Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 23 Jun 2010, at 18:29, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > netbooks are at least sometimes used on power. > mobile phones and tablets are otoh almost only really used on battery. I typically use my netbook in much the same way as I do my iPhone. that is, it's in my pack. It's in standby most of the time, I open it to do somethings, close it. Use it on the bus etc. When I get home, it gets plugged in while asleep and charges overnight for the next day. I only ever really use it on power if I'm doing a system upgrade or something. So battery life even on a netbook is of high importance. 2ยข -- Glen Gray ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 10:24 AM, Dave Neary wrote: but your phone and tablet almost always are only used on battery. So basically you now have degraded behavior all the time the user is using the device. sounds like a really bad plan to me. There's the bandwidth issue, which is separate - and there are codecs that can adaptively change their bandwidth usage. But yeah, I think that there are apps where it's appropriate to have a lesser user experience for someone who's not on A/C. bandwidth is 100% orthogonal. Scaling behavior with available bandwidth (or cost of bandwidth) is perfectly legit and based on something real. the difference between 5 minutes and 30 minutes is not power visible to be honest; this would be a "how am I connected" tradeoff not a power one. And .. half an hour on all phones all the time? you're kidding ;) Without getting into the details... the principle stands. And again, I see the bandwidth issue as only one parameter. The key is "do less". Just out of interest, do you see half an hour as too far apart, or too close together? I'm having trouble figuring out. waay too far apart. Users will not accept that if their phone is 30 minutes behind on email and twitter and .. and .. i can go on and on, but... with devices being almost always on battery, and your examples very visibly and annoyingly degrading the experience... (and often NOT being about AC/Battery but about where the device is at that point in time) Meh. I guess we have different ideas about what "degrading" means. I think the user experience you expect does change if you're on the move. Of course, if you're thinking about a laptop, you might consider some of the ideas here annoying. But I definitely think that the use-case when you have a phone in your pocket or on a charger is different than a netbook. Perhaps you're falling into "All the world's a netbook" thinking a little? absolutely not. In fact I think you are ;-) netbooks are at least sometimes used on power. mobile phones and tablets are otoh almost only really used on battery. people tend to charge it at night when they're not using it. people tend to disconnect that annoying wire/take it out of the cradle when starting to use it and when the phone is actually charging, it matters again (due to the thermal constraints) phone-in-pocket is an interesting case for sure, but that's an idle case, and there is no tradeoff there to be made realistically. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 06/23/2010 08:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote:
Hi,
Rob Staudinger wrote:
On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 14:06 +0100, Dave Neary wrote:
Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do
even less.
What would be even more helpful than going back and forth
"apps should know about battery" ..
"no they should not" ..
"but they need to" ..
would be if people who have concerns about their apps would bring actual
use-cases forward.
I agree :) Didn't realise I was going to be starting a ruckus.
I agree with Arjen that if your app is going to be in a context where
power is important, then you should just make power usage a top priority
regardless of "on A/C" or "not on A/C". But with netbooks and mobile
phones, we'll clearly be in a situation where some portion of the usage
time will be on A/C and in those situations, saving battery is not an
issue (general "being a good citizen" still is, of course).
Once the tradeoff between user experience and power consumption is clear
for a certain case it will be much easier to decide whether AC/battery
status information is needed.
Here's a few examples that come to mind:
* Video player - wants to give best experience possible when on A/C, so
goes with HD, high frame rate - but when on battery, reduces video
quality& frame rate to use less energy
* Email application that checks for& downloads email every minute/5
minutes when you're hooked to A/C, but only every half an hour when on
the move
* Wifi detection that updates very regularly when on A/C, but only
occasionally (or after manual request) when on battery
* Screensaver that goes from "nice attractive eye candy" when on A/C to
"blank screen" (or suspend) when on the move
* Window manager automatically turning off knobs& whistles& 3d effects
when on battery
etc. etc.
There are lots of situations where when you're on A/C you expect instant
updates, and when you're on the move they're just not that important.
And those are opportunities to adapt your user experience to be less
featureful, and thus less power-hungry.
most of this list is not even applicable to handsets, and really, only
applicable to geekstations (let's just use that term for workstations
which never make it into C2 or deeper, and run some form of cows or seti).
Yeah, this post is a bit sarcastic, sorry about that :)
I can probably pick each item in this list apart easily. Wifi usually
updates ten times per second if not more, even with power management
features enabled. I don't think more updates per second will help anyone.
Even on my home geekstation with a 30 inch LCD screen, I want the damn
screen to go off so it doesn't suck 100W when I take a quick break :)
(Mind you, my wife has one too so it shows in the electricity bill if
the screensaver on one of them is not functional and lights up my living
room at night).
Window manager knobs and whistles would consume cpu power when doing
normal work, therefore degrading the performance of the system while on
A/C power, thus lowering the overall response and hindering other
applications - so window manager bells and whistles need to be fast and
power efficient (3d hardware accelerated, short, responsive ones offer
great return on that. blatant throwing cpu power at this is just going
to get in your way, and makes people use twm).
e-mail, now there is a valid point. The big problem is here that unix
mail technologies aren't very good at PUSH mail. Only IMAP supports it
and most clients ignore that. This is an issue with the underlying
system. But, then again, keeping a TCP connection open and once-a-minute
writing 30 characters to that is really not that power costly, is it?
almost always, in the long run, coding power-efficient algorithms as the
default and only solution, will work the best for everyone.
I have yet to see an algorithm where "if (on_ac_power) {" does something
anyone in my household excluding my 2 cats would really appreciate :)
BTW, the favorite spot in the house for one of my cats is on top of the
cabinet that holds our set-top-box for cable TV even when it's off,
it still produces a ton of heat.
I think the main problem with everyone coding for mobile is that they
see a "pot of gold" at the end of the rainbow when "coding for power
use" comes up, as if you can do amazing new things with a system when
you plug in (or unplug) the power cord. This of course is completely false.
Auke
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
Hi, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 6/23/2010 8:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote: >> Here's a few examples that come to mind: >> >> * Video player - wants to give best experience possible when on A/C, so >> goes with HD, high frame rate - but when on battery, reduces video >> quality& frame rate to use less energy > > but your phone and tablet almost always are only used on battery. So > basically you now have degraded behavior > all the time the user is using the device. sounds like a really bad plan > to me. There's the bandwidth issue, which is separate - and there are codecs that can adaptively change their bandwidth usage. But yeah, I think that there are apps where it's appropriate to have a lesser user experience for someone who's not on A/C. > the difference between 5 minutes and 30 minutes is not power visible to > be honest; this would be a "how am I connected" tradeoff not a power one. > And .. half an hour on all phones all the time? you're kidding ;) Without getting into the details... the principle stands. And again, I see the bandwidth issue as only one parameter. The key is "do less". Just out of interest, do you see half an hour as too far apart, or too close together? I'm having trouble figuring out. > i can go on and on, but... with devices being almost always on battery, > and your examples very visibly and annoyingly degrading the experience... > (and often NOT being about AC/Battery but about where the device is > at that point in time) Meh. I guess we have different ideas about what "degrading" means. I think the user experience you expect does change if you're on the move. Of course, if you're thinking about a laptop, you might consider some of the ideas here annoying. But I definitely think that the use-case when you have a phone in your pocket or on a charger is different than a netbook. Perhaps you're falling into "All the world's a netbook" thinking a little? Cheers, Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On Wednesday 23 June 2010 14:31:12 Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 6/23/2010 4:26 AM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: > > Hi, > > > > three things coming to my mind. > > > > 1. we cant guarantee that third party application development will be > > well behaved. > > well we'll find these, and point them out to the user > so that the user will just not buy such bad apps from the app store ! > > Authors of apps have an economic incentive to get their app right > (this is true on say Android today as well) One of the first apps I downloaded from the N900 Extras-Devel repository ended up eating all RAM on my device. I woke up one morning and it was unusable. Solution: removed it, for good. Such apps in the store would get quickly negative rating. And as a matter of commercial sense, those apps should be screened out too. -- Thiago Macieira - thiago (AT) macieira.info - thiago (AT) kde.org Senior Product Manager - Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks PGP/GPG: 0x6EF45358; fingerprint: E067 918B B660 DBD1 105C 966C 33F5 F005 6EF4 5358 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 06/23/2010 04:33 AM, Gary Birkett wrote: On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Arjan van de Ven wrote: correct. there are, by design, no special APIs in MeeGo for applications to be power friendly. It must be sufficient for an application to be well behaving [*] for it to be power friendly in MeeGo. would it be wise to document all the best practices in one place though? as I referred to before, check lesswatts.org Auke ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 10:00 AM, Graham Cobb wrote:
It should be up to the app developer. If they have a neat idea for how to
adjust behaviour dependent on whatever they feel are the appropriate
parameters (power, temperature, connectivity, time since last update, what I
had for breakfast...) then they should be able to do it. The system should
provide the information the app developer needs to implement their ideas and
the users will judge them.
the information if you're on battery/etc is obviously available; there
are very legitimate uses for that
(just to mention the most obvious one: the icon that shows how much
battery you have left).
Just it's not what we want to recommend to app writers to use in power
scenarios.
I *could* see a point of a am_I_power_sensitive() function somewhere
(which takes more into account than just ac/battery)
however I can also write it with 95% accuracy as
int am_I_power_sensisitive(void)
{
return 1;
}
that's correct for servers and phones that are discharging or charging,
and many other scenarios ;-)
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On Wednesday 23 June 2010 16:24:39 Arjan van de Ven wrote: > i can go on and on, but... with devices being almost always on battery, > and your examples very visibly and annoyingly degrading the experience... > (and often NOT being about AC/Battery but about where the device is > at that point in time) You may be right. But, on the other hand, you may not be. I want the system to enable great and innovative ideas for apps. Unfortunately, that also means it enables crappy and useless ideas. So be it. Let the users decide which app behaviours they prefer: the apps the users prefer will win. It should be up to the app developer. If they have a neat idea for how to adjust behaviour dependent on whatever they feel are the appropriate parameters (power, temperature, connectivity, time since last update, what I had for breakfast...) then they should be able to do it. The system should provide the information the app developer needs to implement their ideas and the users will judge them. They may even be developing an app which is completely different to the way anyone on this list expected the device to be used. Great! Graham P.S. Personally I think that after the hype about the iPad has died down, tablets will go back to being kitchen devices -- normally sitting in a charging rack, picked up for a few minutes to walk around the kitchen measuring out ingredients, etc. So, they will spend most of their time connected to power, although not necessarily to a high speed network. I might be wrong -- I have been before :-) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 8:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote: I agree with Arjen that if your app is going to be in a context where power is important, then you should just make power usage a top priority regardless of "on A/C" or "not on A/C". But with netbooks and mobile phones, we'll clearly be in a situation where some portion of the usage time will be on A/C and in those situations, saving battery is not an issue (general "being a good citizen" still is, of course). other than while charging being in a thermal sensisitve environment you mean ;) Once the tradeoff between user experience and power consumption is clear for a certain case it will be much easier to decide whether AC/battery status information is needed. Here's a few examples that come to mind: * Video player - wants to give best experience possible when on A/C, so goes with HD, high frame rate - but when on battery, reduces video quality& frame rate to use less energy but your phone and tablet almost always are only used on battery. So basically you now have degraded behavior all the time the user is using the device. sounds like a really bad plan to me. * Email application that checks for& downloads email every minute/5 minutes when you're hooked to A/C, but only every half an hour when on the move the difference between 5 minutes and 30 minutes is not power visible to be honest; this would be a "how am I connected" tradeoff not a power one. And .. half an hour on all phones all the time? you're kidding ;) i can go on and on, but... with devices being almost always on battery, and your examples very visibly and annoyingly degrading the experience... (and often NOT being about AC/Battery but about where the device is at that point in time) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
Hi, Rob Staudinger wrote: > On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 14:06 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: >> Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do >> even less. > > What would be even more helpful than going back and forth > "apps should know about battery" .. > "no they should not" .. > "but they need to" .. > would be if people who have concerns about their apps would bring actual > use-cases forward. I agree :) Didn't realise I was going to be starting a ruckus. I agree with Arjen that if your app is going to be in a context where power is important, then you should just make power usage a top priority regardless of "on A/C" or "not on A/C". But with netbooks and mobile phones, we'll clearly be in a situation where some portion of the usage time will be on A/C and in those situations, saving battery is not an issue (general "being a good citizen" still is, of course). > Once the tradeoff between user experience and power consumption is clear > for a certain case it will be much easier to decide whether AC/battery > status information is needed. Here's a few examples that come to mind: * Video player - wants to give best experience possible when on A/C, so goes with HD, high frame rate - but when on battery, reduces video quality & frame rate to use less energy * Email application that checks for & downloads email every minute/5 minutes when you're hooked to A/C, but only every half an hour when on the move * Wifi detection that updates very regularly when on A/C, but only occasionally (or after manual request) when on battery * Screensaver that goes from "nice attractive eye candy" when on A/C to "blank screen" (or suspend) when on the move * Window manager automatically turning off knobs & whistles & 3d effects when on battery etc. etc. There are lots of situations where when you're on A/C you expect instant updates, and when you're on the move they're just not that important. And those are opportunities to adapt your user experience to be less featureful, and thus less power-hungry. Cheers, Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 6:32 AM, Arjan van de Ven wrote: On 6/23/2010 6:27 AM, Rob Staudinger wrote: On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 14:06 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: [...] Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do even less. What would be even more helpful than going back and forth "apps should know about battery" .. "no they should not" .. "but they need to" .. would be if people who have concerns about their apps would bring actual use-cases forward. Once the tradeoff between user experience and power consumption is clear there are generally tradeoffs, sure. but battery tends to be not the right input to that. ask any datacenter operator. but even on phones most often performance is temperature limited, as is battery charging. if you suddenly make the phone hot due to heavy cpu work, your battery will charge slower. And/or you may have less capacity to raise the cpu speed due to the system being warmer already. _ btw one thing to add; if you degrade the user experience (that's what "tradeoff" implies) on batter, you need to also come to grips with the mobile usage model; it's not unthinkable that a large portion of mobile device users (be it phone or tablet) is using his device only ever on battery (and charges his/her device when he's not using it). That'd basically mean that you provide a 100% degraded experience to a sizeable portion of your userbase. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 6:27 AM, Rob Staudinger wrote: On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 14:06 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: [...] Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do even less. What would be even more helpful than going back and forth "apps should know about battery" .. "no they should not" .. "but they need to" .. would be if people who have concerns about their apps would bring actual use-cases forward. Once the tradeoff between user experience and power consumption is clear there are generally tradeoffs, sure. but battery tends to be not the right input to that. ask any datacenter operator. but even on phones most often performance is temperature limited, as is battery charging. if you suddenly make the phone hot due to heavy cpu work, your battery will charge slower. And/or you may have less capacity to raise the cpu speed due to the system being warmer already. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 6:06 AM, Dave Neary wrote: Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do even less. absolutely not! this is the wrong tradeoff. really. if you can do less legitimately... always do less. not just when on battery ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On Wed, 2010-06-23 at 14:06 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: [...] > Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do > even less. What would be even more helpful than going back and forth "apps should know about battery" .. "no they should not" .. "but they need to" .. would be if people who have concerns about their apps would bring actual use-cases forward. Once the tradeoff between user experience and power consumption is clear for a certain case it will be much easier to decide whether AC/battery status information is needed. Best, Rob -- Intel Open Source Technology Centre http://oss.intel.com/ ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
FO On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Dave Neary wrote: > Hi, > > Gary Birkett wrote: > > would it be wise to document all the best practices in one place though? > > Best practices, and tools you can use to identify, characterise and fix > power issues. > > This has at least 3 different facades: > > * Do less stuff > - Use the right algorithms > - Don't do things you don't have to > - Don't poll needlessly > * Work smarter > - Handle events asynchronously > - Be aware of trade-off between pre-calculating and working on-demand > * Have a tuned system > - All the stuff powertop can find - allow devices & system components > to switch off/suspend when not in use, increase buffering & writeback > time, etc, etc > > The third one is the black magic stuff that I don't understand (and the > only one addressed by lesswatts.org apparently). I do know that there's > not much that an application developer can do at that level to ensure > their app behaves well, but we can certainly ensure that apps are doing > less and behaving correctly as good citizens when handling user > interaction, wake-ups, signals, handling I/O, etc. > > I'd appreciate someone putting a guide together for those types of > issues personally. > > > also for applications to be well behaved, they should know something > > about their environment > > to that end should know where to look for the charging status for > instance > > if the devices have a power profile available, the api to access this > > should be documented and clearly stated > > I believe that sort of information is what Narendranath Ghosh was > requesting. > > Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do > even less. > > Cheers, > Dave. > > -- > maemo.org docsmaster > Email: dne...@maemo.org > Jabber: bo...@jabber.org > > ___ > MeeGo-dev mailing list > MeeGo-dev@meego.com > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev > -- Thanks and Kind Regards, Mahendra Panpalia ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
Hi, Gary Birkett wrote: > would it be wise to document all the best practices in one place though? Best practices, and tools you can use to identify, characterise and fix power issues. This has at least 3 different facades: * Do less stuff - Use the right algorithms - Don't do things you don't have to - Don't poll needlessly * Work smarter - Handle events asynchronously - Be aware of trade-off between pre-calculating and working on-demand * Have a tuned system - All the stuff powertop can find - allow devices & system components to switch off/suspend when not in use, increase buffering & writeback time, etc, etc The third one is the black magic stuff that I don't understand (and the only one addressed by lesswatts.org apparently). I do know that there's not much that an application developer can do at that level to ensure their app behaves well, but we can certainly ensure that apps are doing less and behaving correctly as good citizens when handling user interaction, wake-ups, signals, handling I/O, etc. I'd appreciate someone putting a guide together for those types of issues personally. > also for applications to be well behaved, they should know something > about their environment > to that end should know where to look for the charging status for instance > if the devices have a power profile available, the api to access this > should be documented and clearly stated > I believe that sort of information is what Narendranath Ghosh was requesting. Good point - it would be great to know when you're on battery, and do even less. Cheers, Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 4:26 AM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: Hi, three things coming to my mind. 1. we cant guarantee that third party application development will be well behaved. well we'll find these, and point them out to the user so that the user will just not buy such bad apps from the app store ! Authors of apps have an economic incentive to get their app right (this is true on say Android today as well) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/23/2010 4:33 AM, Gary Birkett wrote: On T correct. there are, by design, no special APIs in MeeGo for applications to be power friendly. It must be sufficient for an application to be well behaving [*] for it to be power friendly in MeeGo. would it be wise to document all the best practices in one place though? sure makes sense also for applications to be well behaved, they should know something about their environment to that end should know where to look for the charging status for instance applications should ABSOLUTELY NOT care about charging status. That thinking is the first fundamental mistake many people make :-) 1. Apps should in general not care about AC/DC. Really. Many people think "only on battery do I need to be power efficient". That's just not true for many reasons (ask any datacenter operator) 2. Apps should not do "if the battery is less than 20% I should be power efficient" kind of thing. The last 20% of battery is not where it matters to save power... it's the first 80%! Lets say that if you did nothing, you would have an hour left at 20%, and if you did the special thing, you'd have two hours left. You'd say, great, I gave the user an extra hour. But... if you had done the right thing from the start, for the first 80%, you'd have given the user 5 hours of extra battery! Or in other words... the amount of savings in the last 20% is not going to be very much, because there's just not much left you're going to do a %age improvement over an already small number ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 6/22/2010 4:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Arjan van de Ven wrote: >> >>> >>> On 6/21/2010 1:27 PM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: >>> Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? >>> >>> Applications need to be well behaved. not wake up the cpu unneeded, >>> not keeping resources busy etc etc >>> (see various presentations that I and others did in the past on this >>> topic) >>> >> >> So, in summary, no? >> > > > correct. there are, by design, no special APIs in MeeGo for applications to > be power friendly. > It must be sufficient for an application to be well behaving [*] for it to > be power friendly in MeeGo. would it be wise to document all the best practices in one place though? also for applications to be well behaved, they should know something about their environment to that end should know where to look for the charging status for instance if the devices have a power profile available, the api to access this should be documented and clearly stated I believe that sort of information is what Narendranath Ghosh was requesting. correct me if I am wrong. BR Gary > > > > [*] so no frequent polling, closing devices it's not using etc; the stuff > that we've been educating everyone > on for the last few years, and that most open source software took to heart. > ___ > MeeGo-dev mailing list > MeeGo-dev@meego.com > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev > ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
Hi, three things coming to my mind. 1. we cant guarantee that third party application development will be well behaved. 2. two things, in power saving, saving power when no use (no eating) 3. saving power by consuming less ( less eating) Does meego have some kind of similar architecture? Regards, -Naren On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 6/22/2010 4:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Arjan van de Ven wrote: >> >>> >>> On 6/21/2010 1:27 PM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: >>> Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? >>> >>> Applications need to be well behaved. not wake up the cpu unneeded, >>> not keeping resources busy etc etc >>> (see various presentations that I and others did in the past on this >>> topic) >>> >> >> So, in summary, no? >> > > > correct. there are, by design, no special APIs in MeeGo for applications to > be power friendly. > It must be sufficient for an application to be well behaving [*] for it to > be power friendly in MeeGo. > > > > [*] so no frequent polling, closing devices it's not using etc; the stuff > that we've been educating everyone > on for the last few years, and that most open source software took to heart. > ___ > MeeGo-dev mailing list > MeeGo-dev@meego.com > http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev > ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/22/2010 4:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, Arjan van de Ven wrote: On 6/21/2010 1:27 PM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? Applications need to be well behaved. not wake up the cpu unneeded, not keeping resources busy etc etc (see various presentations that I and others did in the past on this topic) So, in summary, no? correct. there are, by design, no special APIs in MeeGo for applications to be power friendly. It must be sufficient for an application to be well behaving [*] for it to be power friendly in MeeGo. [*] so no frequent polling, closing devices it's not using etc; the stuff that we've been educating everyone on for the last few years, and that most open source software took to heart. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 06/22/2010 04:15 AM, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, Arjan van de Ven wrote: On 6/21/2010 1:27 PM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? Applications need to be well behaved. not wake up the cpu unneeded, not keeping resources busy etc etc (see various presentations that I and others did in the past on this topic) So, in summary, no? Most of this effort is documented through lesswatts.org, code in powertop etc. and 100% applicable for MeeGo. Auke ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
Hi, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 6/21/2010 1:27 PM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: >> Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? > > Applications need to be well behaved. not wake up the cpu unneeded, > not keeping resources busy etc etc > (see various presentations that I and others did in the past on this topic) So, in summary, no? Dave. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
On 6/21/2010 1:27 PM, Narendranath Ghosh wrote: Hi, Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? Regards, Applications need to be well behaved. not wake up the cpu unneeded, not keeping resources busy etc etc (see various presentations that I and others did in the past on this topic) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
[MeeGo-dev] Power Managemengards
Hi, Is there any power management architecture doc available for user domain? Regards, -Naren ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
