Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:50 AM, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 12/14/2010 8:47 AM, Julian Andres Klode wrote: >> On Di, 2010-12-14 at 08:35 -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: >>> On 12/14/2010 7:57 AM, quim@nokia.com wrote: Hi, let's see if we can move into specific details to find and fix whatever is problematic in this discussion about using anything close to "meego" in packages and distro names. >>> >>> Can that discussion *PLEASE* move away from the development list and >>> onto the community list? >>> That's where it belongs since it has NOTHING to do with the development >>> of MeeGo itself. >> So, you think that the names of packages are not important for the >> development? I don't see how package names belong to the "Community >> Building and Infrastructure" topic (and I'm not subscribed there). > > the whole compliance and naming *discussion* has nothing to do with MeeGo > distro development, no. > > if there is a final conclusion and the TSG makes a decision... it might make > sense to let this list know about that. > but the discussion is very offtopic for this list. I completely agree with this assessment. This discussion is completely off topic here. Ryan ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
Hi, quim@nokia.com wrote: > What is really the problem? Apart from the fact that it is not good > practice to carry the names of distros in package names of generic apps > and libraries, it is not evident (at least to me) where the problems > really rely. More than "not good practice" - it's brand dilution. MeeGo is a distribution, not a library or an application or a netbook GUI. That story is easy to understand, and we should ensure that it reflects reality. > Packages using the "meego" string in the MeeGo releases seem to fall in these > categories: > > * Applications developed by the MeeGo project within the UX > categories. In general it is not a good practice to tie an open source > app with the name of a distro. Also the "MeeGo" word doesn't appear in > the UX of these apps. Should we consider the renaming of those packages, > removing "meego" from them? Yes, definitely. Applications should not be "MeeGo anything". To draw a parallel, GNOME games are games for GNOME, and also games from GNOME. But we don't have an issue with someone saying "GNOME Games on Ubuntu". Ubuntu One, on the other hand, will have trouble being adopted anywhere else because of the distro name in the client application name. Going beyond applications, it would be really useful if the UX layer of the netbook UX specifically had a name other than MeeGo. That is, the collection of window manager, default user interface, panels, menus, settings apps, all the basic plumbing. Call that "Flubberdubby" or whatever, and you'll se people calling their MeeGo derived distros "OpenSuse Flubberdubby Edition" or "Debian Flubberdubby Edition". The MeeGo equivalent of GNOME or KDE. (*) > * Packages related with the MeeGo Touch Framework. The branding of > this framework was discussed and agreed, causing the actual renaming of > the components (previously libdui). There is no problem in other distros > willing to use the MeeGo Touch Framework. Is it clear the situation of > branding and icons, though? Are they in isolated packages? The only issue might be if you had an issue with other distros shipping MeeGo Touch. If you don't, I don't see a problem. Still, I don't see any reason for naming the framework after the distro if it is potentially useful to others. It's sufficiently hidden from the user that it doesn't really matter, though (as with all ther other library packages). > * Upstream packages with specific MeeGo version/configuration. Not a big > deal, between not useful or not problematic for other distros. > * Packages intrinsically related to the MeeGo distro (configuration, > branding, devtools). Not useful in the context of other distros. I don't know if there are a lot of either of these - obviously things specific to MeeGo can have the MeeGo name. For upstream, I would rather encourage another naming convention - "netbook" maybe? Or "flubberdubby"? In any case, I agree it's not a major issue. People target UXes, not distros. > Progress in this discussion is measured in improvements to the current > documentation and bugs filed/solved. If you file any bugs about this please > CC me. Thanks! Cheers, Dave. (*) I am not recommending calling the netbook UX Flubberdubby. -- maemo.org docsmaster Email: dne...@maemo.org Jabber: bo...@jabber.org ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
On 12/14/2010 8:47 AM, Julian Andres Klode wrote: On Di, 2010-12-14 at 08:35 -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: On 12/14/2010 7:57 AM, quim@nokia.com wrote: Hi, let's see if we can move into specific details to find and fix whatever is problematic in this discussion about using anything close to "meego" in packages and distro names. Can that discussion *PLEASE* move away from the development list and onto the community list? That's where it belongs since it has NOTHING to do with the development of MeeGo itself. So, you think that the names of packages are not important for the development? I don't see how package names belong to the "Community Building and Infrastructure" topic (and I'm not subscribed there). the whole compliance and naming *discussion* has nothing to do with MeeGo distro development, no. if there is a final conclusion and the TSG makes a decision... it might make sense to let this list know about that. but the discussion is very offtopic for this list. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
On Di, 2010-12-14 at 08:35 -0800, Arjan van de Ven wrote: > On 12/14/2010 7:57 AM, quim@nokia.com wrote: > > Hi, let's see if we can move into specific details to find and fix whatever > > is problematic in this discussion about using anything close to "meego" in > > packages and distro names. > > > Can that discussion *PLEASE* move away from the development list and > onto the community list? > That's where it belongs since it has NOTHING to do with the development > of MeeGo itself. So, you think that the names of packages are not important for the development? I don't see how package names belong to the "Community Building and Infrastructure" topic (and I'm not subscribed there). -- Julian Andres Klode - Debian Developer, Ubuntu Member See http://wiki.debian.org/JulianAndresKlode and http://jak-linux.org/. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
> - Original message - > From: quim@nokia.com > To: meego-dev@meego.com > Subject: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:57:01 + > >� > Progress in this discussion is measured in improvements to the > current documentation and bugs filed/solved. If you file any bugs > about this please CC me. Thanks! > For those not yet aware, note the recently-added Bugzilla structure for this: http://bugs.meego.com/enter_bug.cgi?classification=MeeGo%20Policies Randy -- Ovi Mail: Making email access easy http://mail.ovi.com ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
Gabriel wrote: >> What is really the problem? Apart from the fact that it is >> not good practice to carry the names of distros in package >> names of generic apps and libraries, it is not evident (at >> least to me) where the problems really rely. > Right now, it *appears* that the LF's position is that you > must rename the package if you (a) make major changes and/or > (b) repackage it for another distro. I can't speak for > other licenses, but this isn't consistent with the (L)GPL. This is why I took the time to list the potentially conflictive packages at http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_in_package_names Looking at Ibrahim's email there are two interesting points in relation to this discussion: > the goal is to avoid any confusion around what is and what is not MeeGo What are the packages on that list that could lead to that confusion? If there is any (I doubt) then the license of such packages needs to address this goal. If they don't then let's file the corresponding bugs. > when you append MeeGo to a package name, it would be very reasonable to > conclude > that this is an official MeeGo package coming from MeeGo.com When a distro uses any of the packages listed in the wiki page above without significant modifications, two remarkable things happen: 1. The "meego" string is already appended in the package name. The distro is not making any new attribution, it just keeps the current status. If the MeeGo project sees a problem in this, then either the naming or the licensing must be changed. 2. The "meego" string effectively explains that such package is an official MeeGo package coming from MeeGo.com - just being used in the context of another distribution. Again, if the MeeGo project finds that this is problematic then the solution is to change either the name or the licensing of the package. If these interpretations are correct, where is the problem then? -- Quim ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
On 12/14/2010 7:57 AM, quim@nokia.com wrote: Hi, let's see if we can move into specific details to find and fix whatever is problematic in this discussion about using anything close to "meego" in packages and distro names. Can that discussion *PLEASE* move away from the development list and onto the community list? That's where it belongs since it has NOTHING to do with the development of MeeGo itself. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
Re: [MeeGo-dev] Using "meego" or similar in packages and distro names
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010, quim@nokia.com wrote: About package names, since they are open source (LGPL, Apache...) there shouldn't be any problems redistributing them with the same name, isn't it. If there is a problem with the name or license of a specific package please let's file a bug and let's discuss and solve it in the context of that specific problem. [snip] What is really the problem? Apart from the fact that it is not good practice to carry the names of distros in package names of generic apps and libraries, it is not evident (at least to me) where the problems really rely. Right now, it *appears* that the LF's position is that you must rename the package if you (a) make major changes and/or (b) repackage it for another distro. I can't speak for other licenses, but this isn't consistent with the (L)GPL. -gabriel ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
