Re: [Marxism] Why can't Marxmail use sensible subject headings?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == mkarad...@theplanet.net.au wrote: > I've never understtod the aversion nearly all subscribers have about > simply changing a silly subject heading when something completely > different is being discussed there. Perhaps there is some reason other > than inertia, and someone can enlighten me. If someone does change the subject line, please include the the old subject at the end for people like me who read Marxmail irregularly and follow threads by filtering messages by subject name. For example: *** New-Subject (was "Old-Subject") *** Once the subject change is established, the old subject can be removed from future posts. Just a suggestion, of course. I don't make the rules around here. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Why can't Marxmail use sensible subject headings?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Actually, Michael, the messages dealing with the healthcare bill were not under the "dismissal" heading-- but were under the Communist Party Backs Senate...etc. heading. Arguments about the "strategy" of the CP were under the CP is Still Ga-Ga heading. The "liberal dismissal" heading was introduced by Dogan when he received an offlist message from somebody he thought was a member of the list. - Original Message - From: Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Holocaust survivor, 85, begins hunger strike to open Gaza borders
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, December 28, 2009 Contact: Hedy Epstein h...@hedyepstein.com 85 year old Holocaust Survivor Hedy Epstein Begins Hunger Strike to Open Gaza Borders Hedy Epstein, the 85 year old Holocaust survivor and peace activist, announced that she will begin a hunger strike today as a response to the Egyptian government's refusal to allow the Gaza Freedom March participants into Gaza. Ms. Epstein was part of a delegation with participants from 43 countries that were to join Palestinians in a non-violent march from Northern Gaza towards the Erez border with Israel calling for the end of the illegal siege. Egypt is preventing the marchers from leaving Cairo, forcing them to search for alternative ways to make their voices heard. Ms. Epstein will remain outside the UN building at the World Trade Center (Cairo) - 1191 Cornish al-Nil, throughout today, accompanied by other hunger strikers. "It is important to let the besieged Gazan people know they are not alone. I want to tell the people I meet in Gaza that I am a representative of many people in my city and in other places in the US who are outraged at what the US, Israeli and European governments are doing to the Palestinians and that our numbers are growing," Epstein said. In 1939, when Epstein was just 14, her parents found a way for her to escape the persecution, sending her on the Kindertransport to England. Epstein never saw her parents again; they perished in Auschwitz in 1942. After World War II, Epstein worked as a research analyst at the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi doctors who performed medical experiments on concentration camp inmates. After moving to the US, Epstein became an activist for peace and social justice causes. Unlike most Holocaust survivors, one of the causes she has taken up is that of the Palestinian people. She has traveled to the West Bank, collected material aid and now she hopes to enter Gaza. For more information contact: Ann Wright, Egypt (19) 508-1493 Ziyaad Lunat, Egypt +20 191181340 Medea Benjamin, Egypt +20 18 956 1919 Ehab Lotayef, Egypt +20 17 638 To reply to this message, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox%2Freadmessage.php&t=249108702068&mid=1a2a49 aG53b91c1dG13ac92eG0&bcode=FA02S Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The fight for Gaza in Cairo -- urgent message3
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Subject: latest report from Cairo distribute widely* urgent* by Wendy Goldsmith As Gaza Freedom Marchers continue to push the Egyptian Government to allow us to leave Cairo for El Arish, they are beginning to push back. This morning at 7am Freedom Marchers met at the garage where we were expecting to board buses headed to El Arish. Instead we were met by a large group of soldiers who turned every bus and taxi away. Until we reached a large crowd, the authorities were forceful, pushing peaceful demonstrators and trying to prevent the filming of the situation. Some of the Freedom Marchers then went to the French Embassy to offer to support to the 300 French delegates who had camped out at the embassy overnight following a dramatic die-in on the road that stopped traffic and lasted several hours. Ten Canadians entered the barricaded area where spirits were high but were told that if we entered we would not be permitted to leave. However, after approximately one hour the Canadian delegates were allowed out. The French delegates were awaiting an announcement from the Embassy which was to be delivered sometime this morning. Next, the decision was made to march to the UN World Trade Center Cairo to request assistance from the UN to plead our case to Egyptian Authorities. At noon, approximately 900 delegates gathered in song, dance and silent vigil. Holocaust survivor, 85 year old Hettie Epstein announced that she would begin a hunger strike as she sat among school supplies designated for children in Gaza. Five Canadians have agreed to join her and other internationals will undoubtedly come forward. The UN Square was quickly surrounded by police, and later by physical barricades as we continued to sing and dance to songs of peace. As security around us tightened, an American woman at the front of the barricade was assaulted by a police officer. She was punched in the face. This young woman was able to leave the barricaded area and indicated that she will go to the US embassy to ask for assistance. In addition, we received news that at the French Embassy a Canadian Citizen with dual UK citizenship had been detained by riot police and was being threatened with either detention for a minimum of five days or deportation immediately to the airport. Naomi Katharine Riches is trying to organize support in order to reduce the risk of the use of excessive force. The Canadian Embassy is now closed in Cairo. Local and international press are being turned away and refused entry into the barricaded area. Several Delegates have entered into discussions with representatives and will ask for UN assistance in negotiating with the Egyptian Government to allow us to proceed to the Rafah Border. Failing that, we will request that a smaller delegation of representatives from each country be allowed to pass to deliver the humanitarian items that have arrived from around the world. Finally, if the Egyptian Authorities will not agree to this we are asking that the UN assist in facilitating the transportation of the humanitarian aid without any delegates. Delegates have determined that they will hold the space at the UN World Trade Center for as long as possible, continuing to engage in non-violent acts of peace. To reply to this message, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox%2Freadmessage.php&t=1254865368153&mid=1a2c8 bcG53b91c1dG13aeb09G0&bcode=FA02S Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Chavez Says Colombia May Attack ‘Fak e’ Guerrilla Base
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=adNsILAw6xdo# Chavez Says Colombia May Attack ‘Fake’ Guerrilla Base (Update1) By Steven Bodzin Dec. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Colombia is preparing to attack Venezuela in an operation that will be made to look like its objective is a base of Colombian guerrillas, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said “They say, and many people believe, there are guerrilla bases in our territory supported by the government,” Chavez said, in a speech to troops today that was shown on state television. “They are preparing the terrain to attack Venezuelan territory, simulating an encampment.” Chavez said Colombia’s military would justify the attack with lies, making reference to a scandal in the neighboring country that came to be known as the “false positives.” Colombia fired at least 27 officers and soldiers a year ago for allegedly killing poor slum-dwellers and dressing them as guerrillas in an attempt to win benefits from the government, prosecutors alleged. Speaking at Fort Mara in Zulia state, which he said was on “the front line of this battle,” Chavez said “it wouldn’t be strange” for the Colombian military to build some shacks in an improvised camp and put some rifles and propaganda in it. “And there it is, an encampment in Venezuela,” he said. “Our government doesn’t support or permit, and won’t support or permit, the presence of any armed forces in our territory except our glorious Bolivarian Armed Forces,” Chavez said. A spokesman at Colombia’s Foreign Ministry declined to comment. Calls to the Colombian embassy in Caracas today went unanswered. To contact the reporter on this story: Steven Bodzin in Caracas at sbod...@bloomberg.net Last Updated: December 28, 2009 13:29 EST Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Why can't Marxmail use sensible subject headings?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == > == > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > == > > Greg wrote: > Perhaps Lara could add Mayor Bloomberg to her "to do" list: > > "They are not talking about reducing costs," he added. "They're > talking about changing the first derivate, slowing the growth down. > And when you look at where the cost savings are going to be, well, > they're going to cut something out of Medicare and Medicaid. Now > anybody that runs for office will tell you, you don't do that. I mean, > the bottom line is it's so politically explosive, it really would be a > first time in the history of the world that they ever cut anything > [from those programs]." > etc etc. Now if anyone who was interested in the important debate about health care "reform" saw the absurd subject heading about dismissing some "liberal" with his name plastered over 25 messages, does anyone think they would click on that message? I've never understtod the aversion nearly all subscribers have about simply changing a silly subject heading when something completely different is being discussed there. Perhaps there is some reason other than inertia, and someone can enlighten me. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] India: On Telangana Movement
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Comrades, Kindly find the new write up on the ongoing agitation in Telangana in India, for separate statehood. Below is the link: http://new-wave-nw.blogspot.com/2009/12/india-agitation-for-separate-state-of.html -- New Wave new-wave-nw.blogspot.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Danger of Overcapacity
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Overproduction is always the overproduction of capital... at least so said Marx in Vol 3 of Capital. Maintaining a depressed currency can certainly increasing export market share. The tactic is called "beggaring thy neighbor," something the US raised to a new level in the 2003-2007 period [having raised it to the old level in the 80s against the Japanese yen]. But when those markets have contracted, then a greater share of a smaller market does not guarantee larger returns than having a smaller but growing share of an expanding market. "Thrift and hard work"? Welcome home Max Weber. Who knew the Chinese had adopted the Protestant ethic? Thrift and hardwork have absolutely nothing to do with it. Cheap labor and $750 billion in FDI are the virtues that produced this reward. Those working the hardest have received far less than those who have appropriate their labor. And as for thrift? Those practicing thrift are actually the rural population where there has been little to spend the annual average income of $800, and families have accumulated reserves to handle medical emergencies since access to govt. medical care has become a bit undone, to put it mildly, over the last couple of decades. If stimulus could be applied to match supply with demand? What is this? Are we channelling the spirit of Keynes here? Matching supply and demand, or not, has nothing to do with overcapacity. Massive amounts of money could be created without stimulating inflation? Actually, sounds more like Greenspan than Keynes. But the clincher is the misanthropic closer: "For those who advocate stewardship of natural resources overcapacity is not nearly as bad as overdemand." Right, the massive overcapacity generated in China has less impact on natural resources than the demand the Chinese are attempting to stimulate. Sure. And all that investment in steel, in aluminum, all those plants are just going to run without making any demands on natural resources. Sure, the real problem is too many people, right Barry? - Original Message - From: "Barry Brooks" Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:32 PM Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A Catholic version of Bob Jones University?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This was an extremely interesting read for me coming at a time when I am working my way through Edmund Campion's book Ted Kennedy: Priest of Redfern. I was also interested in Lou's other post linking to a very orthodox materialist analysis of the origins of the Christian religion. I have to confess that I found the orthodox piece uninteresting. It was too much t like the night where all cows are black. It had no feeling for contradictions or nuances i.e. the dialectics of religious practice and belief. What Yates's article does bring to mind though is the fact of the eclipse of progressive Catholicism in the USA. Campion's book is both a personal history of Ted Kennedy and also a record of progressive Australian Catholicism - especially that wing of it influenced by Dorothy Day. So it too is a record of defeat - a lament for the Church that might have been. What we are left with now in Australia would seem to be the most orthodox and reactionary of religions, where the head Honcho Cardinal Pell was, it is rumoured, the point man for Ratzinger in his bid for the papacy. And index of the ascendancy and ruthlessness of the present leadership of Australian Catholicism was provided when the radical priest, Peter Kennedy, here in Brisbane was driven out of his church, St Mary's, by the now dominant Right. I was also interested in how Ted Kennedy in Redfern had put Aborigines at the centre of his ministry. That led him to support self-determination, land rights and social justice for Aborigines. These concepts have now also become the target of the Old Right and the New Right, that has emerged around the Aboriginal intellectuals Noel Pearson and Marcia Langton. What has emerged of late is the new orthodoxy, especially in the Murdoch Press, that to be in favour of self-determination, Land Rights and social justice is to connive at the abuse of children in Aboriginal communitieses. I am trying with some Aboriginal friends to take on that new Orthodoxy but it is a daunting task. Still in the midst of this present carnival of reaction here in Australia it is worth endeavouring to remember times when progressive ideas were not so marginal. regards Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Reminder
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You once instructed me on how to "clip extraneous material." Can't remember how and nothing on "Help" on AOL tells me how to do it. Just deleting doesn't seem to help because the whold message to be replied to disappears and there is no one to address it to. Could you send me your missive again? -Original Message- From: Louis Proyect To: Wayne M. Collins Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 9:14 am Subject: [Marxism] Reminder == ule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. = his thread involving Dogan and the CPUSA has gone on far too long and s rapidly degenerating. So let's drop it before I have to take sterner measures. end list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu et your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/shacht%40aol.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Forwarded from Anthony Brain
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Limitations on any potential Obama adventure due to International and American balance of class forces! American Imperialism is working to undermine the Iranian Bourgeoisie's influence within the Middle East. This is why the Yemini government armd forces; the Saudi Air Force; and American air forces are carrying out airstrikes on various rebels in northern and eastern Yemen. That is very dangerous because the Iranian Bourgeoisie has strategic interests in these parts of Yemen which they warned Saudi Arabia not to undermine when they initiated airstrikes two or three months ago. In the last fortnight the Houti rebels in northern Yemen have claimed that American bombers bombed 25 targets (sorties) in a few hours of air strikes. US's Imperialisms' strategic objectives is to dominate the Middle East and the Horn of Africa. There are vital natural resources which they want increased ownership of. As I noted nearly a year ago in polemicising against those on the left who broke principles of class independence from Bourgeois politicians by advocating a vote for Obama that due to the worse crisis of American Capitalism/Imperialism it could not be ruled out further military adventures. A qualifcation which I stated then limiting their ability to do this is that the Neo-Cons had done so much damage to Capitalism that it played into the hands of a rising world revolution and rapid radicalisation within the Imperialist countries. It will take time for Liberal Bourgeois elements in America to reverse this damage. The dialetics of history with abrupt changes in history surprises even farseeing Marxists. It is absolutely increditable that with the extreme racism of American Capitalism that a radicalisation the biggest since the Roosevelt era would throw up a Afro American Bourgeois Populist to contain it. Astute Liberal Bourgeois strategists used Roosevelt and Obama to contain two major radicalisation within the confines of Bourgeois politics. One major difference between these Liberal Bourgeois Populists is that American Imperialism is at a different stage of development. Roosevelt represented the rise of American Imperialism as a major power despite the threat of Socialist revolution due to the hardships of 1930s depression. By salvaging American Capitalism until World War 2 he helped them to develop as a citidal of world Capitalism. This laid the basis for the 1948-1973 boom which enabled American Capitalism to buy off large numbers of American workers off. Obama represents the decline of American Imperialism as Capitalism begins to enter its worse crisis. The decline of American Imperialism started with losing a war in Vietnam. American Imperialism failed to restore Capitalism in Russia with Yeltsin losing out in 2000. Trotsky's analysis of how unstable the Russian Bureaucracy is as a caste can be seen by changes in personell at the top even now. Putin and Medivev represents different Bureaucratic factions. One thing is sure the Bureaucrats opposed to Capitalist restoration will not tolerate from Medivev what they out of weakness accepted from Yeltsin. The failure to restore Capitalism in Russia was decisive in influncing Eastern Europe. If Russia had gone Capitalist, it would probally led to a similar development very quickly in those countries as well. Compounding that defeat American Imperialism was losing two major wars under Bush and a depression began a year or 18 months before Obama came to power. Losing these two wars; the beginning of a depression; and the human right abuses which exposed American Imperialism for what it was really like caused one of the biggest radicalisations in American history. One major domestic refom Obama has conceded to mass pressures is the beginning of a very limited health service. There are paraells with this and the 1906 reforms forced out of a Liberal party government when they won a landslide general election victory. Both Trotsky and a Tory Prime Minister Arthur Balfour agreed this landslide was caused by a revolutionary upheaval spreading westwards from a revolution during 1905 within Russia. The purpose of Liberal reforms was to stop the Labour Party formed in 1906 from growing, and to contain any revolutionary threat. That Liberal Bourgeois strategy failed due to World War 1 horrors, and the impact of Russia's October 1917 revolution which saw Social Democratic governments in Britain for the first time. Those reforms from 1906 the British Ruling Class were forced to deepen after Labour's 1945 landslide victory to contain a revolutionary threat. Trotsky's statements during 1938 that the workers organisational break from Bourgeois politics may bypass a mass Social Democratic party straight t
[Marxism] optimum population song
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb00g1wU3oU&feature=related > To: marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > From: ecosocial...@gmail.com > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:29:28 -0500 > Subject: [Ecosocialist] And you thought carbon offsets couldn't get worse! > > Climate and Capitalism has frequently commented on two widespread > illusions - that global warming is caused by overpopulation, and that > buying offsets is an effective way to combat greenhouse gas emissions. > I never imagined that anyone would try to combine them. > > http://climateandcapitalism.com/?p=1473 > > Ian Angus > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EI-Network/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EI-Network/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > ei-network-dig...@yahoogroups.com > ei-network-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ei-network-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > _ Got more than one Hotmail account? Save time by linking them together http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394591/direct/01/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Danger of Overcapacity
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Nestor escribe: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/700m-shipyards-planned-for-far-east/396942.html http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/business/news/article_1521805.php/Putin-says-Russia-to-invest-billions-in-shipbuilding http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/28/content_12717450.htm http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE5BR00F20091228 And that's just *today*. If you look for this going back through October you will find more interesting things about Sino-Russian-Japanese plans for the Russian Far East. David Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] And you thought carbon offsets couldn't get worse!
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Climate and Capitalism has frequently commented on two widespread illusions - that global warming is caused by overpopulation, and that buying offsets is an effective way to combat greenhouse gas emissions. I never imagined that anyone would try to combine them. http://climateandcapitalism.com/?p=1473 Ian Angus Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Danger of Overcapacity
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == nada escribió: > the Port of Vladivostok (in total disappear since BEFORE the end of the USSR). Excuse me, source please. Not that I cannot believe such a thing took place. Whenever I may fall prey of that stupid illusion, I simply need to look around me in Buenos Aires, Argentina, where the cranes built in the GDR and imported by the Perón government in 1973/4 have turned into simulacra in a port that was transformed in a high class neighborhood, while they can be seen on operation TODAY in unified Germany in at least the harbors along the Elbe: yes, these things CAN happen. But Vladivostok. Aren´t you confusing the military instalations and the port itself? Just curious. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Danger of Overcapacity
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The BusinessWeek warns about the danger to the Chinese economy, but the magazine is mostly concerned with the United States. China, having extra capacity threatens to further overwhelm the US economy. I agree that many of the products of the Chinese stimulus, such as steel and automobiles, may not be validated in the market, because of already existing overcapacity. But the government does seem to be putting considerable money into upgrading public transportation and energy, albeit alongside even more coal burning and automobiles. However, China is moving much faster than the US in demanding fuel efficiency in its cars. On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 12:05:17PM -0500, S. Artesian wrote: > > Poses a risk to more than just the West, Michael. The expansion poses a > threat to China itself as profitability has declined dramatically in the > heavy, state supported industries that have received most of the stimulus. > > Fixed asset increases are "advantageous" [in capitalism] only to the degree > that the value of the fixed assets can be reproduced in expanded output. > With savings rate at such historically elevated levels in the US and EU, the > markets for the output are quite limited, and reproduction through the > domestic markets will require a radical transformation in the economy from > fixed asset investment to personal consumption. > > The growing asset bubble in Chinese commercial, and private real estate, is > not sustainable as a substitute for domestic reproduction of the capital > values-- as the recent history of the US and Europe has proven. > -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu michaelperelman.wordpress.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dismissal of the Liberal/sexist humor
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Sobuadaigh wrote: Lara writes some nice things about Dogan after reading all the the criticism he has received of late. You responded with sexual innuendo. It wasn't funny comrade. Let it drop and perhaps send an apology off list. --- The point of my agreeably ill-considered attempt at humor was precisely the fact that Lara was personalizing the issue, when the whole point of the thread, up until Ruthless tried to butt in, was a discussion of the CPUSA and their support for the health care bill under consideration in Congress. AFAIC, Dogan didn't need Lara rushing to his defense like Sir Galahad defending the honor of a virgin maiden. Thus my attempt to deflate the issue, which has since blown up in my face. If only people didn't take themselves so seriouslyAnd I'm sure Lara, in turn, does not need you coming to her defense, like Sir Galahad...etc. Talk about sexist! As far as apologies are concerned, I'll apologize publicly. Lara, I'm sorry if I offended you. Greg Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note -- final warning
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Okay, this thread involving Dogan, the CPUSA has hit a brick wall. I understand that Marxists have a stubbornness that far exceeds the average person's but you can thank me once again for crisis intervention. The next person who insists on keeping it alive will be put on moderation. All that means is that we will review your posts before sending them to the list. Please don't ask me and Les to babysit you, though. So CUT IT OUT. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dismisal of the Liberal/sexist humor
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 12/28/2009 1:45 PM, sobuadha...@hushmail.com wrote: > Lara writes some nice things about Dogan after reading all the the > criticism he has received of late. You responded with sexual innuendo. > It wasn't funny comrade. gotta agree here with sobuadhaigh ... Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dismisal of the Liberal/sexist humor
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == sobuadha...@hushmail.com, If someone wants to convey information offlist and without group comment, why post it here? On the other hand, if people post things here for public consumption, it's fair to expect the readers of the post to have the right to comment on them. At least that's the usual understanding of an email list. I'm confused as to the criteria you suggest for making exceptional special privileges. Or should you just tell us who's public statements should be accepted as one-way communications. Or am I just being an impertinent jerk disrespectful to Uncle Joe for asking? ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] [microsound] What to Do About In-Flight Restrictions?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 12/28/2009 1:45 PM, New Tet wrote: > Movies and GPS readouts during plane travel are being restricted or outright > eliminated. This in spite of the recently reported heroics of passengers and > crew (none of whom was a "duly sworn" officer of the law) . > US gov has to respond to this to make it look like they care about the welfare of its citizens while they wage war elsewhere. front page article in the Times yesterday now informs us we (US) are at war with Yemen now. gotta keep the self-defense posture up and at em... > Sent from the Marxism mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > New Test shows us there is yet another way to read marxmail, and it looks to be a nice interface: http://old.nabble.com/Marxism-f33899.html Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dismisal of the Liberal/sexist humor
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == sobuadha...@hushmail.com escribió: > == > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > == > > > Greg wrote: > > Greg wrote: >> My attempt to 'dis'-arm with humor obviously fell >> flat...I guess some folks just can't take a joke. > > > Lara writes some nice things about Dogan after reading all > the the criticism he has received of late. You responded > with sexual innuendo. It wasn't funny comrade. Let it drop > and perhaps send an apology off list. > Please forgive my dumbness and my ignorance. Where and when did Greg "respond with sexual innuendo"? Just in order not to fall into same sin due to my poor skills in English. Serious, not joking. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] [microsound] What to Do About In-Flight Restrictions?
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Movies and GPS readouts during plane travel are being restricted or outright eliminated. This in spite of the recently reported heroics of passengers and crew (none of whom was a "duly sworn" officer of the law) . Not even hand-held video entertainment devices escape the ban. Oh my! I guess the flying industry will curtail the banal entertainment of its passengers in exchange for the quiet, introspective boredom of terror. On the other hand, maybe paperbacks, books and pamphlets will make a brief comeback amongst the weary traveler? If that happened it would be a small but possibly important and positive outcome of this newly-imposed repression. Distributing socialist leaflets at the local airport is a good idea now that so many people are likely to become bored with the humiliating tedium of feeling like a suspect every time they have to drag their suitcases from plane to plane to plane to plane. I recommend this one as possible model to follow: http://www.slp.org/res_state_htm/pol_promise.html -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/What-to-Do-About-In-Flight-Restrictions--tp26946390p26946390.html Sent from the Marxism mailing list archive at Nabble.com. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dismisal of the Liberal/sexist humor
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Greg wrote: Greg wrote: >My attempt to 'dis'-arm with humor obviously fell >flat...I guess some folks just can't take a joke. Lara writes some nice things about Dogan after reading all the the criticism he has received of late. You responded with sexual innuendo. It wasn't funny comrade. Let it drop and perhaps send an apology off list. Thinking about the lack of participation by more female comrades, I can't help bit think that the short, nasty put down passing as a post is surely one of those reasons. Louis has asked for more "polished" submissions and on that I can unite with him. For example, I greatly value the substantive information you have posted here about events in Central America and the need for solidarity. If you, or Mark, think that Lara is foolish for translating Dogan's work than tell her off the list, please. It has no bearing on anything we are discussing here Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Chuck Grimes comments on Cockburn (from LBO-Talk)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 12/27/2009 5:57 PM, Leonardo Kosloff wrote: > I was wondering if you've heard of Piers Corbyn and his group in > weatheraction.com, who dismiss global warming as > 'non-sense'http://www.weatheraction.com/pages/pv.asp?p=wact10&fsize=0 . > i'm aware of the attempts to correlate weather patterns with solar activity. i don't find them impressive, do you? > Piers Corbyn is an astro-physicist so was Jim Hansen ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen i first heard about climate change and the greenhouse effect in astrophysics lectures on planetary atmospheres back in the 80's. i always respected the atmospheric scientists' work, it was both data- and theory- rich. having known the community is probably one reason why i pretty much dismiss the CRU email thing, though i would have chosen to handle things differently than Jones et al in terms of battling politically and scientifically. here is Hansen: The nature of messages that I receive from the public, and the fact that NASA Headquarters received more than 2500 inquiries in the past week about our possible “manipulation” of global temperature data, suggest that the concerns are more political than scientific. Perhaps the messages are intended as intimidation, expected to have a chilling effect on researchers in climate change. The recent “success” of climate contrarians in using the pirated East Anglia e-mails to cast doubt on the reality of global warming* seems to have energized other deniers. I am now inundated with broad FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests for my correspondence, with substantial impact on my time and on others in my office. I believe these to be fishing expeditions, aimed at finding some statement(s), likely to be taken out of context, which they would attempt to use to discredit climate science. [snip] There are other researchers who work more extensively on global temperature analyses than we do – our main work concerns global satellite observations and global modeling – but there are differences in perspectives, which, I suggest, make it useful to have more than one analysis. Besides, it is useful to combine experience working with observed temperature together with our work on satellite data and climate models. This combination of interests is likely to help provide some insights into what is happening with global climate and information on the data that are needed to understand what is happening. So we will be keeping at it. *By “success” I refer to their successful character assassination and swift-boating. My interpretation of the e-mails is that some scientists probably became exasperated and frustrated by contrarians – which may have contributed to some questionable judgment. The way science works, we must make readily available the input data that we use, so that others can verify our analyses. Also, in my opinion, it is a mistake to be too concerned about contrarian publications – some bad papers will slip through the peer-review process, but overall assessments by the National Academies, the IPCC, and scientific organizations sort the wheat from the chaff. The important point is that nothing was found in the East Anglia e-mails altering the reality and magnitude of global warming in the instrumental record. The input data for global temperature analyses are widely available, on our web site and elsewhere. If those input data could be made to yield a significantly different global temperature change, contrarians would certainly have done that – but they have not. from: http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2009/20091216_TemperatureOfScience.pdf > Here's a video of him with a Russian meteorologist on the issue about those > hacked e-mails, > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anHuOAXIl0M > i'll take a look at this ... > Basically, the two things he claims there are that CO2 does not drive > temperature and that temperatures have actually gone down in the last decade. > the usual fare. if we had a couple years we could have an interesting debate on the science of climate. Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Danger of Overcapacity
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Overcapacity is easily misunderstood and has several possible definitions. For economists it usually means that there's not enough demand to use all of the existing productive capacity. By keeping the Chinese currency undervalued external demand can provide outlets for more capacity. The result will be Chinese ownership of large portions of foreign assets. Thrift and hard work is one element of the policies that will propel China toward being the globe's superpower. Trade friction will not effectively stop the export of cheap goods, because cheap goods are what the world wants. The result of that process is not clearly seen, much like the abuse of consumer credit by those who don't know any better and those who only live for today. The old superpowers are selling the family inheritance and going on a spending spree. Aside from being a subsidy to crooks, if stimulus was applied to match demand and supply then overcapacity would not be a problem. And, vast amounts of money could be created, and rapid growth could be attained without inflation, but only so long as the scale of the global economy remained below levels at which further increases in capacity were not limited by other factors. Coordinated biz policies can and do limit capacity short of expected demand to boost profits. Resource scarcity can limit capacity too. While those strong forces operate to limit capacity, the causes driving overcapacity are an aversion to directing stimulus directly to consumers and the stupid theory that supply side stimulus is all that is needed. For those who live in poverty, those who want low prices, and those who just want more and more, overcapacity seems like a good idea. For those who advocate stewardship of natural resources overcapacity is not nearly as bad as overdemand. When the goose that lays golden eggs dies, we will have proof that overdemand is possible even without throwing any money out of airplanes. Who would ever believe it? Barry Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] ReSocialism and the defense of public education: Shift toHealth
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == hari kumar wrote: > Would someone (preferably at least one of the more dogmatic people here who > insist that there is no value *at all* in the bill) explain to me what > reforms are "acceptable" and what ones are not? Comment Not supporting the Senate bill means the Single payer organization I am involved with, will not use any of its resources or time in advocacy for the Senate bill but continue to do what were organized to do: promote and push for a single payer system amongst UAW members. We should and will continue our protest in favor of a Single payer system, and continue our underlying agitation against the current system of health insurance. We favor a government run medical plan without insurance companies. We oppose any bills that require us to pay insurance companies, because we view them as a large part of the problem. In fact some of us feel insurance companies serve no socially useful purpose in society and exists to make profit for individuals. Every dollar spend on medical care as a system, is one dollar that cannot be spent at Wal Mart or someplace else. Medical cost drive bankruptcy amongst individuals and 62% of home foreclosures. In a capitalist system, socially necessary means of life that become to expensive for businesses and huge sections of the working class need to be taken over by government as an immediate concession that lessens the burden on the poorest workers. Concessions that improve the economic and political life of the workers are supported and fought for. “Aid the workers” means aid in pursuit of socially necessary means of life. Because our working class is spilt into economic layers one must ascertain what section of workers their organization or group is advocating for. Our retired workers group is composed on the historically better paid workers, ranging from age 50 - 90, with different economic needs. Thus, we chose Medicare for all because it answers all our needs and those of our neighbors who have no unions and more often than not make less than our pensions, even after they work 50 - 60 hours a week. Medicare for all means we are not fighting amongst ourselves, but against the exploitative capitalist nature of the health care delivery system. Reform of the system is a larger question. The Senate Bill punishes the poorest section of the working class making them pay into a system of medical care they previously were not required to pay into. Medical care should not cost the individual money. We favor a system where government pays all the cost for medical care. Further, the Senate bill does not offer us retired workers, between age 50 and 64, immediate economic relief. The Senate bill is designed to sell us insurance rather than provide us medical care. The Senate bill does not meet the criteria of what our single payer group considers a supportable bill, worthy of advocacy. WL. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Health care counter-reform, working class consciousness, 2010 and 2012
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This list is one of my main sources of information, especially about what is really going on in the old USA. Reading the discussion here has convinced me that the "health care reform" has become a counter reform which will not improve health care in the USA. However, I am still certain that most people in the USA, especially most of the people who voted for Obama and most of the people who presently do not have adequate health care - do not read this list, and still THINK that things are going to improve for them. The fact that both House and Senate versions of this bill have been cleverly crafted to delay any protest against the reform may be besides the point. People expect change, and they are not going to get any change. How soon will disappointment set in? And what form will it take? Most likely that disaffection will not set in before the 2010 elections, although disaffection with the economy and wars will probably be a factor in how, or whether, people vote. Will there be a swing back towards the Republicans? Will voters just stay home? From what I can gather from this list and elsewhere, no one on the left is seriously engaged in trying to develop a left electoral alternative to the Democrats for the 2010 elections. And how is the upcoming immigration reform, likely to be the centerpiece of the 2010 legislative season, and thus a key 2010 campaign issue, going to play out? The fact that liberals like Dean are distancing themselves from Obama and Democratic Party House and Senate leaderships is a clear sign that the Obama administration has in no way fulfilled the illusions that the people who voted for them had. Things seem to be moving in a direction in which the left could have a big opportunity leading up to the 2012 presidential elections. Happy New Year, Anthony Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Tom Segev finds critique of Israel lacking
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == (Some things worth mentioning. This is the first article by Tom Segev, an uncompromising "revisionist" Israeli historian, in the New York Review of Books, a journal that has been accommodating to Israel over the years and the book that he finds fault with is a Verso book. The lengthy article is behind a subscriber's firewall so I am sending the whole thing.) The New York Review of Books Volume 57, Number 1 · January 14, 2010 Israel & Palestine: Eternal Enmity? By Tom Segev Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations by Avi Shlaim Verso, 392 pp., $34.95 In June 1948 a British official, blaming the United States for the creation of Israel, described the new nation as a "gangster state." Over sixty years later the Oxford historian Avi Shlaim writes: "I used to think that this judgment was too harsh, but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush Administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question." Shlaim wrote these words several months before a UN fact-finding mission headed by former South African judge Richard Goldstone concluded that some of Israel's actions in Gaza during its attack on the Hamas-controlled territory in December 2008 and January 2009 amount to war crimes and possibly crimes against humanity. The Goldstone report is over five hundred pages long, and outlines a number of carefully researched cases that seem to justify its horrific conclusions. The report also describes war crimes committed by Palestinians against Israeli civilians, hardly mentioned by Shlaim: he is not only less well informed than the UN investigator, as was to be expected; his judgment is less balanced. Born in 1945 in Baghdad, Shlaim grew up in Israel and in the mid-1960s "served loyally in the Israeli army," as he writes. For most of his life though he has been living in England where he is a fellow of St. Antony's College, a professor of international relations at the University of Oxford, and a fellow of the British Academy. He is the author of numerous books on the Middle East, among them the best comprehensive history of the Arab–Israeli conflict—The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World.[1] NYR Holiday Subscription Special His new book, however, containing mostly book reviews and essays published during the past fifteen years, is disappointing. Much of it consists of moralizing prose rather than scholarly research, with platitudes such as "it would make sense to update the biblical image of David and Goliath: a Palestinian David facing an Israeli Goliath." A long-standing critic of Israel, Shlaim likes to use provocative epigrams such as "American Jews admire Israel for her body, while Israelis are attracted to American Jews for their money." Shlaim's collected essays recall the wrath of scholars who twenty-five years ago made up the group of angry young men—I was one of them—called Israel's "New Historians." Rereading these essays today shows how conventional Israel's "New History" has become. Writing a different version of Israel's history was an exuberant and challenging experience. The new work appeared at the beginning of the 1980s when the Israeli government began declassifying official documents that made it possible, for the first time, to free the study of Israel's early days from the constraints of Zionist ideology, mythology, and fiction. The emerging picture was naturally less heroic and less noble than the official textbooks had it, with many gray areas that justified doubt and generated numerous heated debates. Thus for instance it emerged that in 1949 the Syrian president, Husni Zaim, had asked to negotiate peace with Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion. As part of the deal Zaim offered to absorb into Syria 300,000 Palestinian refugees. Ben-Gurion refused to see Zaim, noting in his diary that in exchange for peace the Syrians were demanding "half the Sea of Galilee," i.e., the part bordering on Syria. Zaim was assassinated soon afterward and so it cannot be said that Israel missed a historic opportunity for peace with Syria, as Shlaim seems to believe. For Israelis, however, the accepted truth had always been that Israel did everything to pursue negotiations with its Arab neighbors while they refused to talk to Israel. The Zaim episode proved that we were not told the truth. The Israeli government concealed the truth in other ways as well. In 1949 Polish Jews who survived the war were allowed to emigrate to Israel, which required a decision where to house them once they arrived. In those days, tens of thousands of Jewish immigrants from Arab countries were living in tent cities and transit camps, but the newcomers from Poland were to be put up in hotels. Th
Re: [Marxism] Dismissal of the liberal Dogan Gocmen and the CPUSA ga-ga
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lara Crete wrote: Hi, Greg Mc Donald! Do you have anything valuable on your creative mind , something that I could translate into Russian to be published in the "Marx and Our Time" journal? Something what the wise calls for the "Enlightenment"? Vulgarity is the name of the weapon, you use. Fine. I know that now, so I am armed. And I am mourning the disappearance of the Marxism Movement in Europe, what happened to me after I finished the translation of the Dogan Dogmen essay on Rosa Luxemburg . And I am rejoicing now with the Marx-21 Initiation which happened on December 19 in Rome. This is how I armed against your next post. Hi Lara! In answer to your question, can't say that I do. I appreciate the fact that you are fully armed with pen in hand, but there are no weapons over here, my dear. May I suggest a little detente? My attempt to 'dis'-arm with humor obviously fell flat. But perhaps when one is dealing with high church agape, and not eros, one runs the risk of being impaled by the sword of a pure angel. I guess some folks just can't take a joke. G. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Tehran: Photos--Demonstrators fight back
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Greg McDonald wrote: > > Great photos of the recent demonstration in Tehran over at the > Trot-lite Huffpo website: > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/27/iran-protestors-beat-poli_n_404533.html?slidenumber=vQzKPj1x3F8%3D&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow > It is interesting that the MRZine/James Petras/Edward Herman school of outside agitatorism seems at a loss to frame the more recent protests in their customary ideological framework. This radicalized movement that fewer and fewer imperialist politicians identify with today is not being run out of a George Soros NGO. Therefore, it is harder to stigmatize. This demonstrates how superficial the outside agitatorism analysis was. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Tehran: Photos--Demonstrators fight back
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Great photos of the recent demonstration in Tehran over at the Trot-lite Huffpo website: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/27/iran-protestors-beat-poli_n_404533.html?slidenumber=vQzKPj1x3F8%3D&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow&slideshow Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Dismissal of liberal Dogman Gocmen or CPUSA ga-ga
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lara Crete wrote: Thus Dogan Gocmen stirred all passions and turned himself into the major problem in the Marxmail List for days. Thank you, Dogan. Thank you Comrade. - Next thing you know Marxmail will be receiving anonymous love sonnets addressed to that great martyr of the list Dogan Gocmen! Speaking of stirring passions, may I suggest you two get a room somewhere posthaste? Greg McDonald Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Dismissal of liberal Dogman Gocmen or CPUSA ga-ga
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Once I clicked my home Marxmail list away into the Spam. Not having temptation at least for a while to express myself on the list, I contacted the Turkish philosopher Dogan Gocmen, asking his permission to translate his essay which I wanted to be read in Russian as well. The essay is "Rosa Luxemburg, the legacy of classical German philosophy and the fundamental methodological questions of social and political theory". I thank Dogan Gocmen for the trust: I had never translated the philosophical literature and the risk on his part was not that small. But my determination to deliver this wonderful work of his into the modernly corrupted Russia has matched the risk and I got from the philosopher permission. My translation was immediately accepted for the publication in the Russian journal "Marx and Our Time".At the moment of this writing it is coming out of print and I will get my first philosophical translation published at the beginning of the next month. A few days ago the editor of the journal called me, asking me to transfer to Dogan Gocmen the words of the deepest thanks and gratitude for his, so timely needed work. "My great please!", I said and ran to my, now retorted ( thanks to comrades!), home Marxmail list to say it load, to say it to all... Well, I could not "enter" the list: there was a problem and the problem developed into the commotion and there was no place for my message from Russia. There was "CPUSA ga-ga" problem, there was a problem,which created the CPUSA problem at the first place, and it was the USA No-Health - No-Reform Bill which is the eternal/internal USA problem. But there was another problem, which somehow became the major! And the problem in the Marxmail list at that moment was the brilliant Turkish Marxist philosopher Dogan Gocmen!... If I still wanted to say something, anything to my comrades on this list, I had to wait. While waiting, I have learned how the commotion started : the Turkish philosopher put the provocative question on the Marx list: "what is the meaning of this New USA Health Care Bill?"... Thus Dogan Gocmen stirred all passions and turned himself into the major problem in the Marxmail List for days. The dust came down now. And I can use this wonderful time of peace to say what I wanted to say a few days ago, but could not. "We decided on the front page of our journal to print the profile of Rosa Luxemburg", said to me the Russian editor of "Marx and our Time", " for the Dogan Gocmen's essay is really the jewel of this issue'. Thank you, Dogan. Thank you Comrade. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Chávez speech on the Fifth International
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Hi, is the Chávez speech at the PSUV congress that mentions the Fifth International available in English somewhere on the internet..? Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] 1, 300 activists converge on Cairo for Gaza freedom march
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://www.rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/gazadelegation/2009/12/1300-activists-co nverge-cairo-we-are-blocked-we-will-not-be-st Code Pink Canadian Delegations to Gaza Coming up on December 31, 2009 is the Gaza Freedom March. Follow Canadian delegates David Heap and Wendy Goldsmith as they prepare and travel for the march, and join more than a thousand activists from around the word in an international action to open the borders to Gaza. For details of this initiative see: www.gazafreedommarch.org Following on the successful delegation of March 09 (which included rabble publisher, Kim Elliott), more than six further Code Pink delegations, including a delegation of Canadian Members of Parliament, traveled from Cairo to Gaza this summer to pressure the opening of Rafah border, and an end to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The border has effectively been closed since July 2007, when Israel imposed a blockade. Delegation members Kim Elliott, Sandra Ruch, Ehab Lotayef, Medea Benjamin, and Libby Davies have shared posts in this blog. For more on Code Pink's initiatives on Gaza, see: http://www.womensaynotowar.org/ 1300 Activists converge on Cairo: We are blocked but we will not be stopped By Wendy Goldsmith | December 27, 2009 Crowd of Gaza Freedom Marchers in Tahrir Square, Cairo (photo by Brandon Delyzer) 1300 Activists Converge on Cairo: We're Blocked But We Won't Be Stopped After two Gaza Freedom March actions and meetings today were shut down by Egyptian Police, over 1000 activists met outdoors tonight at Tahrir Square (our indoor meeting permit had been cancelled earlier). We are told that no buses will be allowed to leave Cairo with GFM participants headed for Gaza. However, at 7am tomorrow morning we will be at the garage where we were originally to depart from, ready to board buses to El Arish. Despite the setbacks, spirits are high and activists are willing to do what it takes to press for an end to the siege. Vive la France! The French Government has reportedly negotiated an agreement which will allow some 250 French marchers to travel to the border and cross into Gaza. Canadian participants are asking, "What about our government? Where is the official support for our humanitarian mission?" As different groups try diverse ways to get to Gaza and put pressure on authorities to ease restrictions, one thing is certain- things will continue to evolve quickly in the crowded, polluted chaos that is Cairo. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] ReSocialism and the defense of public education: Shift to Health
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == As Rosa Luxemburg explained in "Reform or Revolution," if revolutionary socialists did not work for reforms they would have nothing to do in the public political arena. Except maybe walk the streets with a "socialist revolution is the only solution" sign _a la_ the cartoon characters with "the end is near" signs. Does that mean that revolutionary socialists should work for any "reform"? I don't think so. I call some reforms, "capitalist reforms." I'm not particularly interested in working to make the capitalist system work better or provide some special benefit for a particular corporate sector. I think we need criteria to use to prioritize reforms that are worth working for - from a revolutionary socialist standpoint. A quick list: which reforms are in workers interests, will qualitatively improve workers well-being and economic security, and may increase working class consciousness, class political strength, unity and willingness/ability to fight for more "working class reforms." I think that a universal, "single-payer" healthcare system is definitely a reform that revolutionary socialists should support, using the criteria above. A new law that requires individuals to purchase private profit health insurance does not make the grade, in my opinion. When thinking about this issue, i think it is useful to understand that early in the Clinton administration there was a public debate about a reform to ensure that everyone had needed healthcare. By the time of the recent presidential election when 'change we can believe in' was clearly going to be a winning political slogan, the ruling class had used their two-party capitalist political system to change the issue from healthcare for everyone, to *health insurance* for everyone. Private profit health insurance is, of course, just a capitalist racket - entirely comparable to a mafia protection racket. We must pay 20 - 25% off the top to the health insurance mafia in order to be allowed in the healthcare door. The private profit health insurance system is being 'reformed' so that millions more poor and working people will be required to throw hundreds of millions more dollars down that corporate waste drain. And hey, if you 'qualify' you can beg the capitalist government to use some of our tax dollars to give you some assistance in forking over more dough to the corporate health insurance mafia. Dayne On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 1:14 PM, hari kumar wrote: > > I am a bit confused: > The issues on education that were put by the opposing sections seemed both > respectful and mindful on both sides, of the distinction between reformist > steps and reovelutionary steps. While accepting that reformist measures are > at times, to be accepted by the revolutionary movement. Yet I see no > semblance of that un-emotive (and open-minded) tone in the current > discussion on the patently inadequate health bills. > > Would someone (preferably at least one of the more dogmatic people here who > insist that there is no value *at all* in the bill) explain to me what > reforms are "acceptable" and what ones are not? > > Hari Kuamr > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
