Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL Market Value?
Now I KNOW this is a tough crowd when it comes to these 3.5L rodbender engines, but is the longevity of the factory replacement engines better than the originals? What might a car like this fetch on the open market? Factory replacement engines are just fine. No special worries. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] king pin fit
Bob Bigham is correct! It isn,t that important. 50 years ago I bought all of the parts from Sears to rebuild the front end on my '40 Chev. They came in MOOG boxes. My dad told me that I would have to have the bushings pressed in and reamed to fit. I told him that I didn't think that was correct for my Chev but maybe it was for our '39 Oldsmobile. A year later I had to install new king pins and bushings in my '47 Ford, they needed reaming. WALT WARREN ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL Market Value?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would go $7,000, just based on your description, fly in and drive it home. My guess is someone who is really looking for a car like this, with the replacement engine, would go 12K. Marshall will probably chime in, but the replacement engines are supposed to be free of rod problems. Sunil said part of what I would say. I also would have offered $3k or so, which means it's probably worth $5-6k to most people. If it were a W140, she might get as much as $10-12k. I think $7k for a W126 is an offer that she should strongly consider. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 1991 350SDL
Mine is the finest driving/riding car I'VE ever driven. BTW, 'been driving for 57 yrs. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin installation
Gang, I think it's worth remembering that king pins on a '39 GMC truck might be of a slightly different design than a '69 Mercedes, or for that matter a '48 to '89 Citroen 2CV. I can tell you with the 2CV there is no reaming whatsoever; the tricky part is that you need a 15-ton press to get the kingpin into the suspension arm! The 2CV's bushings do not require reaming; they are made to tolerance. If fit isn't that important, wouldn't MB just make the bushings and pins to exact tolerances and have them a drop-in fit? Presumably this is the answer to the debate... correct fit must be fairly important or there'd be no reaming specified. D. -- David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA Current Reality: 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) Goettin 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (160,000 km) Albtraum 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) Piaf http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) Brown Betty Shady Past: 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas (502,000km) 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) Sieglinde 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) Diva 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) Gertraud 1985 Toyota Camry The Slamry (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 km) 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI (74,000 km) -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin installation
Hello Tom If you say 000 589 03 53 is a adjustable reamer, I have to believe you. Using an adjustable reamer to size bushings for a new ground O.D. pin is a near stone age way of doing things. except I don't think they had actual reamers in the stone age or shortly afterward. If you want to do it that way, that's OK with me. The rest of the world, or most of it, is too busy to waste time like that, and will use more modern methods. Reaming with fixed reamers and honing come to mind. In at least one case with which I am familiar (because my son did it and told me about it) wherein a lot of stock had to come out of the new bushings for a big truck, boring one end close to final size on a mill, flipping the spindle, finding center, and boring the other end is another alternative method. The intent was to get very close by boring and finish by honing. In the real world, the pin slipped through both bushings after the second bore, and that's where the job stopped. It's still giving satisfactory service, and I can promise you if it were not, the shop would have heard about it, rather forcefully. If a kingin will slip easily through both bushings and not require being hammered into place, that's close enough. I reject a claim that slop in a bolted connection is part of the specified clearance for kin pins. Bolted connections in front suspensions have to be tight or pinned or wired. Otherwise they may come apart, and that could ruin your whole day. Having lost a front wheel (that another put up, honest) on a Model A Ford once in the distant past, I know something about front suspensions coming apart. I once broke a lower control arm in a low speed collision with a curb after sliding on ice. But you do it however you wish. That's OK with me. In racing engine paractice, wherein correct clearances and fits are much more critical than king pins ever thought about, here is one version of successful practice: Inspect, and as appropriate, size/resize main and/or rod bearing housings to a standard size. Observe the inside diameters of installed bearing shells. Specify the sizes of main and rod journals to attain the desired clearance to the crank grinder. Have experience with the particular crank grinder. If assembly proceeds normally, do no further inspection of sizes. There is no iterative resizing and trial assembly in the highly cutthroat racing world. Measure, cut to size, go on. That's the way they, or at least some of them, do it. If you want to be successful in the real world, fit kinpins to a nice oiled slip fit through both bushings, and be fat, dumb, and happy. You don't have to be fat unless you want to. Or dumb either. If you want to torture yourself with antiquated methods that originated before the time of interchangeable parts and accurate measurements, it's your time, and you can waste it however you wish. I recommend others use more modern methods, which also tend to produce a superior outcome. -30- Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:08:27 -0500 Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation Stating until the specified radial play of the kingpin has been attained pretty much means remove material until the correct tolerances are met. Changing a dimension (in steel, brass, wood, etc) until a dimension is met is by default a multi-step process. Also, including the bolt play in the final spec guarantees you have to assemble everything before measuring. Otherwise, you would not be including the bolt introduced play into the measurement. And a 000 589 03 53 is a adjustable reamer. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin installation
The bottom bolt is a conventional bolt but the top bolt is actually an assembly that's also used in one of the front end adjustments. And that same top bolt has enough clearance in the threads to accept lubrication (grease) and consequently, has a small amount of free play. Thanks, Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: Robert Bigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10/13/07 12:33 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: King pin installation -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Hello Tom If you say 000 589 03 53 is a adjustable reamer, I have to believe you. Using an adjustable reamer to size bushings for a new ground O.D. pin is a near stone age way of doing things. except I don't think they had actual reamers in the stone age or shortly afterward. If you want to do it that way, that's OK with me. The rest of the world, or most of it, is too busy to waste time like that, and will use more modern methods. Reaming with fixed reamers and honing come to mind. In at least one case with which I am familiar (because my son did it and told me about it) wherein a lot of stock had to come out of the new bushings for a big truck, boring one end close to final size on a mill, flipping the spindle, finding center, and boring the other end is another alternative method. The intent was to get very close by boring and finish by honing. In the real world, the pin slipped through both bushings after the second bore, and that's where the job stopped. It's still giving satisfactory service, and I can promise you if it were not, the shop would have heard about it, rather forcefully. If a kingin will slip easily through both bushings and not require being hammered into place, that's close enough. I reject a claim that slop in a bolted connection is part of the specified clearance for kin pins. Bolted connections in front suspensions have to be tight or pinned or wired. Otherwise they may come apart, and that could ruin your whole day. Having lost a front wheel (that another put up, honest) on a Model A Ford once in the distant past, I know something about front suspensions coming apart. I once broke a lower control arm in a low speed collision with a curb after sliding on ice. But you do it however you wish. That's OK with me. In racing engine paractice, wherein correct clearances and fits are much more critical than king pins ever thought about, here is one version of successful practice: Inspect, and as appropriate, size/resize main and/or rod bearing housings to a standard size. Observe the inside diameters of installed bearing shells. Specify the sizes of main and rod journals to attain the desired clearance to the crank grinder. Have experience with the particular crank grinder. If assembly proceeds normally, do no further inspection of sizes. There is no iterative resizing and trial assembly in the highly cutthroat racing world. Measure, cut to size, go on. That's the way they, or at least some of them, do it. If you want to be successful in the real world, fit kinpins to a nice oiled slip fit through both bushings, and be fat, dumb, and happy. You don't have to be fat unless you want to. Or dumb either. If you want to torture yourself with antiquated methods that originated before the time of interchangeable parts and accurate measurements, it's your time, and you can waste it however you wish. I recommend others use more modern methods, which also tend to produce a superior outcome. -30- Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:08:27 -0500 Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation Stating until the specified radial play of the kingpin has been attained pretty much means remove material until the correct tolerances are met. Changing a dimension (in steel, brass, wood, etc) until a dimension is met is by default a multi-step process. Also, including the bolt play in the final spec guarantees you have to assemble everything before measuring. Otherwise, you would not be including the bolt introduced play into the measurement. And a 000 589 03 53 is a adjustable reamer. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ?
Hi folks And now for something completely different. - Monty Python I'm all set to change my coolant and install the Mercedes (actully, Daimler-Chrysler) approved Zerex G-5 or whatever to go with my new Behr Mercedes Benz radiator from Germany via Rusty. Thank you Rusty. The good things they say about you are true. I'll be back with some more odd parts requests soon. Engine 102.980 in Model 123.223 1983 European 123. My information says to drain the radiator with the plastic plug, which is easy. Drain the block and head by opening the block drain on the driver's side of the block. So far that's been impossible because I can't find the thing, or haven't yet.. Can anyone help me find the so far elusive block drain? Is it a plug which I must remove and later replace? Is it a drain cock that I just haven't found yet? From what perspective can I see and/or access it ? All are welcome to help improve my inadequate knowledge on this point. Robert Bigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] EarthLink Revolves Around You. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin installation
My point exactly. But MB goes overboard with a lot of their mechanical designs. But, maybe that's one reason they last so long? And Ford the other examples used in the opposing arguements are not so critical with tolerances maybe this is one reason thay don't last so long? I do know one thing for sure, regardless of who the original manufacturer was. With a sleeve bearing, make the fit as close as possible while allowing enough clearance for proper lubrication you will get maximum life out of the bearing. This is because you have maximum load bearing between the two surfaces, which translates into minimum wear. Tom www.kegkits.com Original Message From: David Bruckmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10/13/07 11:39 AM To: Mercedes List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Gang, I think it's worth remembering that king pins on a '39 GMC truck might be of a slightly different design than a '69 Mercedes, or for that matter a '48 to '89 Citroen 2CV. I can tell you with the 2CV there is no reaming whatsoever; the tricky part is that you need a 15-ton press to get the kingpin into the suspension arm! The 2CV's bushings do not require reaming; they are made to tolerance. If fit isn't that important, wouldn't MB just make the bushings and pins to exact tolerances and have them a drop-in fit? Presumably this is the answer to the debate... correct fit must be fairly important or there'd be no reaming specified. D. -- David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA Current Reality: 1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) Goettin 1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (160,000 km) Albtraum 1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) Piaf http://dolly.bruckmann.com/ 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) Brown Betty Shady Past: 1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas (502,000km) 1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) Sieglinde 1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km) Diva 1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km) 1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) Gertraud 1985 Toyota Camry The Slamry (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 km) 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI (74,000 km) -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL Market Value?
I think that is probably the ultimate 603 engine -- the new rods, improved head, more torque, etc. It ought to be good for a LONG time. On 10/13/07, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I KNOW this is a tough crowd when it comes to these 3.5L rodbender engines, but is the longevity of the factory replacement engines better than the originals? What might a car like this fetch on the open market? Factory replacement engines are just fine. No special worries. -- Jim -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ?
If that is a 602 (should be a 616 in a W123 chassis, I think, even a Euro) the drain is on the side of the block between the last two cylinders, down at the bottom of the water jacket, or about halfway between the head gasket and the oil pan. It has a hose nipple on it and is a 19mm if I remember correctly. Works just like the wingnut type radiator drains. I believe the drain on a 616 is a plug, with a 14mm hex socket in it, but I could be wrong. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ?
Hello Peter I'll look for the thing you describe. It would be above the starter and really hard to see. Maybe that's why I haven't found it. I assure you this is a 102.980 four cylinder gasoline engine in a 123 chassis, marketed in most of the world, but not in the US, as a 230E. It is not a 230E on 124 chassis. It is a Daimler Benz model, not some kind of homemade conversion. The VIN (which I have sent to many would be suppliers who could not identify the car) is WDB 12322312170440. Build date is August 1983. I found after more than a year that the VIN does not contain the engine number, and the two are only vaguely related. Parts changes key on engine numbers, if you can believe that. Thanks for your help. [Original Message] From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: 10/13/2007 1:18:14 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ? If that is a 602 (should be a 616 in a W123 chassis, I think, even a Euro) the drain is on the side of the block between the last two cylinders, down at the bottom of the water jacket, or about halfway between the head gasket and the oil pan. It has a hose nipple on it and is a 19mm if I remember correctly. Works just like the wingnut type radiator drains. I believe the drain on a 616 is a plug, with a 14mm hex socket in it, but I could be wrong. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 1991 350SDL
What color is it? Let's see photo. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] King Pin Reamer
Greetings and Salutations Attached is the type of reamer that I used on many VW king pins when I worked for VW dealer circa 1970. Smooth clean thumb push fit. Fred Moir Lynn MA -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Reamer 2.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 13894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20071013/4ae8776f/attachment.obj ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin installation
I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this is normal or expected. Come on. I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and forth. To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, and further, that front ends do not come apart because the bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop and consequent back and forth motion. Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third rock from the sun. I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for grease to travel down threads. Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. Or is that helixes ? All that is mechanically necessary for grease to travel down threads is that the male and female parts be dimensioned such that they do not add up to a solid body. Ordinary 60 degree treads, acme, and square threads are dimensioned to not add up to a solid body. Sensitive measurements will show threaded bolts will move forward and backward (or up and down, if one prefers) in threaded holes when not tightened or otherwise bottomed. It would also be possible to provide a grease channel by a broached slot much like a keyway cut longitudinally across the female part of the threads. Old South Bend lathes have slots like that for oil holding felts on some plain bearings, which are admittedly not threaded. A common situation which all have seen that illustrates that grease can travel along threads that contain a tightly made up bolt down is the ability of penetrating oil to eventually reach the bottom of threads in a hole which contains a bolt that does not want out, and is encouraged to release itself by application of penetrating oil, with or without added heat. If the two parts add up to a solid body, or worse, if they interfere, which can happen when bolts and nuts are galvanized and threading does not allow for the thickness of galvanizing, it will be a muscle building operation or worse to run the threads on each other. I learned that the hard way. The more they differ from a solid body in sum, the greater ease with which grease can penetrate. A special bolt could easily have a special thread with standard pitch with thinner than standard threads at the root. We can cut chips almost any way we wish. Please think about what you are proposing, and see if you really want your front supension, or your friend's front suspension, put up with slop in some important bolts that hold it together. I don't think you do. --- Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation The bottom bolt is a conventional bolt but the top bolt is actually an assembly that's also used in one of the front end adjustments. And that same top bolt has enough clearance in the threads to accept lubrication (grease) and consequently, has a small amount of free play. Thanks, Tom www.kegkits.com Robert Bigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Sent: 10/13/07 12:33 PM I reject a claim that slop in a bolted connection is part of the specified clearance for kin pins. Bolted connections in front suspensions have to be tight or pinned or wired. Otherwise they may come apart, and that could ruin your whole day. Having lost a front wheel (that another put up, honest) on a Model A Ford once in the distant past, I know something about front suspensions coming apart. I once broke a lower control arm in a low speed collision with a curb after sliding on ice. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
Early morning several days ago, I drove my now nearly showroom 87 300D a few blocks to dental appt. 'Parked at curb out front. About 45 min. later back to car. Key would not go all the way in! (Only prob. I've had with it before was coupla times with wheels sitting on a bump or pavement ridge, etc., causing lock to bind, which I noticed immediately and moved steering wheel slightly to turn key. I also noticed when I got the car 3 yrs. ago that the front face of the tumbler seemed loose - I could move the face of the tumbler around easily.) In front of dentist's office, I jiggled and pushed on the key furiously while yanking on steering wheel. After about 10 min., got key fully inserted; spent another 20 min or so jiggling key and wheel with no success to turn key. ''Called AAA for tow. Hour later tow driver called while looking for me on wrong street. 10 min. later tow arrived - but it was not a TOW truck, it was haul-back. Meanwhile, I had spent time waiting for tow jiggling steering wheel and key with no success. Tow driver backed up to front of car. I told driver key wont turn, steering locked. Also told him not to remove key. He got in the car to try the key and immediately removed it. Of course, it wouldn't go back in. Car too close to curb and slanted too low near curb to get it on truck. Driver spent 45 min trying to get it on truck from front, though I told him early that it may be easier from rear - rear was angled away from curb slightly. Tow driver came to me once (I was sitting nearby with my wife in our other car.) to ask if he could free the locked steering by disconnecting battery. I tried to tell him battery has nothing to do with it - strictly mechanical between key and steering collumn. Tow driver finally moved his truck to rear of the car and got it aboard. I drove our 350SDL the several blocks to our home as the tow driver followed. I pulled in the yard and pointed to the spot to drop the car. I had brought him to the driveway in a direction that would allow backing into the yard without significantly brushing trees against the car. The tow driver screwed that up, though, and managed to drag the right side of the car WAY up into a large crepe myrtle tree 4 TIMES before finally getting in the yard. Rcvd new tumber yesterday via Rusty. While waiting for tumbler, I tried key and wheel jiggling many times with no success in getting it to turn; tried 4 different keys, including the new one. Just getting a key to fully insert each time was quite a job. I had almost consoled myself to the prospect of calling stealer 70 mi. away for tow and $700 to $800 cutting/grinding tumbler and steering lock replacement ordeal, but I don't give up that easily. Today I mounted a key on the triangular removable sanding base of a Bosch detail sander to be used as an automatic jiggler/fibrator. Had to mount it a second time using a 2 inch by 1/2 inch metal bar to extend reach - sander jammed against upper corner of center console without extension. With a key mounted on the sander base extension, I had to shove, bang, jiggle, etc., again to fully insert the key. Finally, though, the key was fully inserted, and I turned the sander on. As the sander hummed and the key fibrated, I applied back and forth twisting force to the sander. THE KEY TURNED after only about 15 seconds! I was ready to do it for an hour! I removed the sander from the key while being careful not to let the key return to OFF position. Also disconnected battery to shutdown accessories while fiddling with switch. With key in #1 position, I inserted release tool I made today from white coat hanger (had to scrape paint off to make it fit slot perfectly). Then I tried to unscrew colar/cover around tumbler as directed in SOME 124 tumbler removal instructions, but needle nose pliers won't grip it; needle nose vise grips won't grip it, and it certainly will NOT TURN on MY 124. After few min. of not being able to grip the collar or cylinder that supposedly would unscrew, I tugged on the key. The tumbler, protective cylinder - all of it slipped right out with gentle tug of the key! I quickly removed the tumbler from its protective cylinder, put the new tumbler in the cylinder and slipped it all back in place with just a bit of jiggling for proper alignment. Lesson from all this: If you begin to even suspect that the key doesn't turn right, get a new tumbler. Now that I know that tumbler and protective cylinder on MY 124 (built Oct 86) just slip in place with nothing to unscrew, no surrounding plastic to remove, etc., I can change it in less than 2 minutes. I just saved $700 to $800 by being lucky enough for the last resort sander vibrating to work - to turn key from OFF to #1 position. Also fortunate that tremor in my hands has reduced significantly in last several months allowing me to do such as this tumbler replacement again. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see
Re: [MBZ] King pin installation
OK, then look at the following three pictures. Picture1 is of the page that includes the specs. Also included on the page is a drawing of the top bottom bolt with required play for receiving lubricant. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture1.jpg Picture2 is of the page that shows the entire assembly, including the 2 bolts (item 2 in drawing on right) with required play for receiving lubricant. Picture2 also contains the procedure for reaming the kingpin bushings to size. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture2.jpg Picture3 shows the threaded bolt with required play for receiving lubricant in greater detail (item 8). The groove that's cut in the center is used to distribute the grease from the grease fitting all the way around the threaded bolt with required play for receiving lubricant so that the grease can easily penetrate the threads. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture3.jpg Any other questions? I have one of these assemblies, new, in my garage. Do you want me to disassemble it, measure it confirm that it really does have some free play? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Robert Bigham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:03 PM To: Tom Hargrave; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this is normal or expected. Come on. I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and forth. To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, and further, that front ends do not come apart because the bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop and consequent back and forth motion. Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third rock from the sun. I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for grease to travel down threads. Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. Or is that helixes ? All that is mechanically necessary for grease to travel down threads is that the male and female parts be dimensioned such that they do not add up to a solid body. Ordinary 60 degree treads, acme, and square threads are dimensioned to not add up to a solid body. Sensitive measurements will show threaded bolts will move forward and backward (or up and down, if one prefers) in threaded holes when not tightened or otherwise bottomed. It would also be possible to provide a grease channel by a broached slot much like a keyway cut longitudinally across the female part of the threads. Old South Bend lathes have slots like that for oil holding felts on some plain bearings, which are admittedly not threaded. A common situation which all have seen that illustrates that grease can travel along threads that contain a tightly made up bolt down is the ability of penetrating oil to eventually reach the bottom of threads in a hole which contains a bolt that does not want out, and is encouraged to release itself by application of penetrating oil, with or without added heat. If the two parts add up to a solid body, or worse, if they interfere, which can happen when bolts and nuts are galvanized and threading does not allow for the thickness of galvanizing, it will be a muscle building operation or worse to run the threads on each other. I learned that the hard way. The more they differ from a solid body in sum, the greater ease with which grease can penetrate. A special bolt could easily have a special thread with standard pitch with thinner than standard threads at the root. We can cut chips almost any way we wish. Please think about what you are proposing, and see if you really want your front supension, or your friend's front suspension, put up with slop in some important bolts that hold it together. I don't think you do. --- Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation The bottom bolt is a conventional bolt but the top bolt is actually an assembly that's also used in one of the front end adjustments. And that same top bolt has enough clearance in the threads to accept lubrication (grease) and consequently, has a small
Re: [MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ?
What the heck are you talking about? The motor in question is a M102 not a OM. However you are close to the mark, the block drain plug is on the exhaust manifold side about halfway along the block. Pain to get at and I think it is 17mm. Make sure that the heater is set to full on while you run the motor to get it up to operating temp before dropping the coolant but wait till the temp drops so as to avoid a trip to hospital with second degree burns. Also leave the heater taps turned on to drain as much coolant as possible out of the cabin heating system. If the coolant is dirty and a lot of sludge comes out it is advisable to flush the system. Also put a piece of half inch garden hose on the radiator drain but some say it is better to remove the bottom radiator hose to get the coolant out faster and avoid sediment settlement but that is being pedantic. Peter Frederick wrote: If that is a 602 (should be a 616 in a W123 chassis, I think, even a Euro) the drain is on the side of the block between the last two cylinders, down at the bottom of the water jacket, or about halfway between the head gasket and the oil pan. It has a hose nipple on it and is a 19mm if I remember correctly. Works just like the wingnut type radiator drains. I believe the drain on a 616 is a plug, with a 14mm hex socket in it, but I could be wrong. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ?
If you are searching around the starter you are on the wrong side. Robert Bigham wrote: Hello Peter I'll look for the thing you describe. It would be above the starter and really hard to see. Maybe that's why I haven't found it. I assure you this is a 102.980 four cylinder gasoline engine in a 123 chassis, marketed in most of the world, but not in the US, as a 230E. It is not a 230E on 124 chassis. It is a Daimler Benz model, not some kind of homemade conversion. The VIN (which I have sent to many would be suppliers who could not identify the car) is WDB 12322312170440. Build date is August 1983. I found after more than a year that the VIN does not contain the engine number, and the two are only vaguely related. Parts changes key on engine numbers, if you can believe that. Thanks for your help. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
Ahh yes, job 46-8110. Why didn't you ask? http://www.mbcnsw.org.au/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=424b7351fe83eae762c431b2f4966826action=dlattach;topic=2427.0;attach=1565 wilton strickland wrote: Early morning several days ago, I drove my now nearly showroom 87 300D a few blocks to dental appt. 'Parked at curb out front. About 45 min. later back SNIPPED ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
but I don't give up that easily. Always a useful trait! Today I mounted a key on the triangular removable sanding base of a Bosch detail sander to be used as an automatic jiggler/fibrator. Interesting idea. I just saved $700 to $800 by being lucky enough for the last resort sander vibrating to work Congratulations, doesn't it feel nice? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Brain picking: Who knows about 102 engine block drain ?
This is a Euro car, imported to the USA. 230E, 123 They are great cars! At 08:36 PM 10/13/2007, you wrote: If you are searching around the starter you are on the wrong side. Robert Bigham wrote: Hello Peter I'll look for the thing you describe. It would be above the starter and really hard to see. Maybe that's why I haven't found it. I assure you this is a 102.980 four cylinder gasoline engine in a 123 chassis, marketed in most of the world, but not in the US, as a 230E. It is not a 230E on 124 chassis. It is a Daimler Benz model, not some kind of homemade conversion. The VIN (which I have sent to many would be suppliers who could not identify the car) is WDB 12322312170440. Build date is August 1983. I found after more than a year that the VIN does not contain the engine number, and the two are only vaguely related. Parts changes key on engine numbers, if you can believe that. Thanks for your help. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL
I agree the 126 is the best car ever made, and the OM 603 versions are the best of the best! Jeez Wilton, you must have had several thousand hours of flying time in before you drove! By my calculation you must have been flying for about 6-7 years at least before driving! Inquiring minds want to know. BTW, how is the book coming? I want an autographed copy! How about a rundown on the military planes you flew and the year you first flew each? Loren At 10:40 AM 10/13/2007, you wrote: Mine is the finest driving/riding car I'VE ever driven. BTW, 'been driving for 57 yrs. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
Why didn't I ask? 'Cause I read lots of posts and several sets of instructions on the subject (specifically, 124) in this forum's and mercedesshop's archives. 'Thought if I asked, likely response would have been, Check archives. BTW, I was already well-versed on the subject 'cept the protective collar, etc, not unscrewing. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
BTW, just checked job 46-8110. I didn't even have to remove (and did not) small panel around the switch (37L). Thnx. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL Market Value?
Here's one on eBay. http://tinyurl.com/2lenky I once saw one on a car lot locally. Drove it. It had LESS power than my '83 SD so I'm sure the engine wasn't in top shape. They wanted around $8k for it and it had been on the market for 8 months. I told them it was worth $2k with a most likely bad engine. If they could show me that the engine was a factory replacement, it could be worth $8-12k. Drove by a week or 2 later, and they jacked the price up to $12,995. I think it sold a week or so later. Luther, from IowaQ On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 06:28:52 -0500, Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would go $7,000, just based on your description, fly in and drive it home. My guess is someone who is really looking for a car like this, with the replacement engine, would go 12K. Marshall will probably chime in, but the replacement engines are supposed to be free of rod problems. Sunil said part of what I would say. I also would have offered $3k or so, which means it's probably worth $5-6k to most people. If it were a W140, she might get as much as $10-12k. I think $7k for a W126 is an offer that she should strongly consider. Mitch. -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (169 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL Market Value?
Get off my DSL, you leach! On 10/13/07, Luther - laptop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's one on eBay. http://tinyurl.com/2lenky -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish. Make a small loan, Make a big difference - Kiva.org ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 1991 350SDL
Started driving in 1950; to B-52's in 1962. Which book? In The BUFF finished 4 yrs ago; A Carolina Country Boy finished 2 yrs ago. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL Market Value?
Help me fix this wireless! On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:07:09 -0500, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get off my DSL, you leach! On 10/13/07, Luther - laptop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's one on eBay. http://tinyurl.com/2lenky -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (169 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] King pin Grease
Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity of the bushes. Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the suspension nipples? mak - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation OK, then look at the following three pictures. Picture1 is of the page that includes the specs. Also included on the page is a drawing of the top bottom bolt with required play for receiving lubricant. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture1.jpg Picture2 is of the page that shows the entire assembly, including the 2 bolts (item 2 in drawing on right) with required play for receiving lubricant. Picture2 also contains the procedure for reaming the kingpin bushings to size. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture2.jpg Picture3 shows the threaded bolt with required play for receiving lubricant in greater detail (item 8). The groove that's cut in the center is used to distribute the grease from the grease fitting all the way around the threaded bolt with required play for receiving lubricant so that the grease can easily penetrate the threads. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture3.jpg Any other questions? I have one of these assemblies, new, in my garage. Do you want me to disassemble it, measure it confirm that it really does have some free play? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Robert Bigham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:03 PM To: Tom Hargrave; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this is normal or expected. Come on. I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and forth. To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, and further, that front ends do not come apart because the bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop and consequent back and forth motion. Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third rock from the sun. I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for grease to travel down threads. Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. Or is that helixes ? All that is mechanically necessary for grease to travel down threads is that the male and female parts be dimensioned such that they do not add up to a solid body. Ordinary 60 degree treads, acme, and square threads are dimensioned to not add up to a solid body. Sensitive measurements will show threaded bolts will move forward and backward (or up and down, if one prefers) in threaded holes when not tightened or otherwise bottomed. It would also be possible to provide a grease channel by a broached slot much like a keyway cut longitudinally across the female part of the threads. Old South Bend lathes have slots like that for oil holding felts on some plain bearings, which are admittedly not threaded. A common situation which all have seen that illustrates that grease can travel along threads that contain a tightly made up bolt down is the ability of penetrating oil to eventually reach the bottom of threads in a hole which contains a bolt that does not want out, and is encouraged to release itself by application of penetrating oil, with or without added heat. If the two parts add up to a solid body, or worse, if they interfere, which can happen when bolts and nuts are galvanized and threading does not allow for the thickness of galvanizing, it will be a muscle building operation or worse to run the threads on each other. I learned that the hard way. The more they differ from a solid body in sum, the greater ease with which grease can penetrate. A special bolt could easily have a special thread with standard pitch with thinner than standard threads at the root. We can cut chips almost any way we wish. Please think about what you are proposing, and see if you really want your front supension, or your friend's front suspension, put up with slop in some important bolts that hold it together. I don't think you do.
[MBZ] 1991 350SDL
'Just realized - 'cause mine still has orig. engine and 188 kmi, I might aughta buy this one with replaced eng. and only 170 kmi. But I'm leary of cars from FL - I'v seen several with MANY more miles than claimed. Wonder what color, etc., it is. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
Wilton, Congratulations on getting the tumbler out! One thing I've learned the hard way (and this only applies IF the steering lock on the W124 is made in the same way as the 123/126) is that after replacing a tumbler on two cars, I had a steering lock problem soon after. With my cars it was really the lock that was at issue, and the tumbler mechanism was secondary. That said, replacing the tumbler on both cars was due in any case. Tony Wirtel '92 300e, former 300TD and 300sdl ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL
I got born in 1952 ... and I have grandchildren. ;-) On 10/13/07, wilton strickland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Started driving in 1950; to B-52's in 1962. Which book? In The BUFF finished 4 yrs ago; A Carolina Country Boy finished 2 yrs ago. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish. Make a small loan, Make a big difference - Kiva.org ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] [Banned] WiFi in win2k
Network Stumbler is a great program, BUT it doesn't actually control the connection. It only tells you which networks are out there. McAfee's wireless security program controls the connection completely. That is what I needed. http://www.wirelesssecuritycorp.com/wsc/public/Downloads.do Luther On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:11:38 -0500, Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just purchased a new internal WiFi card for my ThinkPad R32. After updating the bios and finally getting the driver to work, I cannot figure out how to scan for networks. There isn't anything in the card's settings in control panel that allow me to tell it what network to use. After some long searches on Google, most all that I have read tells me to use the software that comes with the card. There is none. What am I missing here??? TIA all. I'm off to make the first leg of my journeyheaded to stop 1 in Kansas. Luther -- Luther KB5QHUAlma, Ark '87 300SDL (272,xxx mi) head case '85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x58,xxx mi) '82 300CD (169 kmi) '82 300D (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold '85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL
no updates on the Q? anyone show up? On 10/13/07, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got born in 1952 ... and I have grandchildren. ;-) On 10/13/07, wilton strickland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Started driving in 1950; to B-52's in 1962. Which book? In The BUFF finished 4 yrs ago; A Carolina Country Boy finished 2 yrs ago. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish. Make a small loan, Make a big difference - Kiva.org ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL
Old fart! z On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:31:14 -0500, Wonko the Sane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got born in 1952 ... and I have grandchildren. ;-) On 10/13/07, wilton strickland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Started driving in 1950; to B-52's in 1962. Which book? In The BUFF finished 4 yrs ago; A Carolina Country Boy finished 2 yrs ago. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 124 tumbler close call!
Congratulations Wilton and thanks for sharing all the details with us. BTW, I worked on the engines of those B-52s you flew, I must be good because you're still here, you're welcome. (grin) Harry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] IowaQ update!
We had fun. No one got wasted and made a fool of him/herself, there was plenty of food (my frig is bursting at the seams with leftovers), and I got to drive Tommy's 1998 S420. I need one -- would look good in my garage. I am in LOVE. Robbin's 300D snapped my neck and made me reluctant to climb back into my 240D. My wife wants one just like it to replace her Buick. Everyone got to drive everyone else's cars -- including Kleb at the wheel of my Quantum. I am a bit disappointed that no one asked to drive my 240D, but I guess all attending had driven a riding lawn mower before. Summary for those who missed it. Weather forecast was partly cloudy with a 30% chance of rain. The 30% started about 10 pm last night and continued on and off all day long. Fortunately, I have a large garage so Debbie and I swept and cleaned all morning long, and the venue was ready at 11:45 (for a noon kickoff). Sixteen chairs from my business hauled in the back seat of a 240D and we had a party. In other words, my $2K deck, that should have been the cornerstone of the party, was not walked upon (except by a really cool dog). Thanks to all who attended. A memorable day and perhaps we shall do it again next year. After all, you can't get more center of the nation than Iowa! Several folks took pics but I forgot to take any myself. Hopefully those who did will upload them. -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish. Make a small loan, Make a big difference - Kiva.org ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] King pin Grease
Any modern, quality grease will do fine as you don't have the heat soak problems you have with disk brake wheel bearings, but it will not hurt to use the same high temperature grease you use for wheel bearings. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M.Affzaal.Khan Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 10:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] King pin Grease Surely the correct type of grease would make a difference to the longevity of the bushes. Would molybdenum grease among the recommendations for greasing the suspension nipples? mak - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] King pin installation OK, then look at the following three pictures. Picture1 is of the page that includes the specs. Also included on the page is a drawing of the top bottom bolt with required play for receiving lubricant. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture1.jpg Picture2 is of the page that shows the entire assembly, including the 2 bolts (item 2 in drawing on right) with required play for receiving lubricant. Picture2 also contains the procedure for reaming the kingpin bushings to size. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture2.jpg Picture3 shows the threaded bolt with required play for receiving lubricant in greater detail (item 8). The groove that's cut in the center is used to distribute the grease from the grease fitting all the way around the threaded bolt with required play for receiving lubricant so that the grease can easily penetrate the threads. http://www.kegkits.com/Mercedes/Picture3.jpg Any other questions? I have one of these assemblies, new, in my garage. Do you want me to disassemble it, measure it confirm that it really does have some free play? Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Robert Bigham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:03 PM To: Tom Hargrave; mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: RE: RE: King pin installation I continue to reject the idea that bolts holding a front suspension together, like holding a steering arm to a spindle, have slop and actually work back and forth in use, and this is normal or expected. Come on. I could be convinced by a drawing showning the parts and the clearance specified for the bolts to work back and forth. To me, it defies common sense to assert that there is slop, and further, that front ends do not come apart because the bolts that are intentionally loose on installation do not eventually complete their loosening and fall out, or alternatively the bolts do not wear out because of the slop and consequent back and forth motion. Perhaps they do on Planet Zork. I think not on Earth, third rock from the sun. I will make an exception for things like spring shackles, where the pins are generally not bottomed and can work backward and forward. Spring shackle bolts will eventually wear out.l although they will last a very long time if kept greased. It is not necessary that there be slop and movement between the male and female parts of threads where a bolt is tight for grease to travel down threads. Each part of the threads, that is, the male part and female part, is a helix, and grease will travel down the part of the larger female helix in the that contains the clearance between the two helices. Or is that helixes ? All that is mechanically necessary for grease to travel down threads is that the male and female parts be dimensioned such that they do not add up to a solid body. Ordinary 60 degree treads, acme, and square threads are dimensioned to not add up to a solid body. Sensitive measurements will show threaded bolts will move forward and backward (or up and down, if one prefers) in threaded holes when not tightened or otherwise bottomed. It would also be possible to provide a grease channel by a broached slot much like a keyway cut longitudinally across the female part of the threads. Old South Bend lathes have slots like that for oil holding felts on some plain bearings, which are admittedly not threaded. A common situation which all have seen that illustrates that grease can travel along threads that contain a tightly made up bolt down is the ability of penetrating oil to eventually reach the bottom of threads in a hole which contains a bolt that does not want out, and is encouraged to release itself by application of penetrating oil, with or without added heat. If the two parts add up to a solid body, or worse, if they interfere, which can happen when bolts and nuts are galvanized and threading does not allow for the thickness of galvanizing, it will be a muscle building operation or worse to run the threads on each other. I learned that the hard way. The
Re: [MBZ] 1991 350SDL
Sorry, I guess I missed something along the line! Last I knew you were working on a book. I'm not sure which one that was. Time flies... Anyway, where are the books available? Got a movie coming out yet? (only partially joking on the movie.) Loren At 10:00 PM 10/13/2007, you wrote: Started driving in 1950; to B-52's in 1962. Which book? In The BUFF finished 4 yrs ago; A Carolina Country Boy finished 2 yrs ago. Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] IowaQ update!
Thanks for the report, Lt. Don. Hopefully someone was taking photos Too bad it wasn't 2K miles closer to me...I ended up having the day off. Bob R. Went and saw Across the Universe instead. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wonko the Sane Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:53 PM To: Banned List; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] IowaQ update! We had fun. No one got wasted and made a fool of him/herself, there was plenty of food (my frig is bursting at the seams with leftovers), and I got to drive Tommy's 1998 S420. I need one -- would look good in my garage. I am in LOVE. Robbin's 300D snapped my neck and made me reluctant to climb back into my 240D. My wife wants one just like it to replace her Buick. Everyone got to drive everyone else's cars -- including Kleb at the wheel of my Quantum. I am a bit disappointed that no one asked to drive my 240D, but I guess all attending had driven a riding lawn mower before. Summary for those who missed it. Weather forecast was partly cloudy with a 30% chance of rain. The 30% started about 10 pm last night and continued on and off all day long. Fortunately, I have a large garage so Debbie and I swept and cleaned all morning long, and the venue was ready at 11:45 (for a noon kickoff). Sixteen chairs from my business hauled in the back seat of a 240D and we had a party. In other words, my $2K deck, that should have been the cornerstone of the party, was not walked upon (except by a really cool dog). Thanks to all who attended. A memorable day and perhaps we shall do it again next year. After all, you can't get more center of the nation than Iowa! Several folks took pics but I forgot to take any myself. Hopefully those who did will upload them. -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ Proudly marching to the beat of a different kettle of fish. Make a small loan, Make a big difference - Kiva.org ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
