Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On 6/30/2011 10:11 AM, Dave Neary wrote: Developers seeing bugs that they are able to fix helps the bugs get fixed. If a module developer is searching for open bugs in "his" module and doesn't find any, then that's a problem. exactly; this is what the change is solving; each source package (which is the ultimate unit that has an owner, and tends to map basically 1:1 to upstream git repos/etc) has now its own component and owner. (and with the option to now getting CC'd for specific packages etc etc). Ways to solve the problem would be for the developer to search for something else (bugs owned by meta_ow...@meego.bugs or whatever) or using Bugzilla as it was intended, and assigning bugs to the developer who can fix them - in which case, the developer will see the bugs he can fix under "My bugs". exactly what this is change is about; now that we have one component per package, we can assign real owners to these bugs rather than dummies who own whole areas that actually have dozens of underneath-owners. it's also triagers/qa getting the reporter to put all the needed info there etc etc etc. A vital part of triage is getting a bug report under the eyes of someone but only once you know where it is no point broadcasting all bugs to all developers ;-) so that is what this part of the change is about; that new bugs start in a triage phase (not assigned yet to specific packages) and the triager works with the reporter to get sufficient information into the bug, and then to assign it to the package where the bug most likely is (which also changes the bug owner to the owner of that package, and adds everyone on the package watch list to the bug etc) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 19:11 +0200, Dave Neary wrote: > Ways to solve the problem would be for the developer to search for > something else (bugs owned by meta_ow...@meego.bugs or whatever) That would also make it easier to follow components that one is interested in contributing to while NOT being the maintainer (and maybe default assignee). Covered by https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6731 . andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) http://www.openismus.com ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
Hi, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > anything that leads to the bug getting fixed is value. that's not just > what developers do... Developers seeing bugs that they are able to fix helps the bugs get fixed. If a module developer is searching for open bugs in "his" module and doesn't find any, then that's a problem. Ways to solve the problem would be for the developer to search for something else (bugs owned by meta_ow...@meego.bugs or whatever) or using Bugzilla as it was intended, and assigning bugs to the developer who can fix them - in which case, the developer will see the bugs he can fix under "My bugs". > it's also triagers/qa getting the reporter to put all the needed info > there etc etc etc. A vital part of triage is getting a bug report under the eyes of someone able to fix the bug. In this case, I'm sure that we can agree that the triage was sub-optimal, in that it removed open bugs from the view of the developer who could fix it. Cheers, Dave. -- Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
As long as the bugs are assigned to the original reporter, would they not be filed with them? Having descriptive bug reports does matter to the developer, if the problem is not described, how can we fix it? I come from a Bugzilla background so would this also not apply here? On 30/06/2011 15:13, Arjan van de Ven wrote: On 6/30/2011 7:10 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: ext Arjan van de Ven writes: On 6/29/2011 11:57 PM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: I hear you but isn't moving a bug to another component an important enough event it's worth recording it in an inline comment on the bug? I would say not. the component is metadata and does not add value to the bug itself Then why do we have it in the first place, and why is there such a fuzz when it changes? It clearly matters, mostly to make sure that the right people are looking at the right bugs. Half of my brain is swapped out to Bugzilla, and if you move a bug out of my searches, it is as if it had never existed. but since you're the owner of that bug... your query for "bugs assigned to me" doesn't change, right? (and now that we have proper per-package bugs, you can even search for "my project", what you could not do before) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On 6/30/2011 7:10 AM, Marius Vollmer wrote: ext Arjan van de Ven writes: On 6/29/2011 11:57 PM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: I hear you but isn't moving a bug to another component an important enough event it's worth recording it in an inline comment on the bug? I would say not. the component is metadata and does not add value to the bug itself Then why do we have it in the first place, and why is there such a fuzz when it changes? It clearly matters, mostly to make sure that the right people are looking at the right bugs. Half of my brain is swapped out to Bugzilla, and if you move a bug out of my searches, it is as if it had never existed. but since you're the owner of that bug... your query for "bugs assigned to me" doesn't change, right? (and now that we have proper per-package bugs, you can even search for "my project", what you could not do before) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
ext Arjan van de Ven writes: > On 6/29/2011 11:57 PM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: >> >> I hear you but isn't moving a bug to another component an important enough >> event it's worth recording it in an inline comment on the bug? > > I would say not. the component is metadata and does not add value to > the bug itself Then why do we have it in the first place, and why is there such a fuzz when it changes? It clearly matters, mostly to make sure that the right people are looking at the right bugs. Half of my brain is swapped out to Bugzilla, and if you move a bug out of my searches, it is as if it had never existed. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On 6/30/2011 7:02 AM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: I have a very simple idea on bugs; the value of a bug lies in its ability to fix something in the OS that makes the OS better. Anything else around the bug is either neutral or overhead. Now that you put it this way, I'm more than convinced that nothing but value should matter in bug reports though I'm a bit skeptical on what it actually means for other target population than developers. Hopefully, QA and other average users won't contribute too much to what can be perceived as noise with their activities, questions ,etc... anything that leads to the bug getting fixed is value. that's not just what developers do... it's also triagers/qa getting the reporter to put all the needed info there etc etc etc. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
Hi Arjan, On 6/30/11 4:41 PM, "ext Arjan van de Ven" wrote: >On 6/29/2011 11:57 PM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: >> >> I hear you but isn't moving a bug to another component an important >>enough >> event it's worth recording it in an inline comment on the bug? > >I would say not. the component is metadata and does not add value to the >bug itself >it doesn't help in any way shape or form in getting it fixed. > >I have a very simple idea on bugs; the value of a bug lies in its >ability to fix something in the OS >that makes the OS better. Anything else around the bug is either neutral >or overhead. > >it's not just about the readability of the bug itself (which is >important); it is about the readability >of my, and every developers, bugzilla email folder. If the >signal-to-noise ratio of that folder is not >high enough, I'm sorry but it will get ignored. > > >Changing some bits in a database, which are just bits on a spinning >piece of rust, that has the effect >of changing components does not add value in any way, shape or form in >my definition of bug value above... >... and thus is "noise" in the bug mail folder. Now that you put it this way, I'm more than convinced that nothing but value should matter in bug reports though I'm a bit skeptical on what it actually means for other target population than developers. Hopefully, QA and other average users won't contribute too much to what can be perceived as noise with their activities, questions ,etc... Cheers, Eric ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On 6/29/2011 11:57 PM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: I hear you but isn't moving a bug to another component an important enough event it's worth recording it in an inline comment on the bug? I would say not. the component is metadata and does not add value to the bug itself it doesn't help in any way shape or form in getting it fixed. I have a very simple idea on bugs; the value of a bug lies in its ability to fix something in the OS that makes the OS better. Anything else around the bug is either neutral or overhead. it's not just about the readability of the bug itself (which is important); it is about the readability of my, and every developers, bugzilla email folder. If the signal-to-noise ratio of that folder is not high enough, I'm sorry but it will get ignored. Changing some bits in a database, which are just bits on a spinning piece of rust, that has the effect of changing components does not add value in any way, shape or form in my definition of bug value above... ... and thus is "noise" in the bug mail folder. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
Hi Arjan, On 6/29/11 4:41 PM, "ext Arjan van de Ven" wrote: >On 6/29/2011 2:05 AM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: >> So I guess you could remind anyone on your side involved into moving the >> bugs that it's mandatory to at least put a comment with the reasoning >> behind the action. > >so as a user of bugzilla I strongly disagree with your statement. >I use the "filter bug mail" feature so that I only get bugmail on >important events (real new information added, not just noisy bookkeeping >things) >that feature gets completely and utterly destroyed if the QA person, in >addition to the actual change, also puts in "I changed this" as comment. >(and that comment adds absolutely zero value) I hear you but isn't moving a bug to another component an important enough event it's worth recording it in an inline comment on the bug? I agree some of the QA activities may not bring added value to the report itself and if too many alter the readability but I think moving bugs deserves clear documentation e.g. Why someone makes decision to move it... BR, Eric ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 06:41 -0700, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 6/29/2011 2:05 AM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: > > So I guess you could remind anyone on your side involved into moving the > > bugs that it's mandatory to at least put a comment with the reasoning > > behind the action. > > so as a user of bugzilla I strongly disagree with your statement. > I use the "filter bug mail" feature so that I only get bugmail on > important events (real new information added, not just noisy bookkeeping > things) > that feature gets completely and utterly destroyed if the QA person, in > addition to the actual change, also puts in "I changed this" as comment. > (and that comment adds absolutely zero value) True for trivial stuff like CC or Assignee changes (plus that's configurable in personal bugmail settings). Wrong for on-trivial stuff like this case (moving a larger bunch of reports to a completely different product and not finding bug reports anymore by querying for only the previous product). Adding a "moving to product $blah as announced in $mailing-list-post-url; filter for this" comment isn't hard, and filtering your bugmail for it isn't either, right? andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) http://www.openismus.com ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
On 6/29/2011 2:05 AM, eric.le-r...@nokia.com wrote: So I guess you could remind anyone on your side involved into moving the bugs that it's mandatory to at least put a comment with the reasoning behind the action. so as a user of bugzilla I strongly disagree with your statement. I use the "filter bug mail" feature so that I only get bugmail on important events (real new information added, not just noisy bookkeeping things) that feature gets completely and utterly destroyed if the QA person, in addition to the actual change, also puts in "I changed this" as comment. (and that comment adds absolutely zero value) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
Hi, On 6/29/11 11:33 AM, "ext Zhao, Fan" wrote: >> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:15 PM >> Marius Vollmer wrote: >> >> "ext Zhao, Fan" writes: >> >> >> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 3:13 PM >> >> Marius Vollmer wrote: >> >> >> >> "ext Zhao, Fan" writes: >> >> >> >> > The purpose of the "MeeGo Distribution Packages" product is to >>provide >> >> > an option for people to report/triage bugs to packages, and it's >>setup >> >> > for 1.3 bug reporting at this moment. >> >> >> >> Creating a new product is nice, but it is different from moving >>existing >> >> bugs into it en masse. This mass moving was not announced, as far >>as I >> >> can see. It is impolite to massively move bugs around without >> >> cooperating with the 'owners' of those bugs. >> >> >> >> Or maybe I misunderstand. In any case, the direction is right, so >>maybe >> >> we can live with some bumps on the way. >> > >> > Mass movement of bugs is not expected at this moment. >> >> So why is Michael saying the following then: >> >> I wondered why bugs for our component, the virtual keyboard, were >> moved to newly created components without prior announcement, nor >> explanations. >> >> Here is an example of a bug that was moved without a comment: >> >> https://bugs.meego.com/show_activity.cgi?id=15554 >> >> Anyway, none of my business, so I shut up. :) > >I just did a search, around 15 VKB bugs were moved to the new product, so >I don't think it's mass movement. If there are problems for that >component, let's solve the specific problem, but let's not overshade the >general direction. The point here isn't about the administrative task of moving bugs with the "change several bugs at once" bugzilla feature but making sure that an appropriate comment is attached to the bugs. So I guess you could remind anyone on your side involved into moving the bugs that it's mandatory to at least put a comment with the reasoning behind the action. In this case, yanshuang.zh...@intel.com needs to be reminded. Doing so will generate an email notification to anyone having incentive on the bug. Of course, announcements on the ML are good but as we all know, it's simply not enough as Michael and Marius point out... > >Thanks for bringing it up anyway. Another point is that one could actually challenge why some bugs were moved there if the purpose is to monitor 1.3 release. IMHO anything done already doesn't need to move, does it? Just verified and closed is largely enough. > >Thanks, >Fan Cheers, Eric >___ >MeeGo-dev mailing list >MeeGo-dev@meego.com >http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev >http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:15 PM > Marius Vollmer wrote: > > "ext Zhao, Fan" writes: > > >> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 3:13 PM > >> Marius Vollmer wrote: > >> > >> "ext Zhao, Fan" writes: > >> > >> > The purpose of the "MeeGo Distribution Packages" product is to provide > >> > an option for people to report/triage bugs to packages, and it's setup > >> > for 1.3 bug reporting at this moment. > >> > >> Creating a new product is nice, but it is different from moving existing > >> bugs into it en masse. This mass moving was not announced, as far as I > >> can see. It is impolite to massively move bugs around without > >> cooperating with the 'owners' of those bugs. > >> > >> Or maybe I misunderstand. In any case, the direction is right, so maybe > >> we can live with some bumps on the way. > > > > Mass movement of bugs is not expected at this moment. > > So why is Michael saying the following then: > > I wondered why bugs for our component, the virtual keyboard, were > moved to newly created components without prior announcement, nor > explanations. > > Here is an example of a bug that was moved without a comment: > > https://bugs.meego.com/show_activity.cgi?id=15554 > > Anyway, none of my business, so I shut up. :) I just did a search, around 15 VKB bugs were moved to the new product, so I don't think it's mass movement. If there are problems for that component, let's solve the specific problem, but let's not overshade the general direction. Thanks for bringing it up anyway. Thanks, Fan ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
"ext Zhao, Fan" writes: >> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 3:13 PM >> Marius Vollmer wrote: >> >> "ext Zhao, Fan" writes: >> >> > The purpose of the "MeeGo Distribution Packages" product is to provide >> > an option for people to report/triage bugs to packages, and it's setup >> > for 1.3 bug reporting at this moment. >> >> Creating a new product is nice, but it is different from moving existing >> bugs into it en masse. This mass moving was not announced, as far as I >> can see. It is impolite to massively move bugs around without >> cooperating with the 'owners' of those bugs. >> >> Or maybe I misunderstand. In any case, the direction is right, so maybe >> we can live with some bumps on the way. > > Mass movement of bugs is not expected at this moment. So why is Michael saying the following then: I wondered why bugs for our component, the virtual keyboard, were moved to newly created components without prior announcement, nor explanations. Here is an example of a bug that was moved without a comment: https://bugs.meego.com/show_activity.cgi?id=15554 Anyway, none of my business, so I shut up. :) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
> Wednesday, June 29, 2011 3:13 PM > Marius Vollmer wrote: > > "ext Zhao, Fan" writes: > > > The purpose of the "MeeGo Distribution Packages" product is to provide > > an option for people to report/triage bugs to packages, and it's setup > > for 1.3 bug reporting at this moment. > > Creating a new product is nice, but it is different from moving existing > bugs into it en masse. This mass moving was not announced, as far as I > can see. It is impolite to massively move bugs around without > cooperating with the 'owners' of those bugs. > > Or maybe I misunderstand. In any case, the direction is right, so maybe > we can live with some bumps on the way. Mass movement of bugs is not expected at this moment. Maybe 1.2.1 release is a good timing to do that. Currently, let's start from reporting/triaging new 1.3 bugs to that product when we have the needs. Thanks, Fan ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
"ext Zhao, Fan" writes: > The purpose of the "MeeGo Distribution Packages" product is to provide > an option for people to report/triage bugs to packages, and it's setup > for 1.3 bug reporting at this moment. Creating a new product is nice, but it is different from moving existing bugs into it en masse. This mass moving was not announced, as far as I can see. It is impolite to massively move bugs around without cooperating with the 'owners' of those bugs. Or maybe I misunderstand. In any case, the direction is right, so maybe we can live with some bumps on the way. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" has been created.
Forwarding... In case you were not aware of the announcement. The purpose of the "MeeGo Distribution Packages" product is to provide an option for people to report/triage bugs to packages, and it's setup for 1.3 bug reporting at this moment. Thanks, Fan > -Original Message- > From: meego-releases-boun...@meego.com > [mailto:meego-releases-boun...@meego.com] On Behalf Of Wan, Shuang > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 1:31 PM > To: Collaboration list for Release Engineering and QA teams (moderated > discussion list) > Cc: meego...@lists.meego.com > Subject: [meego-releases] New Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution > Packages" has been created. > > Hello All, > > To response the requirement of report bugs into MeeGo distribution packages > directly, we have added a new Bugzilla product "MeeGo Distribution > Packages". The story under this requirement is to make it easier to find the > right bug owner and improve Bugzilla reporting usability. > > This is the first step for MeeGo Bugzilla structure enhancements. Users are > encouraged to report bugs into this product for trunk image. For 1.2 image > bugs, users are encouraged to use existing products continually considering > MeeGo 1.2 is still under heavy development and we don't want to make > disruptions due to this change. > Please refer bellow requests for this change itself: > https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19369 > Feature 19369 - [FEA] Create a product "MeeGo Distribution Packages" > > We will continue to work on following enhancements and will come back when > new prototype is ready: > 1) Security bug reporting and isolation enhancement; > 2) New bug reporting usability enhancements for normal users; > 3) Search enhancements: Query bugs based on the packages' domain and > support package with domain M:M mapping; > 4) Finalize if use new status SUBMITTED. > > The overall plan to make all new structure enhancements ready is when 1.2.1 > branched, please refer bellow feature request: > https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18308 > Feature 18308 - [FEA] Enhance MeeGo Bugzilla component structure > > Welcome your feedbacks! > > Thanks > > MeeGo error management team > Shuang ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
