Re: MC topdir /.. remove!
Pavel Roskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 22.01.03 19:36:44: It's important that the users who come from other similar filemanagers are not confused. In all of those filemanagers, the root directory has no .., and it's an indicator of the top-level directory. We could remove .. everywhere and use a shortcut to go up (Ctrl-PgUp), but that would also be confusing to the new users with DOS, Windows or OS/2 background. I think I gonna get used to it even if I don't like it really much but since many people seem to prefer the new over the old one then I'm all for it. Anyways thank you for your great work on MC it's still the best console filemanager around. Greets. __ Nutzen Sie Ihre Zeit fur wirklich wichtige Dinge! Alle E-Mail-Adressen zentral verwalten unter: http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021121 ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC topdir /.. remove!
Hi, Pavel Roskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 22.01.03 19:36:44: It's important that the users who come from other similar filemanagers are not confused. In all of those filemanagers, the root directory has no .., and it's an indicator of the top-level directory. We could remove .. everywhere and use a shortcut to go up (Ctrl-PgUp), but that would also be confusing to the new users with DOS, Windows or OS/2 background. note that special keys like ctrl+pgup can't pass several terminals, they only work on console with raw keyboard access and sometimes in xterm too. so it shouldn't be the only way to cd .. A'rpi / Astral ESP-team -- Developer of MPlayer, the Movie Player for Linux - http://www.MPlayerHQ.hu ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
MC topdir /.. remove!
Hi, I just recompiled MC some mins ago from CVS and I noticed that you removed the topmost /.. - doubledots from MC and I find it highly confusing to use it now since I used used to go manually back in dirs to the topmost dir and hit the left and right panel on these dot's to have MC save the correct position on the prefs. I used to use it that way for many years now and Now the first entry is /bin here no topmost /.. or /. to push. I would really like to have this back in since it's also a FILESYSTEM standard to go back from dirs using /.. -- doubledots and stay in the same dir by using /. -- singledot. cd .. -- goes back one dir cd . -- refreshes same dir so seriously place that back in since I'm used to it for so long. Or if it really bothers the developer please make it an option so I can re-enable it. __ Immer die neuesten ASCII-Bilder versenden, mit WEB.DE FreeMail ist das kein Problem für Sie. http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021170 ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC topdir /.. remove!
Hello! I just recompiled MC some mins ago from CVS and I noticed that you removed the topmost /.. - doubledots Yes. The patch was suggested by Bulia Byak [EMAIL PROTECTED] and nobody complained. from MC and I find it highly confusing to use it now since I used used to go manually back in dirs to the topmost dir and hit the left and right panel on these dot's to have MC save the correct position on the prefs. I used to use it that way for many years now and Now the first entry is /bin here no topmost /.. or /. to push. I don't understand. Could you please explain it in more details? What are you trying to do? Why is it a problem for you? Why do you care about the root directory? -- Regards, Pavel Roskin ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC topdir /.. remove!
Pavel Roskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 22.01.03 15:42:30: /.. - doubledots Yes. The patch was suggested by Bulia Byak [EMAIL PROTECTED] and nobody complained. Sad, I'm not subscribed to the list anymore because of some internal problems for a couple of weeks so I must have missed that one otherwise I would have complained *loudly* about it. Please forgive if I complain now. prefs. I used to use it that way for many years now and Now the first entry is /bin here no topmost /.. or /. to push. I don't understand. Could you please explain it in more details? What are you trying to do? Why is it a problem for you? Why do you care about the root directory? Well, first of all I really like to have that feature back or at least an option in prefs to enable it again. Well how to explain the problem it's more a feel and use for a bunch of years and I find it totally annyoing how it is now it's not the way how I used to use it anymore. From the filesystem point of view you know when you do a 'ls -l' you see . .. blahdir2 blahdir3 file1 file2 It's a known filesystem behaviour which got removed now. If you enter cd .. then you get put back one dir, If you enter 'cd .' you get directory changed and refreshed into the same dir e.g. if you removed a dir with MC and on another terminal you are still in the dir and you unpack the dir again then doing an 'ls -l' will give you no output. you need to refresh the dir you can either cd completyl into the dir again from root or you simply enter 'cd .' that was the SAME purpose and meaning in MC. here a practical example - open 2 dirs with MC - now open another terminal in the console and remove one dir completely (from the dir you see in mc) - MC didn't updated this dir. - the usual correct way to refresh this dir is either 'refresh it form menu or shortkey' or moving with the cursor to the top of the dir (usually homekey or screen up) and press return on the '/..' or '/.' bar. It will rescan the dir and refresh the output and shows me the dir removed. Now as is I need to go inside of /bin /dev or any other dir and go out again to see the Dir changed or need to press refresh. So you basically cut some of the features of a correct directory management by implementing that patch. So I really like to ask you to remove that patch again or make it optional in the prefs e.g. 'Showing topmost dot in Root' or something but removing it completely is wrong and not well thought. Please put it back in again. Thank you. __ Ihre eigene Internet-Seite! Kinderleicht fur Anfaenger und Profis Kostenlos testen unter http://mypage.web.de/?mc=021110 ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re[2]: MC topdir /.. remove!
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:01:09 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: prefs. I used to use it that way for many years now and Now the first entry is /bin here no topmost /.. or /. to push. I don't understand. Could you please explain it in more details? What are you trying to do? Why is it a problem for you? Why do you care about the root directory? Well, first of all I really like to have that feature back or at least an option in prefs to enable it again. Well how to explain the problem it's more a feel and use for a bunch of years and I find it totally annyoing how it is now it's not the way how I used to use it anymore. Well it seems you are confusing smth. .. still are in all dirs, only not in the root dir. Regards, Nerijus ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: Re[2]: MC topdir /.. remove!
Nerijus Baliunas [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 22.01.03 16:30:07: Well how to explain the problem it's more a feel and use for a bunch of years and I find it totally annyoing how it is now it's not the way how I used to use it anymore. Well it seems you are confusing smth. .. still are in all dirs, only not in the root dir. No, I'm not confused it's now as you describe it but that's the point it should get back into root dir aswell as it used to be. Not because it behaves just more correctly it's also a matter of hierarchystandards. root dir looks usually like this when doing a ls -l ;-- . -- shows topmost dot for 'cd .' or refresh dir same as 'cd /' boot bin dev etc home lib ;-- cd boot ls -l ;-- . -- shows topmost dot for 'cd .' or refresh dir same as 'cd /' .. -- shows the user that this is a subdir where he can go back with 'cd ..' System.map blah blah vmlinuz ;-- That's how MC was before the patch was made it only showed a double dot which was a little mistake but the general operation was correct. Now please before replying try to understand the concepts and philosophy behind this situation before making changes like these and not simply accept patches and commit them. Needless to say that there wasn't a special reason for many years to have that one removed or changed to something else and this so close for a 4.6.0 release. Example again: - start mc - change to the top dirs (root) on the left and the right panel - open a new console and enter 'rm -rf dev' (just a theoretical example) - mc still shows 'dev' in the 2 panels. - as i said there are 3 ways to refresh the panels through the menu, through the shortkey and by going up to the '/..' double dots and press return. last named one is the way i use it for years. usually the subdirs need to have a '/.' dot too to refresh the same dir when something got change but that was removed long time ago before I was able to point to the fact of the philosophy behind the filesystems. Now the last remaining bastion of '/..' in the top rootdir for me to use EVERY day and in every MC session I used got removed without any proper reasons. And now I really appreciate to have the '/..' doubledots back for a normal operation here or at least a preferences in MC or maybe for after mc 4.6.0 inclusion so we could have another discussion about it but not 3 days before the official release of mc after nearly 2 years. Please understand me and my point and put the doubledots back and please don't make this serious userrequest mature into some stupid silly not needed rant. The doubledots belong there. __ Viren? Wir wissen nicht was Ihr Arzt empfiehlt. Wir empfehlen den Virencheck für Ihre E-Mail-Anhänge! http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021159 ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
Re: MC topdir /.. remove!
I want to reply to Bulia, Nerijus and Dmitry in one Reply to not overhelm the Mailinglist. @Bulia First of all, I never saw a . entry in mc. I don't think it exists. So you cannot use this for refreshing your directory view even if you want to. First of all a filemanager should be a mirror of what the real filesystem gives you. My opinion. If you grab a good book describing how a filesystem is build up and what these '.' thingies mean then you understand it and that's the point what I was trying to explain. Normally a dir has '.' for refresh, '..' for going back one dir and the root dir only has '.' for refresh. That was the intention behind the .. in MC as well but got changed over time iirc. So usually to have MC act as a mirror of your Filesystem it has to support all these dots too. I agree that the .. (dotdot) in the root dir was a bit wrong choosen name and having it say 'UP ONE DIR' was wrong too but iirc it was change that way over the time but I'm not 100% sure. Could we please arrange this way that every dir has .-- dot for refresh .. -- to go back one dir and the root dir has only the .-- refresh ? Now MC has the '.' removed and uses the '..' for going back one dir only and I got used to it over the years but the '..' in the root dir should become a '.' only and do a refresh of that dir ? Maybe optionally in a prefs ? That's all I was asking for and I really appreciate if we all could agree on it without getting deeper into it. If you like me to explain more in detail what's so special about these dots then I must refer you to some books describing these things in detail. It will clear much up. Second, .. can be used for refresh ONLY in the root dir. In all other cases you just go to parent dir (and have to go back). I think it's a rather strange way to do refresh. Yeah, different people and different ways to do the task. @Bulia, Nerijus and Dmitry Third, why not just press ctrl-r. Works in any place, and you don't need to move cursor anywhere or go to any other dir. More importantly, the ctrl-r feature was DESIGNED to do refresh. Why not use proper tools for each task? Thats only a suggestion in how to do it differently but not the solution and answer to the open problem of the '.' dot thingies. I simply got used as righthand person to press ScreenUP and RETURN its faster and less of a distance for me to press these keys. @Bulia And finally, .. does not mean refresh. It means go to parent. I know this and I sad that this was 'wrong' in MC but the function of it was correct. The '..' should have been a '.' and the '.' has to be present in all dirs and if I'm not mistaken then it used to be that way until someone messed around in it and changed it that way. I may be wrong too so please forgive. I think that this can be made optional, but only if someone gives a more convincing reason for the existence of .. in root. Yes please make it optional or even better fix that one correctly since a filemanager mirros the reality of a filesystem so normally all the dots should be visible in all dirs as I tried above but someone seem to have removed them long time ago because he got bothered with the accidental hit on the '.' which does a refresh. So the 'dot' got removed and the 'dotdot' remained thats why the rootdir got the 'dotdot' instead of the 'dot'. Function was correct 'dot' was incorrect. I also tend to quickly press screenup, return a couple of times to get back into the root dir and stay there but now I sometimes press one or two times to much and land into subdirs again. Someone dunno who it was replied that I make some mistakes when I constantly delete stuff in rootdir... It was just an example nothing else. __ Den Komfort von WEB.DE FreeMail nutzen, aber die alten E-Mail-Adressen nicht aufgeben? Kein Problem: http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021128 ___ Mc-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mc-devel
