[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
I read these fast, so I might have missed it, but no one is mentioning CMYK printing. That is what all this is about. If you're working with a good printer, especially one who reproduces fine art images on a regular basis, your color workflow will be guided by them. Color scales in the film will help you with selecting the best exposure as well as creating a balanced scan. Color targets in direct capture images will assist the software in creating a balanced image. Both targets matter to the color separator who is converting your file to CMYK. And, if your workflow allows it, you are "hard proofing" the CMYK print against the actual work under controlled lighting conditions. JEFF Jeffrey Evans Digital Imaging Specialist Princeton University Art Museum 609.258.8579 On 10/20/08 10:15 PM, "Thiel, Sarah Goodwin" wrote: > > > nicely put. > > > > -Original Message- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Stanley Smith > Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 4:44 PM > To: mcn-l at mcn.edu > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > > A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: > > - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the > color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, > accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT > produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. > > - If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully > under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the > original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image > later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is > rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. > > - There is some interest in the production of "virtual" grayscales and > color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color > corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then > other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and > color bars. > > - If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then > it is really not good practice to only do it once for a "batch". It is > too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- > especially years hence. Put them in every image. > > > > > Stanley Smith > Manager, Imaging Services > J. Paul Getty Museum > 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 > Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 > (310) 440-7286 > > 10/15/2008 12:00 PM >>> > Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to > mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mcn-l-request at mcn.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) >2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Frank E. Thomson) >3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Tim Atherton) >4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Nilsen, Dianne) >5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany > (akeshet at imj.org.il) >6. IP SIG: McCain-Palin, DMCA, YouTube, and Fair Use > (akeshet at imj.org.il) >7. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Genevieve De mahy) >8. Digitization - definition and strategic planning (Diane M. > Zorich) >9. free ftp software? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) > 10. Re: free ftp software? (Edwards, Chris) > 11. Re: free ftp software? (Daniel M. Bartolini) > 12. Re: free ftp software? (Elizabeth Bruton) > 13. Re: free ftp software? (Tracy Davenport) > 14. Re: free ftp software? (Melissa Johnson) > 15. The Museum System on Mac via VMWare Fusion (Jeff Evans) > 16. Re: free ftp software? (Perian Sully) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:04:21 -0400 > From: "Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)" > Subject: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > To: > Message-ID: > <9C2785C9A3152441B3AAC2E03346BC4C039C0AD3 at s0141136.miamidade.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > We are about to digitize a collection of photo albums containing > 1910s/20s photographs; while they are black and white, many have > discolored and turned sepia over the years. Since these are fragile, > bound volumes we will be doing this through photography rather than > scanning. Would you say it is necessary or advisable or standard > practice to use a color card or a grey card during this process? > > >
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Interesting thread. Our current solution to the issues below is to capture a Macbeth Color Checker within every shot and save that file as DNG. We then convert to TIFF, crop away the captured color checker, do our visual editing tweaks, and insert an electronically generated ?perfect? Macbeth chart into the tiff which becomes our distribution copy. In this way we have documentation of our captured color in the DNG, but avoid losing our color corrections down the reproduction chain by anyone who might be tempted to neutralize on the gray patches. Erik Erik Landsberg Head of Collections Imaging The Museum of Modern Art 11 West 53 Street, New York, NY 10019 212-708-9489 erik_landsberg at moma.org www.moma.org From: Jeff Evans Reply-To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:05:59 -0400 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Conversation: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? I read these fast, so I might have missed it, but no one is mentioning CMYK printing. That is what all this is about. If you're working with a good printer, especially one who reproduces fine art images on a regular basis, your color workflow will be guided by them. Color scales in the film will help you with selecting the best exposure as well as creating a balanced scan. Color targets in direct capture images will assist the software in creating a balanced image. Both targets matter to the color separator who is converting your file to CMYK. And, if your workflow allows it, you are "hard proofing" the CMYK print against the actual work under controlled lighting conditions. JEFF Jeffrey Evans Digital Imaging Specialist Princeton University Art Museum 609.258.8579 On 10/20/08 10:15 PM, "Thiel, Sarah Goodwin" wrote: > > > nicely put. > > > > -Original Message- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Stanley Smith > Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 4:44 PM > To: mcn-l at mcn.edu > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > > A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: > > - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the > color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, > accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT > produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. > > - If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully > under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the > original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image > later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is > rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. > > - There is some interest in the production of "virtual" grayscales and > color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color > corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then > other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and > color bars. > > - If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then > it is really not good practice to only do it once for a "batch". It is > too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- > especially years hence. Put them in every image. > > > > > Stanley Smith > Manager, Imaging Services > J. Paul Getty Museum > 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 > Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 > (310) 440-7286 > > 10/15/2008 12:00 PM >>> > Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to > mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mcn-l-request at mcn.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) >2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Frank E. Thomson) >3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Tim Atherton) >4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Nilsen, Dianne) >5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany > (akeshet at imj.org.il) >6. IP SIG: McCain-Palin, DMCA, YouTube, and Fair Use > (akeshet at imj.org.il) >7. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Genevieve De mahy) >8. Digitization - definition and strategic planning (Diane M. > Zorich) >9. free ftp software? (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) > 10. Re: free ftp software? (Edwards, Chris) > 11. Re: free ftp software? (Daniel M. Bartolini) > 12. Re: free ftp software? (Elizabeth Bruton) > 13. Re: free ftp software? (Tracy Davenport) > 14. Re:
[MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Not sure if it was clear in my post below that we archive both the DNG and the TIFF. The visual editing is done within a calibrated environment: Kelvin temp of monitor =(with small variation) the Kelvin temp of the light source illuminating the artwork. Erik From: "Landsberg, Erik" Reply-To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:14:58 -0400 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Conversation: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Interesting thread. Our current solution to the issues below is to capture a Macbeth Color Checker within every shot and save that file as DNG. We then convert to TIFF, crop away the captured color checker, do our visual editing tweaks, and insert an electronically generated ?perfect? Macbeth chart into the tiff which becomes our distribution copy. In this way we have documentation of our captured color in the DNG, but avoid losing our color corrections down the reproduction chain by anyone who might be tempted to neutralize on the gray patches. Erik Erik Landsberg Head of Collections Imaging The Museum of Modern Art 11 West 53 Street, New York, NY 10019 212-708-9489 erik_landsberg at moma.org www.moma.org From: Jeff Evans Reply-To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 09:05:59 -0400 To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Conversation: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? I read these fast, so I might have missed it, but no one is mentioning CMYK printing. That is what all this is about. If you're working with a good printer, especially one who reproduces fine art images on a regular basis, your color workflow will be guided by them. Color scales in the film will help you with selecting the best exposure as well as creating a balanced scan. Color targets in direct capture images will assist the software in creating a balanced image. Both targets matter to the color separator who is converting your file to CMYK. And, if your workflow allows it, you are "hard proofing" the CMYK print against the actual work under controlled lighting conditions. JEFF Jeffrey Evans Digital Imaging Specialist Princeton University Art Museum 609.258.8579 On 10/20/08 10:15 PM, "Thiel, Sarah Goodwin" wrote: > > > nicely put. > > > > -Original Message- > From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu on behalf of Stanley Smith > Sent: Mon 10/20/2008 4:44 PM > To: mcn-l at mcn.edu > Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > > A couple of comments regarding the use of grayscale and color bars: > > - due to differences between dyes and/or pigments used to make the > color bars and the materials used to produce the actual artwork, > accurately rendering the grayscales in a particular image may NOT > produce the most accurate rendition of the artwork itself. > > - If there is some visual editing to tweak color into place (hopefully > under calibrated viewing conditions with direct comparisons to the > original artwork), then another operator who may be printing the image > later will most likely UNDO those edits if they assume that the image is > rendered correctly by printing a neutral grayscale. > > - There is some interest in the production of "virtual" grayscales and > color bars. These would be digitally dropped into the edited and color > corrected image with the same colorspace as the original image. Then > other users would achieve better color when they match the grayscale and > color bars. > > - If it is your decision to incorporate grayscales and color bars, then > it is really not good practice to only do it once for a "batch". It is > too difficult to mate up the correct grayscales with subsequent images-- > especially years hence. Put them in every image. > > > > > Stanley Smith > Manager, Imaging Services > J. Paul Getty Museum > 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000 > Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687 > (310) 440-7286 > > 10/15/2008 12:00 PM >>> > Send mcn-l mailing list submissions to > mcn-l at mcn.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://toronto.mediatrope.com/mailman/listinfo/mcn-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mcn-l-request at mcn.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mcn-l-owner at mcn.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of mcn-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Jansonius, Remko (Vizcaya)) >2. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Frank E. Thomson) >3. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Tim Atherton) >4. Re: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? > (Nilsen, Dianne) >5. IP SIG: No fair use for thumbnails in Germany > (akeshet
[MCN-L] FW: photography, digitization, and a color/grey card?
Mark Paradis Chief, Multimedia Services-Chef de services multim?dia National Gallery of Canada, Mus?e des beaux-arts du Canada 380 Sussex Drive,Ottawa, Ontario K1N 9N4 ph. 613-990-1788, fx. 613-991-2680 cell 613-797-0558 -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu] On Behalf Of mpara...@gallery.ca Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 6:22 PM To: mcn-l at mcn.edu Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey card? Hi All, This is my first posting since joining many years ago, but I'm an avid reader of the MCN. To that end I'd like to add my two cents worth to the discussion. Color bars and grey scales have been discussed since their invention. They have been a standard for so very long but do pose a few concerns for me. First point I do agree on is that the Greytag color checker is far superior to the Kodak medium. The non reflective nature of the Greytag checker helps eliminate flare thus providing more consistent results if you feel that color checkers are the solution for your operation. My objection to color bars when included at the capture/scanning stage is that any global changes made in image editing software will also extend to the color reference as well. Send the file to printing and the printers will correct the scale back to its know color and your original will share this bias. Knowing that the subject matter we all tend to deal with requires some degree of alteration at the capture phase we found we had to develop a new way of adding visual reference material that would be independent of the final edited image. Here's our thinking and solution which has been extremely successful for our collection of over 29,000 captures to date; First, calibration, calibration, calibration of all devices used in the reproduction process. This is now an old mantra to most image creators today but it cannot be stressed enough. We have a weekly regimen of systematic calibration of cameras and monitors to ensure consistency on these variables. Secondly, viewing conditions of originals. We undertook the conversion of our studio spaces to 5000K lighting in our fluorescent fixtures. We confirm these conditions with a color temperature meter monthly. This gives the photographer a reference environment to confirm color and contrast at the time of capture to the results visible on the calibrated monitor. This tends to be the one and only time this comparison can be made by a trained visual professional and is therefore critical to the final outcome. Once the image has been fined tuned by the photographer to best reflect the original we move on to the final piece of the reference puzzle. Third step, create your own unbiased reference scale. Yup, I said it, a homemade solution. Our approach was to create a digitally perfect reference grey scale in Photoshop. We created a 21 step, digitally created grey scale in Photoshop in .15 step increments just like the Kodak ones are supposed to be. Beginning at values of 0,0,0 for purest digital black on up to 255,255,255 for maximum white. With this technique each step of the scale is measurable and digitally accurate for today and evermore. Once an image capture is completed by the photographer (in their calibrated work environment), the digital scale is then added post-capture thus anchoring the original look to a perfect scale. Now when the printers make a neutral scale they are actually not affecting the final outcome of the photographer's rendition of the subject. We encourage them to use the scale without reservation for first run proofs. This system will also allow some insight into the ability of your printer in delivering a linear tone scale. If they can't deal with a neutral balance in the scale then a final publication will be a hit and miss project at the best of times. When scale proofs are measured from a linear reference it can be a beneficial tool in addressing the printers' possible areas of inconsistency either at the time of CMYK conversion or at the press. Because this technique has known values it puts to bed any debate of the scale's robustness or variability. The scale never changes! I hope this offers you another approach to this long standing issue. When the museum of color scales opens and the catalogue of scales is published, I'll go back to shooting them as subject and put away my computer. Until that time, the art rules! Mark Paradis Chief, Multimedia Services-Chef de services multim?dia National Gallery of Canada, Mus?e des beaux-arts du Canada 380 Sussex Drive,Ottawa, Ontario K1N 9N4 ph. 613-990-1788, fx. 613-991-2680 cell 613-797-0558 -Original Message- From: mcn-l-bounces at mcn.edu [mailto:mcn-l-boun...@mcn.edu] On Behalf Of Genevieve De mahy Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:48 AM To: Museum Computer Network Listserv Subject: Re: [MCN-L] photography, digitization, and a color/grey
