Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Desert Rat]

And reverse was at the bottom on some models.

On 7/19/06, David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Steve MacSween wrote:
> on 7/19/06 6:44 AM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>> What car
>> goes forward at full throttle while the brake pedal goes to the floor, and
>> magically
>> fixes itself after the crash?
>>
>
> The "problem" was eventually admitted to be that the european cars did not
> have the huge brake pedal that NA makes did, with the automatic.
>
> Actually there were also reports of Volvos in the same circumstances. But
> Audi for some reason bore the brunt.
>

Jeep had its share of runaway-style accidents, too.  User error, but
probably aggravated by a feature of their design.  If you look at some
of the 1980s Cherokee and Wagoneer models, the pedals are shifted
considerably farther to the left than most cars, to make room for the
large transmission hump.  That puts the accelerator in the same general
area, relative to the steering wheel, as the right edge of the oversize
brake pedal on most automatic cars.

Side note...when automatic transmissions first became popular, there was
a spate of accidents where people were in the wrong gear.  They'd think
they were in reverse, but were really in drive, and would push down on
the accelerator until the car jumped the curb and hit something.  This
is what inspired the modern P-R-N-D-L shift quadrant, which puts a
neutral gear in between reverse and drive.

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--
John Freer
Palm Springs, CA
1992 500 SEL 143K "Stardust"
1996 Sidekick 57K "Kermit"
1992 500SL 108K "Plum Crazy"

[MBZ] W124.193 Rear arms

[Jeff Zedic]

Gentlemen,

I'm going to be replacing the rear arms on my wagon. I've looked at the 
manual and it sees pretty straightforward but I'm looking for anyone 
that's BTDT.


Any gotchas to watch out for??

I assume all this work is done at full droop or horizontal, correct? (no 
load on rear suspension?)


Thanks,

Jeff Zedic
Toronto
87 300TD

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Mitch Haley]

Zeitgeist wrote:
> 
> Watch this four part series of wonton Mercedes abuse at your own risk.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIV_hHPAFQ&mode=related&search=

I get a "private video" message. Did I do something wrong? (mozilla firebird)

When I d/l the link Levi provided, I got a 5 minute video that ended
at what seemed to be the first commercial break, after a preview of
a water trap and a monster truck.

Re: [MBZ] Rod Bender

[Jim Cathey]

The preglow system is different (not any big deal at all), the computer
control is different, the EGR control is different, the wastegate is
controlled differently, The ignition/fuel shutoff is electrical rather
than just vacuum. There are LOTS of little things that MUST be
addressed. They can probably all be solved, but it isn't a "slip-in"
exchange.


Like most of these transplants, if you have two side-by-side cars
you just start swapping bits until everything fits again.  Not a
trivial undertaking, of course.

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] Jim C. refuses a hearing aid

[R A Bennell]

Not exactly what you would call recent photos. What is all that white stuff in 
the background?

Randy B

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rich Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:45 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Jim C. refuses a hearing aid


"178,000 miles with only 80,000 on the rebuilt 3.0 liter 5 cyl.non-turbo 
motor (usually last 4-500,000 miles)"

This must be a very unusual car!  Or maybe it lasted closer to the 4 miles?

--R

redghost wrote:

>http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/car/183240250.html
>
>--
>Clay
>Seattle Bioburner
>
>1972 220D - Gump
>1995 E300D - Cleo
>1987 300SDL - POS - DOA
>The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz
>
>

Re: [MBZ] 201 front suspension help

[Peter Frederick]

Teh 201 was the first chassis with the current multi-link rear 
suspension and strut type front suspension, now quite common (all MB 
models, Volvo, and Ford 500s plus Chrysler models).  Some changes in 
the latest ones, but essentially the same.


The W126 is the older suspension, modified from the W116 chassis.  Rear 
on the W126 is the older semi-trailing arm type.  Nothing in common at 
all.


Peter

Re: [MBZ] Rod Bender

[Zeitgeist]

There must be a cutoff date for many of those things to appear, because I
have an IP and turbo unit from a '90 or '91 603.97 engine, and none of their
functions operate differently than my 603.96 engine.  I'd be willing to bet
the W140 w/603.97 engined cars all have the newer systems in place.

On 7/19/06, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The preglow system is different (not any big deal at all), the computer
control is different, the EGR control is different, the wastegate is
controlled differently, The ignition/fuel shutoff is electrical rather
than just vacuum. There are LOTS of little things that MUST be
addressed. They can probably all be solved, but it isn't a "slip-in"
exchange.



Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG

Re: [MBZ] Mice are not your problem

[Rich Thomas]

You got that right, bro -- for verification, check out this allahgator

http://www.southflorida.com/news/chi-0607190265jul19,0,330718.story?coll=sfe-guide-headlines2

--R


Zeitgeist wrote:


The end days, they are a comin!  Repent sinners or thou shall be
foresaken...and stung repeatedly

On 7/18/06, Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


You think you got problems with mice in your car, check this out


http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060717/NEWS02/607170317/1009


   


Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Mice are not your problem

[Zeitgeist]

The end days, they are a comin!  Repent sinners or thou shall be
foresaken...and stung repeatedly

On 7/18/06, Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


You think you got problems with mice in your car, check this out


http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060717/NEWS02/607170317/1009



Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG

Re: [MBZ] Rod Bender

[Marshall Booth]

Zeitgeist wrote:

Other than the slightly different glowplug system, I'm at a loss to think of
too many reasons why a .96 can't be substituted for a .97  If I came upon a
good deal for one of those rigs, that's exactly what I'd do.  But then
again, I'd rather stick with the E-class anyway.


The preglow system is different (not any big deal at all), the computer 
control is different, the EGR control is different, the wastegate is 
controlled differently, The ignition/fuel shutoff is electrical rather 
than just vacuum. There are LOTS of little things that MUST be 
addressed. They can probably all be solved, but it isn't a "slip-in" 
exchange.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 
190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)

Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Digest, Vol 8, Issue 67

[Roger Conlon]

--

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:36:00 -0700
From: Zeitgeist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rod Bender
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Other than the slightly different glowplug system, I'm at a loss to think 
of

too many reasons why a .96 can't be substituted for a .97  If I came upon a
good deal for one of those rigs, that's exactly what I'd do.  But then
again, I'd rather stick with the E-class anyway.

On 7/19/06, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> NO!
>
> Marshall
>

Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG


--



Dang!

Roger

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Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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Re: [MBZ] I am in hell

[J.B. Hebert]

I remember the day I picked up my old 300CD.  Laying on burning hot 
gravel trying to disconnect the driveshaft so I could dolly the car 
home... the thermometer in the truck indicated about 105.  Not fun.


J.B.

At 04:04 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote:


So I decided to get back to messing with the enterprise again (380SE
with euro 5.0 motor).  Am in the middle of pulling the gas tank and
going to pull one out of another car to put in it.  Imagine it being 101
  outside, unhooking the fuel lines from under the car, and having your
arms and back covered with gasoline.  That burns.  Had to come in from a
break but am fixing to go back out.

I also noticed the tach was not workign on that car, what runs the tach
on the gassers?  The fuse seems ok.  Tach was working fine before.
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL,
  85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D,
  76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

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[MBZ] I am in hell

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

So I decided to get back to messing with the enterprise again (380SE 
with euro 5.0 motor).  Am in the middle of pulling the gas tank and 
going to pull one out of another car to put in it.  Imagine it being 101 
 outside, unhooking the fuel lines from under the car, and having your 
arms and back covered with gasoline.  That burns.  Had to come in from a 
break but am fixing to go back out.


I also noticed the tach was not workign on that car, what runs the tach 
on the gassers?  The fuse seems ok.  Tach was working fine before.

--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL,
 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D,
 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] 201 front suspension help

[Curt Raymond]

Not for the first time I don't think most people get what I'm trying to say 
here.
Remember I have a 201 and I REALLY like it. Specifically I like that it has 
decent power
 and 40mpg.

I was in Germany in '93 and noticed that many Germans take alot of pride in 
their cars, and do 
alot of their own maintenance, even when they don't have a driveway, they'll 
pull up onto the sidewalk. 
I saw that many times.
I mentioned it to my friend Satoshi from Japan and he told me that the average 
Japanese person considers his 
car an appliance, like the toaster. He needs it to go from place to place and 
thats it. Many fewer serious 
car enthusiasts in Japan.

In the 201 I see a car that is designed to be driven with a minimum of fuss. 
There are fewer maintenance points 
and the ergonomics are decidedly different from the w123s I've had. The 
suspension feels much more like 
a Japanese car than the 123. Which asks the question, who pioneered this?
My answer is nobody, the rise of strut suspensions was really an '80s thing 
that many makers were trying at the same time. 

-Curt

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:18:03 +0930
From: "Hendrik Riessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 201 front suspension help
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
 reply-type=original

Does the 126 have the McPherson(?) strut set up like the 201?
The suspension set up in the 201's is completley different to the 
earlier 
compact size MB's and there is no comparison possible. Like comparing a 
CDI 
Diesel to an non CDI engine.
Also it has to be remebered that the 201 dominated touring car racing 
in 
Germany during the 80's, so even other four door European cars where 
not 
quite up there with the 201.
Like a lot of other things, MB might not have invented it but they came 
close to perfecting it.
Another factor is that MB designs cars for the autobahn, whereas Japan 
does 
not have a high speed road network.




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Subject: Re: [MBZ] the same old refrain...
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DOH!
I was thinking of a kids 4wheeler that doesn't have shift gears.
The "automatic" Hondas are similar.
You're right a manual shift 4wheeler will have just a clutch.
Same theory as the primary on a snowmobile though, maybe gunk in it?

-Curt

Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:07:56 -0400
From: "Levi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the same old refrain...
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Message-ID:
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I think I'm misunderstanding something...  To my knowledge most 
Snowmobiles
don't have gears, they just have the belt drive with something along 
the
lines of cone shaped pulleys to allow for a more or less CVT setup.

I believe Polaris uses this in their setup for 4-wheelers and some 
others.

Most of the Hondas (at least in the past) have gears (usually 5 
forward) and
don't have belts.  To my knowledge they have a centrifugal clutch like 
a
go-kart or a chain-saw.  Nothing that changes ratio, just slips 
(hopefully
for a short period) when starting from a stop until it locks up.
But then recently I read something in my manual to the effect that 
there is
a multi-plate clutch that "locks up" at about 2k rpms maybe?  Not quite 
sure
I understand, but it sounds like the first clutch is used to slip from 
a
stop until a certain speed when it locks in for sure with the second 
clutch?

No belts for sure.  (Now when my wife tries to start from a stop in 2nd
gear, t

Re: [MBZ] the same old refrain...

[Curt Raymond]

Most if not all 4wheelers use a centrifigal clutch just like on a snowmobile.
If its slipping while getting up to speed its probably a bad belt or the 
primary clutch is
gunked up and not closing good, or maybe more likely the secondary doesn't 
close all the way
so you're really starting in a higher gear ratio than you should be.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:43:31 -0400
From: "Levi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the same old refrain...
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Message-ID:
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I've used the M1 Motorcycle in my 86' Honda VF500F, seems fine.  But I
wonder if M1 15w50 would be fine.  It would be half the price...  (or
almost).  Especially since I'm hardly riding it at all any more...
I'm wondering the same thing with my 84(I think) Honda TRX250 4-wheeler 
that
already seems to be slipping a bit until it gets up to speed...  I 
can't
remember how exactly that's set up, but it seems there's something like 
a
centrifugal clutch until like 2000rpms, then a wet clutch locks in 
place?
Does that get affected by oil like bikes or not?

Levi


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Subject: Re: [MBZ] Deal from Kaleb
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27 hours (minimum) later...
57 gallons of diesel fuel ~ $170
Hmm, that actually seems better than I'd first thought. 
Not withstanding the housebuying thing.
Of course if we count my time for something, - $700
Geez even if we put a couple $50 hotel rooms in there its still 
not too bad a deal. Oh wait, what about the flight? Expedia says $430 
maybe could do a little better but not much. Still not such a bad deal 
especially since I know somebody's looked the car over.

My wife would shoot me though, we're on "economy measures" until the 
housebuying 
is done.

-Curt

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:26:54 -0500
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Deal from Kaleb, Was: W123 1982  240D A/C questions
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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fly in, drive back, no problems.


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Re: [MBZ] 420/560 ignition control module

[Luther Gulseth]

to frustrate you.  Is it working?

"Kaleb C. Striplin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> Anybody know why the ignition module would be different for a 420 and a 
> 560?  I dont see why they would need a different unit.  Anybody?
> -- 
> Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
>   91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL,
>   85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D,
>   76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250
> http://www.striplin.net
> 



-- 
Luther   KB5QHU
Alma, Ark
'83 300SD (235kmi WVO/diesel mix)
'82 300CD (160kmi)
'82 300D  (74kmi needs block or engine)

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[David Brodbeck]

Steve MacSween wrote:
> on 7/19/06 6:44 AM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>   
>> What car
>> goes forward at full throttle while the brake pedal goes to the floor, and
>> magically
>> fixes itself after the crash?
>> 
>
> The "problem" was eventually admitted to be that the european cars did not
> have the huge brake pedal that NA makes did, with the automatic.
>
> Actually there were also reports of Volvos in the same circumstances. But
> Audi for some reason bore the brunt.
>   

Jeep had its share of runaway-style accidents, too.  User error, but
probably aggravated by a feature of their design.  If you look at some
of the 1980s Cherokee and Wagoneer models, the pedals are shifted
considerably farther to the left than most cars, to make room for the
large transmission hump.  That puts the accelerator in the same general
area, relative to the steering wheel, as the right edge of the oversize
brake pedal on most automatic cars.

Side note...when automatic transmissions first became popular, there was
a spate of accidents where people were in the wrong gear.  They'd think
they were in reverse, but were really in drive, and would push down on
the accelerator until the car jumped the curb and hit something.  This
is what inspired the modern P-R-N-D-L shift quadrant, which puts a
neutral gear in between reverse and drive.

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Rich Thomas]

Didn't that whole deal originate on "60Minutes" with Dan Rather in the 
lead on the story?  Found some dentist's wife who got wunnathem new 
Uropeen cars and had no idea how to drive it so did the pedal mixup 
thing?  Another "fake but accurate" reporting job?


There is an old newspaper photo of my mother standing next to a shop 
with a car in the front window, being consoled by a cop, she was in the 
shop when a similar event occurred and some woman unintendedly 
accelerated from the parking spot in front forward into the shop rather 
than backing out of the spot.  Everyone was OK except for some jangled 
nerves.  It was some kind of basic Merkin car.


--R

Steve MacSween wrote:


on 7/19/06 6:44 AM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


What car
goes forward at full throttle while the brake pedal goes to the floor, and
magically
fixes itself after the crash?
   



The "problem" was eventually admitted to be that the european cars did not
have the huge brake pedal that NA makes did, with the automatic.

Actually there were also reports of Volvos in the same circumstances. But
Audi for some reason bore the brunt.

You can thank that whole bruhaha for the regulation that you have to have
your foot on the brake, to shift out of park, on all cars now.

Mac


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Re: [MBZ] Rod Bender

[Zeitgeist]

Other than the slightly different glowplug system, I'm at a loss to think of
too many reasons why a .96 can't be substituted for a .97  If I came upon a
good deal for one of those rigs, that's exactly what I'd do.  But then
again, I'd rather stick with the E-class anyway.

On 7/19/06, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



NO!

Marshall



Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG

Re: [MBZ] 420/560 ignition control module

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

haha, yea

Steve MacSween wrote:


on 7/19/06 11:38 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Anybody know why the ignition module would be different for a 420 and a
560?  I dont see why they would need a different unit.  Anybody?



Oh, you slay me. As if. Same reason there are at least two different vacuum
routing setups, for the same year of OM616?

Mac
Not being helpful at all


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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL,
 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D,
 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] 420/560 ignition control module

[Steve MacSween]

on 7/19/06 11:38 AM, Kaleb C. Striplin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Anybody know why the ignition module would be different for a 420 and a
> 560?  I dont see why they would need a different unit.  Anybody?

Oh, you slay me. As if. Same reason there are at least two different vacuum
routing setups, for the same year of OM616?

Mac
Not being helpful at all

[MBZ] 420/560 ignition control module

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Anybody know why the ignition module would be different for a 420 and a 
560?  I dont see why they would need a different unit.  Anybody?

--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL,
 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D,
 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Steve MacSween]

No, Audi managed that one all by itself.

I can still remember the car magazines turning on Audi (after initially
being sympathetic), over the PR response.

Mac

on 7/19/06 7:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Actually this is the first time I actually heard anything about Audi making
> those comments. I'm betting the media was responsible for those comments.
> 
> Harry
> 69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
> 72 350SL   108,000 Miles
> 2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
> 1999 Mazda Miata 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:55:58 -0400
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)
> 
> 
> on 7/18/06 9:10 PM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>>> Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers fault.
>> 
>> Although it does seem the only people stupid enough to buy Audis in the
>> 1980s were the ones who were too stupid to know that if the brake pedal
>> dropped to the floor with no more resistance than a throttle would exhibit,
>> as the car lunged forward at full throttle, you might want to quit shoving
>> the pedal to the floor and look for the brake.
>> Operator error is not the car's fault, nor is is improper for Audi to
>> call a moron a moron.
> 
> Um, I did not make my point clear in my original post
> 
> Actually I don't care if it was all a scam or not, the point was that in the
> corporate world, you NEVER -- even more so on overpriced gear such as Audis
> were, at that time -- call your customers stupid. Not with the demographic
> Audi was reaching for (essentially wealthy professionals looking for a
> little more excitement than a Benz provided at the time).
> 
> Audi could have come out with any number of creative strategies, before they
> called their customers stupid. It is one of the classic blunders of PR
> history, and it almost cost them the entire North American market. It also
> cost them a fortune in Madison Avenue $$$ to get themselves back on track.
> 
> Mac
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Steve MacSween]

on 7/19/06 6:44 AM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> What car
> goes forward at full throttle while the brake pedal goes to the floor, and
> magically
> fixes itself after the crash?

The "problem" was eventually admitted to be that the european cars did not
have the huge brake pedal that NA makes did, with the automatic.

Actually there were also reports of Volvos in the same circumstances. But
Audi for some reason bore the brunt.

You can thank that whole bruhaha for the regulation that you have to have
your foot on the brake, to shift out of park, on all cars now.

Mac

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Levi Smith]

I have yet to complete the process to verify 100%, but it appears so...
I'm downloading from this site right now:
http://keepvid.com/

But it looks like this would probably work directly...
http://videodownloader.net/get/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D-bIV_hHPAFQ

On 7/19/06, Mike Canfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Is there a way to download the videos to watch later on that site?  My PC
comes up with an error message.  Would love to watch them but can't sit
here
in front of the PC waiting for them to load.

Mike

Re: [MBZ] Rod Bender

[Marshall Booth]

Roger Conlon wrote:


Would a 87 300SDL motor drop into one of these 90-91 350SDL cars
with out any modifications?


NO!

Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 237kmi, '84 
190D 2.2 229Kmi (retired)

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Mike Canfield]

Is there a way to download the videos to watch later on that site?  My PC 
comes up with an error message.  Would love to watch them but can't sit here 
in front of the PC waiting for them to load.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: "Rich Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?



Well, they used a bit more than wontons on that car, I especially liked
the energetic dissociations of various devices in the final reel.  It
was funny in one scene where the rear wiper was still trying to do it's
job with the window missing, the hatch all bent up.  If I ever get into
a crash with a monster truck I want to be driving one of these cars
(wait, I think I do).

--R

Zeitgeist wrote:


Watch this four part series of wonton Mercedes abuse at your own risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIV_hHPAFQ&mode=related&search=







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Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

695lbs?  That seems pretty cheap

Rich Thomas wrote:

Well, they used a bit more than wontons on that car, I especially liked 
the energetic dissociations of various devices in the final reel.  It 
was funny in one scene where the rear wiper was still trying to do it's 
job with the window missing, the hatch all bent up.  If I ever get into 
a crash with a monster truck I want to be driving one of these cars 
(wait, I think I do).


--R

Zeitgeist wrote:



Watch this four part series of wonton Mercedes abuse at your own risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIV_hHPAFQ&mode=related&search=








___
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL,
 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D,
 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

[MBZ] Rod Bender

[Roger Conlon]

--

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:25:33 -0700
From: redghost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [MBZ] PDX Rod-bender
To: Mercedes List 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/car/183257282.html

I am sure he knows why it is burning oil
--
Clay
Seattle Bioburner

1972 220D - Gump
1995 E300D - Cleo
1987 300SDL - POS - DOA
The FSM would drive a Diesel Benz


Would a 87 300SDL motor drop into one of these 90-91 350SDL cars
with out any modifications?

_
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Zeitgeist]

The running joke back in the day, was that a Quantum should've rightfully
been badged as an Audi 4500.  They're good cars.

On 7/18/06, LT Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I like Audi -- a poor man's Benz. In fact, my VW Quantum diesel-turbo is a
misbadged Audi 4000.



Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Rich Thomas]

Well, they used a bit more than wontons on that car, I especially liked 
the energetic dissociations of various devices in the final reel.  It 
was funny in one scene where the rear wiper was still trying to do it's 
job with the window missing, the hatch all bent up.  If I ever get into 
a crash with a monster truck I want to be driving one of these cars 
(wait, I think I do).


--R

Zeitgeist wrote:


Watch this four part series of wonton Mercedes abuse at your own risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIV_hHPAFQ&mode=related&search=


 

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[mykd1]

Actually this is the first time I actually heard anything about Audi making 
those comments. I'm betting the media was responsible for those comments. 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
72 350SL   108,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:55:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)


on 7/18/06 9:10 PM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers fault.
> 
> Although it does seem the only people stupid enough to buy Audis in the
> 1980s were the ones who were too stupid to know that if the brake pedal
> dropped to the floor with no more resistance than a throttle would exhibit,
> as the car lunged forward at full throttle, you might want to quit shoving
> the pedal to the floor and look for the brake.
> Operator error is not the car's fault, nor is is improper for Audi to
> call a moron a moron.

Um, I did not make my point clear in my original post

Actually I don't care if it was all a scam or not, the point was that in the
corporate world, you NEVER -- even more so on overpriced gear such as Audis
were, at that time -- call your customers stupid. Not with the demographic
Audi was reaching for (essentially wealthy professionals looking for a
little more excitement than a Benz provided at the time).

Audi could have come out with any number of creative strategies, before they
called their customers stupid. It is one of the classic blunders of PR
history, and it almost cost them the entire North American market. It also
cost them a fortune in Madison Avenue $$$ to get themselves back on track.

Mac


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Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Mitch Haley]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  I remember all the charges being dismissed at the expense of millions in 
> legal fees
> for Audi when the accusers admitted to making the stories up.

I hadn't heard about the intentional "accidents" before. The whole media spiel 
stunk of
BS and I tried to ignore it.
So in the end, it was an idiotic media frenzy fueled by copycats who heard 
about it
on TV. The very first time I heard it I knew it was operator malfunction. What 
car
goes forward at full throttle while the brake pedal goes to the floor, and 
magically
fixes itself after the crash?

Mitch

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Steve MacSween]

on 7/18/06 9:10 PM, Mitch Haley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers fault.
> 
> Although it does seem the only people stupid enough to buy Audis in the
> 1980s were the ones who were too stupid to know that if the brake pedal
> dropped to the floor with no more resistance than a throttle would exhibit,
> as the car lunged forward at full throttle, you might want to quit shoving
> the pedal to the floor and look for the brake.
> Operator error is not the car's fault, nor is is improper for Audi to
> call a moron a moron.

Um, I did not make my point clear in my original post

Actually I don't care if it was all a scam or not, the point was that in the
corporate world, you NEVER -- even more so on overpriced gear such as Audis
were, at that time -- call your customers stupid. Not with the demographic
Audi was reaching for (essentially wealthy professionals looking for a
little more excitement than a Benz provided at the time).

Audi could have come out with any number of creative strategies, before they
called their customers stupid. It is one of the classic blunders of PR
history, and it almost cost them the entire North American market. It also
cost them a fortune in Madison Avenue $$$ to get themselves back on track.

Mac

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[mykd1]

I remember following that story all the way to the end when it went to federal 
court. At the time I owned one of the rare Audi Quattro coupes (which was 
trashed by some drunken $%#@ in a truck. I remember all the charges being 
dismissed at the expense of millions in legal fees for Audi when the accusers 
admitted to making the stories up. Not only did these morons make up lies to 
get rich, but they sacrificed the lives of their own for money. Thats just down 
right sick! 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
72 350SL   108,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: LT Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:46:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)


I like Audi -- a poor man's Benz. In fact, my VW Quantum diesel-turbo is a
misbadged Audi 4000.

On 7/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers
> fault. Of couse it turned out to be a bunch of idiots who were money hungry.
> That "unintended acceleration" turned out to be a sick joke that almost cost
> Audi their business. I owned a few of their cars and never ever had a
> problem with any of them. I think it was a sick joke gone way to far
>
> Harry
> 69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
> 72 350SL   108,000 Miles
> 2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
> 1999 Mazda Miata
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Sent: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:22:50 -0400
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)
>
>
> on 7/18/06 4:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Now to the point. The Lexus' owners manual and papers were contained in
> a
> > nice leather zip case. Expensive and classy. And when I took delivery of
> my
> > '95
> > C280, guess what? An even nicer leather zip case for it's manuals and
> papers.
> > The Lexus influence was clear to me.
>
> I don't see it as a Lexus influence, so much as the influence of spreading
> red ink and loss of market share for what qualifies for me as the
> stupidest
> of reasons: the thick German skull.
>
> One of my favourite quips concerns the w116 450sel 6.9 -- auto writers
> loved
> those barges, supercars that they were. But what other supercar came with
> a
> set of manually-adjusting rear view mirrors? (And, yes, a nasty plastic
> owner's wallet.)
>
> BMW got away with its, err, cheesy interiors for years because they played
> it as part of their 'driver's machine' image. How Mercedes passed on
> MB-Tex
> (and for that matter, it's second rate leather) for years to people paying
> huge prices is an enduring mystery to me. Right up there with being able
> to
> sell things like the CD models as 'luxury' coupes. Huh?
>
> Lexus didn't win over people initially just because of their association
> with Toyota, and its rep for doing things right (not completely deserved,
> by
> the way, I am a Honda fan myself). They did it by treating owners like
> royalty in the service department. And through little touches like washing
> (actually, more like a mild detailing, at least in this area) for free
> once
> a week. And every time the car came into the service area.
>
> Word of mouth. Image building. The Japanese understand this, mostly. The
> Koreans are catching on.
>
> The Germans, OTOH, work from "If it is German, it must be the best" (don't
> get me started on Bosch and one or two others). Translated, this
> unfortunately in the past worked out to "You vill take vhat we zink is
> best,
> and you vill like it". This reached its nadir of insolence when Audi
> initially reacted to the 'unintended acceleration' publicity by blaming
> its
> customers.
>
> Ironically enough, the US auto industry is now probably building some of
> the
> best cars it's come out with for 30 years or more, better powertrains,
> ERGONOMICS, designs that don't look like they came from brilliant minds.
> But
> no one cares anymore.
>
> Mac
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
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> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>



-- 
Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish.

BIODIESEL -- no oil war required.

1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle
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Re: [MBZ] alternator charging rate?

[Fmiser]

rumor has it that David wrote:

> Tom Hargrave wrote:
> > A battery charger really is the answer unless you need to drive
> > somewhere anyway. 
> >   
> 
> Or unless you live in an apartment with no outside plug-ins. ;)

Then you need a big battery and an inverter and a battery charger.

Oh.

Maybe you could just take the battery indoors with you for a recharge.

-- Philip. I've done that and I don't live in an apartment.

[MBZ] Mice are not your problem

[Rich Thomas]

You think you got problems with mice in your car, check this out

http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060717/NEWS02/607170317/1009

--R

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[OK Don]

I doubt that the FSM was amused ---  by the video, not the banter.

On 7/18/06, Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

One a them funny guys, huh?

--R



--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've
exhausted all the alternatives."
Sir Winston Churchill
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Rich Thomas]

One a them funny guys, huh?

--R

Zeitgeist wrote:


Ya, he spilled some to that creme of sum yung gy soup in his lap; hence the
wonton mayhem that ensued.

On 7/18/06, Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


Is that a Chinese guy driving it?


   


Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
___
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For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] need this v12?

[LT Don]

Me too. That is one of my fantasies.

Have you read this:? Go to http://www.arachnoid.com/sailbook/ and download
Confessions. The author (and the guy who does the website) WROTE AppleWriter
and is a multi-millionaire. He also spend four years sailing around the
world. He now takes his boat to Alaska and tries to not be eaten by the
bears.

The scary part is that he thinks just like me.

Oh -- did I mention that he worked for NASA and designed the Shuttle
lighting system -- and dropped our of school in the 7th grade?

Read and enjoy ... and be very jealous.



On 7/18/06, Craig McCluskey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:16:08 -0500 "LT Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'd rather have that tugboat they show on the same page. Wouldn't that
> make a cute liveaboard boat?

Indeed. That's why I said it's a good thing I don't live near the ocean!


Craig

___
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--
Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish.

BIODIESEL -- no oil war required.

1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

Re: [MBZ] 201 front suspension help

[Jim Cathey]

Now, now - the 107 and 114/115 have a double wishbone front suspension
(my favorite). None of these single arms and track rods and sockets,
etc.


Shows you what I know.  I can recognize a strut that isn't there...
"How many pins on that thing?  What voltage?..."

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] need this v12?

[Craig McCluskey]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:16:08 -0500 "LT Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'd rather have that tugboat they show on the same page. Wouldn't that
> make a cute liveaboard boat?

Indeed. That's why I said it's a good thing I don't live near the ocean!


Craig

Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Zeitgeist]

Ya, he spilled some to that creme of sum yung gy soup in his lap; hence the
wonton mayhem that ensued.

On 7/18/06, Rich Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Is that a Chinese guy driving it?



Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state"
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG

[MBZ] 126 Seat Switch Update

[Scott Ritchey]

If you are thinking of replacing your old-style 126 seat switch ...

Had to replace my 1982 passenger seat switch after two passengers tried to
open the door using the backrest adjustment.  I already had a new-style
switch (bought on eBay some time back) and I ordered the conversion kit from
Rusty.  The old switch was soldered directly to the wires while the new
style switch uses 2 connectors.  The kit consisted of two connector shells,
pin sockets, a new cover plate and a new backrest knob, and a plastic
c-clip.  You can reuse the seat knob.  The main installation task is to
unsolder the wires from the old switch, solder them to the pin sockets and
insert the pin sockets in the correct locations in the plastic connector
shells.  By the way, I removed the head-rest adjustment stud from the new
switch because my car doesn't have that feature.

Problems:   
(1) The color dots on the front connector shell were mirror image of the
correct placement.  This resulted in the front up-down working backwards
while the rear up-down and seat back didn't work at all (ground and 12v
wires were reversed as were the forward-back wires).  After considerable
head scratching (and a shower) I realized what this problem was.  
(2) When screwed to the door, the new switch body does not stick out far
enough to attach the knobs.  There is a plastic C-clip that snaps over a
large plastic post on the switch after the trim plate is installed; I got
the clip on by compressing the door liner panel but it popped off
immediately as soon as I released compression pressure.  Fortunately, I
found it.   In the end, I had to completely remove the screws that should
hold the switch to the door such that the switch floats, secured only by the
plastic c-clip and the trim piece.

Positives:  The switch does work and the seat-back adjustment stud appears
more robust than the old design. The newer switches appear to be more
available as used and the new-style seat-back adjustment stud appears
interchangeable with the up-down studs, making a future repair (swapping
parts) more feasible.  I have dissembled and reassembled the new and old
switches successfully, indoors. Also, the door liner panel installs much
easier because the new switch does not protrude as far from the door.
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Re: [MBZ] 201 front suspension help

[OK Don]

Now, now - the 107 and 114/115 have a double wishbone front suspension
(my favorite). None of these single arms and track rods and sockets,
etc.

On 7/18/06, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Does the 126 have the McPherson(?) strut set up like the 201?

No.  The 126 looks a lot like the 114/115 underneath, as does
everything in between.  (107, 116, 123)

-- Jim




--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've
exhausted all the alternatives."
Sir Winston Churchill
'90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager

Re: [MBZ] need this v12?

[LT Don]

I think the state tree out here is the Family Tree.

On 7/18/06, Jim Cathey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> You should drive out sometime and visit Iowa. Contrary to what you
> might
> think, there is a lot more here than corn and soybeans

I have a friend from Ioway.  I always tease her about the
state tree being corn.  Sets her off every time!

-- Jim


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--
Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish.

BIODIESEL -- no oil war required.

1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[LT Don]

Actually, that is a good time to buy one of the vehicles. I sure with Benz
would suddenly find the CDI's smacking into garage walls!

On 7/18/06, Mitch Haley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers
fault.

Although it does seem the only people stupid enough to buy Audis in the
1980s were the ones who were too stupid to know that if the brake pedal
dropped to the floor with no more resistance than a throttle would
exhibit,
as the car lunged forward at full throttle, you might want to quit shoving
the pedal to the floor and look for the brake.
Operator error is not the car's fault, nor is is improper for Audi to
call a moron a moron.
Mitch.

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--
Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish.

BIODIESEL -- no oil war required.

1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Mitch Haley]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers fault. 

Although it does seem the only people stupid enough to buy Audis in the
1980s were the ones who were too stupid to know that if the brake pedal
dropped to the floor with no more resistance than a throttle would exhibit,
as the car lunged forward at full throttle, you might want to quit shoving
the pedal to the floor and look for the brake. 
Operator error is not the car's fault, nor is is improper for Audi to
call a moron a moron. 
Mitch.

Re: [MBZ] 201 front suspension help

[Jim Cathey]

Does the 126 have the McPherson(?) strut set up like the 201?


No.  The 126 looks a lot like the 114/115 underneath, as does
everything in between.  (107, 116, 123)

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] need this v12?

[Jim Cathey]

You should drive out sometime and visit Iowa. Contrary to what you 
might

think, there is a lot more here than corn and soybeans


I have a friend from Ioway.  I always tease her about the
state tree being corn.  Sets her off every time!

-- Jim

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[LT Don]

I like Audi -- a poor man's Benz. In fact, my VW Quantum diesel-turbo is a
misbadged Audi 4000.

On 7/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers
fault. Of couse it turned out to be a bunch of idiots who were money hungry.
That "unintended acceleration" turned out to be a sick joke that almost cost
Audi their business. I owned a few of their cars and never ever had a
problem with any of them. I think it was a sick joke gone way to far

Harry
69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
72 350SL   108,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata


-Original Message-
From: Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:22:50 -0400
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)


on 7/18/06 4:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> Now to the point. The Lexus' owners manual and papers were contained in
a
> nice leather zip case. Expensive and classy. And when I took delivery of
my
> '95
> C280, guess what? An even nicer leather zip case for it's manuals and
papers.
> The Lexus influence was clear to me.

I don't see it as a Lexus influence, so much as the influence of spreading
red ink and loss of market share for what qualifies for me as the
stupidest
of reasons: the thick German skull.

One of my favourite quips concerns the w116 450sel 6.9 -- auto writers
loved
those barges, supercars that they were. But what other supercar came with
a
set of manually-adjusting rear view mirrors? (And, yes, a nasty plastic
owner's wallet.)

BMW got away with its, err, cheesy interiors for years because they played
it as part of their 'driver's machine' image. How Mercedes passed on
MB-Tex
(and for that matter, it's second rate leather) for years to people paying
huge prices is an enduring mystery to me. Right up there with being able
to
sell things like the CD models as 'luxury' coupes. Huh?

Lexus didn't win over people initially just because of their association
with Toyota, and its rep for doing things right (not completely deserved,
by
the way, I am a Honda fan myself). They did it by treating owners like
royalty in the service department. And through little touches like washing
(actually, more like a mild detailing, at least in this area) for free
once
a week. And every time the car came into the service area.

Word of mouth. Image building. The Japanese understand this, mostly. The
Koreans are catching on.

The Germans, OTOH, work from "If it is German, it must be the best" (don't
get me started on Bosch and one or two others). Translated, this
unfortunately in the past worked out to "You vill take vhat we zink is
best,
and you vill like it". This reached its nadir of insolence when Audi
initially reacted to the 'unintended acceleration' publicity by blaming
its
customers.

Ironically enough, the US auto industry is now probably building some of
the
best cars it's come out with for 30 years or more, better powertrains,
ERGONOMICS, designs that don't look like they came from brilliant minds.
But
no one cares anymore.

Mac



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--
Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish.

BIODIESEL -- no oil war required.

1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[mykd1]

Now I am going to defend that about Audi saying it was the customers fault. Of 
couse it turned out to be a bunch of idiots who were money hungry. That 
"unintended acceleration" turned out to be a sick joke that almost cost Audi 
their business. I owned a few of their cars and never ever had a problem with 
any of them. I think it was a sick joke gone way to far 
 
Harry
69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
72 350SL   108,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:22:50 -0400
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)


on 7/18/06 4:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> Now to the point. The Lexus' owners manual and papers were contained in a
> nice leather zip case. Expensive and classy. And when I took delivery of my
> '95 
> C280, guess what? An even nicer leather zip case for it's manuals and papers.
> The Lexus influence was clear to me.

I don't see it as a Lexus influence, so much as the influence of spreading
red ink and loss of market share for what qualifies for me as the stupidest
of reasons: the thick German skull.

One of my favourite quips concerns the w116 450sel 6.9 -- auto writers loved
those barges, supercars that they were. But what other supercar came with a
set of manually-adjusting rear view mirrors? (And, yes, a nasty plastic
owner's wallet.)

BMW got away with its, err, cheesy interiors for years because they played
it as part of their 'driver's machine' image. How Mercedes passed on MB-Tex
(and for that matter, it's second rate leather) for years to people paying
huge prices is an enduring mystery to me. Right up there with being able to
sell things like the CD models as 'luxury' coupes. Huh?

Lexus didn't win over people initially just because of their association
with Toyota, and its rep for doing things right (not completely deserved, by
the way, I am a Honda fan myself). They did it by treating owners like
royalty in the service department. And through little touches like washing
(actually, more like a mild detailing, at least in this area) for free once
a week. And every time the car came into the service area.

Word of mouth. Image building. The Japanese understand this, mostly. The
Koreans are catching on.

The Germans, OTOH, work from "If it is German, it must be the best" (don't
get me started on Bosch and one or two others). Translated, this
unfortunately in the past worked out to "You vill take vhat we zink is best,
and you vill like it". This reached its nadir of insolence when Audi
initially reacted to the 'unintended acceleration' publicity by blaming its
customers. 

Ironically enough, the US auto industry is now probably building some of the
best cars it's come out with for 30 years or more, better powertrains,
ERGONOMICS, designs that don't look like they came from brilliant minds. But
no one cares anymore.

Mac



___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Brits; what's wrong with these people?

[Rich Thomas]

Is that a Chinese guy driving it?

--R

Zeitgeist wrote:


Watch this four part series of wonton Mercedes abuse at your own risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bIV_hHPAFQ&mode=related&search=


 

Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)

[Hendrik Riessen]

Well I am a firm believer that MB really started it's downward slide when 
they became DC.
Cut costs, focus on looks and gadgets rather than substance and reliability 
and you have a recipe for disaster.
I call it trading in German desire for reliability for American type 
consumerism.


- Original Message - 
From: "Steve MacSween" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old rice burners vs?? (warning, rant)



I don't see it as a Lexus influence, so much as the influence of spreading
red ink and loss of market share for what qualifies for me as the 
stupidest

of reasons: the thick German skull.

One of my favourite quips concerns the w116 450sel 6.9 -- auto writers 
loved
those barges, supercars that they were. But what other supercar came with 
a

set of manually-adjusting rear view mirrors? (And, yes, a nasty plastic
owner's wallet.)

BMW got away with its, err, cheesy interiors for years because they played
it as part of their 'driver's machine' image. How Mercedes passed on 
MB-Tex

(and for that matter, it's second rate leather) for years to people paying
huge prices is an enduring mystery to me. Right up there with being able 
to

sell things like the CD models as 'luxury' coupes. Huh?

Lexus didn't win over people initially just because of their association
with Toyota, and its rep for doing things right (not completely deserved, 
by

the way, I am a Honda fan myself). They did it by treating owners like
royalty in the service department. And through little touches like washing
(actually, more like a mild detailing, at least in this area) for free 
once

a week. And every time the car came into the service area.

Word of mouth. Image building. The Japanese understand this, mostly. The
Koreans are catching on.

The Germans, OTOH, work from "If it is German, it must be the best" (don't
get me started on Bosch and one or two others). Translated, this
unfortunately in the past worked out to "You vill take vhat we zink is 
best,

and you vill like it". This reached its nadir of insolence when Audi
initially reacted to the 'unintended acceleration' publicity by blaming 
its

customers.

Ironically enough, the US auto industry is now probably building some of 
the

best cars it's come out with for 30 years or more, better powertrains,
ERGONOMICS, designs that don't look like they came from brilliant minds. 
But

no one cares anymore.

Mac



___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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