Re: Transifex and Russian & Italian translations
On Mon, 2015-06-08 at 12:09 +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote: > > I do not want to "go back" to transiflex. If it will be so, I > understand and respect your decision, but I'll not continue updating > mc in Italian. Hi Marco, My ultimate goal is not to force you to use Transifex, but to get the problem solved. The problem as I see it, is that there is you, and there is some mythical Italian translation team on Transifex. It seems that the translations are out of sync, yours is better and more complete, and the work by Transifex team, whatever they've been doing so far was going directly to the waste bin. I think that the latter situation is suboptimal to say the least. I hope you would agree with that. If your position is that you don't want to touch Transifex with a 10 feet pole, and either you commit directly to git, or you won't work on the translation at all, then at very least we should disband the Italian translation team on Transifex, and delete the language from there, don't you think so? This is one of the possible decisions that can be taken... However, I don't understand your arguments as to *why* you don't want to use Transifex. It seems to me, that you have some misconceptions as to how it works in the actuality, and this is why you don't want to use it. Transifex does have a web interface, and associated workflow, but you also have the option to simply use it as a repository, just instead of git pull & commit & push when you are ready with editing & testing your PO-file in whichever way you like, you have to do tx pull & tx push. Unfortunately, I don't have any more time to read your other message attentively today, so I'll try to get back to it and understand what your problem really is later this week. -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
mc clone in C#
Hello, >From github annals: subj, and by whom? https://github.com/migueldeicaza/mc README is an interesting read. The project last updated in 2011, but feels like from last weeks' discussions. Feels timeless. Random quotes: > Many features that were added to Midnight Commander over the years in > retrospect were not very good ideas. ORLY? Nothing but a public condemnation of Gnome's involvement with mc can save your name, Miguel. http://www.softpanorama.org/OFM/Paradigm/Ch04/mc.shtml#MC-gnomegate > Although MC had an hex editor, very few people knew how to activate it > (Open viewer, activate hex mode, hit Edit). I for one didn't. -- Best regards, Paul mailto:pmis...@gmail.com ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Transifex and the manual files
Hi Marco, On Mon, 2015-06-08 at 18:04 +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote: > > I can try to do it. I already use po4a for another project (KiCad). > Before this email I was even thinking to suggest the use of po4a to > this aim. ;-) This would be awesome! > I am not an expert on make/automake/autoconf though so I probably am > going to need a hand in this respect. No problem, I can try to help you to integrate whatever you come up with as time permits. I don't think you'd need to mess with autostuff though. As a first approximation, I suppose the output could be two shell scripts: - one would take the "reference" (English) man page template (man.x.in), and convert it to a pot-file using the po4a tool with correct settings - another one would take the translated po-file, and convert it back into a man.x.in file, which would be suitable to generate the help files On top of that we can build some automation to synchronize them back and forth with Transifex, but this can come later. The essential, as I understood is that there is some problem with po4a related to roff formatting such that man -> po -> man files currently can't be used with the help generator. Do you already have an account on Transifex? If yes, I can tell you the commands to fetch all the translated files so far, so that you can experiment with real stuff. > I'll do some experiments in these days and post here the results... No hurry... -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Transifex and Russian & Italian translations
On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 04:28:06PM +0200, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 12:09:50PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 07, 2015 at 09:29:01PM +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > > > Otherwise, shall we at least somehow block people from using Transifex > > > for the languages that are being committed directly to the repository? I > > > do not like the current situation, because it seems that people doing > > > stuff on Transifex are not aware of what's going on the git repository > > > and vice versa. I think it's a really bad scenario when people invest > > > time in doing translations, and their work is just discarded. > > > > > I have always keeped mc translations in sync in many years. I think that > > transiflex is a great tool for missing or poor translations. If there is > > someone (like me) that check periodically translations for completless > > and for behaviour in the "live" program (translate -> compile -> install > > -> test -> commit) I think that is invaluable. > > > > I do not want to "go back" to transiflex. If it will be so, I understand > > and respect your decision, but I'll not continue updating mc in Italian. > > > this is not helpful. what *exactly* is it that makes transifex an > obstacle for you? 1) the lack of / delay of feedback. I have posted some translation strings on Transifex. Now when those strings will be committed exactly? If I have some spare time to do some work on mc I rather prefer to test it right now and not waiting for a day or two for Transifex update when probably I will _not_ have time to test it. 2) not all translations are handled by Transifex right now and I want to contribute in this regard despite of Transifex (lack of) support. See my other mail. 3) translation of menu entries is always a tricky matter due to the space constrictions that the terminal nature of mc impose on translators. This absolutely need immediate test on surce *before* committing any change. 4) Hot keys translations is another problem that mc is particularly susceptible. You have to make sure that hotkeys do not clash when you have to change hotkey due to the lack of a particular letter in your translation. This too need immediate test on surce *before* committing any change. > is it not possible to simply use it as a "buffer" > between the local and the remote repository? Simply not. I am very sorry for this. See above. > is this a setup problem or is it inherent in how tfx works? The second. I think that when there is the total lack of a language translation, tfx could be helpful since it provide and easy way to mass translate a program/document. But the translation *must* be tested/checked and probably corrected by someone during compile time. I am not against to leave tfx for other languages but if a particular language actually *have* enough manpower to maintain its translation at a good level (and ask around, the Italian translation was good), then I think it is better to leave it as it is, through direct git write access (thanks to the GOD of DCVS for the revert command ;-) or through reviewable git patches. Regards, -- Marco Ciampa I know a joke about UDP, but you might not get it. ++ | GNU/Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Transifex and the manual files
On Sun, Jun 07, 2015 at 09:46:03PM +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > Hi, > > I have found out, that the manual files that are offered for translation > on Transifex are basically an abandoned experiment by Slava. This makes > me very sad, because currently nobody knows that they are not actually > useful, and quite some people have put their time into translating them. > > The deal was that Slava wanted to set up translation using the po4a > tool, but somehow he realized that it breaks roff formatting on which > the help system generator relies during po -> man conversion, and, as a > result, the help files can't be generated from these manual pages. > > At the moment, I have stopped the Transifex interface from accepting > translations for these resources until someone can figure out how to set > up a working man -> po -> man conversion cycle. > > Are there any volunteers to look into that? Maybe I should make an > announcement via the Transifex system as well. I can try to do it. I already use po4a for another project (KiCad). Before this email I was even thinking to suggest the use of po4a to this aim. ;-) I am not an expert on make/automake/autoconf though so I probably am going to need a hand in this respect. I'll do some experiments in these days and post here the results... Regards, -- Marco Ciampa I know a joke about UDP, but you might not get it. ++ | GNU/Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Transifex and Russian & Italian translations
On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 12:09:50PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote: > On Sun, Jun 07, 2015 at 09:29:01PM +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > > Otherwise, shall we at least somehow block people from using Transifex > > for the languages that are being committed directly to the repository? I > > do not like the current situation, because it seems that people doing > > stuff on Transifex are not aware of what's going on the git repository > > and vice versa. I think it's a really bad scenario when people invest > > time in doing translations, and their work is just discarded. > > > I have always keeped mc translations in sync in many years. I think that > transiflex is a great tool for missing or poor translations. If there is > someone (like me) that check periodically translations for completless > and for behaviour in the "live" program (translate -> compile -> install > -> test -> commit) I think that is invaluable. > > I do not want to "go back" to transiflex. If it will be so, I understand > and respect your decision, but I'll not continue updating mc in Italian. > this is not helpful. what *exactly* is it that makes transifex an obstacle for you? is it not possible to simply use it as a "buffer" between the local and the remote repository? is this a setup problem or is it inherent in how tfx works? ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Transifex and Russian & Italian translations
On Sun, Jun 07, 2015 at 09:29:01PM +0200, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote: > Hi, > > I have found out that two files "ru.po" and "it.po" out of several > dozens are excluded from synchronization with Transifex. > > 1) I understand that Russian translation was lately done directly in the > repository by Andrew, and he said that he was manually uploading these > updates to Transfixes. I have checked the current state, and the > Transifex version was behind the one in the repo; I have fixed this. > > 2) In what concerns the Italian one, I understood from Slava that the > maintainer (Marco Ciampa) didn't want to use Transifex for some reason. > I checked it and it seems that it is more complete in the repository, as > compared to Transifex. Now, the curious part is that I can see that it > has been updated by Piotr Drąg rather recently. > > Could we please move EVERYTHING to Transifex? It does have a command > line client, which is very easy to use and allows to upload & download > translations literally with two commands (tx pull and tx push), if one > doesn't want to use the web interface. I'm happy to try to help with > that if anyone really needs help; I've just tried it, and it's no big > deal at all. > > Otherwise, shall we at least somehow block people from using Transifex > for the languages that are being committed directly to the repository? I > do not like the current situation, because it seems that people doing > stuff on Transifex are not aware of what's going on the git repository > and vice versa. I think it's a really bad scenario when people invest > time in doing translations, and their work is just discarded. > > Any comments? I have always keeped mc translations in sync in many years. I think that transiflex is a great tool for missing or poor translations. If there is someone (like me) that check periodically translations for completless and for behaviour in the "live" program (translate -> compile -> install -> test -> commit) I think that is invaluable. I do not want to "go back" to transiflex. If it will be so, I understand and respect your decision, but I'll not continue updating mc in Italian. bye -- Marco Ciampa I know a joke about UDP, but you might not get it. ++ | GNU/Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ mc-devel mailing list https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
