Re: MD: optical cords! Yes, there can be a difference.
=== = NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please = = be more selective when quoting text = === Hi Grover, You're making the same errors as I made once (1) The optical cables used for TosLink aren't fiber optic cables. They use a light conducting plastic. (2) The supported frequency is about 6Mbit/sec. Fiber optic connections in data and telecomunication (like an FDDI backbone) go beyond 100 Mbit/sec. (3) The length of the cable... TosLink is in most cases shorter than 2 meters. In telecomunications, optical connections are usual longer than 100 meters ( The limit for CAT5). Cheers, Ralph - You can't compare apples and oranges (and both are fruits!) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There can indeed be differences in fiber optic cables. The question is whether or not these differences will affect the sound. (I worked in the telecommunications and broadacst industries for many years teaching, amongst other things, fiberoptics.) The differences between "quality" and lesser cables will usually be mechanical, but this is not limited to quantification of strength. The problem with cables of poor quality may be their alignment within the connector housing. If the cables are misaligned, then the level of optical signal will go down. At some point, when the received signal is attenuated far enough, the bit error rate (BER) of the signal begins to increase and artifacts begin to show up in the recovered signal. Exactly what the receiving device does with digital signals in which there is a significant BER, depends upon the digital circuitry within the device. Another issue is that the fibre simply does not make a close coupling with the receiving diode because it is too far back in the housing. One of the demonstrations I used was to slowly attenuate the optical signal by pulling the cable out and watching the BER meter, at the same as listening to the recovered audio. Indeed, at some point the audio will become distorted and eventually disappear. Now will this in reality affect your audio signal? Attenuation of the optical signal due to misalignment or poor coupling might be a problem, but at the distances involved in out systems, there is plenty of overhead and it shouldn't have any affect. Additionally we are talking about our multimode optical cable, and alignment is simply not as critical as with the long-distance, high-bandwidth singlemode cables that are used in the broadcast and telecom industries. If you are really anal about all of this, then run this test: play through the optical cable and listen carefully as you slowly pull the optical connector (either end will do) out of the receptacle. You will probably be able to get a tenth of an inch out before you begin to lose the signal, maybe more. If you are getting a signal when you start this little test and you can move the connector out even a little and still get a signal, then you have enough optical power getting to the receiver. If you are really, really concerned, then you can always clean the ends of the cable with denatured alcohol. (Send pictures - I'd like a good laugh.) What this all really means is that you shouldn't worry about it. Enjoy the music. Iechyd da (that's "good health" in Welsh), Grover Cleveland www.llareggub.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: optical cords!
From: Magic can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords Guess what... you're just paying for the name brand. I'd hope that the end connectors and general quality of construction are better as well. I definitely will pay more to get better quality than the cable that came with my 520...but only because I figure that paying more now will prevent me having to completely replace it later, perhaps more than once. I believe that they certainly do sound the same, but I will pay more for a generally better made cable. That said, I won't go near the crazy prices for the 'high end' (read: snake oil) cables that promise the world. Rick. -+--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alienshore.com/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: optical cords!
Gary wrote: ... And if anyone tells you any different (i.e. an "Audiophile" magazine) you can be assured that they are lying to you in an attempt to become some sort of strange shaman or wizard of the audio world who can hear what you cannot, I suspect a lot of them are lying to themselves as well. People like to have an input. The "hard" viewpoint (to which I aspire) says digital is digital, the wires don't matter, the brand doesn't matter, we're constrained by the laws of physics - basically, it's a doctrine of despair. The audiophile is involved. Everything matters. You can make a real difference by balancing everything on spikes and using £100 per metre cables, colouring in the edges of your CD's. There's no end to the tips and tricks. Enjoy. simon - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: optical cords! Yes, there can be a difference.
There can indeed be differences in fiber optic cables. The question is whether or not these differences will affect the sound. (I worked in the telecommunications and broadacst industries for many years teaching, amongst other things, fiberoptics.) The differences between "quality" and lesser cables will usually be mechanical, but this is not limited to quantification of strength. The problem with cables of poor quality may be their alignment within the connector housing. If the cables are misaligned, then the level of optical signal will go down. At some point, when the received signal is attenuated far enough, the bit error rate (BER) of the signal begins to increase and artifacts begin to show up in the recovered signal. Exactly what the receiving device does with digital signals in which there is a significant BER, depends upon the digital circuitry within the device. Another issue is that the fibre simply does not make a close coupling with the receiving diode because it is too far back in the housing. One of the demonstrations I used was to slowly attenuate the optical signal by pulling the cable out and watching the BER meter, at the same as listening to the recovered audio. Indeed, at some point the audio will become distorted and eventually disappear. Now will this in reality affect your audio signal? Attenuation of the optical signal due to misalignment or poor coupling might be a problem, but at the distances involved in out systems, there is plenty of overhead and it shouldn't have any affect. Additionally we are talking about our multimode optical cable, and alignment is simply not as critical as with the long-distance, high-bandwidth singlemode cables that are used in the broadcast and telecom industries. If you are really anal about all of this, then run this test: play through the optical cable and listen carefully as you slowly pull the optical connector (either end will do) out of the receptacle. You will probably be able to get a tenth of an inch out before you begin to lose the signal, maybe more. If you are getting a signal when you start this little test and you can move the connector out even a little and still get a signal, then you have enough optical power getting to the receiver. If you are really, really concerned, then you can always clean the ends of the cable with denatured alcohol. (Send pictures - I'd like a good laugh.) What this all really means is that you shouldn't worry about it. Enjoy the music. Iechyd da (that's "good health" in Welsh), Grover Cleveland www.llareggub.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: optical cords!
In a message dated 1/13/00 6:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords when recording digitally using these cords has anyone actually tested out these cords or am i just paying for a name brand?? thanks This is the beauty of digital. NO! You can tell no difference in two different brands of anything that transmits digital signals. Now, maybe one brand of cable will be made of more transparent or better quality optics. All this means is that the more expensive cord will be able to transmit the signal over a longer distance of cord. So, unless you have a hankering to lay cable across the local body of water and digitally record from your home deck at the park, get the cheapest dern cable you can get. And if anyone tells you any different (i.e. an "Audiophile" magazine) you can be assured that they are lying to you in an attempt to become some sort of strange shaman or wizard of the audio world who can hear what you cannot, and can tell you what you need to buy to be like one of them. Pardon me. I just couldn't help myself. Gary - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: optical cords!
Nate Lao wrote: can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords when recording digitally using these cords Yes, I can tell the difference. I think it is around $25 each. I am glad they all sound the same. -- Jim Coon Not just another pretty mandolin picker mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If Gibson made cars, would they sound so sweet? My first web page http://www.tir.com/~liteways/ - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: optical cords!
From: Nate Lao [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 11:17 PM Subject: MD: optical cords! can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords when recording digitally using these cords has anyone actually tested out these cords or am i just paying for a name brand?? Guess what... you're just paying for the name brand. Magic -- "Creativity is more a birthright than an acquisition, and the power of sound is wisdom and understanding applied to the power of vibration." Location : Portsmouth, England, UK Homepage : http://www.mattnet.freeserve.co.uk EMail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: optical cords!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * "Nate Lao" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 13 Jan 2000 | can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical | cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords when recording | digitally using these cords has anyone actually tested out these cords | or am i just paying for a name brand?? Maybe... ... though it is more likely that you will get no signal at all rather than a "noisy" signal. Cheap patches will be made of cheap materials; they are more prone to failing than better quality equipment. It is usually more of an issue for digital coax than fibre, though, and an el-cheapo fibre patch will work just as well as a high grade patch for as long as it works at all. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE4fmTtgl+vIlSVSNkRAhVyAJ9/njbAOcLoahJgwE2rxjwdf79qDwCg8+dw 8r0jPBPB1DCmBOMTFGz4J/s= =r/+k -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: optical cords!
Haven't ever seen the cables you're talking about, but beyond being able to transmit a signal successfully, there's no real difference between optical (or coax) cable A and cable B - if it gets the signal from the source to the destination without introducing error (and I've yet to see a commercial cable that couldn't), it's good enough. Anything above and beyond that, IN TERMS OF SIGNAL QUALITY, is wasted money. I've seen a documented experiment where a guy took a rusty coat hanger with RCA plugs alligator-clipped to each end and used it as the digital audio link between his DVD and his preprocessor - worked like a champ (his preprocessor showed 0% error rate on the connection). Having said that, it's nice to get an optical cable with a sturdy jacket, to help prolong it's life crammed in with 50 other cables behind your hi-fi. Not necessary, but nice. Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] (change plural to singular to reply) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Nate Lao Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2000 3:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MD: optical cords! can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords when recording digitally using these cords has anyone actually tested out these cords or am i just paying for a name brand?? thanks __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: MD: optical cords!
But in this case, I believe he was referring strictly to an optical S/PDIF connection, and in which case, there are no differences, audibly speaking. Bits are still bits from start to finish and the only thing that can come of a cheaper cable is perhaps a shorter lifespan or even less resilience to fracturing of the actual glass fibres. I've been using el-cheapo optical cables for as long as I've been dealing in digital audio in professional applications without a hitch. You'll either get sound, or you won't. In the case of a coaxial connection, granted there are differences. It is then worth investing in a good quality 75 ohm lead for such connections to minimise the effects of electrical noise on the cable. On that, I do agree with you wholeheartedly. Bear in mind as well, that in the case of digital audio, digital outputs have nothing to do with the ADC/DAC stage as far as transferring the data from one digital audio device to another is concerned. The only time the DAC comes into play is when that digital audio has to be converted to an analogue output for the sake of plugging into an analogue device, such as an amplifier. Otherwise, in digital transfer, the ADC/DAC stages are skipped. Adios, LarZ --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matt Wall Sent: Friday, 14 January 2000 15:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: MD: optical cords! Sorry about this kids i have to very much so disagree with this statement that "you can tell no difference in two different brands of anything that transmits digital signals" there are many variables involved here that you should look into especially if you are using SPDIF digital and not optical. But anyway to start out with if i have 2 completely different systems that are outputting a digital signal and one uses a cheap/bad DAC and the other uses a high quality DAC there will be a large sound difference that one will notice. Next the statement that nothing will affect a digital signal, well that's just wrong also. If you are using a non optical digital courd there are many things that can affect the signals. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: optical cords!
Sorry about this kids i have to very much so disagree with this statement that "you can tell no difference in two different brands of anything that transmits digital signals" there are many variables involved here that you should look into especially if you are using SPDIF digital and not optical. But anyway to start out with if i have 2 completely different systems that are outputting a digital signal and one uses a cheap/bad DAC and the other uses a high quality DAC there will be a large sound difference that one will notice. Next the statement that nothing will affect a digital signal, well that's just wrong also. If you are using a non optical digital courd there are many things that can affect the signals. Shielding is very important on these because of that. Data can be distorted believe it or not. I will not go into specifics of this because nobody here really cares, just make sure you get something descent and not a cheap cord. Anyway just my 2 cents Later Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 11:04 PM Subject: Re: MD: optical cords! In a message dated 1/13/00 6:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: can anyone ACTUALLY tell the difference between the cheap recoton optical cords and the expensive sony and monster cable cords when recording digitally using these cords has anyone actually tested out these cords or am i just paying for a name brand?? thanks This is the beauty of digital. NO! You can tell no difference in two different brands of anything that transmits digital signals. Now, maybe one brand of cable will be made of more transparent or better quality optics. All this means is that the more expensive cord will be able to transmit the signal over a longer distance of cord. So, unless you have a hankering to lay cable across the local body of water and digitally record from your home deck at the park, get the cheapest dern cable you can get. And if anyone tells you any different (i.e. an "Audiophile" magazine) you can be assured that they are lying to you in an attempt to become some sort of strange shaman or wizard of the audio world who can hear what you cannot, and can tell you what you need to buy to be like one of them. Pardon me. I just couldn't help myself. Gary - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
