of rules favoring corporations in NAFTA and the World Trade Organization. “Free trade” lowers barriers between countries so that cartels, unjustified patent monopolies, counterfeiting, contraband, and other harmful practices and products can move around the world unhindered. What is remarkable about the constant use of these words is that they permeate the language even if those who stand against the policies of those who first coin these euphemisms. You’ll read about “detainees” and “providers” and “privatization” and “private sector” and “free trade” in the pages of the Nation and Progressive magazines, at progressive conferences with progressive leaders, and during media interviews. After people point out these boomeranging words to them, still nothing changes. Their habit is chronic. A lot of who we are, of what we do and think is expressed through the language we choose. The word tends to become the thing in our mind as Stuart Chase pointed out seventy years ago in his classic work The Tyranny of Words. Let us stop disrespecting the dictionary! Let’s stop succumbing to the propagandists and the public relations tricksters! Frank Luntz—the word wizard for the Republicans who invented the term “death tax” to replace “estate tax” is so contemptuous of the Democratic Party’s verbal ineptitude (such as using “public option” instead of “public choice” and regularly using the above-noted misnomers) that he dares them by offering free advice to the Democrats. He suggests they could counteract his “death tax” with their own term “the billionaires’ tax.” There were no Democratic takers. Remember, words matter. Using words that are accurate and at face value is one of the characteristics of a good book. Three new books stand out for their straight talk. In Grand Illusion: The Myth of Voter Choice in a Two-party Tyranny, Theresa Amato, my former campaign manager, exposes the obstructions that deny voter choice by the two major parties for third party and independent candidates. Just out is Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle by Pulitzer Prize winner, Chris Hedges. Lastly, the boisterous, mischievous short autobiography of that free spirit, Jerry Lee Wilson, The Soloflex Story: An American Parable. Not withstanding their different styles, these authors exercise semantic discipline. YOU MUST clip al
[Marxism] "Crude" director responds to Chevron
In the September 9 Reuters news story “Is Chevron Scared of ‘Crude’ The Movie?” (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/09/09/business/business-uk-chevron-ecuador-crude.html?_r=1), Chevron spokesperson Kent Robertson criticizes the award-winning new film Crude on the day of its theatrical premiere, calling it “long on emotion and short on facts.” Crude director Joe Berlinger responds to the allegations: “I find Kent Robertson’s comments about Crude to be extremely troubling, given the fact that he has yet to see the film. I have made multiple offers to screen the film for Mr. Robertson and his colleagues at Chevron, and my offers have been declined. Just last week, he told me that the company sees ‘no meaningful value’ in having a private screening, but they would ‘simply wait until the film hits [their] local theatres.’ Since Crude opened in New York on the same day the California-based Mr. Robertson made his comments to Reuters, I would be surprised if he has seen it, which makes me wonder why he is attacking the film.” “The comment that Crude is ‘short on facts’ is outlandish. The film goes to great lengths to give as much attention to the positions of each of the opposing parties in this landmark case as is possible in a feature length documentary. Stephen Holden of the New York Times – among other prominent critics – specifically cited this quality, saying, ‘rarely have such conflicts been examined with the depth and power of Crude.’ Perhaps the ‘facts’ that Mr. Robertson is referring to are not the talking points that his company has been working so hard to inject into the news cycle in the days leading up to Crude’s release.” “While Crude attempts to present both sides of the legal case, it concerns me that Mr. Robertson continues to criticize the film’s presentation of the story by obfuscating the accusations against his company. Mr. Robertson told Reuters, ‘If you're seeing fresh oil today ... how can that be the responsibility of a company that stopped operating in 1990?’ The systems and infrastructure that the plaintiffs say dumped billions of gallons of oil and toxic waste products into the Amazon rainforest in Ecuador were designed, built and operated for decades solely by Texaco (which merged with Chevron in 2001), according to the suit. Although the operation was later taken over by PetroEcuador, it is the theory of the plaintiffs’ case that Chevron is responsible not only for the past pollution, but the current pollution as well, because they turned over a faulty system to the current operator. To ignore this would be to miss a key point in the story examined in Crude. While Mr. Robertson is not an attorney, he is surely aware of this major detail in the case against the company, which has now been going on for sixteen years.” An e-mail from Mr. Berlinger to Mr. Robertson asking him to clarify his comments regarding the film’s omissions has gone unanswered. Crude is now playing in New York at the IFC Center. The film opens in Los Angeles on September 18, and expands nationwide throughout the fall. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] articles from old left journal New Masses online
On the MIA there also some of the early The Liberator here: http://marx.org/history/usa/culture/pubs/liberator/index.htm but a full index of it 1918 - 1927 when the The New Masses took over and carried the torch, so to speak. A full list of publications on the MIA is here: marxists.org/glossary/periodicals/archive/index.htm David YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Frank Furedi: risk aversion undercuts war effort in Aghanistan
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7349/ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Frank Furedi: risk aversion undercuts war effort in Aghanistan
Say, isn't this the same Frank Furedi who once led the British RCP, wrote many an article in Living Marxism (later rechristened LM when the term 'Marxism' seemed to these ex-Trots to be archaic), and was put 'out of business' by a lawsuit? --- On Fri, 9/11/09, Louis Proyect wrote: From: Louis Proyect Subject: [Marxism] Frank Furedi: risk aversion undercuts war effort in Aghanistan To: "Steve Olson" Date: Friday, September 11, 2009, 3:23 PM http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7349/ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/noarch99%40yahoo.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Frank Furedi: risk aversion undercuts war effort in Aghanistan
Steve Olson wrote: > Say, isn't this the same Frank Furedi who once led the British RCP, wrote > many an article in Living Marxism (later rechristened LM when the term > 'Marxism' seemed to these ex-Trots to be archaic), and was put 'out of > business' by a lawsuit? > Yup. YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Frank Furedi: risk aversion undercuts war effort in Aghanistan
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Louis Proyect wrote: > http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7349/ > He has obviously been reading Martin Shaw's '*The New Western Way of War*', which concerns precisely the risk-averse strategy of Western states in war. Shaw - as an ex-IS man (IS was, for the uninitiated, a precursor to the SWP UK) - must feel vaguely insulted to be used as contrarian lube by the doyen of the RCP. Richard Seymour Writer and blogger Email: leninstombb...@googlemail.com Website: http://www.leninology.blogspot.com Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/leninology Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Seymour_(writer) Book: http://www.versobooks.com/books/nopqrs/s-titles/seymour_r_the_liberal_defense_of_murder.shtml YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Frank Furedi: risk aversion undercuts war effort in Aghanistan
On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 18:46 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote: > Steve Olson wrote: > Say, isn't this the same Frank Furedi who once led > the British RCP, wrote many an article in Living Marxism (later > rechristened LM when the term 'Marxism' seemed to these ex-Trots to be > archaic), and was put 'out of business' by a lawsuit? > > > Yup. To give credit where it's due though, the lawsuit was over the RCP's running of a story that was part of their correct position of opposing Serbophobia. Cheers, John YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] finding a literary agent
I've written a satirical novel and would like to find an agent to market it for me. I was wondering if anyone on the list knows a good agent or how to find a good one. If anyone can assist me, please contact me offlist at snedek...@verizon.net I will paste a draft of a synopsis of my book in the form of a letter below if you have a minute to take a look at it. I think the satire is funny, but selling a political satire might be a difficult task! The College Essays of Jenny Delight is a satirical novel set at a fictional college campus. The first part of the novel, which is the first two thirds of the manuscript, consists in short comic episodes written by Jenny Delight, a student at the SUNY/College at Old Windsor. This part of the novel ends when the main character, Jenny's sociology professor, is killed by an emotionally disturbed student. The Professor's murder takes place in the middle of a Student Life Committee meeting while the shortage of counselors in the college's Counseling Center is being debated. The second part of the novel, which is the last third of the manuscript, consists of four documents: the final six email messages sent by, Fred Snyder, The Sociology professor, on the day he was murdered, a web memorial for Snyder, a report he wrote on the work of the Student Life Committee and a memoir of his childhood in rural New Jersey. The novel concludes with an After word by the Chair of the Sociology Department. The two parts of the novel are united by the life and death of Fred Snyder, the lives of several of Jenny's friends and family members and Jill, the Old Windsor Librarian. The action of the novel takes place at the college. The day to day life of the college is the primary object of the satire with Jenny's family being the secondary object. George Snedeker YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
Dear comrades: I have a question that hopefully those comrades who are more internet savvy than I might answer. I recently posted a blog entry entitled "Indian's Favourite Fascist, Again." That blog entry has been exceptionally popular in the sense that it has got almost 200 reads, by far the most I have got of any piece to date. But I noticed something peculiar about the pattern of hits. There is an IP address that hits the blog exactly every 30 mins, at the top of each hour, and at 30 mins. past the hour. I cannot determine the originating IP address, except that it is from within the U.S. perhaps. I also know that this has been going on for about 24 hours. This strikes me as rather strange and I have no hypothesis that can account for my observation. Does something have ideas about what might be the source, and why this is happening? Thanks. -- "In the tender annals of Political Economy, the idyllic reigns from time immemorial ... the present year of course always excepted." -- A German refugee, circa 1867 -- http://epoliticus.wordpress.com/ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
On my way out sorry for the brevity, but it might be simply a bot. Send me an email with the IP and I'll give it a lookup for you. Politicus E. wrote: > Dear comrades: > > I have a question that hopefully those comrades who are more internet > savvy than I might answer. > > I recently posted a blog entry entitled "Indian's Favourite Fascist, > Again." That blog entry has been exceptionally popular in the sense > that it has got almost 200 reads, by far the most I have got of any > piece to date. > > But I noticed something peculiar about the pattern of hits. There is > an IP address that hits the blog exactly every 30 mins, at the top of > each hour, and at 30 mins. past the hour. I cannot determine the > originating IP address, except that it is from within the U.S. > perhaps. I also know that this has been going on for about 24 hours. > This strikes me as rather strange and I have no hypothesis that can > account for my observation. > > Does something have ideas about what might be the source, and why this > is happening? > > Thanks. > > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
Politicus E. wrote: > There is > an IP address that hits the blog exactly every 30 mins, at the top of > each hour, and at 30 mins. past the hour. send me the address i will do a lookup for you. Les YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens.
I am in search of examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens. So far I have these: The Ludlow massacre Matewan (and its subsequent Battle for Blair Mountain) Sand Creek Wounded Knee I and II The Bonus Marchers (post WWI in DC) Kent State WTO Seattle But would be grateful for any further examples or further explanations of the above not in the mainstream. Not being a US resident I am out of the loop somewhat. Many thanks, Magda YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens.
The first airforce bombing is said to have occured in W. Va. by Jimmy Doolittle when the miners were striking. On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:24:50AM +1000, oscardelabosca thecatholiccat wrote: > I am in search of examples of the use of force by American forces against > its citizens. > So far I have these: > The Ludlow massacre > Matewan (and its subsequent Battle for Blair Mountain) > Sand Creek > Wounded Knee I and II > The Bonus Marchers (post WWI in DC) > Kent State > WTO Seattle > > But would be grateful for any further examples or further explanations of > the above not in the mainstream. Not being a US resident I am out of the > loop somewhat. > Many thanks, > Magda > > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/michael%40ecst.csuchico.edu -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu michaelperelman.wordpress.com YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
Les & Bhaskar: Thanks for helping me. Part of the problem is that I cannot determine the IP address. The only reason I detected this suspicious activity is because of a minor discrepancy in the number of visits logged by Sitemeter versus the bit.ly link, which I had used to circulate my blog entry. It is via bit.ly that I was able to determine the peculiar periodicity of the hits. Having said that, I can see that there have been a few visits from the address "in-addr.arpa." This is not a domain name that I have ever seen before. Thanks again. epoliticus YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens.
If you're going to bring up Kent State, you should also include Jackson State. A similar massacre but of African-American students occurred at Jackson State University at roughly the same time as that of Kent State. Cherie -Original Message- >From: oscardelabosca thecatholiccat >Sent: Sep 11, 2009 9:24 PM >To: lasai...@earthlink.net >Subject: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against >its citizens. > >I am in search of examples of the use of force by American forces against >its citizens. >So far I have these: >The Ludlow massacre >Matewan (and its subsequent Battle for Blair Mountain) >Sand Creek >Wounded Knee I and II >The Bonus Marchers (post WWI in DC) >Kent State >WTO Seattle > >But would be grateful for any further examples or further explanations of >the above not in the mainstream. Not being a US resident I am out of the >loop somewhat. >Many thanks, >Magda YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Query regarding suspicious activity on my blog
re/ in-addr.arpa see: http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/Course/Section2/15.htm send your logs offlist and i will take a look, gotta run ... Les YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens.
Jeez, when have they not Almost every act of violence against native peoples included violence against some U.S. citizens who were living among them. But, I mean, if we see the state as a mechanism for the repression of the society in general in the interests of a ruling class, this question is sort of like asking when the refrigerator behaves in a cold way... ML YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Hate crimes, again
On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 16:27 +0200, Jeff wrote: > At 17:48 11/09/09 +1200, John wrote: > >The article David posted is odious > > >. But the issue of hate crimes is a separate one. > And not a terribly important one, in my opinion. What is important is that > racists oppose it because it is a statement against racism (perhaps not the > best one, but it is). So I oppose racists trying to regain "rights" that > they have lost because those were not democratic rights but the "right" to > be racist with impunity. It aids the enemy when someone on our side > actively joins that campaign (as Thorstad does, I'm not talking about you > or the others). I guess for me, and I don't live in the States so can't comment on the situation there, the problem with things like a category called "hate crimes" is that they hand to the state a whole layer of extra authority to incarcerate people. Hate crime legislation is not really about addressing discrimination, it's about upping the ante, increasing prison terms when we should be reducing them. There's a parallel in New Zealand a few years ago where, in an environment of a push for longer sentences (a referendum came in with over 80% in favour of longer sentences IIRC), there were a couple of pretty horrific crimes when people broke into a house, held the occupants hostage, drove the people's car to the ATM after extracting the PIP number from the victims etc. The government's reaction was to implement a new category of crime known as home invasion, with, guess what? Much longer sentences. [snip] > >. as someone just said, before adding that > >they're fine for people who we don't agree with. > No, I didn't say anything about it being a matter of whether I/we agree > with them. Please don't misrepresent my words! My humblest apologies for what was, in retrospect, a pretty crude misrepresentation of what you said. > I was saying that I have no > reason to oppose the principle of racism/sexism/homophobia being considered > as an aggravating factor in determine someone's punishment. So after > reducing sentences to 1/3 of their current levels (as I had advocated) a > judge might have the power to punish a racist crime with an increased > sentence, perhaps a triple sentence. But it wasn't my intention to mix up > these issues. I guess I see that as a can of worms that would just see endless appeals and further enrichment of law firms . . . > >What if, in a period of heightened class struggle, a Marxist killed > >his/her boss. Could that be called a hate crime? > NO, because in the US at least, the term "hate crime" refers to crimes > motivated by racism and in some states sexism or homophobia. That is just a > legal DEFINITION and obviously if you change a definition then statements > that someone previously made using that WORD no longer represent their > opinion. So this is not a valid objection. I can't help that they used the > term "hate crime" which might be considered a misnomer, but I am concerned > with RACIST crime, which is what we're discussing. Actually racist crime was not the original focus, it was homophobic crime. As I said, in New Zealand a defence of provocation was often used in the killing of gay men, and the campaign to repeal that clause only gained traction in Parliament when a pretty young heterosexual woman was killed by her partner. Do I think that was right? No. It should have been repealed years ago as it was a cop out for homophobic attacks. But neither do I think the guy who killed a gay man should get a longer sentence than the guy who killed his girlfriend simply on the basis of his backward social beliefs. I will concede here though that homophobia and homophobic violence is much less prevalent in NZ than in the USA. We do tend to look at the States and ask ourselves how the most advanced capitalist country in the world can harbour such reactionary attitudes. People prefix bizarre stories with "only in America". > >All such legislation does, whether it's hate speech legislation or hate > >crimes sentencing, is to silence people and drive ideas underground. > (We'll talk about "hate speech" later). What did you just say? That > punishing racist assault or murder is driving their IDEAS underground? How > could that be unless the "idea" you're talking about is publicly advocating > racist violence. No, unfortunately racists will still have their ideas, but > might be less likely to ACT on them, which would be GOOD! No, I'm saying in the case of hate speech laws, they'll keep thinking as they do but it will be harder to confront those ideas when they're entirely underground. In cases of hate crime laws, they'll simply try to deny a "hate" element. Neither really moves us forward I don't think. > > Getting rid of that defence seems > >entirely appropriate, but pushing for a special thing called a hate > >crime, with longer sentences > In the first place, I am not "pushing" for it: it already exists in most US > states and I don'
Re: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens.
This may not be a favorite example for leftists, but there was the attack on the Branch Davidian religious cult in Waco Texas. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:56 PM, La Sainte wrote: > If you're going to bring up Kent State, you should also include Jackson > State. A similar massacre but of African-American students occurred at > Jackson State University at roughly the same time as that of Kent State. > > Cherie > > > -Original Message- >>From: oscardelabosca thecatholiccat >>Sent: Sep 11, 2009 9:24 PM >>To: lasai...@earthlink.net >>Subject: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against >> its citizens. >> >>I am in search of examples of the use of force by American forces against >>its citizens. >>So far I have these: >>The Ludlow massacre >>Matewan (and its subsequent Battle for Blair Mountain) >>Sand Creek >>Wounded Knee I and II >>The Bonus Marchers (post WWI in DC) >>Kent State >>WTO Seattle >> >>But would be grateful for any further examples or further explanations of >>the above not in the mainstream. Not being a US resident I am out of the >>loop somewhat. >>Many thanks, >>Magda > > > > YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/leftwingwacko%40gmail.com > -- http://left-wingwacko.blogspot.com/ YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Examples of the use of force by American forces against its citizens.
2009/9/11 Mark Lause : > Jeez, when have they not > > Almost every act of violence against native peoples included violence > against some U.S. citizens who were living among them. But, I mean, > if we see the state as a mechanism for the repression of the society > in general in the interests of a ruling class, this question is sort > of like asking when the refrigerator behaves in a cold way... > > ML > You are certainly right. But I am afraid that the "catholic cat" (!) is asking about precise and specific moments of open class warfare, as his list of crimes shows. However, I would make a comment to that list: though it is now usual in the US official ideology to equate "first nation" warriors with "white settler" warriors, as if all of them had been equally American citizens, the truth is, as Mark Lause clearly states above, that crimes against the sioux, seminole, apache, whatever, were not considered part of a civil war. The original peoples of what today is US of America were NOT considered US citizens. Correct me if I am wrong, please. -- Néstor Gorojovsky El texto principal de este correo puede no ser de mi autoría YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
