Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com schrieb: The Midnight Commander development community is small and it is in my opinion a step backwards to fragment it at this point. Funny that you mention this, as it was *YOU* who forced another fork ;-o cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
* Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com schrieb: I agree with Pavel here. mc-dev has been for the most part dormant, and some terrible decisions (like that whole mhl fiasco) could have been avoided. I wouldn't call it fascio, rather a good lection that even the OSS world isn't free of people who press quasi-religous cruft and their own vanity over technical issues and resist against any attempt for a rational discussion. For a bunch of weeks we've formed a new, heavily motivated team, fixed a lot of ancient bugs, added lots of good patches floating around on other places for years and were working on several interesting features. In these few weeks we had a really active and motivated community with an very open and friendly climate. It was *YOU* destroyed that by climbing out of your deep dark tomb and behaving like the old king coming back which everyone has to submit to. It was you caused a lot of wasting resources (not just computer's but also human's) for your personal crusade against a lot of things we've done so far, without even listening to reasons why we did this, not because you had the slightest technical argument, but just because it didn't happen under your command. And that is exactly the reason why I abondened and created my own fork (*1) - as long as you are ruling here, I don't see the slightest bit of common ground. (and BTW, this was one of the major reasons why I've removed all my branches from mc.o git: I dont support dictators). cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com schrieb: Hi, Your approach to development is my way or the high way. The consensus is that glib should stay, and even your concern about using glib was addressed by pointing you to eglib and I even ported mc and posted a patch to use eglib. First of all, it's not about technical reasons for glib, it's all about your glib fetishism, it's about having a hammer and then try to declare evrything as a nail to get more use for that hammer. BTW: * you totally ignored the user's request for having a glib-free MC, * you totally ignored that lots of the mhl-stuff had valid reasons, even *WITH* glib * you totally ignored that some glib functions have issues to be worked around * you totally ignored recommendation for defering this decision until eglib becomes production-ready * you totally ignored that lots of my changes you enforced your servants to revert, have *NOTHING* to do with mhl at all. You even didn't listen to my arguments. When you came out of your deep dark tomb, your first action was to declare that mhl must die. That was an declaration of war. Don't be pissed when somebody shoots back. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
* Enrico Weigelt weig...@metux.de schrieb: oh, forgot the link ;-o *1) git://git.metux.de/free-mc.git cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, It was *YOU* destroyed that by climbing out of your deep dark tomb and behaving like the old king coming back which everyone has to submit to. It was you caused a lot of wasting resources (not just computer's but also human's) for your personal crusade against a lot of things we've done so far, without even listening to reasons why we did this, not because you had the slightest technical argument, but just because it didn't happen under your command. You are making a soap opera out of my only objection, which was the dropping of glib under poor rationale. I have not opposed any other patch, I have merely provided some feedback on some patches that required tuning. And that is exactly the reason why I abondened and created my own fork (*1) - as long as you are ruling here, I don't see the slightest bit of common ground. (and BTW, this was one of the major reasons why I've removed all my branches from mc.o git: I dont support dictators). Feel free to post the logs. You basically threw a tantrum when things did not go the way you wanted. Miguel. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, You went light on the details, other than saying 'you totally' repeatedly. * you totally ignored recommendation for defering this decision until eglib becomes production-ready It is very simple. The majority of people to not have a problem with glib, and the size is not an issue. You claim this is a problem for embedded systems. So in your mind it is better to change all the code, introduce new bugs, introduce regressions, and introduce yet another poorly supported, debugged and documented API for this goal. So I proposed that you use eglib which is a lightweight version of glib. The rest of the community should not be held hostage to your single needs. Your reason for not accepting eglib over the production-ready does not hold any merits, considering that eglib has actually been used in various project in *production* compared to mhl which was merely an atrocious hack on a branch. production ready is and was merely an excuse to stall reverting the code. * you totally ignored that lots of my changes you enforced your servants to revert, have *NOTHING* to do with mhl at all. I have no problems with any of the other changes, and as far as we discussed, there is no problem in keeping that code around. I will be more than happy to keep this code. You even didn't listen to my arguments. When you came out of your deep dark tomb, your first action was to declare that mhl must die. That was an declaration of war. Don't be pissed when somebody shoots back. Well, some of us were not in a position to participate at the time. MHL was a poor decision, and there is really no point in debating that. I am interested in moving forward. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
*1) git://git.metux.de/free-mc.git Thanks for the link. I guess we can go and pick any good changes from there and merge them into mc now. Miguel. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Pavel Tsekov ptse...@gmx.net wrote: You might not be aware but I am (still) one of the two official MC maintainers. De jure, maybe you are. De facto, the project is an orphan. How many more times do I need to submit my patches to get your attention? How many millennia do we need to wait to get UTF-8 support? Slava, how can I start committing fixes to devel branch of your effort? Basically, I need a mini-HOWTO: 1. What source control system is in use? (In case reader is not familiar with one, giove an URL to the doc, and also mention three most needed commands how to check out the tree?, How to update checked-out tree? and how to commit local changes to the tree? 2. What mailing list do I need to use for posting patches prior to applying them to the tree? 3. Do I need to get approval from someone (as a reply on that list?), and can I apply the patch after that (IOW: do I have write access?), or do I need to hand the patch to someone else? Regarding (3). MC project is in such sorry state now, it can't possibly become worse if someone will start working on it. At worst, the effort can be just dropped, if the set of people with write access will prove incapable of going decent work, and we will be back at 4.6.2 (IIRC). So let's not get busy erecting overly restrictive rules regarding development, WE BADLY NEED DEVELOPMENT TO HAPPEN. Regarding stable and devel branches, yes, this is a usual practice for projects of moderate size. Let's do it that way. Say, stable will have 4.7.0, 4.7.1, 4.7.2 releases planned with moderately simple fixes only, and devel will evolve for some time to create new stable 4.8.x branch sometime in the future. We need to stop talking about great plans and start coding. Give me a devel branch to play with! :) :) :) -- vda ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello Denys, Monday, February 16, 2009, 3:15:45 PM, you wrote: On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Pavel Tsekov ptse...@gmx.net wrote: You might not be aware but I am (still) one of the two official MC maintainers. De jure, maybe you are. De facto, the project is an orphan. How many more times do I need to submit my patches to get your attention? If I am not mistaken most of your patches were incomplete and you wouldn't bother to fix them. I see how comfortable is to be on the right side at the right time for people like yourself. You just hope to get your patch inside the codebase without caring about its quality. How many millennia do we need to wait to get UTF-8 support? As much as it is needed do be done properly. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Pavel Tsekov ptse...@gmx.net wrote: Hello Denys, Monday, February 16, 2009, 3:15:45 PM, you wrote: On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Pavel Tsekov ptse...@gmx.net wrote: You might not be aware but I am (still) one of the two official MC maintainers. De jure, maybe you are. De facto, the project is an orphan. How many more times do I need to submit my patches to get your attention? If I am not mistaken most of your patches were incomplete and you wouldn't bother to fix them. Oh really. I just checked. http://mlblog.osdir.com/gnome.apps.mc.general/2004-10/index.shtml http://www.mail-archive.com/mc-devel@gnome.org/msg05103.html 24/10/2004 - I posted the patch for the 1st time sometime later - I added it to bug database as well 07/11/2005 - patch was rediscovered and an active discussion started (which means there was more than one reply per year) 12/08/2006 - patch got applied By this time, of course, I didn't track the fate of the patch. THREE YEARS for a teensy patch like this???!! http://mlblog.osdir.com/gnome.apps.mc.general/2004-10/txt4mW4MB9qlO.txt You are glacial. Another patch, which I posted more than once, and this one is not applied: http://www.mail-archive.com/mc-devel@gnome.org/msg05526.html You didn't even have any objections. You just dropped the ball. You know, I have more interesting things to do in this life than spending three more years getting it applied. Especially that it is a bit bigger, who knows, maybe I'm being optimistic about three years here... -- vda ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
Hi Denys, Would you please cool down a little bit? Don't you think we can resolve this peacefully w/o further mutual accusations, don't we? I think that both parties will benefit from this... It's crystal clear that current development model desperately needs a change. But Pavel has some valid points too. Let's cooperate. When I saw Pavel Roskin gone it made me sad. We owe him a lot. Behaving like Enrico won't help to get the problems solved but rather make them unsolvable. OK? Thank you for your understanding. -- Sincerely yours, Yury V. Zaytsev ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, It is very common in every project I participate to use different mailing list for these different goals: users, developer discussion, bug tracking and commits. It makes it easier to filter, and it allows for people that care about one particular area to focus on that area. If you want all the mail mixed up, you have the choice of doing that in your email program, but there is no need to force other people into your development model. Having multiple lists, one per task makes it so that people can opt-in into what they want instead of having to opt-out with complicated rules that they have to updated every once in a while. Miguel. On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Oswald Buddenhagen wrote: On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 05:43:55PM +0100, Patrick Winnertz wrote: Well.. I would like to have some place to discuss everything. of course. If this is too much it would be worth to move this to a separate mailinglist. yes - *if*. but that's not going to be the case. i cannot imagine that the additional effort resulting from fragmenting the communication channels even more would be in any way justified. but that's not my decision anyway ... ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, I am not really unavailable. In fact if someone bothered to ping me personally I would have noticed immediately. The list traffic was stalled for quite some time and I haven't been reading it on a regular basis for a while so I missed the interesting part. I agree with Pavel here. mc-dev has been for the most part dormant, and some terrible decisions (like that whole mhl fiasco) could have been avoided. Anyway, I am making making my way trough the mailing list volume for the last two months. I would not like to comment before I have gone trough all threads but some threads caught my attention already - search for mhl Does it feel familiar, is it what MC really needs ? Is this someone's excercise ? Luckily that mhl thing got nuked. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Monday 16 February 2009 20:17, Pavel Tsekov wrote: So you want to bitch... I really cannot help you with that. How much did I bitch in these years while the patch was lying around? URL please. In case you did not notice, I want to code. I want to help MC to improve and sligtly more than glacial pace. If enough people complained that you patch wasn't included in the tree I guess it would have been included. Look at the stats of the list. They are pitiful. 2008-November: [ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 28226 bytes ] 2008-October: [ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 22216 bytes ] 2008-September:[ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 19325 bytes ] 2008-August: [ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 32094 bytes ] 2008-July: [ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 35622 bytes ] 2008-June: [ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 95316 bytes ] 2008-May: [ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 6232 bytes ] 2008-April:[ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 8738 bytes ] 2008-March:[ Thread ] [ Date ] [ Author ] [ Gzip'd Text 62349 bytes ] April 2008. Whole SIX mails during a month? October. Twelve mails. Yeah. That's the spark of activity. Most people *ignored your list* as nothing was happening here. Me included. Another patch, which I posted more than once, and this one is not applied: http://www.mail-archive.com/mc-devel@gnome.org/msg05526.html You didn't even have any objections. You just dropped the ball. I made an observation and you failed to follow up. I wonder how many users of my project I would piss off with attitudes like that. Obviously I must have red the patch and the code since I made that observation. I spent some of my time on it but you wouldn't care to explain why the patch is necessary. Read my mail again. I did explain how to see the bug in action, it's quite trivial. Sorry - it doesn't work like that. We'll see. -- vda ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 08:20:29PM +0200, Pavel Tsekov wrote: You don't become a project member and developer by just waiting for the right moment, appearing on the scene and taking over of everything. would you bet? you may be the best maintainer on earth (you aren't, but wth), but by being unavailable you marginalize your project and thus yourself. so while the new ones might not be official maintainers, they are de-facto maintainers. those who do the work decide, even if my hair stands on end occasionally. to the new ones: get the trac vs. the mailinglist thing sorted. the current situation practically excludes everyone who cannot be bothered to poll your trac often enough, which basically is everyone who has some real experience (and thus has a day job, etc.). ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hey, to the new ones: get the trac vs. the mailinglist thing sorted. the current situation practically excludes everyone who cannot be bothered to poll your trac often enough, which basically is everyone who has some real experience (and thus has a day job, etc.). The plan is to move the trac mails together with git commit messages to an own mailinglist. Greetings Winnie ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 04:38:31PM +0100, Patrick Winnertz wrote: to the new ones: get the trac vs. the mailinglist thing sorted. The plan is to move the trac mails together with git commit messages to an own mailinglist. but you want to continue using mc-devel as well? i don't think the size of the mc project justifies this in any way. even more so that after this initial flurry of activity things will most probably quiet down again (even if this team proves to have a longer half-life period than previous initiatives). ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Am Samstag 14 Februar 2009 17:21:22 schrieb Oswald Buddenhagen: On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 04:38:31PM +0100, Patrick Winnertz wrote: to the new ones: get the trac vs. the mailinglist thing sorted. The plan is to move the trac mails together with git commit messages to an own mailinglist. but you want to continue using mc-devel as well? i don't think the size of the mc project justifies this in any way. Well.. I would like to have some place to discuss everything. Furthermore it should be possible to get notified about important new commits without looking into the git (therefore commit messages when commiting to certain branches). At last it should be possible to track the status of tickets via email as it was on savannah. There was in the first time very much activity therefore very much mails from trac. If this is too much it would be worth to move this to a separate mailinglist. even more so that after this initial flurry of activity things will most probably quiet down again (even if this team proves to have a longer half-life period than previous initiatives). I hope so too. Greetings Winnie -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 05:43:55PM +0100, Patrick Winnertz wrote: Well.. I would like to have some place to discuss everything. of course. If this is too much it would be worth to move this to a separate mailinglist. yes - *if*. but that's not going to be the case. i cannot imagine that the additional effort resulting from fragmenting the communication channels even more would be in any way justified. but that's not my decision anyway ... ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re[2]: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello Oswald, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 4:47:44 PM, you wrote: On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 08:20:29PM +0200, Pavel Tsekov wrote: You don't become a project member and developer by just waiting for the right moment, appearing on the scene and taking over of everything. would you bet? Yes, I would. I have known Patrick for quite some time and past communication with him makes me pretty sure that the odds are on my side. Would you bet to the opposite ? you may be the best maintainer on earth (you aren't, but wth), but by being unavailable you marginalize your project and thus yourself. so while the new ones might not be official maintainers, they are de-facto maintainers. those who do the work decide, even if my hair stands on end occasionally. I am not really unavailable. In fact if someone bothered to ping me personally I would have noticed immediately. The list traffic was stalled for quite some time and I haven't been reading it on a regular basis for a while so I missed the interesting part. Anyway, I am making making my way trough the mailing list volume for the last two months. I would not like to comment before I have gone trough all threads but some threads caught my attention already - search for mhl Does it feel familiar, is it what MC really needs ? Is this someone's excercise ? Best regards, Pavel Tsekov ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello Slava, You might not be aware but I am (still) one of the two official MC maintainers. Thursday, December 18, 2008, 2:23:07 AM, you wrote: Hello, dear developers! It is no secret that the recent console manager Midnight Commander stopped in its development. We do not know the reasons why this is happening, but we badly want to see its further development. In fact, the Midnight Commander is developing further, but distributions in the form of patches, for each distribution its own set of patches. In fact, there are many versions of modern MS for each distribution. Please, cool down a bit. The various distributions usually have a set of patches to MC but the most important one is the UTF-8 patch. The rest are usually of much lesser interest. Our team was formed recently, we have only just begun working on Midnight Commander, we have yet to be established, the relationship within the team have formed. But we are striving to become a team, which will be beneficial to all fans MC (a lot of them). Already, we have created assembly, which could satisfy both users of Debian/Ubuntu, FreeBSD and Gentoo, and users of Red Hat Linux distributions, Open Suse, MandRiva etc. You may have to apologize already issued release mc-4.6.3 (actually, we do not have the right to publish under that name). It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.. :) You should have done it the proper way by trying to communicate your changes with official MC instead of making a yet another fork. You team has just formed and no one knows for how long it will last, nor what your aims are. Many like you have appeared in the past and soon lost interest in their own creation. If you are unaware of that fact you might want to check the archives. We are a young team, we ask that you permit the continued development of Midnight Commander it was under this name. Also, please refer to us the files CVS repository for the preservation of history and development of the names of all people, ever participated in the development mc. We understand that this may be shocking request, but nevertheless, we hope to receive any response - if the answer is we simply will Forque, which we hope will develop further. We want to see MC very comfortable and pleasant, not as it is now. Please, try to follow the traditional way of doing things. If you really want to become a MC developer, be so kind, to do it the proper way which means post your changes to the mailing list, discuss issues and so on. You don't become a project member and developer by just waiting for the right moment, appearing on the scene and taking over of everything. Best regards, Pavel Tsekov ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, I agree with the sentiments expressed by Pavel Tsekov. If you guys have collected a new set of patches to Midnight Commander, let us get those patches posted to the tracking software in midnight-commander.org and discuss those changes as a community. Pavel is right that many forks have been created over the years, probably about a dozen, and either the efforts have died in the worst cases, or in the better cases, we managed to integrate the code back into the main repository. The Midnight Commander development community is small and it is in my opinion a step backwards to fragment it at this point. Miguel. Hello Slava, You might not be aware but I am (still) one of the two official MC maintainers. Thursday, December 18, 2008, 2:23:07 AM, you wrote: Hello, dear developers! It is no secret that the recent console manager Midnight Commander stopped in its development. We do not know the reasons why this is happening, but we badly want to see its further development. In fact, the Midnight Commander is developing further, but distributions in the form of patches, for each distribution its own set of patches. In fact, there are many versions of modern MS for each distribution. Please, cool down a bit. The various distributions usually have a set of patches to MC but the most important one is the UTF-8 patch. The rest are usually of much lesser interest. Our team was formed recently, we have only just begun working on Midnight Commander, we have yet to be established, the relationship within the team have formed. But we are striving to become a team, which will be beneficial to all fans MC (a lot of them). Already, we have created assembly, which could satisfy both users of Debian/Ubuntu, FreeBSD and Gentoo, and users of Red Hat Linux distributions, Open Suse, MandRiva etc. You may have to apologize already issued release mc-4.6.3 (actually, we do not have the right to publish under that name). It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.. :) You should have done it the proper way by trying to communicate your changes with official MC instead of making a yet another fork. You team has just formed and no one knows for how long it will last, nor what your aims are. Many like you have appeared in the past and soon lost interest in their own creation. If you are unaware of that fact you might want to check the archives. We are a young team, we ask that you permit the continued development of Midnight Commander it was under this name. Also, please refer to us the files CVS repository for the preservation of history and development of the names of all people, ever participated in the development mc. We understand that this may be shocking request, but nevertheless, we hope to receive any response - if the answer is we simply will Forque, which we hope will develop further. We want to see MC very comfortable and pleasant, not as it is now. Please, try to follow the traditional way of doing things. If you really want to become a MC developer, be so kind, to do it the proper way which means post your changes to the mailing list, discuss issues and so on. You don't become a project member and developer by just waiting for the right moment, appearing on the scene and taking over of everything. Best regards, Pavel Tsekov ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Slava Zanko slavaza...@gmail.com schrieb: Hi, you meant: mcvfs = model ? No. model = any data source. mcvfs - one of sources for mc. Which other datasources do you have in mind ? yeah, even sockets: cat tcp://somehost:port/ (I'll add this to libmvfs in the next days ...) Cool. I'm waiting now this patch. :) Hmm, will take some time ... you can check out the open libmvfs branches (svn://anonymous:anonym...@nibiru.metux.de/public/libmvfs/) to see what's coming. Primary libmvfs-mcvfs bridging is already done in mc-9p branch (svn://nibiru.metux.de/public/mc-9p/), all it takes now is adding a new vfs_class structure per libmvfs-supported fs :) (perhaps we could invent some more automatic mapping someday ?) certain certain DE's ? Well, perhaps it would be even better to just directly support well-known DE's shortcut files ? But if file will open by DE, mc don't handle data from 'shorcut'. No, I meant, mc shall be able to understand certain DE's shortcut files and do the right things. For example, if the shortcut points to some ftp:// url, it just cd's to this url and let's ftpfs do the dirty work. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Slava Zanko slavaza...@gmail.com schrieb: Hi, Is it a good idea to make git-branch Stable based on 4.6.1 and git-branch Current based of the current cvs-code (4.6.2-pre1)? I'd really suggest forking the stable tree on 4.6.1 release and let it be the rc for 4.6.2, then step by step merge in all the patches/branches floating around the net. And, of course, will apply all accepted the patches to the branch of Current. Then a lot of people will be able to test patches (even those who do not know how to apply the patches). We'd rather should call that tree testing, IMHO ;-o cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Am Montag 29 Dezember 2008 18:33:44 schrieb Miguel de Icaza: Hellom IMHO we should start with the latest stable release (4.6.1 ?) and apply all the vendor/distro patches floating around step by step (*1). Once that's done, we should make a new official release very soon. I agree with this approach, we should start by reviewing those patches as well, as not every distro patch in packages is suitable for upstream inclusion. I suggest that the patches are posted to the list, in a way similar to other projects so the patches can be peer-reviewed and discussed before they go into the tree. Miguel +1 ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
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Hash: SHA1
Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Slava Zanko slavaza...@gmail.com schrieb:
Hi,
huh, I'm not sure whether mvc fits in here.
mcvfs - VIEW; core (signal handling, User events etc) - CONTROLLER,
slang,mcslang,ncurses - VIEWs.. Why not? :)
you meant: mcvfs = model ?
No. model = any data source. mcvfs - one of sources for mc.
I think, it is very early to discuss. We need to start their work,
rather than drown in the discussions. :)
Well, if we say everything's a file and the model is the vfs
(including things like search results represented as filesystem),
we could make some steps in this direction :)
Yep, everything is a file. Network connects - files too. :)
yeah, even sockets:
cat tcp://somehost:port/
(I'll add this to libmvfs in the next days ...)
Cool. I'm waiting now this patch. :)
For example:
$ cat ~/secret/path/to/my-one-of-many-many-server.mcvfs-ftp
host: xxx.xxx.xx
port: 12345
user:
passwd:
passv: 1
...
By pressing 'Enter' to the *.mcvfs-ftp file (via mc.ext) ftp session
will establish... Is this bad think?
hmm, you suggest something like we know as desktop shortcuts from
May be yes, shorcuts...
certain certain DE's ? Well, perhaps it would be even better to just
directly support well-known DE's shortcut files ?
But if file will open by DE, mc don't handle data from 'shorcut'. If mc
open 'shotcut' itself, then for example, pressing 'Enter' on *.mcvfs-ftp
will display in active panel of mc content of remote ftp-server ('cat
*.mcvfs-ftp' may be display content too ;) )
Treat all 'shorcuts' makes no sense - it's set up through mc.ext if
needed. I am talking about support in the file mc.ext like this, for
example:
shell/.mcvfs-ftp
Open=mcvfs:ftp
shell/.mcvfs-dav
Open=mcvfs:dav
shell/.mcvfs-ssh
Open=mcvfs:ssh
Or simular.
But it is very early to discuss too, IMHO. We can dream now, but a
little... ;)
snip
some bash support fixups
(http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00062.html)
Patch already applied, but not in official branch - in our mc-4.6.3 :)
Patches from our branch will transfer to an oficial branch.
What happened to 4.6.2 ?
There mc-4.6.3 - is a invalid version (Russian fork). As right, we had
to change name (mc+, for example). Sorry. :(
BTW, after applying all gathehing patches, we can assign version
4.7.0-pre1 ;)
Because a lot of changes compared to the current 4.6.2-pre1...
hmm, what major changes do you have in mind ?
First, may will be add UTF-8 support; may will be apply other patches,
stabilized in various distributions.
Second, there mc-4.6.3... people will be at a loss :(
WBR, Slavaz.
P.S. To all: With the passing Christmas :)
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Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hellom IMHO we should start with the latest stable release (4.6.1 ?) and apply all the vendor/distro patches floating around step by step (*1). Once that's done, we should make a new official release very soon. I agree with this approach, we should start by reviewing those patches as well, as not every distro patch in packages is suitable for upstream inclusion. I suggest that the patches are posted to the list, in a way similar to other projects so the patches can be peer-reviewed and discussed before they go into the tree. Miguel ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 12:33:44PM -0500, Miguel de Icaza wrote: Hellom IMHO we should start with the latest stable release (4.6.1 ?) and apply all the vendor/distro patches floating around step by step (*1). Once that's done, we should make a new official release very soon. I agree with this approach, we should start by reviewing those patches as well, as not every distro patch in packages is suitable for upstream inclusion. I suggest that the patches are posted to the list, in a way similar to other projects so the patches can be peer-reviewed and discussed before they go into the tree. Miguel +1 -- Marco Ciampa ++ | Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Roland Illig roland.il...@gmx.de schrieb: Hi, I'd like to. If there is some more action in mc development (like in 2005, when it was great fun), I'm definitely willing to invest some time into it. :) Maybe we even get all the different UTF-8 patches incorporated into mc. If that's possible without #ifdef's in each and every file, I'd like to work on it. Great :) Perhaps, if you've already have an trac account, we could assign all utf8-related bugs to you. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Enrico Weigelt wrote: huh, I'm not sure whether mvc fits in here. mcvfs - VIEW; core (signal handling, User events etc) - CONTROLLER, slang,mcslang,ncurses - VIEWs.. Why not? :) Well, if we say everything's a file and the model is the vfs (including things like search results represented as filesystem), we could make some steps in this direction :) Yep, everything is a file. Network connects - files too. :) For example: $ cat ~/secret/path/to/my-one-of-many-many-server.mcvfs-ftp host: xxx.xxx.xx port: 12345 user: passwd: passv: 1 ... By pressing 'Enter' to the *.mcvfs-ftp file (via mc.ext) ftp session will establish... Is this bad think? Okay. I've sent out all gentoo patches so far, they're not too many. But for the future it would be cool to have the upload process done automatically - with a local command line would be even better. 7zip support (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00061.html) Ticket #92 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/92) some bash support fixups (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00062.html) Patch already applied, but not in official branch - in our mc-4.6.3 :) Patches from our branch will transfer to an oficial branch. Adds gentoo ebuild file syntax definition (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00063.html) Patch already applied in 4.6.3 cons.saver: non-blocking console (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00064.html) Ticket #93 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/93) Some fixups for large file support (64bit sizes) on 32bit systems (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00065.html) Ticket #94 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/94) find file fixups (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00066.html) Ticket #95 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/95) segfault-on-invalid-mtime fix (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00067.html) Ticket #96 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/96) charset-locale-alias (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00068.html) Ticket #97 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/97) All your published patches now processed. BTW, after applying all gathehing patches, we can assign version 4.7.0-pre1 ;) Because a lot of changes compared to the current 4.6.2-pre1... WBR, Slavaz. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklXb2QACgkQb3oGR6aVLppyUwCeKtAtPBhx+AEQIoqgkE1s0Tne Nr0Anj4XJdig8+STVkN3YK5cdfLqH5sw =ejav -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Slava Zanko slavaza...@gmail.com schrieb: Hi, huh, I'm not sure whether mvc fits in here. mcvfs - VIEW; core (signal handling, User events etc) - CONTROLLER, slang,mcslang,ncurses - VIEWs.. Why not? :) you meant: mcvfs = model ? Well, if we say everything's a file and the model is the vfs (including things like search results represented as filesystem), we could make some steps in this direction :) Yep, everything is a file. Network connects - files too. :) yeah, even sockets: cat tcp://somehost:port/ (I'll add this to libmvfs in the next days ...) For example: $ cat ~/secret/path/to/my-one-of-many-many-server.mcvfs-ftp host: xxx.xxx.xx port: 12345 user: passwd: passv: 1 ... By pressing 'Enter' to the *.mcvfs-ftp file (via mc.ext) ftp session will establish... Is this bad think? hmm, you suggest something like we know as desktop shortcuts from certain certain DE's ? Well, perhaps it would be even better to just directly support well-known DE's shortcut files ? snip some bash support fixups (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00062.html) Patch already applied, but not in official branch - in our mc-4.6.3 :) Patches from our branch will transfer to an oficial branch. What happened to 4.6.2 ? segfault-on-invalid-mtime fix (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/mc-devel/2008-December/msg00067.html) Ticket #96 (http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/96) Quite critical, should really go to the next release (4.6.2 ?) All your published patches now processed. Thx! BTW, after applying all gathehing patches, we can assign version 4.7.0-pre1 ;) Because a lot of changes compared to the current 4.6.2-pre1... hmm, what major changes do you have in mind ? cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Enrico Weigelt wrote: I propose to establish two branches: stable and current (in git, of course). Stable branch will contain all founded patches (Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo,...), new ideas and features. The stable branch will provide the solutions that were tested in the current tree. The stable branch will lag behind in development, but will be secure and stable (for example, good for RHEL/CentOS, SLES, etc). This scheme would not hinder the development of mc, and at the same time will allow a stable release. ACK. The stable branch should be what goes into public release. Everyone who's not actively developing on mc (even those who make small, eventually distro-specific fixes) should exclusively base on that. Yes. On the other hand current is what's been finished and tested by the subsystem devs. So everyone who likes to develop on mc can use it for testing. Yes. Stable policy: * get in fixes fast and do minor releases for them frequently (so that distros don't have to maintain their own fixes) Absolutly yes. Maintainers of distros should not include any patches of security in packages that are based on the stable branch. If any patch of security or stability is included into package (not in repro) - our work is a bad. * be very careful about adding new features * breaks should be prevented as much as possible * Patches of security and stability can be transferred from the current branch to the stable branch Current policy: * get in everything that's tested/discussed by the devs for further testing * prepare approved patches for getting into stable. * Each patch, which will be transported in stable branch, will be discussed in the mailing list... or at the forum if it will ever created Subprojects (eg. translation, vfs, ...) should have their own trees and submit patches (either against stable or current) to the list for further discussion. Now for the role play: * we need some people resposible for the stable and the current tree, who have full write access - they have to decide (on discussion in the list) what patches to get in and take care of the tree wont be broken * bug wranglers should be the ones who look over new bugs, eventually give some first-aid, fixup naming and bounce them to the right people First of all we need to change the attitude towards visitors. Not all visitors to the professionals in the programming. Not everything could be properly explain what they want. We must be more open and friendly. Then the project will evolve. Because it's not a project (and people) for the developers - the project (and developers) for people who enjoy mc. IMHO :) * suggested sub-projects: - core it CONTROLLER? - vfs - vfs (mcvfs-fs, mcvfs-smb, mcvfs-ssh, mcvfs-ftp, mcvfs-dav, mcvfs-... ) it's MODELs - locale - build-/release engineering - mcslang - it VIEW(s?) - mcglib? - it part of LIB? - mcgettext (may be part of locale) - it VIEW(s?) As for the Russian issue: we devs should really agree on one well-spoken language, English. Those who're not yet capable of speaking English, could be proxied by others. That speaking of *development* - end user support is an different issue. Between developers one language: English (because Esperanto don't all know... ;) BTW, It would be a good idea that the world learned Esperanto in schools... IMHO :) ). Maybe we all should start learning Interlac ;-O :) *1: I'm currently in the process of reviewing Gentoo's patches and sending them to the list. It's good. All existing patches are to gather in one place. BTW, look, please, http://www.midnight-commander.org I think that this URL will be the main location for bugreports... hmm, should I upload all patches to trac ? Is there a more convenient way to do that, instead of all via web ? Gmm.. answer: 'yes'. Via trac-xmlrpc plugin (don't nkow, Patrick Winnertz was add this plugin or no) and via using xml-rpc applications (eclipse-mylyn, for example). But if via web you will be uncomfortable, just send patches in maililing list. I will transfer your patches in trac. WBR, Slavaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklWK7QACgkQb3oGR6aVLpo5CgCfSc53npEOJcoAvWYrCw+meEn/ DEsAnRNe4jumsCL9CNKvTjbbi6EVcrTs =/ZL/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Slava Zanko slavaza...@gmail.com schrieb: Hi, Absolutly yes. Maintainers of distros should not include any patches of security in packages that are based on the stable branch. If any patch of security or stability is included into package (not in repro) - our work is a bad. Glad you understood it :) The folks of many, many other still refuse to - that's why I founded the OSS-QM project (http://oss-qm.metux.de/) years ago, to have a stable overlay virtually any distro can base on (I especially needed it for my embedded projects). * be very careful about adding new features * breaks should be prevented as much as possible * Patches of security and stability can be transferred from the current branch to the stable branch ACK. Of course, if we have trivial patches with very high urgence, we *could* skip that path sometimes, but that should be *really* rare. Current policy: * get in everything that's tested/discussed by the devs for further testing * prepare approved patches for getting into stable. * Each patch, which will be transported in stable branch, will be discussed in the mailing list... or at the forum if it will ever created Actually, I don't like web-forums. Too inconvenient - you always have to visit (and log into) some webapp to see what's happening. Please let's stay in this maillist and eventually connect trac with it. (would be great if patch uploading could be done via a mail robot) First of all we need to change the attitude towards visitors. Not all visitors to the professionals in the programming. Not everything could be properly explain what they want. We must be more open and friendly. Then the project will evolve. ACK. That's the job of the user support team. Actually I'd like to see more non-coders in the support team, because they have the user's view, not the coder's. * suggested sub-projects: - core it CONTROLLER? - vfs - vfs (mcvfs-fs, mcvfs-smb, mcvfs-ssh, mcvfs-ftp, mcvfs-dav, mcvfs-... ) it's MODELs - locale - build-/release engineering - mcslang - it VIEW(s?) - mcglib? - it part of LIB? - mcgettext (may be part of locale) - it VIEW(s?) huh, I'm not sure whether mvc fits in here. Well, if we say everything's a file and the model is the vfs (including things like search results represented as filesystem), we could make some steps in this direction :) hmm, should I upload all patches to trac ? Is there a more convenient way to do that, instead of all via web ? Gmm.. answer: 'yes'. Via trac-xmlrpc plugin (don't nkow, Patrick Winnertz was add this plugin or no) and via using xml-rpc applications (eclipse-mylyn, for example). But if via web you will be uncomfortable, just send patches in maililing list. I will transfer your patches in trac. Okay. I've sent out all gentoo patches so far, they're not too many. But for the future it would be cool to have the upload process done automatically - with a local command line would be even better. cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Enrico Weigelt wrote: I think the most important is to have official tree as global reference and release point. Everyone else should work relative to the lastest official release and submit his patches against it. These patches should go to this list, be discussed here and then, if considered good, be applied to the official tree. IMHO we should start with the latest stable release (4.6.1 ?) and apply all the vendor/distro patches floating around step by step (*1). Once that's done, we should make a new official release very soon. I propose to establish two branches: stable and current (in git, of course). Stable branch will contain all founded patches (Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo,...), new ideas and features. The stable branch will provide the solutions that were tested in the current tree. The stable branch will lag behind in development, but will be secure and stable (for example, good for RHEL/CentOS, SLES, etc). This scheme would not hinder the development of mc, and at the same time will allow a stable release. If we need a new hosting place, I can offer that (*2). As for the Russian issue: we devs should really agree on one well-spoken language, English. Those who're not yet capable of speaking English, could be proxied by others. That speaking of *development* - end user support is an different issue. Between developers one language: English (because Esperanto don't all know... ;) BTW, It would be a good idea that the world learned Esperanto in schools... IMHO :) ). National subprojects facilitate communication and reduce the dirt in (English) project (diplicates, invalid bugreports, etc). *1: I'm currently in the process of reviewing Gentoo's patches and sending them to the list. It's good. All existing patches are to gather in one place. BTW, look, please, http://www.midnight-commander.org I think that this URL will be the main location for bugreports... WBR, Slavaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJVMLIb3oGR6aVLpoRAvWoAJ4r9xWBGWXF8l52I06i0Wcnjwc1bACfX0gs 79oNHmvaeNZbSi0c3OZlUGs= =N796 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Enrico Weigelt wrote: Ops... sorry my mistake: - - Stable branch will contain all founded patches (Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, - - Current branch will contain all founded patches (Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo,...), new ideas and features. Fixed. :) ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
* Slava Zanko slavaza...@gmail.com schrieb: Hi, I propose to establish two branches: stable and current (in git, of course). Stable branch will contain all founded patches (Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo,...), new ideas and features. The stable branch will provide the solutions that were tested in the current tree. The stable branch will lag behind in development, but will be secure and stable (for example, good for RHEL/CentOS, SLES, etc). This scheme would not hinder the development of mc, and at the same time will allow a stable release. ACK. The stable branch should be what goes into public release. Everyone who's not actively developing on mc (even those who make small, eventually distro-specific fixes) should exclusively base on that. On the other hand current is what's been finished and tested by the subsystem devs. So everyone who likes to develop on mc can use it for testing. Stable policy: * get in fixes fast and do minor releases for them frequently (so that distros don't have to maintain their own fixes) * be very careful about adding new features * breaks should be prevented as much as possible Current policy: * get in everything that's tested/discussed by the devs for further testing * prepare approved patches for getting into stable. Subprojects (eg. translation, vfs, ...) should have their own trees and submit patches (either against stable or current) to the list for further discussion. Now for the role play: * we need some people resposible for the stable and the current tree, who have full write access - they have to decide (on discussion in the list) what patches to get in and take care of the tree wont be broken * bug wranglers should be the ones who look over new bugs, eventually give some first-aid, fixup naming and bounce them to the right people * suggested sub-projects: - core - vfs - locale - build-/release engineering As for the Russian issue: we devs should really agree on one well-spoken language, English. Those who're not yet capable of speaking English, could be proxied by others. That speaking of *development* - end user support is an different issue. Between developers one language: English (because Esperanto don't all know... ;) BTW, It would be a good idea that the world learned Esperanto in schools... IMHO :) ). Maybe we all should start learning Interlac ;-O National subprojects facilitate communication and reduce the dirt in (English) project (diplicates, invalid bugreports, etc). ACK. For example, user support should look carefully what's really a bug or just a help request. Only real bugs should go to the devs, help requests should be handled by the support people. *1: I'm currently in the process of reviewing Gentoo's patches and sending them to the list. It's good. All existing patches are to gather in one place. BTW, look, please, http://www.midnight-commander.org I think that this URL will be the main location for bugreports... hmm, should I upload all patches to trac ? Is there a more convenient way to do that, instead of all via web ? cu -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hi folks, I think the most important is to have official tree as global reference and release point. Everyone else should work relative to the lastest official release and submit his patches against it. These patches should go to this list, be discussed here and then, if considered good, be applied to the official tree. IMHO we should start with the latest stable release (4.6.1 ?) and apply all the vendor/distro patches floating around step by step (*1). Once that's done, we should make a new official release very soon. If we need a new hosting place, I can offer that (*2). As for the Russian issue: we devs should really agree on one well-spoken language, English. Those who're not yet capable of speaking English, could be proxied by others. That speaking of *development* - end user support is an different issue. cu *1: I'm currently in the process of reviewing Gentoo's patches and sending them to the list. *2: I could use a bit assistance in setting up trac on lighttpd, for some strange reason, authentication refuses to work at my site :( -- - Enrico Weigelt== metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ - Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ - ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Am Monday 22 December 2008 21:02:21 schrieben Sie: Patrick Winnertz wrote: If yes I'll set up a trac on my private server until I find a better solution. If this repro is ready I'll ping you and we can start to migrate you patches into the git repro. Is this okay for you (and the rest of the team?) Team vote 100% yes We are ready to work with you. Cool. So please: All people who wants to have write access to the repro should send mail (preffered signed) to me (win...@debian.org) and I'll create a new ssh account for committing into the git repro. Furthermore I would need the usernames for trac.. I'll create random passwords and send them then to you indiviually so that you can change them after that. After this I'll/We'll could start to migrate the stuff from the mc.redhat- club.org team into this repro. Greetings Winnie -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
2008/12/23 Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org: Am Monday 22 December 2008 21:02:21 schrieben Sie: Patrick Winnertz wrote: If yes I'll set up a trac on my private server until I find a better solution. If this repro is ready I'll ping you and we can start to migrate you patches into the git repro. Is this okay for you (and the rest of the team?) Team vote 100% yes We are ready to work with you. Cool. So please: All people who wants to have write access to the repro should send mail (preffered signed) to me (win...@debian.org) and I'll create a new ssh account for committing into the git repro. Furthermore I would need the usernames for trac.. I'll create random passwords and send them then to you indiviually so that you can change them after that. After this I'll/We'll could start to migrate the stuff from the mc.redhat- club.org team into this repro. I would like to participate. vda.linux or vda_linux are my preferred usernames. -- vda ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hey, [removed some private stuff] 1) why not asking for git on savannah? As trac needs a local git. 2) is it mc on savannah doomed? Well.. the bugtracker there is ugly.. there is too much spam, cvs is very ancient, git is so much better. 3) Why not officially close it? My intention is to set up a new place to officially develop mc and then ask the people who are responsible for the webpage and the savannah stuff to forward visitors to the trac. And add a big fat note into the cvs that the development has moved into git. Is there something else which have to be done in order to move the development officially into a new place? It would be cool if someone would help me with speaking with savannah and ibiblio.org in order to place there informations that the official site is located now elsewhere. (I'm currently set up the trac, after I'm ready i'll point you to the link) Greetings Winnie -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Am Friday 19 December 2008 05:28:56 schrieben Sie: Hello, Miguel! Quoting Miguel de Icaza mig...@ximian.com: I would personally like to see mc move to git, there are nice hosting services like github, it is easy to fork and it is easy to review patches from third parties. I'm maintaining a git mirror of the mc repository: http://repo.or.cz/w/mc.git It's updated automatically. It can be just cloned for further development. I took care to provide full names of all committers ever committing anything to the mc repository. Yes.. this would be great. Would it be possible to migrate your patches against mc into a new build up git repro which is cloned from this mirror? If yes: Is your host also captable of hosting git repros? If not I would setup a trac with git backend on my private server until we find a better solution where to host the repro. Greetings Winnie -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Patrick Winnertz wrote: It's updated automatically. It can be just cloned for further development. I took care to provide full names of all committers ever committing anything to the mc repository. Yes.. this would be great. Would it be possible to migrate your patches against mc into a new build up git repro which is cloned from this mirror? If yes: Is your host also captable of hosting git repros? Many patches(Fedora, debian) applied in one revision at start of project, sorry. Many own patches is relative to previous patches. Is it possible to migrate? Gm... Nothing is impossible :) But this will require much effort and time. If not I would setup a trac with git backend on my private server until we find a better solution where to host the repro. May be this good solution. BTW, Many people do not know English, but use mc. I would like to consider a system that allows such people to participate in the improvement project. For example, to establish national sub-projects (bugtrackers), of which bugreports translated and transferred to the main (English) project by administrators of sub-projects. Administrators do not transfer all bugreports - duplicates, invalid bugreports, wontfix and etc. remain in the sub-project. The main bugreport-system remains clean (developers work inly with main bugtracking system). Repository source for all subprojects one, so the fixing of bugs will be seen in all sub-project. Administrators of subprojects will see comments on the revision and would close corresponding bugreports. Or/and will see status of own English bugreport and then change status of relative bugreport in sub-project. The scheme of multinational sub-projects are very difficult, but allowed very large numbers of people to participate in the development, testing and improvement project. WBR, Slavaz. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJT3hab3oGR6aVLpoRAiN5AJ94Ykn05cpgOLWQCgmAe7T1kFgJYwCfWVWv Ds1Ig+mne9qJsiSQtEIKFto= =V2ES -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Many patches(Fedora, debian) applied in one revision at start of project, sorry. Many own patches is relative to previous patches. Is it possible to migrate? Gm... Nothing is impossible :) But this will require much effort and time. Well,, this should be quite easy. Have a look on the git-svn tool. You should be able to create a git checkout from your svn stuff.. After this it's very easy to pick each commit and apply it on the new git repro. This is maybe a effort of ~2-3 hours. BTW, Many people do not know English, but use mc. I would like to consider a system that allows such people to participate in the improvement project. Well.. as long as the development is in english and in one repository (with maybe several branches to test things). This is a good idea. If this means to also have several repros this is in my eyes a very bad idea. For example, to establish national sub-projects (bugtrackers), of which bugreports translated and transferred to the main (English) project by administrators of sub-projects. Administrators do not transfer all bugreports - duplicates, invalid bugreports, wontfix and etc. remain in the sub-project. The main bugreport-system remains clean (developers work inly with main bugtracking system). Repository source for all subprojects one, so the fixing of bugs will be seen in all sub-project. Administrators of subprojects will see comments on the revision and would close corresponding bugreports. Or/and will see status of own English bugreport and then change status of relative bugreport in sub-project. The scheme of multinational sub-projects are very difficult, but allowed very large numbers of people to participate in the development, testing and improvement project. Yes. I would suggest to start with one repro for the development with a main bugtracker (which is in english) and then have your bugtracker for the russian things. Is this okay for you? If yes I'll set up a trac on my private server until I find a better solution. If this repro is ready I'll ping you and we can start to migrate you patches into the git repro. Is this okay for you (and the rest of the team?) Greetings Winnie WBR, Slavaz. -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Patrick Winnertz wrote: Well,, this should be quite easy. Have a look on the git-svn tool. You should be able to create a git checkout from your svn stuff.. After this it's very easy to pick each commit and apply it on the new git repro. This is maybe a effort of ~2-3 hours. Good. But some revisions needed to re-watch. BTW, Many people do not know English, but use mc. I would like to consider a system that allows such people to participate in the improvement project. Well.. as long as the development is in english and in one repository (with maybe several branches to test things). This is a good idea. If this means to also have several repros this is in my eyes a very bad idea. No-no, repro one for all. Several branches is like for me: /branches/x.x.x - only to bug fixing of /tags/x.x.x; /sandbox - to test things, new ideas, etc. More order in mind, IMHO :) The scheme of multinational sub-projects are very difficult, but allowed very large numbers of people to participate in the development, testing and improvement project. Yes. I would suggest to start with one repro for the development with a main bugtracker (which is in english) and then have your bugtracker for the russian things. As I known, trac required only local repro. This mean, you will create second trac and *.ini, *.db files from our trac will transferred. Is this okay for you? For me - absolutely yes. For a team I started vote: http://mc.redhat-club.org/cms/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=96pid=399#post_399 You can see through translate.google.com:) If yes I'll set up a trac on my private server until I find a better solution. If this repro is ready I'll ping you and we can start to migrate you patches into the git repro. Is this okay for you (and the rest of the team?) Just wait for results of vote, please. As I said, personally for me answer yes :) WBR, Slavaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJT54bb3oGR6aVLpoRAho/AJ9+Z7DeKekDbOdobMageVuuOlwH2gCeI3ic C1YuLN+nSPCxBYQ5drEno+g= =cidx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Patrick Winnertz wrote: If yes I'll set up a trac on my private server until I find a better solution. If this repro is ready I'll ping you and we can start to migrate you patches into the git repro. Is this okay for you (and the rest of the team?) Team vote 100% yes We are ready to work with you. WRB, Slavaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklP8kQACgkQb3oGR6aVLprmXwCeJc1NfQR47aUsAsn5oaLVgy27 vlAAmQFZrQd6NmZ35qi+Zh43p97tgviC =M/1G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 08:26:17AM +0100, Patrick Winnertz wrote: Am Thursday 18 December 2008 07:39:30 schrieben Sie: Slava Zanko said: (by the date of Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:23:07 +0200) Alex Custov Andrew Savchenko Denis Frolov Dmitry Korzhevin Pavel Vasil'ev Slava Zanko Isn't Patrick Winnertz part of your newly formed development team? I guess that he wants to be! He just asked for write access to CVS. No, I'm the maintainer of mc inside debian and using it very heavily. I wrote some smaller patches for mc which I posted to the list several months ago. After no reaction I worked for my own. If nobody has any objections I would like to work together with this new team on the development of mc. Greetings Winnie I'm the mc italian translator and I have (and would like to mantain) write permission on mc savannah cvs repository. I'll be glad to continue to update the translation directly in the hope to be able to contribute in the future with some more effective work (starting from the i18n code). bye -- Marco Ciampa ++ | Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Well, As I see there are plenty of people who would like to work further on mc, it would be very sad if these people will work on different versions, as this is ineffective, and tend to end in even more dead projects. My suggestion would be to have at first a look who wants to help to develop mc further and then where to do this. Personally I would like to make a viewable break to the development which was done until now, this mean: a new repository (not longer the CVS (as CVS is ancient in my eyes and svn or git is much better). So: At first the people who would like to work on mc should send a: I would like to do something. After we know who want's to work on mc we have to decide where to work on it: Either on savannah, or on the new/forked mc project. No matter where we will work further on it I'll help :) Greetings Winnie -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Patrick Winnertz wrote: Well, As I see there are plenty of people who would like to work further on mc, it would be very sad if these people will work on different versions, as this is ineffective, and tend to end in even more dead projects. Yes, this may be a trouble. We have already realized it and in the future will try to communicate in English. My suggestion would be to have at first a look who wants to help to develop mc further and then where to do this. Personally I would like to make a viewable break to the development which was done until now, this mean: a new repository (not longer the CVS (as CVS is ancient in my eyes and svn or git is much better). In now, we use svn (what we well known), but I like the distributed VCS's more. If there an easy migration way from svn to git then this opportunity will be considered. And with the wishes of the people who are interested in further development of the project - a decision would not been taken only of a developers team. So: At first the people who would like to work on mc should send a: I would like to do something. Yes, we like. We would like further improvement and development of Midnight Commander. WBR, Slavaz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJSkcub3oGR6aVLpoRAgsNAJ0a5VjMnUErK53fxBcXGUiy6H9w4gCfb2fI 2xecvDgmguii94gbjCul5qs= =UwkU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Patrick Winnertz schrieb: So: At first the people who would like to work on mc should send a: I would like to do something. I'd like to. If there is some more action in mc development (like in 2005, when it was great fun), I'm definitely willing to invest some time into it. Maybe we even get all the different UTF-8 patches incorporated into mc. If that's possible without #ifdef's in each and every file, I'd like to work on it. Roland ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, My suggestion would be to have at first a look who wants to help to develop mc further and then where to do this. Agreed, this initial post is light on the details as to what the changes are, ChangeLog entries and the documentation. The site is in Russian which does not help very much in terms of getting our international crowd to talk to everyone else * What the patches are (with ChangeLog entries) * What the changes are (with documentation) I would personally like to see mc move to git, there are nice hosting services like github, it is easy to fork and it is easy to review patches from third parties. Miguel. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Hello, Miguel! Quoting Miguel de Icaza mig...@ximian.com: I would personally like to see mc move to git, there are nice hosting services like github, it is easy to fork and it is easy to review patches from third parties. I'm maintaining a git mirror of the mc repository: http://repo.or.cz/w/mc.git It's updated automatically. It can be just cloned for further development. I took care to provide full names of all committers ever committing anything to the mc repository. -- Regards, Pavel Roskin ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Further Midnight Commander development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, dear developers! It is no secret that the recent console manager Midnight Commander stopped in its development. We do not know the reasons why this is happening, but we badly want to see its further development. In fact, the Midnight Commander is developing further, but distributions in the form of patches, for each distribution its own set of patches. In fact, there are many versions of modern MS for each distribution. Our team was formed recently, we have only just begun working on Midnight Commander, we have yet to be established, the relationship within the team have formed. But we are striving to become a team, which will be beneficial to all fans MC (a lot of them). Already, we have created assembly, which could satisfy both users of Debian/Ubuntu, FreeBSD and Gentoo, and users of Red Hat Linux distributions, Open Suse, MandRiva etc. You may have to apologize already issued release mc-4.6.3 (actually, we do not have the right to publish under that name). It is better to ask forgiveness than permission.. :) We are a young team, we ask that you permit the continued development of Midnight Commander it was under this name. Also, please refer to us the files CVS repository for the preservation of history and development of the names of all people, ever participated in the development mc. We understand that this may be shocking request, but nevertheless, we hope to receive any response - if the answer is we simply will Forque, which we hope will develop further. We want to see MC very comfortable and pleasant, not as it is now. Best regards, Alex Custov Andrew Savchenko Denis Frolov Dmitry Korzhevin Pavel Vasil'ev Slava Zanko http://mc.redhat-club.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklJl+EACgkQb3oGR6aVLprYawCfUzxri0au8tfvG+PLnpbiFLFQ MBkAn0nzw6HkE1LF3wESFa3BOZIrwH2Z =D+6B -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Slava Zanko said: (by the date of Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:23:07 +0200) Alex Custov Andrew Savchenko Denis Frolov Dmitry Korzhevin Pavel Vasil'ev Slava Zanko Isn't Patrick Winnertz part of your newly formed development team? I guess that he wants to be! He just asked for write access to CVS. -- Janek Kozicki | ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Further Midnight Commander development
Am Thursday 18 December 2008 07:39:30 schrieben Sie: Slava Zanko said: (by the date of Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:23:07 +0200) Alex Custov Andrew Savchenko Denis Frolov Dmitry Korzhevin Pavel Vasil'ev Slava Zanko Isn't Patrick Winnertz part of your newly formed development team? I guess that he wants to be! He just asked for write access to CVS. No, I'm the maintainer of mc inside debian and using it very heavily. I wrote some smaller patches for mc which I posted to the list several months ago. After no reaction I worked for my own. If nobody has any objections I would like to work together with this new team on the development of mc. Greetings Winnie -- . '' ` . Patrick Winnertz win...@debian.org : :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user `. `'` http://people.debian.org/~winnie - http://www.der-winnie.de `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Mc-devel mailing list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
