Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 5:20 PM, Eli Stephens wrote: I drove by a rally of about 75 of them today in a rural county seat of in upstate California protesting April 15 tax deadline. One of them had a sign "Where's McCarthy When We Need Him?" Yeah, most seemed like fairly working class people, but I noticed some right wing gentrified types there as well, including from the golf set. > For sure the Tea Party movement doesn't include very many blacks or > Latinos, which probably ensures that they are "wealthier than the general > public" from that fact alone, but make no mistake, the majority of the shock > troops are working class people being misled into acting against their own > interests. Is Code Pink on the right track? I seriously doubt it. But > largely that's because countering the decades-long brainwashing of these > folks by FOX News and, not to give FOX too much credit, the rest of the > corporate media as well, is going to take a lot more than just Code Pink > trying to "make nice." > > > Eli Stephens > Left I on the News > http://lefti.blogspot.com > > > _ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your > inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/tomcod3%40gmail.com > Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == As Artesian indicates with his example, most polls nowadays are about "pushing" to get newsworthy responses. What the poll tells me is that the left, such as it is, is simply invisible in terms of the wider circles of the discontented. And, of course, it isn't going to become more visible because people have decided to implement an orientation to undefined legions of anonymous people on somebody else's phone This is pure and simple consumerist crap. The liberals are on about this now, partly because they are trying to develop a counterposturing to the GOP's posturing. We need to stop getting sidetracked by moral suasion and the appeals to ruling class reason and morality. What did all the civil disobedience and petitions and letter writing do over the health care issue? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. This, despite the fact that the majority had rather sane positions on the subject. But that majority was never mobilized. Instead of appealing to the reason and morality of the masters, we should have been establishing a more public presence with demonstrations, independent election campaigns, more vigorous activism. Above all, don't get distracted by P.T. Barnum holding a sign saying "This way to the egress." ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Mark makes THE critical point. Hello, Ms. Jones, I'm from the NYT and are you upset with the way the US Congress has been performing? You are? Well, can I ask you, do you think that the government has damaged the American economy and the American people by its bailout of the Wall Street investment banks? You do? And do you think, the bonuses paid out to bankers, and the salaries paid to top corporate executives have had a negative impact? You do? May I ask you, have you ever attended a rally or other event sponsored by or associated with the "Tea Party movement?" You haven't? Would you consider attending such an event, or picketing Barack Obama if he came to speak in your city? You wouldn't? OK, Thanks, good-bye. "Johnny, write her down as being sympathetic no, make that "sharing" the goals of the Tea Party movement and get me Paul Buhle." . - Original Message - From: "Mark Lause" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The cadres of the Tea Party movement are not working class folks "led astray." They would like everyone to think that they're just "regular people" sharing the concerns of regular people, but they are not. These are white people who have above white average incomes and assets. They are bankrolled by the same goons who bankrolled Ron Paul, who support Sarah Palin. - Original Message - From: "Eli Stephens" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == You made a complete mosh of what I wrote. If you did this on purpose, you are dishonest. If you did it because you're having trouble with English, please get remedial help. Until then, you are a complete waste of electrons. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Mark writes: >Again, people are arbitrarily smudging people who say in the polls, for >example, that they sympathize with the concerns of the tea partiers and the >tea partiers themselves. Then he says: >Most are politically retarded and morally blighted...to the point where >rationality >no longer works well. The most one can hope for is that they will see >people on the Left as human beings rather than the moral equivalent of large >fetuses who may be morally aborted after-the-fact... And you base this on the few people that you have personally talked with. Holy fuckin pot calling the kettle black. I am not disputing your view that most are not coherent in their politics- cut the budget but keep medicare, social security, defense spending and tax cuts- just your methodology and position of critique. Brad Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == S. Artesian writes: "These people are not the terrified impoverished frightened petit-bourgeoisie, caught between the rock and the hard place in the economy. These goons are an organized group of country-club thugs." Nonsense. They definitely are serving the interests of the country-club set, and the "powers behind the throne" who are organizing the events like cross-country bus tours may be part of that set, but the "shock troops" of the Tea Party are nothing of the sort. The New York Times article this morning claims that a poll says they are "wealthier than the general public," but please note that that is based on a telephone poll of people in general, not on a survey of the people actually showing up at Tea Party events. And even with that claim (undocumented by any data; are they 1% wealthier or 100% wealthier? No clue), we still read in that same article: "55 percent are concerned that someone in their household will be out of a job in the next year. And more than two-thirds say the recession has been difficult or caused hardship and major life changes." That doesn't sound much like the "country-club set" to me. For sure the Tea Party movement doesn't include very many blacks or Latinos, which probably ensures that they are "wealthier than the general public" from that fact alone, but make no mistake, the majority of the shock troops are working class people being misled into acting against their own interests. Is Code Pink on the right track? I seriously doubt it. But largely that's because countering the decades-long brainwashing of these folks by FOX News and, not to give FOX too much credit, the rest of the corporate media as well, is going to take a lot more than just Code Pink trying to "make nice." Eli Stephens Left I on the News http://lefti.blogspot.com _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea Party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote: > > In contrast, Code Pink -- and Kevin Zeese and Paul Buhle etc. etc. -- > START by sucking up to the Tea Party (and 9/11 truth maniacs) If you start by sucking up to 9/11 false maniacs like Obama you'll end--exactly where you belong. Shane Mage The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed. Joe Stack (1956-2010) Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea Party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Paul Buhle? Wonderful. No surprise there, with his penchant for "authentic Americanism." Another fine example of leftist incompetence. Andrew's comments are dead on the mark. - Original Message - From: "Andrew Pollack" Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Again, the deliberate smudging of actual tea partiers and people who answer a poll saying they share the concerns of tea partiers. Is this vagary being introduced on purpose...or for a reason? ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea Party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Again, people are arbitrarily smudging people who say in the polls, for example, that they sympathize with the concerns of the tea partiers and the tea partiers themselves. I'd suspect that I've spent more time talking to the latter than the bulk of the people on this list, and I certainly give my blessing to anyone who wants to waste their time with them. Most are politically retarded and morally blighted...to the point where rationality no longer works well. The most one can hope for is that they will see people on the Left as human beings rather than the moral equivalent of large fetuses who may be morally aborted after-the-fact Personally, I spend most of my time talking to Obama supporters who are disillusioned or becoming disillusioned. It's a different set of problems, but we usually start off on a common ground. Louis is right, of course. Until there's a mass movement (which Code Pink and kindred groups has shown very little real interest in building), this is all still in the realm of hot air.,.. ML Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea Party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == I think Andy makes a good point. These Tea Party folk are nasty. I was handing out single-payer flyers at a Dem sponsored healthcare rally in CT. The Dems organized no marshals and the Tea Party counter demo was so aggressive and confrontational the socialists who attended quickly assembled a marshaling team to create a boundary that divide the rally from the counter protest. These tea party folk were vile thugs and while I may engage in a conversation with rank and file tea party people, I have no interest in building a movement alongside their racist, homophobic, and anti immigrant program. In solidarity, Hutch Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Code Pink extends olive branch to fascist Tea Party
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == In my community (Sussex and Warren Counties of New Jersey) there are people who express sympathies with the Tea Party in our churches, neighborhoods, and workplaces. Most of them have never thought about politics much before. Our antiwar committee has a very strong religious component, and within that context, we interact often with people who express support for the Tea Party movement, but in reality don't really agree with the cynical liars who are leading it. Ron Paul's opposition to the Iraq and Afghan wars presents us with a genuine opportunity to reach out to them and engage them in activity in opposition to the wars. I recognize all the problems with Dr. Paul's politics, but we're not reaching out to him, we're reaching out to people who are listening to him. And we have a persuasive message. Furthermore, I don't agree all the time with the "9/11 truth maniacs," but without these "maniacs" we wouldn't HAVE an antiwar committee in our area. We're able to discuss our differences as friends, neighbors, and collaborators in the peace movement and then get together to organize a vigil or charter a bus to a national demonstration. Building a movement at the grassroots level by definition means getting your hands dirty. And unless we build an antiwar movement from the grassroots upwards, it's not going to mean a damned thing. BTW: I don't give a shred of credence to the 9/11 Commission. Something's being covered up; I don't know that the 9/11 Truthers have the answers (I suspect not), but there's more than "reasonable doubt." Tom On Apr 15, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote: > == > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > == > > > You don't START with the misguided ones who wander into the Tea Party. > You start by expanding the ranks of newly-radicalizing workers and > others, and create a bigger, broader pole of attraction, which > minimizes the attractiveness of the Tea Party. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
