Re: M-TH: Inter-capitalist war
Chris writes: The agenda of "humanitarian imperialism" is an agenda of bourgeois democratic rights and it has a dual character: partly progressive and partly reactionary. In what way progressive? Russ --- from list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: M-TH: Inter-capitalist war
Now there's a novel idea. "George Pennefather" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/04/99 01:41PM Hi Folks, The war in Serbia is essentially an inter-capitalist war between an imperialist alliance and a capitalist state. Given this the war is essentially a war over how exploitation of the working class and the masses is to generally proceed. Consequently revolutionaries and the working class can have no class interest in supporting any side in this war. Opposition must be expressed against NATO, the Serbian regime and the KLA. The only correct position for revolutionaries to adopt is one of supporting the conversion of this war between capitalist states into a war of the working class against all the capitalist powers involved in the war. This position is advanced by revolutionaries of individual countries by exposing the bourgeois role conducted by their respective states. In this way they can promote opposition to the war by opposition to their "own" government and state. Implicit in this political position is the eventual overthrowal of the government and the establishment of a federation of communist communities. Warm regards George Pennefather --- from list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: M-TH: Inter-capitalist war
On Wed, 5 May 1999, Ian Hunt wrote: Chris Burford expresses my view of the conflict in Serbia/Kosovo. I am glad he is able to put systematically and well what I have only had the opportunity to touch on. What political lable this might bring down on me, I do not know, and do not care, Since you agree with Burford's position, then you must understand what he is saying. Maybe you would be so good as to translate Burford's position for us then? Thanks, Andy --- from list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
SV: M-TH: Inter-capitalist war
Chris translating Lenin for George! Lenin's formulations about the defeat of one's own bourgeoisie in the first world war were in a certain context 1) that the overall situation was revolutionary (no longer true after 1923 at the latest) Very cute Chris! However false to the core. In fact in 1914 it was and imperialist war. In 1923 we had a victorious workers state in state power. 2) that the war was for the redivision of the imperialist plunder. Neither applies in this case. Point 1) I do not need to argue further. Point 2) - it is true there is an element of the enlargement of the European Union zone of influence over the whole of eastern Europe. But that process is essentially peaceful and is not the forcible take-over of colonies against their will. Indeed so eager are the countries to join the European Union that they will sign up to join NATO first to get probationary status as it were. So it is not plunder. What? It appears that I have missed something. But East Europe was a process of Internal capitalist counter-revolution supported by imperialism. And in this transitional phase the "peacefulness" must be lied at the door of decades of Stalinist misleadership. But to think that jumping under the NATO umbrella is part of a new world order is ridiculous. In fact the fundamental contradictions between the imperialist powers jockeying for position before the next confrontation is the bottom line of all this. What we are seeing now in NATO is something different from the capitalist military alliance confronting the Soviet Bloc. We are seeing an unrivalled hegemonic military alliance imposing its will on the world, to the extent the world is willing to tolerate it. This is done in the name of the morality of human rights. I believe Jim H has said elsewhere that the next issue of NLR is to be on the theme of "humanitarian imperialism". Wanna bet? In fact all reports say this military alliance is splitting at the seams. What do ya think the German Russian initiative is. Even the right wing media like "Stratfor" have already claimed that Clinton and his pal Blair have lost the war. It is the Germans and Russians who have won! The deal will be a stop to the bombings and and FN occupation of Kosovo with a large Russian contingent.. So bodies of armed men, the core of a world state power, are in formation They are constrained not so much by the military power of any rival, but by the pressure of public opinion which requires them to get sufficient consensus, or at least acquiescence in 19 countries. What a joke. There are bourgeoisie's and their governments that control those armies...All with their *own* interests. The pinnacle of bourgeois democracy is control over the national military.. That is a significant constraint and is one of the reasons why the war has taken the form of a massive bombing campaign against Serbia rather than a ground war focussed on Kosovo. Hence it can paradoxically be presented as both an imperialist war, and a pathetic, disastrous and incompetent war that cannot defend the people whom it claimed to defend. Ridiculous. In fact the air campaign has played into the hands of Germany and not in the least Russia and its own imperial interests. So Blair and Clinton who think they have won the war in fact have helped the Germans break out of their shell for the first time since the last world war. And give the Russians time to consolidate their own capitalist/imperialist regime! But George Pennefather seems to me to have too much of a pat formula with which to allow "revolutionary communists" to congratulate themselves on their moral purity. The point is to actually change the world. And that means making choices in situations in which we would not wish to be. Yeah Chris. Change the world. Who gets the markets and influence in the Balkans. Nothing has changed at all. This is just the imperialist powers preparing the ground for the next conflict. Remember Yalta and how that was surpose to change the world and it was far more based on military occupation of the world then anything we have seen yet. Well it took only fifty years to wrip up Yalta and now the maps are being redrawn again. But it is the same fundamental imperialist powers still doing the drawing in their *own* interests. Minus the SU as a deformed workers state. But capitalist Russia defending its own imperialist pretentions.. As far as George's thesis it is wrong. This is not and imperialist war (yet) but and imperialist attack to destroy and redevide the Balkans after the demise of the Yugoslavian deformed workers state. All the jockeying taking place on the Balkans by the imperialist powers is preparation for the next round. In fact the reason we don't have a big war is that Germany is using Jeltsin (at present) to counter American military domination of the region. They don't want American military presence in the Balkans as much as the Russians. The Germans elect to have
