[MBZ] OT - another Acetone/ATF formula --

[OK Don]

This one's for cleaning guns, but sounds useful for lots of things.

http://home.comcast.net/~dsmjd/tux/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm

-- 
OK Don
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
others.
The Devil's Dictionary
Ambrose Bierce
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[OK Don]

One of the regional ice cream chains here did reduce the size of the
container to 1.5 quarts, but also lowered the price proportionaly. However,
I don't expect that to last too long.

There's a lot of psychology behind the perception of inflation - we notice
one thing going up, and think that our whole grocery bill has ballooned. If
you check clodsely, you might find that it hasn't changed all that much. It
juist feels like it has because a staple like milk has gone up (I suspect
this does have a major impact on Kaleb's household). Then we feel squeezed,
whether it's real or not, and respond accordingly, adding to the depression.

(Someone else has already typed most of this). Of course, if your staples
are that group that is increasing in price, then inflation is real for you.
Mine aren't increasing much, so I don't see it. We buy vewry little
processed or convenience food.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:19 PM, Allan Streib wrote:

> "Kaleb C. Striplin"  writes:
>
> > Food costs at the grocery store these days have skyrockets.  Its just
> > crazy what stuff is selling for these days.
>
> Have you also noticed that container sizes are shrinking?  Used to buy
> 1/2 gallon ice cream containers now they are 1.5 quarts for the same
> price.
>
> Allan
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
> distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
> others.
> The Devil's Dictionary
> Ambrose Bierce
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Allan Streib]

"Kaleb C. Striplin"  writes:

> Food costs at the grocery store these days have skyrockets.  Its just
> crazy what stuff is selling for these days.

Have you also noticed that container sizes are shrinking?  Used to buy
1/2 gallon ice cream containers now they are 1.5 quarts for the same
price.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Max Dillon]

I don't see that here in Charleston.  If anything, food prices have dropped.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:29 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic
Price for this?

Food costs at the grocery store these days have skyrockets.  Its just 
crazy what stuff is selling for these days.

Max Dillon wrote:
> The money/economy talk show that I really enjoy (Money Talk with Bob
> Brinker) has had many conversations about inflation and what causes it,
and
> Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
> price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
> first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event
courtesy
> of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident,
but
> when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
> inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not
nearly
> as strong as it used to be.
>
> I think the more real risk is the populations reaction to rising fuel
costs
> and the impact that behavior has on the economy.  I'm also worried that
the
> Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and we'll get
> bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.
>
> Of course, the government keeps changing the definitions of inflation and
> unemployment in its favor to justify the policies of the party in power,
so
> I think that direct observation needs to be balanced against such biases.
> Personally I cannot believe how cheap electronics goods, clothes, eating
> out, etc. etc is right now.  Great deals are out there...
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Donald Snook
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: 'Mercedes@okiebenz.com'
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?
>
> Dave Walton wrote: "Once the economy starts rebounding and fuel goes over
> $5/gallon,"
>
> I sure hope you are wrong about that.  Plus, if gas/fuel goes to $5/gallon
> won't that kill any economic growth that got the price there.  When the
> price of fuel goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.  Nearly everything is dependent
> on transportation costs and when the cost to transport doubles, I would
> think that everything would have to go up as well.  Isn't that allegedly
why
> food prices are so much higher than they were a few years ago.  I am not
an
> economist, but this makes sense to me.
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
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>   

-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 
 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 
 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, 
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Max Dillon]

While in Miami a couple weeks ago, we stopped at a mall for my wife to visit
a particular chain store.  The mall looked very pretty from the outside,
except very few cars in the parking lot.  Inside, it was a ghost town, and
the majority of the "store fronts" were empty.  The place just smelled of
economic death.  One entire wing was fenced off with yellow security tape,
and most of the lights were either burned out or turned off.  The haunted
look in the eyes of the few remaining employees was a new experience for me.
They looked just plain tired and hopeless and didn't really care at all but
were going through the motions because they still had a paycheck.  I asked
one lady where the store was that we were looking for, she gave me a look
like I just stepped out of a flying saucer and informed me that store had
closed long ago.  Only one sandwich place open in the food court.

We drove a few miles down the road to find another branch of the store, and
that area appeared to be thriving.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Redghost
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:41 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic
Price for this?

Yes, it is going down.  Much more down.  This is not some new age  
aberration, but will develop into much the same as we experienced from  
1930-1939.

As then, not everybody was fully employed, and those who were, became  
less so.  Ability to consume products will become a luxury, as it did  
for my parents.  No real need to have a huge TV, gourmet or junk  
foods, newest toys, keeping up with Mr. Smith or Jones.  It will be  
the battle to keep ones head above water and become far more frugal  
with the limited assets available to you.

There are many mall stores that will close down, flooding the job  
market with retail drones.  They are let go because not enough young  
people can get mom or dad to fund the fashion merry go round.  This  
leads to fewer drones able to frequent the mall, and even fewer people  
needed to man the halls of consumer excess.

No job will translate into losing the house, which floods the market  
with cheap housing that banks are underwater on.  Foreclosed homes,  
condo buildings and commercial space then sit empty and banks and  
owners go under.

My household income has dropped in the mid five figures because of  
this economy.  I expect to take at least that big a hit again in the  
next two to three years.  I still retain reasonable equity in  
property, but the flow just is not there anymore.  Renters are just  
too poor to afford homes and moving back with mom or grandma.

clay




On Dec 30, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

> Max wrote:
>> I'm also worried that the
>> Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and  
>> we'll get
>> bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.
>
> What industry is not in the dumps or going in to the dumps, these  
> days?
> There are numbers that are not even counted.
> For instance: Am I unemployed?
> No, but 10 months ago I was told to come in to the office 4 days each
> week.  Next week I go in to the office 3 days each week.  One of the
> salesman guys told how the entire corporation is working 4 days - CEO
> on down the whole corporation.
> Those numbers do not count in the unemployment numbers - but I bet
> there are quite a few of us out there doing the same jazz.
> This thing ain't done, by a long shot.  From the little bit of biz
> radio I hear, we will go down some more.  Housing cannot be the hope
> we all wait for.  But it drives all development, all production.  I
> think a reshape of the economy would be nice - away from housing.
> Military-Industrial-Complex anyone?
> mao
>
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Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[Max Dillon]

Harry,

Well then, you've got a puzzle to keep you busy.  Could the wiring in the
door jamb accordion joint have failed?  That's a common failure on 124 cars.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of harry watkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:13 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

Max, the SDL works as you stated, I was trying to make the point that I 
tried it in all situations.

Thanks
Harry

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon" 
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides


> Harry,
>
> I don't think the power seats work with key on and door open.  I think 
> it's
> either key on/door closed or key off and out and door open.  I may be 
> wrong
> - never owned an S class and haven't really played around with my 124 but 
> I
> do know that key off and door open will allow them to work.
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of harry watkins
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:38 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides
>
> Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on, running, door
> open and in or out of seat.
>
> I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers 1986
> through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has
> diagrams that seem to cover my problem.
>
> I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the fuse 
> box,
> but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.  However, FYI
> this is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16
> update.  (but soon will)
>
> I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay are
> involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.
>
> Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing with an
> electrical ignoramus.
>
> Thanks
> Harry
>
> PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned
> refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Gary Hurst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ObSgFliqzc&feature=related

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Mountain Man  wrote:

> Dwight wrote:
> > I hear you-I was sort of kidding-rally don't want to sell it and probably
> > won't.
>
> My '84 is all manual also - I like it.
> Maybe we can have a reunion of manuals if I make it to chowdah '10.
>  mao
>
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>
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>



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save 5% on our already low, low prices.  use coupon code DAVE at checkout.
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Re: [MBZ] gold?

[Mountain Man]

RLE wrote:
> Really?
>
> Odd, since I just read a story recently saying...

I'll find a link to mine - you find a link to yours.
Deal?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[LarryT]

My 300D's light in that position is low Windshield Wiper Fluid.  And it's 
yellow...


The 94 E320 OM (Owners Manual) says the same thing...

LarryT
91 300D

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: "Mitch Haley" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:20 PM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.


WILTON wrote:
OK, you got me.  'Didn't even notice the 500 part; 'just saw that 
familiar instrument cluster and a question about glow.


I was joking about the glow, but not about the oil lamp. Didn't know what 
yellow lamps there are in a 124 or what that particular lamp is, but if 
it's oil or brakes, I think the driver is a fool.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Mountain Man]

Dwight wrote:
> I hear you-I was sort of kidding-rally don't want to sell it and probably
> won't.

My '84 is all manual also - I like it.
Maybe we can have a reunion of manuals if I make it to chowdah '10.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Ethanol or not in MB engines + Oz Diesels?

[Hendrik & Fay]

When I say "same" I meant in the design of the motors, SOHC, two valves 
per pot, etc, etc. The 102 was designed long before the 103 and I doubt 
that it is "a little technically advanced in design compared to a 103" 
or did MB decide to go backwards when they came up with the 103?
There is some weirdness in the way MB do things, like keep the M110 
motor going until the mid eighties, go to SOHC and then back to DOHC.


To save me writing another email, I shall answer the question as to 
whether we got the OM line of motors in the passenger cars, yes we did 
but no turbos and only in the W and S chassis, not the C chassis or S class.
Diesels where not that popular as engines in passenger cars (different 
story in the 4x4 market), they are getting more widespread since the CDI 
technology came along.
A lot of Farmers bought the Diesel Mercs but when you are paying three 
times the going rate for a car you tend to not worry about fuel costs.


Hendrik

Peter Frederick wrote:
There are two sizes of M103 -- 2.6L and 3.0L, so I would guess one has smaller bores that the usual 102, and the other is the same for the 3.0L.  


Peter


-Original Message-
  

From: Robert Bigham 
Sent: Dec 30, 2009 2:05 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ethanol or not?





  3. Ethanol or not? (Max Dillon)
  7. Re: E10 (relng...@aol.com)
  8. Re: Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not? (OK Don)

--
  
If they're advertising "No ethanol", I suppose it pretty nearly has to be true. Salut!  


New and newish pumps around here, including Exxon, all say "Contains 10% Ethanol", 
sometimes they also say "by volume".

Hendrik is correct that there are many 102 engines, and several compression ratios.  The differences are in the pistons and the head.  102.980 is European, British (UK), and most of rest of world, has pop-up pistons, and does indeed have 9.0 to 1 compression, which I believe is as high as MBZ attained on Engine 102.  Zoom zoom.  Other 102's I have seen have flat top or similar two-level top pistons. 


I believe the highest compression on any other 102 engine is 8.0 or 8.5 to 1 0n 
102.961 and/or possibly 102.965. I think I could look it up if it were vital to 
get it correct.

Engine 103 is not just Engine 102 with two more cylinders.  102 has 2,399 cc displacement = about 600 cc per cylinder.  Engine 103 has about 2,800 cc displacement (they are rare around here, as is Engine 102) = about 467 cc per cylinder.  Some 102 and 103 parts do interchange, so the difference may be in part one of scale on the rotating assembly.  I think the timing components interchange.  Don't bet the rent on that, though.  




Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:01:17 +1030
From: Hendrik & Fay 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?

FAIK the 103 is the same as the 102 but has two more pistons and more 
get up and go.
Also compression in the 102 is not the same, UK motors have higher comp 
than the Oz models.


Hendrik

Robert Bigham wrote:
  
My 1983 123.223 has 9.0 to 1 compression on 102.980 (Euro and Rest of World Specification) engine.  Has Bosch CIS not CIS-E injection.  Marked on body at fuel cap "BLEIFREI SUPER."  Book says use 93 RON (Research Octane?). For a long time I ran 92 octane (R+M)/2.  Finally I said what the hey and tried 87 (R+M/2).  Timing set per book.  

No problems whatsoever.  27 mpg on highway 80 mph and less.  20-22 mpg in general driving mostly in town lots of starts and stops.  Top speed well exceeds 105 mph indicated. I understand 120 mph indicated is close. I haven't tried it. 


FWIW I think the 102 engine may be a little technically advanced in design 
compared to a 103.  Maybe not.  Has hemispherical combustion chambers, sohc 
with long rocker arms, and I think canted valves.  I know my 102.980 hung the 
moon in my book.  Zoom
zoom at all of you.  




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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[OK Don]

Yes - the 124 E500s and 500Es were partnered with Porsche. Htere were
several round trips between the two factories for each car.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 11:48 AM, LarryT  wrote:

> Here's a different E500 video -
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
> Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!
>
> Are these 93/94 E500's the ones Porsche
>
> LarryT
> 91 300D
>
> --
> OK Don
> CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
> distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
> others.
> The Devil's Dictionary
> Ambrose Bierce
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Curt Raymond]

There was a guy on the radio (NPR?) a couple weeks ago saying coins were the 
best gold investment.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:11:26 -0500
From: "LarryT" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More
    Realistic    Pricefor this?
Message-ID: <3907ef9d984840749786245fc73ca...@laptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=response

I heard once that holding bars was tough since some unscrupulous people 
would melt them and take a little bit out of dilute them to 18k.

I guess a assay would be needed to confirm it.  I have some coins which 
hopefully are easy to sell when the time comes?

LarryT
91 300D

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
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[MBZ] Another SAAB story

[RELNGSON]

General Motors has apparently extended its December 31 deadline to sell its 
Saab brand while continuing the 'orderly wind-down' process. A Saab 
spokesman also told just-auto today that the firm plans to resume the 
production of 
cars from January 11.
 GM said on December 18 that it would begin the wind-down of the brand 
after a proposed sale to Netherlands-based exotic sports car maker Spyker had 
hit due diligence problems. Spyker had emerged as a leading bidder for Saab 
following the withdrawal of Koenigsegg as preferred bidder in November.
 However, following GM's Saab wind-down announcement, Spyker submitted a 
revised bid amid some uncertainty over the status of GM's original December 31 
sale deadline. Reports suggest that the end-year Saab sale deadline has now 
been dropped.
 Spyker Cars CEO Victor Muller told Reuters today that GM had extended the 
deadline for a final offer from Spyker Cars until January 7. Muller added he 
believed there are multiple bidders for Saab.
 Saab spokesman Eric Greer told just-auto today that GM had decided to 
initiate the wind-down process while at the same time evaluating bids.
 "When GM will communicate the outcome of the evaluation we don't know," he 
said.
 He also confirmed that Saab will start meeting customer orders and will 
start producing cars from January 11.
 Publicly, GM executives have declined to identify their problems with 
Spyker, but several officials familiar with the private negotiations have said 
GM was troubled by Spyker's reliance on Russian loans to finance the deal, as 
well as the fate of Saab's proprietary technology under Spyker. The biggest 
investor in Spyker is the Russian bank Convers Group.
 Another snag has been the question of whether Spyker could win a loan from 
the European Investment Bank.
 Earlier this month, Saab also announced that it had closed on the sale of 
some 9-3, current 9-5 and powertrain technology and tooling to Beijing 
Automotive Industry Holdings (BAIC), a move that raised much-needed cash for 
the 
beleaguered brand.
 The news that the Trollhattan plant is planning a production resumption 
and that negotiations with Spyker (and possibly other bidders) are not yet 
dead will keep hopes alive in Sweden that a deal can be concluded early in the 
new year to keep Saab going - in some form - under a new owner.
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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[WILTON]

I think it's windshield washer fluid level.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.


'Almost went out to peek at mine, too, but decided to wait 'til tomorrow, 
'cause it's cold - well, "feels" colder than usual here, anyway.  hee, hee


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "E M" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



My downfall was always forgetting to turn the exam page over for the
questions on the other side. lol

That warning lamp might be for a "failed light bulb", but I'll have to 
peek
at the cluster tomorrow.  I think low window wash fluid is on that side 
too

?

Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 

OK, you got me.  'Didn't even notice the 500 part; 'just saw that 
familiar
instrument cluster and a question about glow.  That's what I get, again, 
for

incomplete reading.  Like "they" used to (say - probably still do) in
reference to quizzes, etc., "RTFQ."   ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "E M" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.


 Glow plugs on a 500 ?  hee hee


Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 

 Glow is on the far right.


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



 LarryT wrote:



 Here's a different E500 video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!



Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] gold?

[RELNGSON]

> There was a story I read recently that said the bars today are made 
> of tungsten.
> So, India who made the last huge purchase from IMF perhaps has a stash
> of tungsten.
> An interesting concept.
> mao..
> 
Really?

Odd, since I just read a story recently saying today's gold bars are 
comprised of compressed horseshit painted rattle can gold.

Lesseewhere did I see that?...

RLE



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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[WILTON]

'Almost went out to peek at mine, too, but decided to wait 'til tomorrow, 
'cause it's cold - well, "feels" colder than usual here, anyway.  hee, hee


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "E M" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



My downfall was always forgetting to turn the exam page over for the
questions on the other side. lol

That warning lamp might be for a "failed light bulb", but I'll have to 
peek
at the cluster tomorrow.  I think low window wash fluid is on that side 
too

?

Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 

OK, you got me.  'Didn't even notice the 500 part; 'just saw that 
familiar
instrument cluster and a question about glow.  That's what I get, again, 
for

incomplete reading.  Like "they" used to (say - probably still do) in
reference to quizzes, etc., "RTFQ."   ;<)

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "E M" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM

Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.


 Glow plugs on a 500 ?  hee hee


Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 

 Glow is on the far right.


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



 LarryT wrote:



 Here's a different E500 video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!



Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Food costs at the grocery store these days have skyrockets.  Its just 
crazy what stuff is selling for these days.


Max Dillon wrote:

The money/economy talk show that I really enjoy (Money Talk with Bob
Brinker) has had many conversations about inflation and what causes it, and
Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event courtesy
of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident, but
when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not nearly
as strong as it used to be.

I think the more real risk is the populations reaction to rising fuel costs
and the impact that behavior has on the economy.  I'm also worried that the
Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and we'll get
bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.

Of course, the government keeps changing the definitions of inflation and
unemployment in its favor to justify the policies of the party in power, so
I think that direct observation needs to be balanced against such biases.
Personally I cannot believe how cheap electronics goods, clothes, eating
out, etc. etc is right now.  Great deals are out there...

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Donald Snook
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:49 AM
To: 'Mercedes@okiebenz.com'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

Dave Walton wrote: "Once the economy starts rebounding and fuel goes over
$5/gallon,"

I sure hope you are wrong about that.  Plus, if gas/fuel goes to $5/gallon
won't that kill any economic growth that got the price there.  When the
price of fuel goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.  Nearly everything is dependent
on transportation costs and when the cost to transport doubles, I would
think that everything would have to go up as well.  Isn't that allegedly why
food prices are so much higher than they were a few years ago.  I am not an
economist, but this makes sense to me.

Donald H. Snook

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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 
91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 
85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, 
http://www.okiebenz.com



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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[Mitch Haley]

WILTON wrote:
OK, you got me.  'Didn't even notice the 500 part; 'just saw that 
familiar instrument cluster and a question about glow. 


I was joking about the glow, but not about the oil lamp. Didn't know what yellow 
lamps there are in a 124 or what that particular lamp is, but if it's oil or 
brakes, I think the driver is a fool.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[E M]

My downfall was always forgetting to turn the exam page over for the
questions on the other side. lol

That warning lamp might be for a "failed light bulb", but I'll have to peek
at the cluster tomorrow.  I think low window wash fluid is on that side too
?

Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 

> OK, you got me.  'Didn't even notice the 500 part; 'just saw that familiar
> instrument cluster and a question about glow.  That's what I get, again, for
> incomplete reading.  Like "they" used to (say - probably still do) in
> reference to quizzes, etc., "RTFQ."   ;<)
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "E M" 
>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.
>
>
>  Glow plugs on a 500 ?  hee hee
>>
>> Ed
>> 300E
>>
>> 2009/12/30 WILTON 
>>
>>  Glow is on the far right.
>>>
>>> Wilton
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
>>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  LarryT wrote:
>>>

  Here's a different E500 video -
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
> Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!
>
>
 Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?

 Mitch.


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>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[WILTON]

Same here.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Redghost" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides


The memory settings on the w124 work with the door open.   Were they  not 
to, I would be unable to enter, since SWMBA is quite petite and  sits 
nearly on top of the steering wheel.


clay



On Dec 30, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Max Dillon wrote:


Harry,

I don't think the power seats work with key on and door open.  I  think 
it's
either key on/door closed or key off and out and door open.  I may  be 
wrong
- never owned an S class and haven't really played around with my  124 
but I

do know that key off and door open will allow them to work.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com ]

On Behalf Of harry watkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:38 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on,  running, 
door

open and in or out of seat.

I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers 
1986

through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has
diagrams that seem to cover my problem.

I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the  fuse 
box,
but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.   However, 
FYI

this is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16
update.  (but soon will)

I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay  are
involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.

Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing  with 
an

electrical ignoramus.

Thanks
Harry

PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned
refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[WILTON]

OK, you got me.  'Didn't even notice the 500 part; 'just saw that familiar 
instrument cluster and a question about glow.  That's what I get, again, for 
incomplete reading.  Like "they" used to (say - probably still do) in 
reference to quizzes, etc., "RTFQ."   ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "E M" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



Glow plugs on a 500 ?  hee hee

Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 


Glow is on the far right.

Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



 LarryT wrote:



Here's a different E500 video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!



Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[Redghost]

The memory settings on the w124 work with the door open.   Were they  
not to, I would be unable to enter, since SWMBA is quite petite and  
sits nearly on top of the steering wheel.


clay



On Dec 30, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Max Dillon wrote:


Harry,

I don't think the power seats work with key on and door open.  I  
think it's
either key on/door closed or key off and out and door open.  I may  
be wrong
- never owned an S class and haven't really played around with my  
124 but I

do know that key off and door open will allow them to work.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
]

On Behalf Of harry watkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:38 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on,  
running, door

open and in or out of seat.

I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers  
1986

through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has
diagrams that seem to cover my problem.

I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the  
fuse box,
but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.   
However, FYI

this is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16
update.  (but soon will)

I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay  
are

involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.

Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing  
with an

electrical ignoramus.

Thanks
Harry

PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned
refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Redghost]

Yes, it is going down.  Much more down.  This is not some new age  
aberration, but will develop into much the same as we experienced from  
1930-1939.


As then, not everybody was fully employed, and those who were, became  
less so.  Ability to consume products will become a luxury, as it did  
for my parents.  No real need to have a huge TV, gourmet or junk  
foods, newest toys, keeping up with Mr. Smith or Jones.  It will be  
the battle to keep ones head above water and become far more frugal  
with the limited assets available to you.


There are many mall stores that will close down, flooding the job  
market with retail drones.  They are let go because not enough young  
people can get mom or dad to fund the fashion merry go round.  This  
leads to fewer drones able to frequent the mall, and even fewer people  
needed to man the halls of consumer excess.


No job will translate into losing the house, which floods the market  
with cheap housing that banks are underwater on.  Foreclosed homes,  
condo buildings and commercial space then sit empty and banks and  
owners go under.


My household income has dropped in the mid five figures because of  
this economy.  I expect to take at least that big a hit again in the  
next two to three years.  I still retain reasonable equity in  
property, but the flow just is not there anymore.  Renters are just  
too poor to afford homes and moving back with mom or grandma.


clay




On Dec 30, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Mountain Man wrote:


Max wrote:

I'm also worried that the
Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and  
we'll get

bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.


What industry is not in the dumps or going in to the dumps, these  
days?

There are numbers that are not even counted.
For instance: Am I unemployed?
No, but 10 months ago I was told to come in to the office 4 days each
week.  Next week I go in to the office 3 days each week.  One of the
salesman guys told how the entire corporation is working 4 days - CEO
on down the whole corporation.
Those numbers do not count in the unemployment numbers - but I bet
there are quite a few of us out there doing the same jazz.
This thing ain't done, by a long shot.  From the little bit of biz
radio I hear, we will go down some more.  Housing cannot be the hope
we all wait for.  But it drives all development, all production.  I
think a reshape of the economy would be nice - away from housing.
Military-Industrial-Complex anyone?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[E M]

Glow plugs on a 500 ?  hee hee

Ed
300E

2009/12/30 WILTON 

> Glow is on the far right.
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - From: "Mitch Haley" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.
>
>
>
>  LarryT wrote:
>>
>>> Here's a different E500 video -
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
>>> Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!
>>>
>>
>> Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Dwight E. Giles, Jr]

I hear you-I was sort of kidding-rally don't want to sell it and probably
won't. Of course it has MB tex not leather-but oddly it has heated seats
button. Bottom of the line model-all manual, no sunroof, no cruise but this
odd option n for 78. . Not sure if they work-pass side light comes on when I
use the switch on that side.  

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.  
1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.
Wickford, RI


-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mountain Man
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:09 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

Dwight wrote:
> Anybody want to buy a rare Bio D ready 240D 4 speed stick with dual
climate
> control, bullet proof wheels and heated leather seats for 5000 USD?

Yes, but...
Gotta eat.  No money like that around here.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[WILTON]

Glow is on the far right.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.



LarryT wrote:

Here's a different E500 video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!


Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[WILTON]

At least one GFCI in the garage, but remember, a refrigerator should NOT be 
plugged into a GFCI-protected receptacle, not even in the garage.  BTW, some 
motors, even when working properly, will trip a GFCI.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Mitch Haley" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?



Max Dillon wrote:


I think the NEC now requires them for bathrooms, kitchen, outside
receptacles, and garage.  I don't have them in garage, maybe I'll get a
two-pack and install in my garage.  Need to figure out which receptacle 
is

furthest upstream.



That sounds about right, but I hadn't heard of the garage part before. 20 
years ago it was bathroom and outdoor, we solved that by putting GFCIs in 
my parents' bathrooms and wiring the outside outlets to them.


I think GFCIs belong on switched outlets, because the suckers waste 
electricity.
Switch them off when not in use and you get rid of the phantom load and 
increase safety. (I'm not sure how the NEC regards switched outlets these 
days, but they used to be fairly common)


Too bad my microwave, which has no time of day based functions other than 
the clock display, gets highly upset whenever you cut the power and it 
doesn't know what time it is.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[Mitch Haley]

LarryT wrote:

Here's a different E500 video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!


Does the yellow light mean his glow plugs are on or he's low on oil?

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:


I think the NEC now requires them for bathrooms, kitchen, outside
receptacles, and garage.  I don't have them in garage, maybe I'll get a
two-pack and install in my garage.  Need to figure out which receptacle is
furthest upstream.



That sounds about right, but I hadn't heard of the garage part before. 20 years 
ago it was bathroom and outdoor, we solved that by putting GFCIs in my parents' 
bathrooms and wiring the outside outlets to them.


I think GFCIs belong on switched outlets, because the suckers waste electricity.
Switch them off when not in use and you get rid of the phantom load and increase 
safety. (I'm not sure how the NEC regards switched outlets these days, but they 
used to be fairly common)


Too bad my microwave, which has no time of day based functions other than the 
clock display, gets highly upset whenever you cut the power and it doesn't know 
what time it is.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[WILTON]

Power seats in both my 124 and 126 work exactly alike: they work with doors 
open and/or closed with key ON and only with door open with key OFF.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides



Harry,

I don't think the power seats work with key on and door open.  I think 
it's
either key on/door closed or key off and out and door open.  I may be 
wrong
- never owned an S class and haven't really played around with my 124 but 
I

do know that key off and door open will allow them to work.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of harry watkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:38 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on, running, door
open and in or out of seat.

I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers 1986
through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has
diagrams that seem to cover my problem.

I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the fuse 
box,

but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.  However, FYI
this is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16
update.  (but soon will)

I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay are
involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.

Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing with an
electrical ignoramus.

Thanks
Harry

PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned
refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[harry watkins]

Max, the SDL works as you stated, I was trying to make the point that I 
tried it in all situations.


Thanks
Harry

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides



Harry,

I don't think the power seats work with key on and door open.  I think 
it's
either key on/door closed or key off and out and door open.  I may be 
wrong
- never owned an S class and haven't really played around with my 124 but 
I

do know that key off and door open will allow them to work.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of harry watkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:38 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on, running, door
open and in or out of seat.

I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers 1986
through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has
diagrams that seem to cover my problem.

I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the fuse 
box,

but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.  However, FYI
this is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16
update.  (but soon will)

I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay are
involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.

Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing with an
electrical ignoramus.

Thanks
Harry

PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned
refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[Max Dillon]

Harry,

I don't think the power seats work with key on and door open.  I think it's
either key on/door closed or key off and out and door open.  I may be wrong
- never owned an S class and haven't really played around with my 124 but I
do know that key off and door open will allow them to work.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of harry watkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:38 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on, running, door
open and in or out of seat.

I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers 1986
through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has
diagrams that seem to cover my problem.

I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the fuse box,
but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.  However, FYI
this is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16
update.  (but soon will)

I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay are
involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.

Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing with an
electrical ignoramus. 

Thanks
Harry

PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned
refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Max Dillon]

I think you're right about the price rising as our economy improves, but I
think it is market forces not OPEC.  China is extremely self-interested in
keeping oil prices as low as possible and will deal with any country in
order to get good prices.  They are undermining the big companies who try to
at least appear to deal with dictators in a responsible way (Nigeria) and
damn the cost to the populations of those countries and the environmental
costs.

What we really need in this country is an energy policy that has low energy
prices as the goal, not the lining of special interest pockets.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of dave walton
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:32 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic
Price for this?

I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but the price of oil
is artificially controlled and is NOT a free market. We are paying
less for oil now because the people who supply it know what they can
charge for their product without causing our economy to crumble too
much. The price of oil will increase as our economy improves because
the suppliers will charge more. Simple put - our destiny is in their
hands.

-Dave Walton

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Max Dillon 
wrote:
> The money/economy talk show that I really enjoy (Money Talk with Bob
> Brinker) has had many conversations about inflation and what causes it,
and
> Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
> price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
> first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event
courtesy
> of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident,
but
> when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
> inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not
nearly
> as strong as it used to be.
>
> I think the more real risk is the populations reaction to rising fuel
costs
> and the impact that behavior has on the economy.  I'm also worried that
the
> Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and we'll get
> bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.
>
> Of course, the government keeps changing the definitions of inflation and
> unemployment in its favor to justify the policies of the party in power,
so
> I think that direct observation needs to be balanced against such biases.
> Personally I cannot believe how cheap electronics goods, clothes, eating
> out, etc. etc is right now.  Great deals are out there...
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Donald Snook
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: 'Mercedes@okiebenz.com'
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?
>
> Dave Walton wrote: "Once the economy starts rebounding and fuel goes over
> $5/gallon,"
>
> I sure hope you are wrong about that.  Plus, if gas/fuel goes to $5/gallon
> won't that kill any economic growth that got the price there.  When the
> price of fuel goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.  Nearly everything is dependent
> on transportation costs and when the cost to transport doubles, I would
> think that everything would have to go up as well.  Isn't that allegedly
why
> food prices are so much higher than they were a few years ago.  I am not
an
> economist, but this makes sense to me.
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[Max Dillon]

Ahh, thanks for that confirmation Wilton.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of WILTON
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:10 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

Oh, BTW, again.  GFCI receptacles should be tested once a month or so by 
pushing the test button provided by the manufacturer for exactly this 
purpose.  When the test button is pressed, the reset button should pop out 
and power should be removed from the receptacle itself and all other 
receptacles downstream from it on the same circuit.  If this does not 
happen, the receptacle is wired wrong or is defective internally.  I have 
also found GFCI receptacles that would not reset after being tested; 'also 
had some that would "shoot" the reset button across the room when tested. 
These should also be replaced, of course.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


> BTW, Lowes has GFCI receptacles for $16 and $31; GFCI breakers (for dist. 
> panel) for $61.
>
> Wilton
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "WILTON" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?
>
>
>>A GFCI "looks" for an imbalance of 5 milliamps or more between the hot and

>>neutral conductors of the circuit it protects.  A grounding conductor is 
>>not even needed for a GFCI to work properly and works very well on older 
>>circuits with no grounding conductor.  It measures the current going out 
>>to the "appliance" (motor, bulb, or whatever is in use on the circuit) on 
>>the hot side of the circuit and measures the current coming back to the 
>>GFCI on the neutral side of the circuit.  If the GFCI finds an imbalance 
>>of 5 milliamps or more between the two currents, it trips.  It "assumes" 
>>that the "missing" current is going off to the side through "somebody" - 
>>it's meant to protect PEOPLE from electrocution.  A GFCI receptacle 
>>provides this protection for itself and all other receptacles downstream 
>>from it on the same circuit.  GFCI breakers can also be installed in the 
>>distribution panel to protect entire circuits, but these beakers in the 
>>panel cost significantly more than GFCI receptacles.
>>
>> A regular circuit breaker is meant to protect against fire and trips 
>> under an over current condition such as a direct short to ground or when 
>> an "appliance" pulls too much current for the "size" (rating) of the 
>> breaker.
>>
>> Wilton
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Max Dillon" 
>> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:21 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?
>>
>>
>>> Yes, this particular GFCI receptacle is upstream of an outdoor 
>>> receptacle
>>> (or two, need to confirm the other one is also on that circuit), outdoor
>>> fan, and an outdoor security light, and also all the bathroom 
>>> receptacles in
>>> the house.
>>>
>>> Measuring ground is tricky if there is a high resistance short to ground
>>> somewhere.  On board ship we had a testing device commonly referred to 
>>> as a
>>> "Megger" which could be used to apply a high voltage to an isolated 
>>> circuit
>>> in order to test for high resistance shorts.
>>>
>>> I may try to make some measurements with my Fluke, but I'm pretty sure 
>>> the
>>> GFCI receptacle has probably died.  I may swap with a known good unit as

>>> a
>>> test.
>>>
>>> -Max
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
>>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:56 PM
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?
>>>
>>>
>>> So, the GFCI runs more than just its own outlet?
>>> The ground wire running to other stuff like the fan, can you read 
>>> voltage
>>> from
>>> that wire to either the hot or neutral?
>>> If not, then you probably don't have a ground fault and should try 
>>> replacing
>>> the
>>> GFCI.
>>>
>>> Mitch.
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>
>>
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>> T

Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[Max Dillon]

Yes, agree with all.  However, I've got one that trips for no apparent
reason but if I hit the reset repeatedly it will stay on after about 4 or 5
resets.  It will only stay on for a matter of minutes, maybe an hour or two.
I think it's bad, two other list brothers have confirmed that they can go
bad.

I think the NEC now requires them for bathrooms, kitchen, outside
receptacles, and garage.  I don't have them in garage, maybe I'll get a
two-pack and install in my garage.  Need to figure out which receptacle is
furthest upstream.

According to one website, there are also 'portable' GFCI devices, which you
can plug into an outlet and then plug in your drill or power saw or
extension cord.  Some extension cords also have a GFCI built in.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Craig McCluskey
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:43:25 -0500 "WILTON"  wrote:

> A GFCI "looks" for an imbalance of 5 milliamps or more between the hot
> and  neutral conductors of the circuit it protects.  A grounding
> conductor is not  even needed for a GFCI to work properly and works very
> well on older  circuits with no grounding conductor.  It measures the
> current going out to  the "appliance" (motor, bulb, or whatever is in
> use on the circuit) on the  hot side of the circuit and measures the
> current coming back to the GFCI on  the neutral side of the circuit.  If
> the GFCI finds an imbalance of 5  milliamps or more between the two
> currents, it trips.  It "assumes" that the  "missing" current is going
> off to the side through "somebody" - it's meant  to protect PEOPLE from
> electrocution.  A GFCI receptacle provides this  protection for itself
> and all other receptacles downstream from it on the  same circuit.  GFCI
> breakers can also be installed in the distribution panel  to protect
> entire circuits, but these beakers in the panel cost  significantly more
> than GFCI receptacles.
> 
> A regular circuit breaker is meant to protect against fire and trips
> under  an over current condition such as a direct short to ground or
> when an  "appliance" pulls too much current for the "size" (rating) of
> the breaker.

Spot on, Wilton!

The older part of our house was built in 1959 and has two-wire
receptacles. I put GFCIs in the bathrooms and they work just fine.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Max Dillon]

I don't want to hold gold, I just want to take advantage of asset
diversification and GLD tracks with the market price of gold close enough
for me.

If I wanted to hold gold, I'd purchase gold coins from someplace like
Switzerland, which recently had a markup of only 3% vs. market spot price.
However, purchasing gold coins or bars is too risky for me, don't want my
meager wealth to be portable and require a safe deposit box or some other
nonsense that adds to the cost of ownership, or worry about gold hidden
somewhere in the house while I'm gone on vacation or have to pack it up and
evacuate in the case of a hurricane.  

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic
Pricefor this?

Max Dillon wrote:

> I think we have a real bubble in gold prices right now due to this market
> fear of inflation and the weak dollar, wish I'd taken a small position a
few
> years ago when my father advised it.  Once this bubble pops, I'll put
about
> 5% of my very small portfolio into the gold index GLD.

GLD is an exchange traded fund, and not the best way to 'hold' gold.
There are other gold and silver funds that actually hold the metal and have 
audited reports of the serial numbers. Then all you have to worry about is 
whether the bars are gold or if the funds got stuck with counterfeits in the
vault.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Max Dillon]

I think it's a bubble.  If I had invested a small portion, let's say 5% of
my portfolio, and that portion was now 7% or more, I'd sell off the 'profit'
to get back to a 5% position.  Timing a bubble is tough, better to simply
rebalance once a year or two so that you sell high and buy low.  I'm not
going to buy now because everyone else seems to be, and following the crowd
is a great way to get burned.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of OK Don
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:31 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic
Pricefor this?

So, this is a good time to sell gold? I was also thinking it was a bubble,
but then, what do I know?

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Max Dillon
wrote:

> I think we have a real bubble in gold prices right now due to this market
> fear of inflation and the weak dollar, wish I'd taken a small position a
> few
> years ago when my father advised it.  Once this bubble pops, I'll put
about
> 5% of my very small portfolio into the gold index GLD.
>
> -Max
>



-- 
OK Don
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
others.
The Devil's Dictionary
Ambrose Bierce
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[dave walton]

I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but the price of oil
is artificially controlled and is NOT a free market. We are paying
less for oil now because the people who supply it know what they can
charge for their product without causing our economy to crumble too
much. The price of oil will increase as our economy improves because
the suppliers will charge more. Simple put - our destiny is in their
hands.

-Dave Walton

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Max Dillon  wrote:
> The money/economy talk show that I really enjoy (Money Talk with Bob
> Brinker) has had many conversations about inflation and what causes it, and
> Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
> price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
> first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event courtesy
> of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident, but
> when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
> inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not nearly
> as strong as it used to be.
>
> I think the more real risk is the populations reaction to rising fuel costs
> and the impact that behavior has on the economy.  I'm also worried that the
> Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and we'll get
> bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.
>
> Of course, the government keeps changing the definitions of inflation and
> unemployment in its favor to justify the policies of the party in power, so
> I think that direct observation needs to be balanced against such biases.
> Personally I cannot believe how cheap electronics goods, clothes, eating
> out, etc. etc is right now.  Great deals are out there...
>
> -Max
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Donald Snook
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:49 AM
> To: 'Mercedes@okiebenz.com'
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?
>
> Dave Walton wrote: "Once the economy starts rebounding and fuel goes over
> $5/gallon,"
>
> I sure hope you are wrong about that.  Plus, if gas/fuel goes to $5/gallon
> won't that kill any economic growth that got the price there.  When the
> price of fuel goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.  Nearly everything is dependent
> on transportation costs and when the cost to transport doubles, I would
> think that everything would have to go up as well.  Isn't that allegedly why
> food prices are so much higher than they were a few years ago.  I am not an
> economist, but this makes sense to me.
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[WILTON]

Oh, BTW, again.  GFCI receptacles should be tested once a month or so by 
pushing the test button provided by the manufacturer for exactly this 
purpose.  When the test button is pressed, the reset button should pop out 
and power should be removed from the receptacle itself and all other 
receptacles downstream from it on the same circuit.  If this does not 
happen, the receptacle is wired wrong or is defective internally.  I have 
also found GFCI receptacles that would not reset after being tested; 'also 
had some that would "shoot" the reset button across the room when tested. 
These should also be replaced, of course.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


BTW, Lowes has GFCI receptacles for $16 and $31; GFCI breakers (for dist. 
panel) for $61.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


A GFCI "looks" for an imbalance of 5 milliamps or more between the hot and 
neutral conductors of the circuit it protects.  A grounding conductor is 
not even needed for a GFCI to work properly and works very well on older 
circuits with no grounding conductor.  It measures the current going out 
to the "appliance" (motor, bulb, or whatever is in use on the circuit) on 
the hot side of the circuit and measures the current coming back to the 
GFCI on the neutral side of the circuit.  If the GFCI finds an imbalance 
of 5 milliamps or more between the two currents, it trips.  It "assumes" 
that the "missing" current is going off to the side through "somebody" - 
it's meant to protect PEOPLE from electrocution.  A GFCI receptacle 
provides this protection for itself and all other receptacles downstream 
from it on the same circuit.  GFCI breakers can also be installed in the 
distribution panel to protect entire circuits, but these beakers in the 
panel cost significantly more than GFCI receptacles.


A regular circuit breaker is meant to protect against fire and trips 
under an over current condition such as a direct short to ground or when 
an "appliance" pulls too much current for the "size" (rating) of the 
breaker.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


Yes, this particular GFCI receptacle is upstream of an outdoor 
receptacle

(or two, need to confirm the other one is also on that circuit), outdoor
fan, and an outdoor security light, and also all the bathroom 
receptacles in

the house.

Measuring ground is tricky if there is a high resistance short to ground
somewhere.  On board ship we had a testing device commonly referred to 
as a
"Megger" which could be used to apply a high voltage to an isolated 
circuit

in order to test for high resistance shorts.

I may try to make some measurements with my Fluke, but I'm pretty sure 
the
GFCI receptacle has probably died.  I may swap with a known good unit as 
a

test.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


So, the GFCI runs more than just its own outlet?
The ground wire running to other stuff like the fan, can you read 
voltage

from
that wire to either the hot or neutral?
If not, then you probably don't have a ground fault and should try 
replacing

the
GFCI.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Mountain Man]

Dwight wrote:
> Anybody want to buy a rare Bio D ready 240D 4 speed stick with dual climate
> control, bullet proof wheels and heated leather seats for 5000 USD?

Yes, but...
Gotta eat.  No money like that around here.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Mountain Man]

Max wrote:
> I'm also worried that the
> Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and we'll get
> bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.

What industry is not in the dumps or going in to the dumps, these days?
There are numbers that are not even counted.
For instance: Am I unemployed?
No, but 10 months ago I was told to come in to the office 4 days each
week.  Next week I go in to the office 3 days each week.  One of the
salesman guys told how the entire corporation is working 4 days - CEO
on down the whole corporation.
Those numbers do not count in the unemployment numbers - but I bet
there are quite a few of us out there doing the same jazz.
This thing ain't done, by a long shot.  From the little bit of biz
radio I hear, we will go down some more.  Housing cannot be the hope
we all wait for.  But it drives all development, all production.  I
think a reshape of the economy would be nice - away from housing.
Military-Industrial-Complex anyone?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Mountain Man]

LarryT wrote:
> I heard once that holding bars was tough since some unscrupulous people
> would melt them and take a little bit out of dilute them to 18k.

There was a story I read recently that said the bars today are made of tungsten.
So, India who made the last huge purchase from IMF perhaps has a stash
of tungsten.
An interesting concept.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[Craig McCluskey]

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:43:25 -0500 "WILTON"  wrote:

> A GFCI "looks" for an imbalance of 5 milliamps or more between the hot
> and  neutral conductors of the circuit it protects.  A grounding
> conductor is not  even needed for a GFCI to work properly and works very
> well on older  circuits with no grounding conductor.  It measures the
> current going out to  the "appliance" (motor, bulb, or whatever is in
> use on the circuit) on the  hot side of the circuit and measures the
> current coming back to the GFCI on  the neutral side of the circuit.  If
> the GFCI finds an imbalance of 5  milliamps or more between the two
> currents, it trips.  It "assumes" that the  "missing" current is going
> off to the side through "somebody" - it's meant  to protect PEOPLE from
> electrocution.  A GFCI receptacle provides this  protection for itself
> and all other receptacles downstream from it on the  same circuit.  GFCI
> breakers can also be installed in the distribution panel  to protect
> entire circuits, but these beakers in the panel cost  significantly more
> than GFCI receptacles.
> 
> A regular circuit breaker is meant to protect against fire and trips
> under  an over current condition such as a direct short to ground or
> when an  "appliance" pulls too much current for the "size" (rating) of
> the breaker.

Spot on, Wilton!

The older part of our house was built in 1959 and has two-wire
receptacles. I put GFCIs in the bathrooms and they work just fine.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[WILTON]

BTW, Lowes has GFCI receptacles for $16 and $31; GFCI breakers (for dist. 
panel) for $61.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


A GFCI "looks" for an imbalance of 5 milliamps or more between the hot and 
neutral conductors of the circuit it protects.  A grounding conductor is 
not even needed for a GFCI to work properly and works very well on older 
circuits with no grounding conductor.  It measures the current going out to 
the "appliance" (motor, bulb, or whatever is in use on the circuit) on the 
hot side of the circuit and measures the current coming back to the GFCI on 
the neutral side of the circuit.  If the GFCI finds an imbalance of 5 
milliamps or more between the two currents, it trips.  It "assumes" that 
the "missing" current is going off to the side through "somebody" - it's 
meant to protect PEOPLE from electrocution.  A GFCI receptacle provides 
this protection for itself and all other receptacles downstream from it on 
the same circuit.  GFCI breakers can also be installed in the distribution 
panel to protect entire circuits, but these beakers in the panel cost 
significantly more than GFCI receptacles.


A regular circuit breaker is meant to protect against fire and trips under 
an over current condition such as a direct short to ground or when an 
"appliance" pulls too much current for the "size" (rating) of the breaker.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?



Yes, this particular GFCI receptacle is upstream of an outdoor receptacle
(or two, need to confirm the other one is also on that circuit), outdoor
fan, and an outdoor security light, and also all the bathroom receptacles 
in

the house.

Measuring ground is tricky if there is a high resistance short to ground
somewhere.  On board ship we had a testing device commonly referred to as 
a
"Megger" which could be used to apply a high voltage to an isolated 
circuit

in order to test for high resistance shorts.

I may try to make some measurements with my Fluke, but I'm pretty sure 
the
GFCI receptacle has probably died.  I may swap with a known good unit as 
a

test.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


So, the GFCI runs more than just its own outlet?
The ground wire running to other stuff like the fan, can you read voltage
from
that wire to either the hot or neutral?
If not, then you probably don't have a ground fault and should try 
replacing

the
GFCI.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[WILTON]

A GFCI "looks" for an imbalance of 5 milliamps or more between the hot and 
neutral conductors of the circuit it protects.  A grounding conductor is not 
even needed for a GFCI to work properly and works very well on older 
circuits with no grounding conductor.  It measures the current going out to 
the "appliance" (motor, bulb, or whatever is in use on the circuit) on the 
hot side of the circuit and measures the current coming back to the GFCI on 
the neutral side of the circuit.  If the GFCI finds an imbalance of 5 
milliamps or more between the two currents, it trips.  It "assumes" that the 
"missing" current is going off to the side through "somebody" - it's meant 
to protect PEOPLE from electrocution.  A GFCI receptacle provides this 
protection for itself and all other receptacles downstream from it on the 
same circuit.  GFCI breakers can also be installed in the distribution panel 
to protect entire circuits, but these beakers in the panel cost 
significantly more than GFCI receptacles.


A regular circuit breaker is meant to protect against fire and trips under 
an over current condition such as a direct short to ground or when an 
"appliance" pulls too much current for the "size" (rating) of the breaker.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Dillon" 

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?



Yes, this particular GFCI receptacle is upstream of an outdoor receptacle
(or two, need to confirm the other one is also on that circuit), outdoor
fan, and an outdoor security light, and also all the bathroom receptacles 
in

the house.

Measuring ground is tricky if there is a high resistance short to ground
somewhere.  On board ship we had a testing device commonly referred to as 
a
"Megger" which could be used to apply a high voltage to an isolated 
circuit

in order to test for high resistance shorts.

I may try to make some measurements with my Fluke, but I'm pretty sure the
GFCI receptacle has probably died.  I may swap with a known good unit as a
test.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


So, the GFCI runs more than just its own outlet?
The ground wire running to other stuff like the fan, can you read voltage
from
that wire to either the hot or neutral?
If not, then you probably don't have a ground fault and should try 
replacing

the
GFCI.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Ethanol or not?

[Peter Frederick]

There are two sizes of M103 -- 2.6L and 3.0L, so I would guess one has smaller 
bores that the usual 102, and the other is the same for the 3.0L.  

Peter


-Original Message-
>From: Robert Bigham 
>Sent: Dec 30, 2009 2:05 PM
>To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ethanol or not?
>
>
>
>>   3. Ethanol or not? (Max Dillon)
>>   7. Re: E10 (relng...@aol.com)
>>   8. Re: Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not? (OK Don)
>>
>>--
>If they're advertising "No ethanol", I suppose it pretty nearly has to be 
>true. Salut!  
>
>New and newish pumps around here, including Exxon, all say "Contains 10% 
>Ethanol", sometimes they also say "by volume".
>
>Hendrik is correct that there are many 102 engines, and several compression 
>ratios.  The differences are in the pistons and the head.  102.980 is 
>European, British (UK), and most of rest of world, has pop-up pistons, and 
>does indeed have 9.0 to 1 compression, which I believe is as high as MBZ 
>attained on Engine 102.  Zoom zoom.  Other 102's I have seen have flat top or 
>similar two-level top pistons. 
>
>I believe the highest compression on any other 102 engine is 8.0 or 8.5 to 1 
>0n 102.961 and/or possibly 102.965. I think I could look it up if it were 
>vital to get it correct.
>
>Engine 103 is not just Engine 102 with two more cylinders.  102 has 2,399 cc 
>displacement = about 600 cc per cylinder.  Engine 103 has about 2,800 cc 
>displacement (they are rare around here, as is Engine 102) = about 467 cc per 
>cylinder.  Some 102 and 103 parts do interchange, so the difference may be in 
>part one of scale on the rotating assembly.  I think the timing components 
>interchange.  Don't bet the rent on that, though.  
>
>>--
>>Message: 3
>>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:18:59 -0500
>>From: "Max Dillon" 
>>Subject: [MBZ] Ethanol or not?
>>
>>FWIW, there is a station here in Charleston with a big sign proclaiming
>>ethanol-free gasoline is sold.  I think it is an Exxon station.  It is on
>>North Rivers Ave, near the intersection with Aviation Ave.
>>
>>- Max
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>>On Behalf Of Robert Bigham
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:14 PM
>>Subject: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?
>>
>>
>>My 1983 123.223 has 9.0 to 1 compression on 102.980 (Euro and Rest of World
>>Specification) engine.  Has Bosch CIS not CIS-E injection.  Marked on body
>>at fuel cap "BLEIFREI SUPER."  Book says use 93 RON (Research Octane?). For
>>a long time I ran 92 octane (R+M)/2.  Finally I said what the hey and tried
>>87 (R+M/2).  Timing set per book.  
>>
>>No problems whatsoever.  27 mpg on highway 80 mph and less.  20-22 mpg in
>>general driving mostly in town lots of starts and stops.  Top speed well
>>exceeds 105 mph indicated. I understand 120 mph indicated is close. I
>>haven't tried it. 
>>
>>FWIW I think the 102 engine may be a little technically advanced in design
>>compared to a 103.  Maybe not.  Has hemispherical combustion chambers, sohc
>>with long rocker arms, and I think canted valves.  I know my 102.980 hung
>>the moon in my book.  Zoom
>>zoom at all of you.  
>>
>>Yesterday a 123 (diesel?) that must have been going at least 90 mph on
>>Interstate 20 in Fort Worth came up behind me, passed, and continued off
>>into the distance.  Perhaps no Zoom zoom at him.
>>
>>And I'm pretty sure there's no pump gasoline now that doesn't contain 10%
>>ethanol, which ought to allow slightly higher compression, regardless of
>>octane rating. I know there doesn't seem to be any without ethanol around
>>here in Texas, and we make the stuff (gasoline,that is). Racing fuel has all
>>the goodies and OMG the price.  
>>
>>Blame the ethanol on others.  I doubt there are many real problems
>>associated with 10% ethanol and Benz 102 or 103 engines.
>>
>>>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:46:15 -0500
>>>From: "LarryT" 
Message: 14
>>>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:49:34 -0500

>>>You asked << fuel with ethanol in a '91 300E>>
>>>I think the question is moot - can you buy fuel *without* 10% E?
>>>
>>>LarryT
>>>91 300D
>>>
>>Message: 5
>>Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:01:17 +1030
>>From: Hendrik & Fay 
>>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?
>>
>>FAIK the 103 is the same as the 102 but has two more pistons and more 
>>get up and go.
>>Also compression in the 102 is not the same, UK motors have higher comp 
>>than the Oz models.
>>
>>Hendrik
>>
>>Robert Bigham wrote:
>>> My 1983 123.223 has 9.0 to 1 compression on 102.980 (Euro and Rest of World 
>>> Specification) engine.  Has Bosch CIS not CIS-E injection.  Marked on body 
>>> at fuel cap "BLEIFREI SUPER."  Book says use 93 RON (Research Octane?). For 
>>> a long time I ran 92 octane (R+M)/2.  Finally I said what the hey and tried 
>>> 87 (R+M/2).  Timing set per book.  
>>>
>>> No problems what

Re: [MBZ] Ethanol or not?

[Robert Bigham]

>   3. Ethanol or not? (Max Dillon)
>   7. Re: E10 (relng...@aol.com)
>   8. Re: Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not? (OK Don)
>
>--
If they're advertising "No ethanol", I suppose it pretty nearly has to be true. 
Salut!  

New and newish pumps around here, including Exxon, all say "Contains 10% 
Ethanol", sometimes they also say "by volume".

Hendrik is correct that there are many 102 engines, and several compression 
ratios.  The differences are in the pistons and the head.  102.980 is European, 
British (UK), and most of rest of world, has pop-up pistons, and does indeed 
have 9.0 to 1 compression, which I believe is as high as MBZ attained on Engine 
102.  Zoom zoom.  Other 102's I have seen have flat top or similar two-level 
top pistons. 

I believe the highest compression on any other 102 engine is 8.0 or 8.5 to 1 0n 
102.961 and/or possibly 102.965. I think I could look it up if it were vital to 
get it correct.

Engine 103 is not just Engine 102 with two more cylinders.  102 has 2,399 cc 
displacement = about 600 cc per cylinder.  Engine 103 has about 2,800 cc 
displacement (they are rare around here, as is Engine 102) = about 467 cc per 
cylinder.  Some 102 and 103 parts do interchange, so the difference may be in 
part one of scale on the rotating assembly.  I think the timing components 
interchange.  Don't bet the rent on that, though.  

>--
>Message: 3
>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:18:59 -0500
>From: "Max Dillon" 
>Subject: [MBZ] Ethanol or not?
>
>FWIW, there is a station here in Charleston with a big sign proclaiming
>ethanol-free gasoline is sold.  I think it is an Exxon station.  It is on
>North Rivers Ave, near the intersection with Aviation Ave.
>
>- Max
>
>-Original Message-
>From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>On Behalf Of Robert Bigham
>Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:14 PM
>Subject: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?
>
>
>My 1983 123.223 has 9.0 to 1 compression on 102.980 (Euro and Rest of World
>Specification) engine.  Has Bosch CIS not CIS-E injection.  Marked on body
>at fuel cap "BLEIFREI SUPER."  Book says use 93 RON (Research Octane?). For
>a long time I ran 92 octane (R+M)/2.  Finally I said what the hey and tried
>87 (R+M/2).  Timing set per book.  
>
>No problems whatsoever.  27 mpg on highway 80 mph and less.  20-22 mpg in
>general driving mostly in town lots of starts and stops.  Top speed well
>exceeds 105 mph indicated. I understand 120 mph indicated is close. I
>haven't tried it. 
>
>FWIW I think the 102 engine may be a little technically advanced in design
>compared to a 103.  Maybe not.  Has hemispherical combustion chambers, sohc
>with long rocker arms, and I think canted valves.  I know my 102.980 hung
>the moon in my book.  Zoom
>zoom at all of you.  
>
>Yesterday a 123 (diesel?) that must have been going at least 90 mph on
>Interstate 20 in Fort Worth came up behind me, passed, and continued off
>into the distance.  Perhaps no Zoom zoom at him.
>
>And I'm pretty sure there's no pump gasoline now that doesn't contain 10%
>ethanol, which ought to allow slightly higher compression, regardless of
>octane rating. I know there doesn't seem to be any without ethanol around
>here in Texas, and we make the stuff (gasoline,that is). Racing fuel has all
>the goodies and OMG the price.  
>
>Blame the ethanol on others.  I doubt there are many real problems
>associated with 10% ethanol and Benz 102 or 103 engines.
>
>>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:46:15 -0500
>>From: "LarryT" 
>>>Message: 14
>>Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:49:34 -0500
>>>
>>You asked << fuel with ethanol in a '91 300E>>
>>I think the question is moot - can you buy fuel *without* 10% E?
>>
>>LarryT
>>91 300D
>>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:01:17 +1030
>From: Hendrik & Fay 
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?
>
>FAIK the 103 is the same as the 102 but has two more pistons and more 
>get up and go.
>Also compression in the 102 is not the same, UK motors have higher comp 
>than the Oz models.
>
>Hendrik
>
>Robert Bigham wrote:
>> My 1983 123.223 has 9.0 to 1 compression on 102.980 (Euro and Rest of World 
>> Specification) engine.  Has Bosch CIS not CIS-E injection.  Marked on body 
>> at fuel cap "BLEIFREI SUPER."  Book says use 93 RON (Research Octane?). For 
>> a long time I ran 92 octane (R+M)/2.  Finally I said what the hey and tried 
>> 87 (R+M/2).  Timing set per book.  
>>
>> No problems whatsoever.  27 mpg on highway 80 mph and less.  20-22 mpg in 
>> general driving mostly in town lots of starts and stops.  Top speed well 
>> exceeds 105 mph indicated. I understand 120 mph indicated is close. I 
>> haven't tried it. 
>>
>> FWIW I think the 102 engine may be a little technically advanced in design 
>> compared to a 103.  Maybe not.  Has hemispherical combustion chambers, sohc 
>> with long roc

[MBZ] 86 SDL, no power seat adjustment, both sides

[harry watkins]

Where do I start?  I get nothing on either seat with key on, running, door open 
and in or out of seat.

I have (part of) an "Electrical Troubleshooting manual " that covers 1986 
through 1991.  Its missing a bunch of pages in the first part but has diagrams 
that seem to cover my problem.

I'm confused (no kidding) that the manual shows a relay "H" in the fuse box, 
but in that location in my fuse box there are two red fuses.  However, FYI this 
is one of the early models that did not have the external fuse 16 update.  (but 
soon will)

I see fuses a, b, 15 and 17 along with a diode and the mystery relay are 
involved.  I have replaced the fuses with no change.

Help if you can and please treat with kid gloves.  You are dealing with an 
electrical ignoramus. 

Thanks
Harry

PS:  This is an SDL that went away over two years ago and has returned refitted.
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[LarryT]

I heard once that holding bars was tough since some unscrupulous people 
would melt them and take a little bit out of dilute them to 18k.


I guess a assay would be needed to confirm it.  I have some coins which 
hopefully are easy to sell when the time comes?


LarryT
91 300D

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: "Mitch Haley" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:42 AM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More	Realistic 
Pricefor this?



Max Dillon wrote:


I think we have a real bubble in gold prices right now due to this market
fear of inflation and the weak dollar, wish I'd taken a small position a 
few
years ago when my father advised it.  Once this bubble pops, I'll put 
about

5% of my very small portfolio into the gold index GLD.


GLD is an exchange traded fund, and not the best way to 'hold' gold.
There are other gold and silver funds that actually hold the metal and 
have audited reports of the serial numbers. Then all you have to worry 
about is whether the bars are gold or if the funds got stuck with 
counterfeits in the vault.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Dwight E. Giles, Jr]

Well Fred -if you lived in RI you'd have another chance at portfolio
enhancement  at 11Pm tonight. Powerball. 
Dwight 

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.  
1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.
Wickford, RI


-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Frederick W Moir
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 12:39 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

Dwight.
I'd love to buy your car! Just let me check my portfolio, nope didn't 
win the lottery (again!).
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Irony is not far behind.

On 12/30/2009 10:06 AM, Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:
> Anybody want to buy a rare Bio D ready 240D 4 speed stick with dual
climate
> control, bullet proof wheels and heated leather seats for 5000 USD?
> Dwight
>
> Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
> 1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[LarryT]

Here's a different E500 video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXocPmZmMAI
Wish my 300D sounded like this E500!!

Are these 93/94 E500's the ones Porsche

LarryT
91 300D

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: "OK Don" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 9:17 PM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.


For the W124 fans -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ocRtKWYdo

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 4:35 PM, E M  wrote:


For all you W123 fans.  And if not a fan, the cute Aussie makes the video
ok
too. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsJiH0WqTBQ&feature=related

Ed
300E
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--
OK Don
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
others.
The Devil's Dictionary
Ambrose Bierce
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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Frederick W Moir]

Dwight.
I'd love to buy your car! Just let me check my portfolio, nope didn't 
win the lottery (again!).

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Irony is not far behind.

On 12/30/2009 10:06 AM, Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:

Anybody want to buy a rare Bio D ready 240D 4 speed stick with dual climate
control, bullet proof wheels and heated leather seats for 5000 USD?
Dwight

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.


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Re: [MBZ] Lapping IP nozzle

[LarryT]

Hi Phillip -
Sorry  --
I have a comprehensive list of automotive abbreviations - will try to find 
it -


MMs = Motor mount
CC = Cruise Control

LarryT
91 300D

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: "Fmiser" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 7:37 PM
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Lapping IP nozzle


LarryT wrote:



It finally got so bad (the MM's were bad)...



...drivers side MM one day...



Evidently the MM's had been bad the



With both new MMs it was 99% as quiet as a gas engine!


What's an MM?


I don't think it has ever had any surging - except when the CC
is engaged and I'm going downhill.


Or a CC?

It's tough to read when the only abbreviation is _the_ subject.

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?

[Curt Raymond]

Mikuni carbs used in snowmobiles use foam floats and I've actually only seen 
one that had an issue, it was cracked though... I think that carb had water 
that froze in the bowl...

-Curt

Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:30:32 -0600
From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Fuel for a 103 Vergasser engine? Ethanol or not?
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Nope. None.  None in 66 Ford, 76 plymy, the 380 SL, the 230TE, 
tractors made from the 40s to the 60s.  You do have to watch out for 
older small engines.  Something I had used a carb float made of 
styrofoam.  The enthanol melted that float until it sank.  The 
replacement I think was metal.  That was in the 70s.



>No issues with disolving seals, etc. in the fuel system?
>
>On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  10% blend worked fine in our 230TE  M103  Being a Euro tuned engine, I
>>  think it has higher compression than US models.
>>
>>
>>    What is the general thought on fuel with ethanol in a '91 300E?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  OK Don
>>>  CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
>>>  distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
>>>  others.
>>>  The Devil's Dictionary
>>>  Ambrose Bierce


  
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Mitch Haley]

Max Dillon wrote:


I think we have a real bubble in gold prices right now due to this market
fear of inflation and the weak dollar, wish I'd taken a small position a few
years ago when my father advised it.  Once this bubble pops, I'll put about
5% of my very small portfolio into the gold index GLD.


GLD is an exchange traded fund, and not the best way to 'hold' gold.
There are other gold and silver funds that actually hold the metal and have 
audited reports of the serial numbers. Then all you have to worry about is 
whether the bars are gold or if the funds got stuck with counterfeits in the vault.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[OK Don]

So, this is a good time to sell gold? I was also thinking it was a bubble,
but then, what do I know?

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Max Dillon wrote:

> I think we have a real bubble in gold prices right now due to this market
> fear of inflation and the weak dollar, wish I'd taken a small position a
> few
> years ago when my father advised it.  Once this bubble pops, I'll put about
> 5% of my very small portfolio into the gold index GLD.
>
> -Max
>



-- 
OK Don
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
others.
The Devil's Dictionary
Ambrose Bierce
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Max Dillon]

Bob hit on both, core CPI and the "total" CPI.  Many retiree's call in and
do everything but call him a fool, moaning and groaning about how high
prices are getting, but he sticks to his guns (numbers) and then he gets a
couple callers that are really anal about tracking their true out-of-pocket
food costs and they confirm Bob's position.  Unfortunately, market
psychology can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy; if many believe the
economy will tank due to high inflation and so they stop buying or otherwise
change their behavior, then the market will tank and maybe take the economy
with it!

I think we have a real bubble in gold prices right now due to this market
fear of inflation and the weak dollar, wish I'd taken a small position a few
years ago when my father advised it.  Once this bubble pops, I'll put about
5% of my very small portfolio into the gold index GLD.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Rick Knoble
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:00 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic
Pricefor this?

From: "Max Dillon" 


> Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
> price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
> first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event 
> courtesy
> of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident, 
> but
> when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
> inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not 
> nearly
> as strong as it used to be.

The Core CPI does not include the costs of food or fuel.
The CPI does. It depends what you are looking at. Perhaps this is what he 
was referring to

Rick

"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value  zero." - 
Voltaire 


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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Mitch Haley]

Rick Knoble wrote:


The Core CPI does not include the costs of food or fuel.
The CPI does. It depends what you are looking at. Perhaps this is what 
he was referring to


He was probably referring to the amazing amount of dishonesty in the 
computations which started when LBJ would refuse to release any CPI numbers he 
didn't like. Can you imagine a President telling the statisticians that 'Your 
number is wrong, fix it' until they came up with what he wanted? And it's only 
gotten worse since then.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Allan Streib]

Here's a newer one for even more money... this guy is way over the Edmunds 
"dealer retail" price not to mention the private party.

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1521876976.html


Allan


On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:29 -0600, "OK Don"  wrote:
> If it's been maintained as well as it looks, it;s worth that. If the
> suspension needs to be rebuilt, all the rubber mounts replaced, new flex
> disks, etc., then I'd knock 2-3k off the price.
> 
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Dwight E. Giles, Jr
> wrote:
> 
> > Agreed-I paid more than that for mine 4 years ago-I bought it from a friend
> > and had worked on it so I knew the car. . I realize many on the list would
> > scoff at that, but it had 129K miles and has perfect body and interior. And
> > now 50K+ miles later, I wouldn’t sell it for what I paid for it.
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> > CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
> > distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
> > others.
> > The Devil's Dictionary
> > Ambrose Bierce
> >
> >
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Pricefor this?

[Rick Knoble]

From: "Max Dillon" 



Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event 
courtesy
of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident, 
but

when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not 
nearly

as strong as it used to be.


The Core CPI does not include the costs of food or fuel.
The CPI does. It depends what you are looking at. Perhaps this is what he 
was referring to


Rick

"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value  zero." - 
Voltaire 



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[MBZ] OT: inflation vs. fuel -- was What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Max Dillon]

The money/economy talk show that I really enjoy (Money Talk with Bob
Brinker) has had many conversations about inflation and what causes it, and
Bob says that the data does not support the linkage between CPI (consumer
price index) inflation and rising fuel costs.  Back in the 70's during the
first "energy crisis" which was really a blackmail/extortion event courtesy
of OPEC, the linkage between fuel costs and food etc. was very evident, but
when our fuel costs skyrocketed a couple years ago the small amount of
inflation we did have indicated that the fuel/CPI correlation was not nearly
as strong as it used to be.

I think the more real risk is the populations reaction to rising fuel costs
and the impact that behavior has on the economy.  I'm also worried that the
Fed will not shut-off the flow of easy money quickly enough and we'll get
bad inflation when the economy does pick up again.

Of course, the government keeps changing the definitions of inflation and
unemployment in its favor to justify the policies of the party in power, so
I think that direct observation needs to be balanced against such biases.
Personally I cannot believe how cheap electronics goods, clothes, eating
out, etc. etc is right now.  Great deals are out there...

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Donald Snook
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:49 AM
To: 'Mercedes@okiebenz.com'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

Dave Walton wrote: "Once the economy starts rebounding and fuel goes over
$5/gallon,"

I sure hope you are wrong about that.  Plus, if gas/fuel goes to $5/gallon
won't that kill any economic growth that got the price there.  When the
price of fuel goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.  Nearly everything is dependent
on transportation costs and when the cost to transport doubles, I would
think that everything would have to go up as well.  Isn't that allegedly why
food prices are so much higher than they were a few years ago.  I am not an
economist, but this makes sense to me.

Donald H. Snook

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Re: [MBZ] Leno's tribute to Rendezvous

[Mitch Haley]

What's up with that SLS63? Why doesn't the fuel cut out or at least cut down 
when you lift throttle? Unburned fuel "Wa-kracklekracklepop-waa"


Carrol Shelby used to take on a Texas peace officer for ballast when he wanted 
to go for a joy ride in a 427 or a Daytona Coupe. Apparently cops can ticket 
proof a car even if they aren't driving.


I suppose "Hi, I'm Jay Leno and you just won a dozen front row tickets to be in 
my studio audience" would probably work too.



Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[OK Don]

If it's been maintained as well as it looks, it;s worth that. If the
suspension needs to be rebuilt, all the rubber mounts replaced, new flex
disks, etc., then I'd knock 2-3k off the price.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Dwight E. Giles, Jr wrote:

> Agreed-I paid more than that for mine 4 years ago-I bought it from a friend
> and had worked on it so I knew the car. . I realize many on the list would
> scoff at that, but it had 129K miles and has perfect body and interior. And
> now 50K+ miles later, I wouldn’t sell it for what I paid for it.
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
> distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
> others.
> The Devil's Dictionary
> Ambrose Bierce
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Dwight E. Giles, Jr]

Agreed-I paid more than that for mine 4 years ago-I bought it from a friend
and had worked on it so I knew the car. . I realize many on the list would
scoff at that, but it had 129K miles and has perfect body and interior. And
now 50K+ miles later, I wouldn’t sell it for what I paid for it.

Anybody want to buy a rare Bio D ready 240D 4 speed stick with dual climate
control, bullet proof wheels and heated leather seats for 5000 USD? 
Dwight 

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
1978 240D 4 speed. 218K + miles.  
1990 300D 2.5t 170K miles.
Wickford, RI


-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Donald Snook
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:49 AM
To: 'Mercedes@okiebenz.com'
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

Bob R. provided the following link and wrote:
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/1528421898.html

"I've kinda lost track of what is realistic these days"

That does seem a little high.  But, these are highly desirable cars.  The
people who have them really love them and most of them hang onto them -
unless they are dumb and sell them like I did.  It is a really nice car.  I
would like to have one of these again and this has lower mileage than the
one I sold.

Donald H. Snook

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Re: [MBZ] for you W123 fans.

[WILTON]

My thought, too.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "andrew strasfogel" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] for you W123 fans.


Too bad it's a lowly W123 280E in the clip and not a real car (e.g., a 
300D,

CD, or TD).  Then she'd have something REALLY great to brag on.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:35 PM, E M  wrote:


For all you W123 fans.  And if not a fan, the cute Aussie makes the video
ok
too. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsJiH0WqTBQ&feature=related

Ed
300E
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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Donald Snook]

Dave Walton wrote: "Once the economy starts rebounding and fuel goes over 
$5/gallon,"

I sure hope you are wrong about that.  Plus, if gas/fuel goes to $5/gallon 
won't that kill any economic growth that got the price there.  When the price 
of fuel goes up, EVERYTHING goes up.  Nearly everything is dependent on 
transportation costs and when the cost to transport doubles, I would think that 
everything would have to go up as well.  Isn't that allegedly why food prices 
are so much higher than they were a few years ago.  I am not an economist, but 
this makes sense to me.

Donald H. Snook

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Re: [MBZ] What is a More Realistic Price for this?

[Donald Snook]

Bob R. provided the following link and wrote:
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/1528421898.html

"I've kinda lost track of what is realistic these days"

That does seem a little high.  But, these are highly desirable cars.  The 
people who have them really love them and most of them hang onto them - unless 
they are dumb and sell them like I did.  It is a really nice car.  I would like 
to have one of these again and this has lower mileage than the one I sold.

Donald H. Snook

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[MBZ] Leno's tribute to Rendezvous

[L Mark Finch]

There's a video of Jay Leno zooming around L.A. in a new AMG gullwing at
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/29/video-jay-leno-recreates-cetait-un-rendez-vous-on-las/.
After watching that I felt compelled to go look at the original, and
in
the process discovered that it was filmed in a 450SEL
6.9 with
Ferrari sound effects dubbed in later. A link to the original movie and a
"making of" companion (in French) may be found at
http://donnemoiducine.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/cetait-un-rendez-vous-de-claude-lelouch-1976/.
If you haven't seen it before (or even if you have), C’était
un rendez-vous is a fun way to burn nine minutes.

--mf
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Re: [MBZ] OT, photoshop help

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I got it figured out last night.  I figured I had to do all that, but 
could not figure out how to "cut out" the center without manually 
drawing it, which would be no good.  I discovered this "magic wand" tool 
and it drew the whole thing for me and I was then able to cut it out.  
Works great now.


Peter Frederick wrote:

Kaleb:

You need to make the overlay in a separate layer.  You can either 
leave the center empty, or just draw your oval and make it 
transparent, so that when you add this layer to a photograph, the 
photograph will "show through" the transparent part and be hidden 
under whatever your overlay is.


You can also make a gradient at the edge so that the photo fades into 
the overlay if you wish.


Peter

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2593 - Release Date: 12/29/09 13:14:00


  


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 
91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 
85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, 
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[Mitch Haley]

Mitch Haley wrote:


I think this is the movie, I was surprised to see there are four of them:
http://www.amazon.com/Luc-Bessons-Taxi-Two-All-region/dp/B000NAJC7Y


Found the set on fleabay for under $30, original french with english subtitles.
http://search.ebay.com/360221920072
Maybe somebody could buy it and pass it around this winter?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] W124 fans, was: for you W123 fans.

[Mitch Haley]

OK Don wrote:

For the W124 fans -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ocRtKWYdo


It took me a while to notice that the white 500E was actually a Pug-O.

I think this is the movie, I was surprised to see there are four of them:
http://www.amazon.com/Luc-Bessons-Taxi-Two-All-region/dp/B000NAJC7Y

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Hirschmann Antenna for Parts

[Tim C.]

Craig,

Still got it?  I can PayPal or mail you a check, address is 
Tim Crone
106 Pinecrest Rd
Durham NC 27705

Thanks either way, happy new year! :)
-Tim

> --- Original Message ---
> From: Craig McCluskey 
> To: mercedes 
> Sent: 29-Dec-09, 15:53:18
> Subject: [MBZ] Hirschmann Antenna for Parts
> 
> Non-functional antenna from our '82 240D for parts.
> 
> Type Auta 6000 U 485
> 
> Anyone interested for the cost of shipping?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?

[Max Dillon]

Yes, this particular GFCI receptacle is upstream of an outdoor receptacle
(or two, need to confirm the other one is also on that circuit), outdoor
fan, and an outdoor security light, and also all the bathroom receptacles in
the house.

Measuring ground is tricky if there is a high resistance short to ground
somewhere.  On board ship we had a testing device commonly referred to as a
"Megger" which could be used to apply a high voltage to an isolated circuit
in order to test for high resistance shorts.  

I may try to make some measurements with my Fluke, but I'm pretty sure the
GFCI receptacle has probably died.  I may swap with a known good unit as a
test.

-Max

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Mitch Haley
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Do GFCI receptacles go bad?


So, the GFCI runs more than just its own outlet?
The ground wire running to other stuff like the fan, can you read voltage
from 
that wire to either the hot or neutral?
If not, then you probably don't have a ground fault and should try replacing
the 
GFCI.

Mitch.

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