RE: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
8 megabits/second is not that slow. Most ethernet networks that have been around for a while transfer data at 10Mbits/s and that is pretty snappy. It's definitely faster than most removable storage devices can handle. -- Martin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of LAS Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 11:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a "Zip killer" === The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === (b) MD-data was (is?) slow, MD-audio can probably manage ~ 2MBit/s, to compete you need at LEAST 8MBit/s. Are you sure that the MD data used on that camera runs at that speed? Is perfectly possible... He's saying megabits NOT megabytes. Do you realize how slow something is if it's transfer rate is measused in megabits?? Those numbers are not very impressive. LAS === MIME part removed : text/html; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
Okay, I remember the time where the MD-Data drive was introduced. At that time, it was quite competing and a good alternative for the Zip Drive. But: 1) MD-Data drive was about 2-3 times more expensive than a Zip Drive 2) Zip Drives could be hooked up to a Parallel port or a SCSI port, the MD-Data drive needed a SCSI-2 port. Both these two arguments are enough for all the people to buy the Zip Drive with the Parallel interface. (//=~220kb/s, MD-Data =~ 150kb/s). Let's face it, the only plus of the MD-Data drive was the higher capacity and the fact it is a MO media. For the rest, Zip and others where far ahead Cheers, Ralph -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
Simon wrote... Bear in mind: (a) MD-data blanks still cost around 4x audio blanks (b) MD-data was (is?) slow, MD-audio can probably manage ~ 2MBit/s, to compete you need at LEAST 8MBit/s. (c) There is a resistance to multiple media standards. No one wants to end up with their data on an obsolete medium (8"floppy,5"floppy,A.N.Other tape c.). Given that there is already a mini-DVD format (I think), who's going to swallow ANOTHER similar sized incompatible format ? ___ Point a: This is entirely arbitrary. It is the same media. Sony did this play intentionally. Atrac data is stored on audio discs. Any kind of data could be stored on audio discs. Point b: Data drives were originally 4x the audio transfer rate almost ten years ago. I would expect they could be designed to be faster now. Even at the slow rate, I'd still use md for data. I seldom "fill up" a zip disc. More often I'm transferring 5 or 10 meg files and I don't want to use multiple floppies. Time isn't really an issue for those. Point c: The format would be incompatible with existing data media, however, think of the established base of md users and their discs. If I could stock one kind of blank media for both my data and my audio needs, that's "compatibility" not "incompatiblity." I know it's not going to happen, that ship has sailed, but I'd love an md recorder that could double as a data drive (as long as I didn't have to buy $15 discs for the thing). - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
=== The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === Hi everyone! When I first heard about the MD Data format being released by Sony, I thought that it would be a successful "B Drive". But Iomega went in around the time that Sony released MD Data and aggressively pushed their "Zip" disk on everyone. The factors that brought Zip as the primary "B drive" was the snappy name, the sexy blue case that the external drive came in and the way the earlier versions were able to connect via the parallel port on the average PC. This was exaggerated by the big-budget ad campaigns that they took out, with the goal of running it as a "loss-leader". What Sony needs to do is promote the new MD-Data2 650Mb disc as a "B drive" is to market it as a "Zip killer". This would mean designing USB or SCSI external drives that work with current-generation PCs and Macs and are presented in sexy boxes; encouraging the Linux community to write Linux drivers for the MD-Data2 drives, providing software for playing (and perhaps editing or recording) regular audio MiniDiscs; and market it in a loss-leading way. The MD-Data2 discs could hold heaps of high-resolution digital images (especially in bitmap form), many projects worth of Word documents, one or two desktop publishing projects with all of the images for that project. An interesting appliance concept for this medium would be a digital image view-download unit for use in the field. These devices, in a similar vein to Iomega's Clik digital-image-download device which fills 40Mb disks, would transfer images from a CompactFlash card or a SimartMedia card to an MD-Data2 disc (which holds 10 times the amount of the biggest CF card). This would allow a photographer to work at the highest resolution on one of the new 2.3 or above megapixel digital cameras for a long time without worrying about memory-card space. This comes in handy during weddings, holidays and other occasions where a lot of pictures are being taken and there is no chance of being able to download the images during the trip. By providing a built-in LCD screen in the device (which the Iomega Clik device doesn't have), it makes it possible to preview images taken during the past shoot, thus conserving the camera' batteries for taking pictures. The unit can support external video outputs so images can be viewed on a video monitor by a group or projected using a video projector. USB ports would be provided so the unit can be connected to a computer for image manipulation or to a printer, card drive (for other solid-state media) or scanner. As well, regular audio MiniDiscs can be played in the unit, with such facilities as an "at-a-glance" track index. With regards, Simon Mackay === MIME part removed : text/html; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
Simon Mackay wrote about MD2-Data: What Sony needs to do is promote the new MD-Data2 650Mb disc as a "B drive" is to market it as a "Zip killer". I'm a little concerned that we should be discussing "killing" Iomega to help promote MD. I have no shares in Sony or Iomega, so my only interest in promoting general MD usage are: 1) it's cool 2) wider usage should bring down the price of blanks MD equipment. I have no desire to inflict collateral damage in essentially unconnected markets. I'm not sure we will derive ANY benefit from the success of MD2, except perhaps an inceased awareness of MD, and it might actually hurt us by making our current investment in MD obsolete sooner. simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Simon Mackay wrote: Hi, [...] An interesting appliance concept for this medium would be a digital image view-download unit for use in the field. These devices, in a similar vein to Iomega's Clik digital-image-download device which fills 40Mb disks, would transfer images from a CompactFlash card or a SimartMedia card to an MD-Data2 disc (which holds 10 times the amount of the biggest CF card). This would allow a photographer to work at the highest resolution on one of the new 2.3 or above megapixel digital cameras for a long time without worrying about memory-card space. This comes in handy during weddings, holidays and other occasions where a lot of pictures are being taken and there is no chance of being able to download the images during the trip. Don't forget a FireWire port! :) To be able to transfer from your DV or D8 camera directly to that device; standalone FireWire cards costs about $300, I'm sure that having the porte integrated on a mass production unit will lower a lot the costs... I'm definitely not going to spend $300 for having a couple of USB-alike ports, but will definitely spend those or more un such device: a multi-conector-cheap-reliable-media-multi-purpose mass storage device... Don't forget that zip/jaz/clik etc. can't match MD media stability (MO) also, they're as (I guess less) reliable as a hard disk... That device would be a dream gadget! greets, *---(*)---**-- Francisco J. Montilla System Network administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] irc: pukkaSevilleSpain INSFLUG (LiNUX) Coordinator: www.insflug.org - ftp.insflug.org - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Simon Barnes wrote: Hi! Simon Mackay wrote about MD2-Data: What Sony needs to do is promote the new MD-Data2 650Mb disc as a "B drive" is to market it as a "Zip killer". Well, I guess it's pretty easy to make a zip/jaz/clik killer in terms of media price and reliability by simply using MD. It will not only be far superior to any Iomega device, but even MO devices (here having equal reliability), since media will be a lot cheaper... I'm not sure we will derive ANY benefit from the success of MD2, except perhaps an inceased awareness of MD, and it might actually hurt us by making our current investment in MD obsolete sooner. I guess you're seeing it from the wrong (and certainly as Sony uses to see) point of view: I'll position it so that owners of MD gear can have such unit as a _complementary_ device, something ala midiman CO2/3 regarding interfaces, but including storage; as those units will have USB/FireWire ports, if Sony makes them so that they can dump/write standard music MD, you won't have to buy a souncard with S/PDIF or toslink for audio transfer, nor a slink/slink-e or IR hack to control it. The device will be intended to do data manipulation and storage, i.e., you put a music MD in, connect via your USB/FireWire port to the PC/Mac and be able to record/dump music digitally at several times normal speed via the USB port with a minimum of fuss; you can take later that MD with your preferred portable unit then. I see it as a complementary device to Decks and portables aimed to computer users... Sony! are you listening!? ;P greets, *---(*)---**-- Francisco J. Montilla System Network administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] irc: pukkaSevilleSpain INSFLUG (LiNUX) Coordinator: www.insflug.org - ftp.insflug.org - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
Francisco Jose Montilla wrote: Well, I guess it's pretty easy to make a zip/jaz/clik killer in terms of media price and reliability by simply using MD. It will not only be far superior to any Iomega device, but even MO devices (here having equal reliability), since media will be a lot cheaper... Bear in mind: (a) MD-data blanks still cost around 4x audio blanks (b) MD-data was (is?) slow, MD-audio can probably manage ~ 2MBit/s, to compete you need at LEAST 8MBit/s. (c) There is a resistance to multiple media standards. No one wants to end up with their data on an obsolete medium (8"floppy,5"floppy,A.N.Other tape c.). Given that there is already a mini-DVD format (I think), who's going to swallow ANOTHER similar sized incompatible format ? CD has been a hit, and I don't think it will go away any time soon. DVD looks like son-of-CD, but is still in it's querulous infancy viz: DVD-RW, DVD+RW etc. But DVD discs are too big to be portable. I'd like to see a 3" (pocket-sized) rewritable format, and something that can read old MD's would be great (like DVD drives reading CDs). But I think we may be left behind because MD never had enough penetration to be noticed. simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
How much space is on an data MD? Don't zips hold 100 or 200 MB? Yours, Dicky -- He who laughs last thinks slowest. A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory. -- http://classifieds.excite.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C187+R1275664 http://homepages.tesco.net/~xwizard/richard/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/richard_of_atlanta http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Castro/3420/ ICQ #: 56224965 Instant Messenger: bunnyphat - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
I don't know if you realize this, but this discussion is about the new MD-Data discs which can hold 650mb and which I assume to be quite fast. Does anybody have any specs on these? Ian On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Simon Barnes wrote: Bear in mind: (a) MD-data blanks still cost around 4x audio blanks (b) MD-data was (is?) slow, MD-audio can probably manage ~ 2MBit/s, to compete you need at LEAST 8MBit/s. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
Original data MDs hold 160mb. The new MD-Data2 discs hold 650mb and are currently being used in Sony's new "discam" camera. Old zips had a 100mb capacity, and there is a newer 250mb version out as well. Ian On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Richard Ian [iso-8859-1] Träcy wrote: How much space is on an data MD? Don't zips hold 100 or 200 MB? Yours, Dicky -- He who laughs last thinks slowest. A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory. -- http://classifieds.excite.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C187+R1275664 http://homepages.tesco.net/~xwizard/richard/ http://profiles.yahoo.com/richard_of_atlanta http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Castro/3420/ ICQ #: 56224965 Instant Messenger: bunnyphat - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
on 00.2.23 2:13 PM, Francisco Jose Montilla at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't forget a FireWire port! :) To be able to transfer from your DV or D8 camera directly to that device; standalone FireWire cards costs about $300, I'm sure that having the porte integrated on a mass production unit will lower a lot the costs... I'm definitely not going to spend $300 for having a couple of USB-alike ports, but will definitely spend those or more un such device: a multi-conector-cheap-reliable-media-multi-purpose mass storage device... $300 USD? I've seen a number of 1394 interface cards for well under $100 USD. $69.99 or something like that. -- Tony Kwong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To read English synopsis of Long Vacation and Oishii Kankei visit my JDRAMA pages at the following URL: http://members.xoom.com/tkmedia/dorama - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
From: Simon Mackay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MiniDisc Mailing List (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 5:51 AM Subject: MD: MD-Data2 as a "Zip killer" Hi everyone! When I first heard about the MD Data format being released by Sony, I thought that it would be a successful "B Drive". But Iomega went in around the time that Sony released MD Data and aggressively pushed their "Zip" disk on everyone. The factors that brought Zip as the primary "B drive" was the snappy name, the sexy blue case that the external drive came in and the way the earlier versions were able to connect via the parallel port on the average PC. This was exaggerated by the big-budget ad campaigns that they took out, with the goal of running it as a "loss-leader". Don't you think the fact that ZIP is about 40 times faster than MD may have had something to do with it? MD drives at that point were only equivelet to about 2x floppy drive speed. What Sony needs to do is promote the new MD-Data2 650Mb disc as a "B drive" is to market it as a "Zip killer". This would mean designing USB or SCSI external drives that work with current-generation PCs and Macs and are presented in sexy boxes; encouraging the Linux community to write Linux drivers for the MD-Data2 drives, providing software for playing (and perhaps editing or recording) regular audio MiniDiscs; and market it in a loss-leading way. Definately! To make it a good data storage drive though, it needs a drastic speed boost. Zip250 discs have over 2Mb per second transfer rates on the internat ATAPI models, so they're hard to compete with. The MD-Data2 discs could hold heaps of high-resolution digital images (especially in bitmap form), many projects worth of Word documents, one or two desktop publishing projects with all of the images for that project. And dual layer DVD-RW holds 5.2Gb, not too far off for computers now I would think MD is going to have a hard time competing in the computer marketplace. I think the reason superior technology fails to catch on quickly when Sony are in charge (ie Betamax and MD) are that Sony have the worst marketing department of any company I've come across, so naturally people are left not knowing what the units are capable of, and as a result buy something else. An interesting appliance concept for this medium would be a digital image view-download unit for use in the field. These devices, in a similar vein to Iomega's Clik digital-image-download device which fills 40Mb disks, would transfer images from a CompactFlash card or a SimartMedia card to an MD-Data2 disc (which holds 10 times the amount of the biggest CF card). This would allow a photographer to work at the highest resolution on one of the new 2.3 or above megapixel digital cameras for a long time without worrying about memory-card space. This comes in handy during weddings, holidays and other occasions where a lot of pictures are being taken and there is no chance of being able to download the images during the trip. That would be great, although wouldn't the new IBM micro-drives be a better substitute? By providing a built-in LCD screen in the device (which the Iomega Clik device doesn't have), it makes it possible to preview images taken during the past shoot, thus conserving the camera' batteries for taking pictures. LCD screens drain batteries very quickly, which is why I never use the LCD screen unless I have a few spare batteries or mains supply handy. I get about 12 hours work time from my single battery normally, but less than 2 with the LCD screen on. Raking a picture requires minimal battery power unless you use the flash. The most sensible implementation of this I've seen was on the Canon A-1 camcorder, where the colour hi-res LCD screen was inside the viewfinder and was only about 1cm wide, but it was enough to watch back clips and find edit points. The unit can support external video outputs so images can be viewed on a video monitor by a group or projected using a video projector. USB ports would be provided so the unit can be connected to a computer for image manipulation or to a printer, card drive (for other solid-state media) or scanner. As well, regular audio MiniDiscs can be played in the unit, with such facilities as an "at-a-glance" track index. Well, the size of it would make a laptop and web-cam a smaller substitute, but we can dream! Personally I think this would be a mistake for MD, as there are technologies on the horizon that would (once again) leave MD standing still. I'd settle for Sony actually marketing their existing products effectively!! Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROT
RE: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Simon Barnes wrote: Hi, Well, I guess it's pretty easy to make a zip/jaz/clik killer in terms of media price and reliability by simply using MD. It will not only be far superior to any Iomega device, but even MO devices (here having equal reliability), since media will be a lot cheaper... Bear in mind: (a) MD-data blanks still cost around 4x audio blanks That will probably go cheaper... (b) MD-data was (is?) slow, MD-audio can probably manage ~ 2MBit/s, to compete you need at LEAST 8MBit/s. Are you sure that the MD data used on that camera runs at that speed? Is perfectly possible... greets, *---(*)---**-- Francisco J. Montilla System Network administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] irc: pukkaSevilleSpain INSFLUG (LiNUX) Coordinator: www.insflug.org - ftp.insflug.org - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
=== The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === (b) MD-data was (is?) slow, MD-audio can probably manage ~ 2MBit/s, to compete you need at LEAST 8MBit/s. Are you sure that the MD data used on that camera runs at that speed? Is perfectly possible... He's saying megabits NOT megabytes. Do you realize how slow something is if it's transfer rate is measused in megabits?? Those numbers are not very impressive. LAS === MIME part removed : text/html; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: MD-Data2 as a Zip killer
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === I would buy it in an instance, if there is a MD data drive that uses MD's - Original Message - From: "Simon Mackay" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "MiniDisc Mailing List (E-mail)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 5:51 AM Subject: MD: MD-Data2 as a "Zip killer" === The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === Hi everyone! When I first heard about the MD Data format being released by Sony, I thought that it would be a successful "B Drive". But Iomega went in around the time that Sony released MD Data and aggressively pushed their "Zip" disk on everyone. The factors that brought Zip as the primary "B drive" was the snappy name, the sexy blue case that the external drive came in and the way the earlier versions were able to connect via the parallel port on the average PC. This was exaggerated by the big-budget ad campaigns that they took out, with the goal of running it as a "loss-leader". What Sony needs to do is promote the new MD-Data2 650Mb disc as a "B drive" is to market it as a "Zip killer". This would mean designing USB or SCSI external drives that work with current-generation PCs and Macs and are presented in sexy boxes; encouraging the Linux community to write Linux drivers for the MD-Data2 drives, providing software for playing (and perhaps editing or recording) regular audio MiniDiscs; and market it in a loss-leading way. The MD-Data2 discs could hold heaps of high-resolution digital images (especially in bitmap form), many projects worth of Word documents, one or two desktop publishing projects with all of the images for that project. An interesting appliance concept for this medium would be a digital image view-download unit for use in the field. These devices, in a similar vein to Iomega's Clik digital-image-download device which fills 40Mb disks, would transfer images from a CompactFlash card or a SimartMedia card to an MD-Data2 disc (which holds 10 times the amount of the biggest CF card). This would allow a photographer to work at the highest resolution on one of the new 2.3 or above megapixel digital cameras for a long time without worrying about memory-card space. This comes in handy during weddings, holidays and other occasions where a lot of pictures are being taken and there is no chance of being able to download the images during the trip. By providing a built-in LCD screen in the device (which the Iomega Clik device doesn't have), it makes it possible to preview images taken during the past shoot, thus conserving the camera' batteries for taking pictures. The unit can support external video outputs so images can be viewed on a video monitor by a group or projected using a video projector. USB ports would be provided so the unit can be connected to a computer for image manipulation or to a printer, card drive (for other solid-state media) or scanner. As well, regular audio MiniDiscs can be played in the unit, with such facilities as an "at-a-glance" track index. With regards, Simon Mackay === MIME part removed : text/html; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
