Re: [Marxism] Analysis of crisis in the British SWP
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == > > Jim wrote: > > Well, if Labour were to somehow win the next general > election, wouldn't Gordon Brown be cutting services > to the disabled, just like Cameron most surely would? > > My reply: Well that is my position too, Jim. But my friend thinks > otherwise and he is a very smart bloke. I wonder now thinking about Britian what role the 1990 Poll tax riots played in the demise of Thatcher and the rise of Thatcherism with a Labor face i.e. Blair & Co. In the twenty years since political apathy seems to have gripped the British working class almost totally. In the circumstances the ruling class must feel that it is safe to experiment with throwing out the Second Eleven (Labor Party) and reinserting their First Eleven & favourites. The Tory leader, Cameron, an old Etonian, can be fully expected to act in the spirit of Newbolt's poem - There's a breathless hush in the Close to-night -- Ten to make and the match to win -- A bumping pitch and a blinding light, An hour to play and the last man in. And it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat, Or the selfish hope of a season's fame, But his Captain's hand on his shoulder smote -- 'Play up! play up! and play the game! Well let's hope Cameron and his ilk find the pitch very bumpy indeed and let us also hope that the "blinding light" turns out to be cast by the fiery banners of proletarian revolution. regards Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Stench of Science Fiction
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Of course, all these capitalist vermin are touting their "green" credentials. Even oil companies are painting their same old message as green as they can. They also claim to be democratic and anti-racist and fair to women and treating their workers well. They have enough low cunning to recognize the popularity of ideas and to try to take advantage of them. Does that mean we should oppose being democratic, anti-racist, or green? Of course not. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] World's Glaciers Continue to Melt at Historic Rates
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 4:11 PM +1000 2/6/10, Gary MacLennan wrote: >But we shouldn't worry should we as >them there long haired scientists are all a bunch of fakers and liars and >data fudgers, aren't they? >They might be communists and homosexuals too, y'know. (Thomas Kuhn + Carolyn Merchant) > Hyperbole Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] World's Glaciers Continue to Melt at Historic Rates
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I am no expert here at all. But South Queensland where I live has been in the grip of a horrific drought. Last year Brisbane almost ran out of water and we had extremely strict water rationing & that's in a city of over a million people. The rain where it is falling now is up in the tropical North, but the population is in the South. Australian climate scientists have issued the gravest of warnings about the impact of climate change on Australia. But we shouldn't worry should we as them there long haired scientists are all a bunch of fakers and liars and data fudgers, aren't they? They might be communists and homosexuals too, y'know. In any case let's hope Paula and Spiked on Line are right, because the main political parties and that includes the Labor Government are not doing very much at all about global warming. regards Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The Stench of Science Fiction
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 11:37 PM -0500 2/5/10, Mark Lause wrote: >In this case, you have corporate apologists jumping on the fact that >overzealous scientists here and there tossing bits of bad evidence into a >vat of irrefutably sound evidence. The public relations and advertising >firms engaged in this concerted denial of reality are some of the same >people who successfully blew smokescreens for the tobacco industry for >years...decades, really. Would that this were the whole story. The model for the tobacco industry's successful PR campaigns (going back to Bernays in the 1920s) is apt - the truth just happens to be exactly, perfectly, symmetrically 180 degrees from your assertion. The Greenies have the big guns behind them, and it hardly takes much diligence to observe this. Just look at any corporate media that exists anywhere in the world. I don't buy that you're unaware of the efforts made by every company, over the last couple years, to advance their own little "Green" agendas for economic growth (i.e., an agenda which does precisely what we ought to combat)? There is no economic benefit, from a PR standpoint, to saying "we're polluters" -- those days are long gone. So who better to carry this new agenda forward than Mr. Greenie himself, Al Gore? Big Al couldn't win an election that he won, but he has shown the canny ability to bilk a whole shit-ton of well-intentioned people and make serious coin in the process. By his happy incarnation, the cause of 'environmental justice', punishing the marauders, is wiped off the agenda. Poisonous dirt is ignored. Food safety, dismissed. Genetic engineering is disregarded. Never contemplated is the cancer epidemic. Etc. Today, instead, we have Greenwashing. From a PR standpoint - from a bullshit standpoint - EVERYONE's green. The stimulus basically aimed to re-inflate the economy with Helicopter Ben's money bombs, creating a Green bubble by retrofitting windows and installing solar panels at the J. Edgar Hoover Building. That it hasn't successfully done so - I'm not sure it will - has no bearing on the fact of the matter. It's with good 'business sense' that in the last year or two, every company on the planet has seen political & economic ADVANTAGE by being "Green". That's why we see 9147 cubic ft. refrigerators called "energy saver" and marketed as though the consumer, through the act of purchasing, has personally returned to natural economy. The model advanced by the Greenies who have grown so dependent on junk science perpetuates a growth=based economy rather than a sustainable one. Those who are killing, raping, pillaging and plundering of earth today warrant no punishment from Al Gore and his ilk. Their science fiction diverts attention from this reality. Meanwhile, the Mighty Wurlitzer says, "ignore the criminals trying to privatize the water and air; buy this cool new light bulb". It all stinks to high heaven. Solidarity, Shawn Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Zinn: The Historian Who Changed History
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I wasn't even going to respond on this, and get into the fish-slapping silly shit about who is and isn't a Marxist. But who is and isn't a "Beardsian" may cost me sleep. I've never heard of a "Beardsian," but I suspect that, in this day and age, most people wouldn't know one if it bit them in the ass. In seriousness, most of us who probably realize how inescapably central issues of race are to understanding how America works. Zinn's contributions and those of the Beards approached that matter from diametrically opposed perspectives. Classing Zinn as a "Beardsian" seems not to understand these central differences related to race. This isn't some triviality like misunderstanding Whig forgeign policy. There is the racial conquest of the continent foundational to the civilization, and the entire racial enslavement of Africans. Related, too, are the issues of Jeffersonian, sectionalism and the agrarian particularism for which Beard had great affinities and Zinn regarded with due skepticism. In this regard, the "Marxist" writers of the 1930s and 1940s were far more "Beardsian" than Zinn. Indeed, these are some of the central issues that distinguished the body of New Left scholarship from the old line dogmas of those writers connected with the CP. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Zinn: The Historian Who Changed History
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:11:38 -0500 sobuadha...@hushmail.com writes: > > > > The great irony in Mark's observation is that what > while Zinn was enormously popular he was never a > Marxist, unlike Foner. I don't want to start a > Paula-esque/Rosaist flame war over the dubious merits of > "A People's History." Howard Zinn had an enormously > influential career and is beloved by the American left. > His "Voices of a People's History" is of great merit > as a collection of source material which will enrich > the study of American history. He was, in many ways, > the Charles Beard of this era which is fitting > considering how of his work replicates Beard's approach. That's my impression of Zinn. As a historian, he was probably more Beardsian than Marxist. His work in many respects hearks back to the heyday of American Progressivism as represented by writers like Charles Beard, John Dewey, and Randolph Bourne. In one of his earlier books, *The Politics of History*, he wrote admiringly about those kinds of thinkers. > > It is equally true that it would be foolish in > the extreme consider criticism of his work to > be some kind of line of demarcation. That reeks > of a cult of personality that I sure he did not want. > > > Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=R-Vk5WVICwpwF3-RXbNctwAAJ1BRugI4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAAYQAA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Ya know, the guy who first recognized that the bones in the La Brea Tar Pits as prehistoric rather than the remains of contemporary animals that just strayed into them was an Englishman named William Denton. He was a spiritualist and a psychometrist...that is, someone who discerned the nature of an object by feeling it. I think his evidence wasn't worth smilodon doo-doo, but it didn't mean he was wrong. In this case, you have corporate apologists jumping on the fact that overzealous scientists here and there tossing bits of bad evidence into a vat of irrefutably sound evidence. The public relations and advertising firms engaged in this concerted denial of reality are some of the same people who successfully blew smokescreens for the tobacco industry for years...decades, really. I'm flabbergasted that such corporate apologists find cothinkers among would-be radicals. OK, I confess. I'm not really flabbergasted. I decided to say that I am to emphasize a point. I honestly wish I would be flabbergasted, but I've lived so long on the Marxist left that I've learned to expect it. : - ) ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Analysis of crisis in the British SWP
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 13:17:32 +1000 Gary MacLennan writes: > > > > There is a danger of course in such a formulation and that is the > development of a hyper sectarian attitude to the Labour Party. I > include > the word hyper here because truth be told I do not know what the > answer is > in terms of the problems represented by the Labour Party and > Labourism. To > me Mandelsohn and Brown are enemies *tout court*. No alliance is > possible > with them. Yet as a good friend patiently explained to me on my > last trip > to London, services for disabled people like himself would be cut > under a > Cameron government and that was why he was voting Labour. > Well, if Labour were to somehow win the next general election, wouldn't Gordon Brown be cutting services to the disabled, just like Cameron most surely would? It seems to me that the Labour Party has over the years become just like the Democratic Party in the US, except that whereas in the US, at least some radical leftists are able to see that it is just another capitalist party, many British leftists still view it as a "bourgeois workers party" as Lenin had described it more than eighty years ago. Just as in the US, the two parties, despite their differences in rhetoric, enact mostly the same sorts of policies, especially in regards to economic policy and foreign policy, so the same is also true for the Tories versus Labour. Labour is just as much a bourgeois party as the Tories. > > regards > > Gary > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/farmelantj%40juno.com > > Hotel Hotel pics, info and virtual tours. Click here to book a hotel online. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=RigMeeqEh2rNrYAoAVGU3gAAJ1BRugI4sJACAWmXIev8NAFPAAYAAADNAAATRAA= Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == At 9:10 PM -0500 2/5/10, Louis Proyect wrote: > >The thing to worry about is the relationship between bogus science and >racism. Measuring the size of skulls in order to establish intelligence >is about as scientific as ... ... as what's happening at the University of East Anglia. And yet, that doesn't even give you pause. Shawn Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Analysis of crisis in the British SWP
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I found this article extremely interesting. I am reasonably familiar with the situation in Britain, and most of my recent trips have shown me that a deep despair is gripping every one decent at the very thought of a return to the Tories, never mind the reality of a Cameron government. I have only a minor point to make on a matter of detail here. Dave Packer and Jane Kelly wrote: We have seen the adoption of neo-liberalism and the *abject failures* of New Labour (and most of the trade unions) to fight for working class interests and the rights of the oppressed, or their failure to take the necessary measures to do anything meaningful to combat the effects of climate change (my emphasis). My comment: I think it is a mistake to talk of the failures of Blair, Mandelsohn, Brown, Straw etc in terms of defending the interests and rights of the working class. Blair et al existed to attack those rights, always of course in the name of the "national interest". They did not fail. They succeeded almost totally. There is a danger of course in such a formulation and that is the development of a hyper sectarian attitude to the Labour Party. I include the word hyper here because truth be told I do not know what the answer is in terms of the problems represented by the Labour Party and Labourism. To me Mandelsohn and Brown are enemies *tout court*. No alliance is possible with them. Yet as a good friend patiently explained to me on my last trip to London, services for disabled people like himself would be cut under a Cameron government and that was why he was voting Labour. One can only hope that somehow or other the great mass of the *nouveaux miserables,* that Waistline writies so movingly and stirringly about, will not be tarry in entering onto the stage of history. We desperately need a revolt somewhere. Make that a "successf regards Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Greg McDonald wrote: > Mildly witty on your part Louis, but If I were you I would not be so > quick to whitewash the historical relationship between science and > racist theories. The thing to worry about is the relationship between bogus science and racism. Measuring the size of skulls in order to establish intelligence is about as scientific as believing that crystals can cure cancer. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Louis Proyect wrote: Greg McDonald wrote: > Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002), an American paleontologist, > evolutionary biologist and historian of science, studied these > craniometric works from a historical perspective in The Mismeasure of > Man (1981). He claimed that Samuel Morton had fudged data and > "overpacked" the skulls with filler in order to justify his > preconcieved notions on racial differences. > >Thank you for confirming my observation. Scientists do not fudge data. >Charlatans do. Mildly witty on your part Louis, but If I were you I would not be so quick to whitewash the historical relationship between science and racist theories. Madison Grant, author of "The Passing of the Great Race", was on the National Research Council Committee on Anthropology. Only after years of concerted effort did such icons as Franz Boas and his students succeed in driving people such as Grant out of the halls of academia. Unfortunately, some of them are still there. Greg McDonald Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Zinn: The Historian Who Changed History
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Mark wrote: >What distinguished Howard Zinn, for me, was that >he managed to bridge those New Left concerns with >an older tradition of Marxist history, people like >Phil Foner (whose name always manages to not get >mentioned here despite the enormous volume of work >he left behind). The great irony in Mark's observation is that what while Zinn was enormously popular he was never a Marxist, unlike Foner. I don't want to start a Paula-esque/Rosaist flame war over the dubious merits of "A People's History." Howard Zinn had an enormously influential career and is beloved by the American left. His "Voices of a People's History" is of great merit as a collection of source material which will enrich the study of American history. He was, in many ways, the Charles Beard of this era which is fitting considering how of his work replicates Beard's approach. It is equally true that it would be foolish in the extreme consider criticism of his work to be some kind of line of demarcation. That reeks of a cult of personality that I sure he did not want. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] A policy against pelotudos (was: Industrial capacity)
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == p.p.s. waistline, I'm from Argentina, I don't live there at the moment, but I did for most of my life. I will of course explain nothing about why I'm here in the US, because it has nothing to do with objective reality, although in Nestor's 'nationalist left' ideology, this is enough to dismiss anything I contribute as "bombastic liberal chatter", mostly because he can't reply, and so he extrapolates trying to imply anyone who doesn’t buy his bullshit is denying the existence of imperialist force, accuses anyone who doesn ’t buy his bullshit of murderer, anti-patriot, etc. Because, waistline, in Argentina, capitalism is fully developed and to have hopes for “radical Keynesianism” is to be counterrevolutionary. Comment Welcome to America. Where on earth, in 2010, may I ask is capitalism not fully developed? Nestor is S.Artesian whipping boy..You suggest I be banned from the list because I call matters as I see things and the comrade in question does in fact express the view of an imperial chauvinist, forever lecturing the world’s people on what they should and should not do. Grow up dude, people have been called supporters of rapist, murderers and everything under the sun from time to time because the list is filled with passionate people. Heck, you implied I was a chauvinists because I used standard American English. You need to ask S.Artesian off list about my description of the forms of the working class movement and unraveling of the economic basis of the fight for the independence of the proletariat. Ask off list. What was put forth was the most advanced analysis of class to every hit this list. Nestor is like shooting fish in a barrel but his questions are hard core and real. I answer questions. The real issue is what can roughly be called the military doctrine of the proletarian revolution in advanced capitalist countries. All this crap about the "Independence of the proletariat" without definition is subterfuge. The question of the independence of the proletariat and its meaning is a military question or question of revolutionary doctrine of combat based on a strata of the proletariat at the cutting edge of the struggle. Questions of doctrine of combat hinge on an advanced understanding of the form of the working class movement. I shall not be banned but you are free to advance your ideas about the specific alignment of class forces here and in Argentina. Of course you will not because you do not know where to begin or how to make a materialist analysis. You should understand I have read S.Artesian for years. His attitude is that of a bully boy and imperial chauvinist. We parted ways when I sent him an offlist message explaining the limits of my patience and his imperial attitude. He can talk tough with Nestor but I will not accept such crap. Point out to me one article he has produced in ten years that speak of the working class movement in America in the here and now. The issue of the independence of the proletariat, or rather a section of the working class contains more than meet the eye. Oh, I have no opinion about why anyone comes to America. WL. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] World's Glaciers Continue to Melt at Historic Rates
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == >>he should ask glacier-free Australians how they get their drinking water Guess what, there is a water crisis in Australia. Rivers dying, cities on water rationing. The local creek where I go walking is so dried up I can hardly bare to look. Of course that's only part of Australia. Further north they are getting worse and worse storms and flooding. This is real, it is not a drill. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] World's Glaciers Continue to Melt at Historic Rates
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Paula wrote: > Louis wrote: > "Paula, have you ever read any Marxist ecological literature? [clip] Please > don't waste our time." > > I see - another Argument from Authority. It's a good thing those Authorities > have got everything worked out. > Paula, please do not post again on climate change, a subject that you are so uninformed about. You are wasting bandwidth. I am *dead serious* about this. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Paula - Congratulations, you have made it to my "Fuckwits" (kudos to Louis for the folder name) email filter - and with hardly any effort on your part! (PS. I like the way you think because I have similar thoughts - for example I occasionally piss in the Kokosing (a small river / large stream in central Ohio) and find myself later reading about floods in Mississippi delta. Should I worry? Absolutely not, because that doesn't begin to explain the jobless rate here at all!) Keep the faith! - Bill Paula wrote: > == Rule > #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > == > > > Louis wrote: "The president of Bolivia has called attention to the > possibility that the melting of Andean glaciers will rob his people of > drinking water. It does not get more disastrous than that." > > Really? So the *possibility* of glaciers melting away in the future is more > disastrous than the *certainty* of widespread poverty and exploitation in > Bolivia today? A very convenient argument for the president of Bolivia, I'm > sure. But if he's really worried he should ask glacier-free Australians how > they get their drinking water. After all, the Bolivian glaciers could melt > away for entirely natural causes, just as glaciers have been doing for > thousands of years. Then what would 'his' people drink? > > Mark wrote: "But if they say something about it, it's rejected as merely > anecdotal". > > Anecdotal evidence can back up just about any case. It should not be > rejected, only accepted for what it is - no more than anecdotal evidence. > > Paula Send list submissions > to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/wquimby%40embarqmail.com > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] World's Glaciers Continue to Melt at Historic Rates
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Louis wrote: "Paula, have you ever read any Marxist ecological literature? [clip] Please don't waste our time." I see - another Argument from Authority. It's a good thing those Authorities have got everything worked out. Paula Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Paula wrote: > Really? So the *possibility* of glaciers melting away in the future > is more disastrous than the *certainty* of widespread poverty and > exploitation in Bolivia today? A very convenient argument for the > president of Bolivia, I'm sure. But if he's really worried he should > ask glacier-free Australians how they get their drinking water. After > all, the Bolivian glaciers could melt away for entirely natural > causes, just as glaciers have been doing for thousands of years. Then > what would 'his' people drink? I honestly don't know how to reply to such a breathtaking display of stupidity. The revolutionary upsurge in Bolivia that helped to put Morales in power was tied directly to the availability of water. The people of Cochabamba rose up over the privatization of water. The same issues are involved with the potential loss of water from the Andes, but on a global scale. G8 nations burn greenhouse gases that raise the temperature in the Andes. In exchange for air-conditioning in Phoenix, Dallas et al, the people of Bolivia will have to pay for water sold by some multinational. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0725512820070608 Reuters Global warming melts Andean glaciers toward oblivion Thu, Jun 7 2007 By Monica Machicao and Eduardo Garcia CHACALTAYA, Bolivia (Reuters) - Global warming will melt most Andean glaciers in the next 30 years, scientists say, threatening the livelihood of millions of people who depend on them for drinking water, farming and power generation. Small glaciers are scattered across the Andes and have for long been a crucial source of fresh water in Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru, thawing in summer months and replenishing themselves in winter. But global warming has driven them into retreat. The glacier on Bolivia's Chacaltaya mountain -- which means "cold road" in the local Aymara language -- used to be the world's highest ski resort at 18,000 feet above sea level. But the glacier is now only 10 feet thick on average, down from 49 feet in 1998, and glaciologist Edson Ramirez says it will disappear this year or next. "This is a process that unfortunately is now irreversible," he said, adding that industrialized nations are doing too little and too late to slash carbon dioxide emissions. "Even if they were to take measures now, it will take many, many years to replenish these glaciers, because unfortunately the damage has already been done," he said. "Most of these glaciers are similar to the Chacaltaya and that makes us think that those small glaciers could disappear in 20, 30 years." Over 2 million people in the La Paz region depend heavily on the thawing of Chacaltaya and neighboring glaciers for tap water and, indirectly, for electricity supplies. "At least 35 percent of the drinking water comes from melting glaciers, and about 40 percent of the electricity," said Oscar Paz, the head of the Bolivian Climate Change Panel, a government task force. WATER SHORTAGES Water is already scarce in El Alto, a sprawling lower-class satellite city north of the country's administrative capital La Paz. Almost 1 million people live in El Alto and most homes lack running water. Daniel Cuencas, a father of four, walks several blocks every day to fetch water from a stream and is well aware of what will happen when the glaciers disappear. "This right here is ice melt. That is where the drinking water comes from, from the mountains. So we know that there isn't going to be enough water," he said, fetching water with a rusty tin can from the stream. Water needs will only increase in coming years with the population in the La Paz region expected to double by 2050. Ecuador's capital Quito, with 1.5 million people, and the Peruvian capital Lima, with 8 million people, also rely on melting glaciers for water and energy supplies. About 80 percent of the Andean glaciers are similar in size to Chacaltaya at under 1 square kilometer, and experts say they are similarly doomed. Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru have started drafting plans with scientists to mitigate the negative effects of melting glaciers and experts say they will need to make large investments to find new water and energy sources. Paz said rich countries should create a global fund to compensate poor nations for the effects of global warming. "We're the victims of climate change, the underdeveloped countries like Bolivia, which are suffering the effects of shrinking glaciers," Paz said. Earlier this year, Bolivia's leftist President Evo Morales also blamed pollution from rich nations for the floods, droughts and hailstorms that pounded the poor South American country for three months. The extreme weather was triggered by El Nino, a weather phenomenon believed t
[Marxism] glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Louis wrote: "The president of Bolivia has called attention to the possibility that the melting of Andean glaciers will rob his people of drinking water. It does not get more disastrous than that." Really? So the *possibility* of glaciers melting away in the future is more disastrous than the *certainty* of widespread poverty and exploitation in Bolivia today? A very convenient argument for the president of Bolivia, I'm sure. But if he's really worried he should ask glacier-free Australians how they get their drinking water. After all, the Bolivian glaciers could melt away for entirely natural causes, just as glaciers have been doing for thousands of years. Then what would 'his' people drink? Mark wrote: "But if they say something about it, it's rejected as merely anecdotal". Anecdotal evidence can back up just about any case. It should not be rejected, only accepted for what it is - no more than anecdotal evidence. Paula Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Analysis of crisis in the British SWP
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Some Lessons of the Crisis in the SWP February 5th, 2010 The whole of the left in Britain, from those few still in the Labour Party to far left and revolutionary groups is in crisis. For twenty-five years, since the defeat of the Miners’ strike of 1984-5 we have been mostly on the defensive and the class struggle, measured in strike actions, or TU involvement in campaigns, compared to other European countries such as France, has been at a very low level. Only the anti-war mobilisation – for a time - and the growing movement against climate change have generated significant momentum, while the anti globalisation movement, or action against debt, have been a pale reflection of that in Europe. Attempts at left unity to fill the political space vacated by a right wing Labour Government, have either failed or at best found it difficult to make an impact. Most have floundered due to typical British sectarianism and bureaucratic and undemocratic manipulations of the movement In this context, the crisis in the SWP is significant for the whole of the left. To understand and learn the lessons of this crisis we have to analyse the situation and place it in its historical context. It is not adequate to blame this or that leadership or individual. The divisions in the SWP which led to the formation of the Left Faction – now dissolved – has not yet led to a major split and most members of the faction remain in the group. However this process is not over. The resignation of Tony Dowling after being ordered to resign his membership of the North East Shop Stewards Network followed by the resignation of eight members of Tyneside SWP shows that the crisis continues and is leading to a haemorrhaging of members. It is both a sad reflection of the politics of the SWP, but also highlights the failures of the British far left in this period when capitalism faces the unique twin crises of the collapse of the banks, severe credit restrictions triggering a general economic down turn and the accelerating effects of climate change. The failure of the left in Britain to come together in the face of this double crisis of capitalism and its immediate failure to offer some form of united socialist alternative in the coming General Election is alarming. This needs some explanation and solutions. The two factions in the SWP, while proclaiming the need for some kind of broad unifying left party, fail to offer a serious balance sheet of their past errors in the Socialist Alliance and Respect and consequently fail to outline any credible perspective. But first we have to ask why their internal discussions have led to such extreme conflict of split proportions. It can’t just be explained by clique politics but comes down to the nature of party democracy and functioning. full: http://socialistresistance.org/?p=835 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Hi
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well, I feel I should introduce myself to the list, since I've been asubscriber for two years. My name is Daniel Koechlin (my ancestors were German). I was born in 1976. Went to university, studied English, went to London, started a PhD on "Biblical and non-biblical sources of the Diggers' anti-authoritarianism in the English Civil War" which I never finished (although I did unearth an otherwise uninteresting Digger tract that was not in the Thomason collection). I subsequently spent six years in Suriname, Guyana and Venezuela (South America). I ended up a high school English teacher in France. My wife is Indian (from Bihar, Eastern India) and we have two kids. I speak French, German, English, Dutch, Spanish, Russian and Hindi. My first interest in politics came at the age of 17 after meeting Raoul Vanneigem, one of the founders of the Situationist movement (with Debord). I eventually grew bored with Situationist rhetoric and phraseology and read Marx, together with countless other authors with a "Council Communist" bias. I then became strongly involved in (Trade) Unionist activities and have been a staunch Union man ever since. This introduction is somewhat over-due, but here it is nonetheless. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] re : NPA runs veiled candidate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == With all due respect to the moderator who puts up with all of our chips, shoulders, and eccentricities, and is certainly more tolerant of me and people like me than I ever could be, I respectfully disagree. There's nothing more difficult or belligerent in Dan's posts than in many others, and council communism is a valid, historically significant part of Marxist activity. - Original Message - From: "Louis Proyect" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Greg McDonald wrote: > Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002), an American paleontologist, > evolutionary biologist and historian of science, studied these > craniometric works from a historical perspective in The Mismeasure of > Man (1981). He claimed that Samuel Morton had fudged data and > "overpacked" the skulls with filler in order to justify his > preconcieved notions on racial differences. > Thank you for confirming my observation. Scientists do not fudge data. Charlatans do. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] re : NPA runs veiled candidate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The headscarf wearing candidate is just a stunt from the NPA (5% of voters at the last election).They want to create a constituency among the dissafected Muslim population, but I think this will backfire on them. The NPA is an openly "Trotskyite" party that believes in building a mass party of the working class. I happen to live in a town that has been run by the French CP since the 1960s, then by a Socialist-Left Party-NPA coalition since the 1990s. Many local councilors defected from the CP when the going went bad (Berlin Wall went down in 1989) to join what was to become the Left Party. At the local level, the mayor's crownies get all the jobs. Those ex-CP, now Left Party or NPA representatives at the city council meetings are dependent for a living on "administrative work" on behalf of the large trade-unions (SUD and CGT). The NPA-Left Party (Melanchon's breakaway tendency from the Socialist Party) are all middle-class people (teachers...), who talk a lot about "Fair Trade initiatives", "organic food", "the need for trade unions to be represented in municipal decision making processes", "trams instead of buses", "allowing neighbourhood referendums" and the like. As a member of the FSU union, and as an avowed "council communist", I have always been met by scorn from those local Left Party and NPA representatives, all of them eager to show me that Trotskyism was "true Marxism", all condemning me for "anarcho-syndicalistic tendencies", while safely considering their best interests in the staus quo. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Doubling down
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == - Original Message - From: "brad bauerly" To: "David Schanoes" Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:56 AM Subject: [Marxism] Doubling down > == > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > == > > > With Europe reeling > http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f221d0b6-1230-11df-8d73-00144feab49a.html , > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/business/05markets.html?hp . There has > reemerged a flight to the dollar pushing it back up. This combined with > the > fact that "US payrolls lose 20,000 jobs in January, unemployment dips to > 9.7 > per cent" means that according to the 'experts' the US is doing smashingly > compared to Europe (funny I was just reading an article that claimed that > the crisis proved that the US could no longer deflect its economic > problems > onto its neighbors). But can this really be prevented from flowing back > into the US and triggering the dreaded 'double dip'? Will the drowning > capitalists pull each other down? > > Brad > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/sartesian%40earthlink.net Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Doubling down
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == With Europe reeling http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f221d0b6-1230-11df-8d73-00144feab49a.html , http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/business/05markets.html?hp . There has reemerged a flight to the dollar pushing it back up. This combined with the fact that "US payrolls lose 20,000 jobs in January, unemployment dips to 9.7 per cent" means that according to the 'experts' the US is doing smashingly compared to Europe (funny I was just reading an article that claimed that the crisis proved that the US could no longer deflect its economic problems onto its neighbors). But can this really be prevented from flowing back into the US and triggering the dreaded 'double dip'? Will the drowning capitalists pull each other down? Brad Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] re : Glaciergate
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Dan wrote: > In the mid 19th century, the scientific consensus was that the world was > facing over-population (Malthusianism) > In the late 19th century, the scinetific consensus was that some races > were inherently "inferior" (brain size and cognitive abilities) than others. Perhaps you meant to say that the economics consensus was Malthusian, but I am not even sure of that. Furthermore, an autopsy in the 19th century would reveal that the brain size of a member of an "inferior" race would reveal no differences from a "superior" race so I have no idea what you are referring to here. In fact, you can say that racialist theories were advanced on the basis of ignoring scientific examination. > The current consensus on climate change is what is found in the UN panel > on CLimate Change report, and it is nowhere as alarmist as what the > common man might think. The truth is, the belief that industrialization > in China, the US and India will lead to a Global Catastrophie speaks > volumes about the sociological changes caused by globalization and the > anxiety that followed the end of the 1950-1970 "Golden Age", but is it > hard science ? What in the world are you talking about? Nobody says that "industrialization" will lead to climate change. But the impact of greenhouse gases on climate change is accepted by nearly all scientists. The goal of socialists is to conceptualize economic development that minimizes greenhouse gas emissions. This means reducing the use of fossil fuels to a bare minimum. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] A Modest Proposal [WAS: Is Rosa real? Moderator]
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == That's your 5 for the day. Now can we perhaps consider the other shoe dropping off the one remaining leg of capitalism? Anyone know the odds in London on the EU surviving another year or two? - Original Message - From: "Rosa Lichtenstein" > > Ok, I'll keep to that, but you'll note that my replies have been of the > longer sort, and each one took me more than 20 minutes to compose. > > Rosa! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Moderator's note
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There is a five post a day limit. Also, I am very concerned that comrades don't waste bandwidth arguing about philosophy with Rosa since they go around in circles. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is Rosa real? Moderator
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Ok, I'll keep to that, but you'll note that my replies have been of the longer sort, and each one took me more than 20 minutes to compose. Rosa! Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] How surrendering Palestinian rights be came the language of “peace”
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The 1993 Oslo agreement did not only usher in a new era of Palestinian-Israeli relations but has had a much more lasting effect in transforming the very language through which these relations have been governed internationally and the way the Palestinian leadership viewed them. Not only was the Palestinian vocabulary of liberation, end of colonialism, resistance, fighting racism, ending Israeli violence and theft of the land, independence, the right of return, justice and international law supplanted by new terms like negotiations, agreements, compromise, pragmatism, security assurances, moderation and recognition, all of which had been part of Israel’s vocabulary before Oslo and remain so, but also Oslo instituted itself as the language of peace that ipso facto delegitimizes any attempt to resist it as one that supports war, and dismisses all opponents of its surrender of Palestinian rights as opponents of peace. Making the language of surrender of rights the language of peace has also been part of Israel’s strategy before and after Oslo, and is also the language of US imperial power, in which Arabs and Muslims were instructed by US President Barack Obama in his speech in Cairo last June. Full article: http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11034.shtml Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Is Rosa real? Moderator
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 2/5/2010 12:18 AM, Rosa Lichtenstein wrote: > I'm sorry, but I did not know there was a limit. What exaxclty is the limit? > i think its about 5 posts a day. the idea is longer, more in depth posts and less quick-jab back and forth which is more prone to being personal and generates more heat than light. Les Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Some more on Indonesian protest actions
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == http://maxlaneonline.com/2010/02/05/indonesia-links-to-more-reports-on-january-28-actions/ -- Dr. Max Lane Australian mobile no: 0410574336 www.maxlaneonline.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Howard Zinn: The historian who changed the history
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Howard Zinn: The historian who changed the history http://www.cipra.in/paper/HowardZinn.html History since its origin remained in the realm of the ruling elite. It presented, commented and concentrated on a minority gang of monarchs, tyrants, and their tales. It was called objective history. It comfortably and knowingly ignored and omitted the real history of the millions of people, who were oppressed by the ruling class. Howard Zinn challenged this academic establishment by boldly emphasizing that “there is no such thing as impartial history. The chief problem in historical honesty is not outright lie. It is omission or de-emphasis of important data. The definition of important of course depends on one's values.” Zinn decided to choose side; and he chose to take side of the oppressed, exploited and the toiling masses against the bourgeoisie regime. http://www.cipra.in/paper/HowardZinn.html Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
