Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Yes that is the historical record.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 8:34 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I read somewhere that the Spanish Flu originated in Kansas ... Spain was
> neutral at the time, so published news about the flu which warring
> countries did not for moral reasons, and others.
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 6:53 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >  Which was interesting because referring to pandemics by their country of
> > origin is very common, witness the Spanish Flu of 1918...
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 7:01:35 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >  Political science, AKA backlash against idiots claiming it was racist to
> > call it anything indicating its Chinese origins.
> > Mitch.
> >
> > On Tue, June 16, 2020 5:55 pm, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
> > > This is helpful
> > > Is there a scientific reason why you refer to it as Wuhan Red Death?
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Hypotheses have the origin being Kansas, East Asia (China) or Europe (France).

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/
 


-D

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 8:34 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I read somewhere that the Spanish Flu originated in Kansas ... Spain was
> neutral at the time, so published news about the flu which warring
> countries did not for moral reasons, and others.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 6:53 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Which was interesting because referring to pandemics by their country of
>> origin is very common, witness the Spanish Flu of 1918...
>> -Curt
>> 
>>On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 7:01:35 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Political science, AKA backlash against idiots claiming it was racist to
>> call it anything indicating its Chinese origins.
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> On Tue, June 16, 2020 5:55 pm, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
>>> This is helpful
>>> Is there a scientific reason why you refer to it as Wuhan Red Death?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Understand that the desire to document firearm injuries isn’t a “stand alone” 
research desire of the CDC, and never has been.

The CDC has a separate research arm called the “Injury Center” that has been 
around for decades. It’s focus is on prevention of injury and violence, focused 
on drug abuse (overdoses), suicide prevention and what is known as “ACEs”, or 
adverse childhood experiences such as violence, abuse or neglect. They provide 
a reporting system for public health known as “WISQARS” that has been used for 
many years as a trusted source of the leading causes of death in our country 
for research, the media and even insurance companies. This research includes 
data on deaths from firearms.

The CDC has never “agitated” for research on firearm injuries. It’s been doing 
it for decades.

When the Dickey Amendment was passed in 1997, the CDC’s funding for firearms 
research was cut by the amount of funding from the CDC’s budget that had been 
used in prior years for such research. Understand that the Dickey Amendment did 
not prevent the CDC from conducting firearms research, it prevented it from 
conducting any research that would “advocate or promote gun control”.

The CDC still collects data on firearm deaths, but they do not conduct public 
health research on the effects of firearms on our society. They have a very 
limited discretionary budget to dedicate to firearm violence research and 
prevention. What this really filters down to is preventing the CDC from 
conducting research that could lead to an understanding of the issues of gun 
violence and how to reduce the rate of firearm related injuries and deaths.

Comprehensive research on firearm related injuries could answer a lot of 
questions as to how to motivate people to store guns safely, how to promote or 
teach gun safety, etc.

Just like seat belts, ABS and airbags, all of which were the products of 
research on deaths related to automobile accidents and resulted in fewer 
deaths, research related to firearm injuries could provide much the same means 
of interventions. Public health is not about reducing risk, it’s about making 
things safer. Think reduced tobacco use, bike helmets, fences around pools. 
These don’t eliminate hazards, they make them safer.

Interestingly enough, Dickey co-wrote an op-ed piece in the Washington Post in 
2015 that his actions were wrong. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/time-for-collaboration-on-gun-research/2015/12/25/f989cd1a-a819-11e5-bff5-905b92f5f94b_story.html
 


-D


> On Jun 16, 2020, at 5:32 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> << How this epidemic could be unfolding as it has under the CDC's nose in its 
> own backyard is a huge black eye for the organization and I would argue for 
> the country.>>
> 
> Yes!
> 
> What I saw was that the CDC accepted the authority and lead of the WHO, and 
> the WHO was in the pocket of the CCP. That was one of the problems.
> 
> A second problem is that the CDC had become politicized. A few years back 
> some in the CDC were agitating to get involved in research on firearms 
> injuries. Prioritizing an issue that has nothing to do with virology is an 
> indication to me that they were losing their direction, much in the same way 
> that a mayor concentrating on climate change may lose sight of controlling 
> crime.
> 
> A third problem is the media reporting that makes it difficult to have good 
> data. Here I mean information and emphasis presented in the mainstream media. 
> I was watching carefully, and it looked to me like POTUS followed the advice 
> of Fauci and Birx quite closely, but that such advice was not always good 
> advice. But many reports in the media gave the impression that he did not.
> 
> Ultimately, the US response should not be measured against losses in war, but 
> against real-world results in other advanced countries. We should have done 
> better, but we were far from the worst.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Karl 
> Wittnebel via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:03 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Cc: Karl Wittnebel
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study
> 
> Agreed about Iceland, in some sense. In general I am not a fan of such
> comparisons, but actually their per capita international travel exposure is
> far higher than ours. They had a lot of separate introductions of the
> virus, and they were travelers from many countries. The useful bit of the
> comparison is as a model of what a public health response should look like.
> Let the health department solve communicable public health problems. For
> more details of their experience, see:
> 
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/08/how-iceland-beat-the-coronavirus
> 
> The problem with the CDC is 

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I read somewhere that the Spanish Flu originated in Kansas ... Spain was
neutral at the time, so published news about the flu which warring
countries did not for moral reasons, and others.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 6:53 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  Which was interesting because referring to pandemics by their country of
> origin is very common, witness the Spanish Flu of 1918...
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 7:01:35 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>  Political science, AKA backlash against idiots claiming it was racist to
> call it anything indicating its Chinese origins.
> Mitch.
>
> On Tue, June 16, 2020 5:55 pm, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
> > This is helpful
> > Is there a scientific reason why you refer to it as Wuhan Red Death?
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT New Treatment for Wuhan Red Death

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Unfortunately, it's not a vaccine or cure.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 8:02 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This is the stuff they give for bad poison ivy.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Meade Dillon via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 4:26 PM
> To: Mercedes 
> Cc: Meade Dillon 
> Subject: [MBZ] OT New Treatment for Wuhan Red Death
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281
>
> Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug
>
> A cheap and widely available drug can help save the lives of patients
> seriously ill with coronavirus.
>
> The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the
> fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.
>
> The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments
>  to see if they also work for coronavirus.
>
> It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those
> on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT New Treatment for Wuhan Red Death

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

This is the stuff they give for bad poison ivy.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 4:26 PM
To: Mercedes 
Cc: Meade Dillon 
Subject: [MBZ] OT New Treatment for Wuhan Red Death

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281

Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug

A cheap and widely available drug can help save the lives of patients
seriously ill with coronavirus.

The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the
fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments
 to see if they also work for coronavirus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those
on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.
-
Max
Charleston SC
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Coronavirus is far from over. But you are right - there will always be
another epidemic. This is a good reason to invest in public health capacity
- it comes in handy for subsequent outbreaks.

A lot of this response has been driven by the novel nature of the disease.
The outbreak is still evolving. The shutdown definitely slowed the disease
down and gave us more time to deal with the outbreak. As we develop more
familiarity with the disease our responses will be more nuanced and fact
based rather than panic based.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 2:42 PM Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Some asked a question earlier in this thread about how the Wuhan Red Death
> compares to past pandemics.  Earlier I had looked at numbers from past
> epidemics, and I was struck by the pattern that these tend to occur about
> every ten years, especially in recent history.
>
> Asian Flu, 1957-58.  116,000 US deaths, US population was ~172 million
>
> Hong Kong Flu, 1968, 100,000 US deaths, population was ~201 million
>
> Avian Flu, 1997, isolated to Hong Kong with 18 deaths
>
> SARS, 2003, world wide only ~8000 were infected and ~780 died.
>
> H1N1 swine flu, 2009-10, 12,469 US deaths, population was ~309 million
>
> MERS, Outbreak in 2012, total to date of 2494 cases, 858 deaths, mostly in
> Saudi Arabia and Korea.
>
> WRD outbreak, 2020, 119,000 US deaths so far, population is ~331 million
>
> So far, the Asian Flu of '57-'58 and the Hong Kong Flu of '68 killed a
> higher percentage of our population than the current WRD virus.  We did not
> lock down our economy and suffer a recession back then, something to
> remember the next time one of these comes around.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Which was interesting because referring to pandemics by their country of 
origin is very common, witness the Spanish Flu of 1918...
-Curt

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 7:01:35 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Political science, AKA backlash against idiots claiming it was racist to
call it anything indicating its Chinese origins.
Mitch.

On Tue, June 16, 2020 5:55 pm, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
> This is helpful
> Is there a scientific reason why you refer to it as Wuhan Red Death?



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Political science, AKA backlash against idiots claiming it was racist to
call it anything indicating its Chinese origins.
Mitch.

On Tue, June 16, 2020 5:55 pm, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
> This is helpful
> Is there a scientific reason why you refer to it as Wuhan Red Death?



___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] Happy 220D engine day

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

I was hoping that my 240D would be back today on 240D engine day, so I guess I 
will be waiting a little longer.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Excellent tribute. Happy 240D day tiday.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 5:49 PM MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> We are driving our OM617 down to Orlando on 6/17. That
>> is a 240 mile round trip. Not a very large distance but
>> it will get it out to stretch it's legs.
>> 
>> MG
>> 
>> Kevin Kraly via Mercedes wrote:
>>> May your OM615 run well on this 6/15!
>>> Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
>>> 2019 Sprinter 12 passenger 144WB 875 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der
>> DoodleWagen
>>> 1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard with a low mileage engine, no new news
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

This is helpful
 Is there a scientific reason why you refer to it as Wuhan Red Death?

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 5:04 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Agreed about Iceland, in some sense. In general I am not a fan of such
> comparisons, but actually their per capita international travel exposure is
> far higher than ours. They had a lot of separate introductions of the
> virus, and they were travelers from many countries. The useful bit of the
> comparison is as a model of what a public health response should look like.
> Let the health department solve communicable public health problems. For
> more details of their experience, see:
>
>
> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/08/how-iceland-beat-the-coronavirus
>
> The problem with the CDC is that they were not allowed to play their normal
> role in either the public facing side of this or in the response. They
> normally tell the administration what to say, rather than vice versa. Had
> they been in control the response would have been far more classic "ramp up
> the testing". True they messed up testing assay selection in the beginning,
> but they should have moved immediately to a back up plan for increasing the
> testing and this was not done. We can speculate about why this failure to
> increase testing occurred, but I would submit that it was not because a
> bunch of people at the CDC who basically live for epidemic response
> suddenly decided it was not necessary.
>
> As mentioned, neither De Blasio nor Cuomo listened to the NYC health
> department, who were telling them for over three weeks that they should be
> closing schools etc. before NYC did so. Finally when deblasio agreed to
> close schools, Cuomo stated he had no authority to do so because new jersey
> and CT needed to be involved as well and only the state can coordinate
> that. So they got into a pissing match after delaying longer than they
> should have. The results were clear. The lesson should be: listen to your
> technocrats and do what they tell you to do.
>
> There will always be disagreements about why things happen but this is how
> I see it. The CDC is world renowned or has been. It has played huge roles
> in outbreak investigation and control around the world for decades. How
> this epidemic could be unfolding as it has under the CDC's nose in its own
> backyard is a huge black eye for the organization and I would argue for the
> country. It is sad state of affairs. For whatever reason they have not been
> able to lead a world-class response to something that is their bread and
> butter.
>
> Happy to contribute whatever I can in terms of practical steps.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 10:57 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Karl,
> >
> > Thank you for your thoughtful and extensive reply.  The
> personal-protection
> > guidance (masks, groups, outdoors vs indoors, etc.) is particularly
> useful.
> > I agree that we need a much better National response for the day a truly
> > evil bug comes along.
> >
> > I don't think the Iceland experience is comparable to the US; Iceland is
> a
> > remote island with little international travel and a population smaller
> > than
> > Bakersfield, CA.
> >
> > I find it hard to reconcile the NYC COVID experience and preparedness
> with
> > a world-class health department.
> >
> > Finally, being retired and having a smart phone, I watched the daily
> > briefings from the COVID Task Force and Cuomo, at least until they became
> > redundant.  My recollection of the CDC doctors' role is quite different
> > from
> > your description.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >  -Original Message-
> >  From: Karl Wittnebel
> >  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM
> >
> > At their root level, public health crises driven by highly infectious
> > diseases are a national problem. The response alwys needs to be carried
> out
> > by state and local entities, but particularly when dealing with a novel
> > pathogen, allowing the best scientific and public health experts to drive
> > the response is critical. That is what Iceland did. The public health
> > department drove the entire thing. Politicians were not involved at all
> in
> > telling them what to do or how to do it. There will always be political
> > ramifications from any action, but those cut both ways and if the
> > politicians drive it and get things wrong, they pay the price. So I would
> > argue it is best to just rely on the public health experts and let them
> > take
> > any heat. Best for the politicians and best for the country in terms of
> > disease control.
> >
> > Anyway State departments of health are highly variable in their resources
> > and levels of expertise and will therefore depend to varying levels on
> > national resources and guidance for their reponse plans and policies. New
> > York City is a world class health department on its own, for instance.
> > Their politicians chose 

Re: [MBZ] Happy 220D engine day

[MG via Mercedes]

We are driving our OM617 down to Orlando on 6/17. That 
is a 240 mile round trip. Not a very large distance but 
it will get it out to stretch it's legs.


MG

Kevin Kraly via Mercedes wrote:

May your OM615 run well on this 6/15!
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
2019 Sprinter 12 passenger 144WB 875 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der 
DoodleWagen
1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard with a low mileage engine, no new news 


Sent from my iPhone
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com




___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] Happy 220D engine day

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Excellent tribute. Happy 240D day tiday.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 5:49 PM MG via Mercedes  wrote:

> We are driving our OM617 down to Orlando on 6/17. That
> is a 240 mile round trip. Not a very large distance but
> it will get it out to stretch it's legs.
>
> MG
>
> Kevin Kraly via Mercedes wrote:
> > May your OM615 run well on this 6/15!
> > Kevin in Hillsboro, OR
> > 2019 Sprinter 12 passenger 144WB 875 miles, Low Mileage Lutgard AKA Der
> DoodleWagen
> > 1982 240D, High Mileage Hildegard with a low mileage engine, no new news
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Some asked a question earlier in this thread about how the Wuhan Red Death
compares to past pandemics.  Earlier I had looked at numbers from past
epidemics, and I was struck by the pattern that these tend to occur about
every ten years, especially in recent history.

Asian Flu, 1957-58.  116,000 US deaths, US population was ~172 million

Hong Kong Flu, 1968, 100,000 US deaths, population was ~201 million

Avian Flu, 1997, isolated to Hong Kong with 18 deaths

SARS, 2003, world wide only ~8000 were infected and ~780 died.

H1N1 swine flu, 2009-10, 12,469 US deaths, population was ~309 million

MERS, Outbreak in 2012, total to date of 2494 cases, 858 deaths, mostly in
Saudi Arabia and Korea.

WRD outbreak, 2020, 119,000 US deaths so far, population is ~331 million

So far, the Asian Flu of '57-'58 and the Hong Kong Flu of '68 killed a
higher percentage of our population than the current WRD virus.  We did not
lock down our economy and suffer a recession back then, something to
remember the next time one of these comes around.
-
Max
Charleston SC
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

[MBZ] ***SPAM*** RE: OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

<< How this epidemic could be unfolding as it has under the CDC's nose in its 
own backyard is a huge black eye for the organization and I would argue for the 
country.>>

Yes!

What I saw was that the CDC accepted the authority and lead of the WHO, and the 
WHO was in the pocket of the CCP. That was one of the problems.

A second problem is that the CDC had become politicized. A few years back some 
in the CDC were agitating to get involved in research on firearms injuries. 
Prioritizing an issue that has nothing to do with virology is an indication to 
me that they were losing their direction, much in the same way that a mayor 
concentrating on climate change may lose sight of controlling crime.

A third problem is the media reporting that makes it difficult to have good 
data. Here I mean information and emphasis presented in the mainstream media. I 
was watching carefully, and it looked to me like POTUS followed the advice of 
Fauci and Birx quite closely, but that such advice was not always good advice. 
But many reports in the media gave the impression that he did not.

Ultimately, the US response should not be measured against losses in war, but 
against real-world results in other advanced countries. We should have done 
better, but we were far from the worst.

Greg


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Karl 
Wittnebel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:03 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Karl Wittnebel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

Agreed about Iceland, in some sense. In general I am not a fan of such
comparisons, but actually their per capita international travel exposure is
far higher than ours. They had a lot of separate introductions of the
virus, and they were travelers from many countries. The useful bit of the
comparison is as a model of what a public health response should look like.
Let the health department solve communicable public health problems. For
more details of their experience, see:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/08/how-iceland-beat-the-coronavirus

The problem with the CDC is that they were not allowed to play their normal
role in either the public facing side of this or in the response. They
normally tell the administration what to say, rather than vice versa. Had
they been in control the response would have been far more classic "ramp up
the testing". True they messed up testing assay selection in the beginning,
but they should have moved immediately to a back up plan for increasing the
testing and this was not done. We can speculate about why this failure to
increase testing occurred, but I would submit that it was not because a
bunch of people at the CDC who basically live for epidemic response
suddenly decided it was not necessary.

As mentioned, neither De Blasio nor Cuomo listened to the NYC health
department, who were telling them for over three weeks that they should be
closing schools etc. before NYC did so. Finally when deblasio agreed to
close schools, Cuomo stated he had no authority to do so because new jersey
and CT needed to be involved as well and only the state can coordinate
that. So they got into a pissing match after delaying longer than they
should have. The results were clear. The lesson should be: listen to your
technocrats and do what they tell you to do.

There will always be disagreements about why things happen but this is how
I see it. The CDC is world renowned or has been. It has played huge roles
in outbreak investigation and control around the world for decades. How
this epidemic could be unfolding as it has under the CDC's nose in its own
backyard is a huge black eye for the organization and I would argue for the
country. It is sad state of affairs. For whatever reason they have not been
able to lead a world-class response to something that is their bread and
butter.

Happy to contribute whatever I can in terms of practical steps.


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 10:57 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful and extensive reply.  The personal-protection
> guidance (masks, groups, outdoors vs indoors, etc.) is particularly useful.
> I agree that we need a much better National response for the day a truly
> evil bug comes along.
>
> I don't think the Iceland experience is comparable to the US; Iceland is a
> remote island with little international travel and a population smaller
> than
> Bakersfield, CA.
>
> I find it hard to reconcile the NYC COVID experience and preparedness with
> a world-class health department.
>
> Finally, being retired and having a smart phone, I watched the daily
> briefings from the COVID Task Force and Cuomo, at least until they became
> redundant.  My recollection of the CDC doctors' role is quite different
> from
> your description.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: Karl Wittnebel
>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM
>
> 

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Agreed about Iceland, in some sense. In general I am not a fan of such
comparisons, but actually their per capita international travel exposure is
far higher than ours. They had a lot of separate introductions of the
virus, and they were travelers from many countries. The useful bit of the
comparison is as a model of what a public health response should look like.
Let the health department solve communicable public health problems. For
more details of their experience, see:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/08/how-iceland-beat-the-coronavirus

The problem with the CDC is that they were not allowed to play their normal
role in either the public facing side of this or in the response. They
normally tell the administration what to say, rather than vice versa. Had
they been in control the response would have been far more classic "ramp up
the testing". True they messed up testing assay selection in the beginning,
but they should have moved immediately to a back up plan for increasing the
testing and this was not done. We can speculate about why this failure to
increase testing occurred, but I would submit that it was not because a
bunch of people at the CDC who basically live for epidemic response
suddenly decided it was not necessary.

As mentioned, neither De Blasio nor Cuomo listened to the NYC health
department, who were telling them for over three weeks that they should be
closing schools etc. before NYC did so. Finally when deblasio agreed to
close schools, Cuomo stated he had no authority to do so because new jersey
and CT needed to be involved as well and only the state can coordinate
that. So they got into a pissing match after delaying longer than they
should have. The results were clear. The lesson should be: listen to your
technocrats and do what they tell you to do.

There will always be disagreements about why things happen but this is how
I see it. The CDC is world renowned or has been. It has played huge roles
in outbreak investigation and control around the world for decades. How
this epidemic could be unfolding as it has under the CDC's nose in its own
backyard is a huge black eye for the organization and I would argue for the
country. It is sad state of affairs. For whatever reason they have not been
able to lead a world-class response to something that is their bread and
butter.

Happy to contribute whatever I can in terms of practical steps.


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 10:57 AM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Karl,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful and extensive reply.  The personal-protection
> guidance (masks, groups, outdoors vs indoors, etc.) is particularly useful.
> I agree that we need a much better National response for the day a truly
> evil bug comes along.
>
> I don't think the Iceland experience is comparable to the US; Iceland is a
> remote island with little international travel and a population smaller
> than
> Bakersfield, CA.
>
> I find it hard to reconcile the NYC COVID experience and preparedness with
> a world-class health department.
>
> Finally, being retired and having a smart phone, I watched the daily
> briefings from the COVID Task Force and Cuomo, at least until they became
> redundant.  My recollection of the CDC doctors' role is quite different
> from
> your description.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Scott
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: Karl Wittnebel
>  Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM
>
> At their root level, public health crises driven by highly infectious
> diseases are a national problem. The response alwys needs to be carried out
> by state and local entities, but particularly when dealing with a novel
> pathogen, allowing the best scientific and public health experts to drive
> the response is critical. That is what Iceland did. The public health
> department drove the entire thing. Politicians were not involved at all in
> telling them what to do or how to do it. There will always be political
> ramifications from any action, but those cut both ways and if the
> politicians drive it and get things wrong, they pay the price. So I would
> argue it is best to just rely on the public health experts and let them
> take
> any heat. Best for the politicians and best for the country in terms of
> disease control.
>
> Anyway State departments of health are highly variable in their resources
> and levels of expertise and will therefore depend to varying levels on
> national resources and guidance for their reponse plans and policies. New
> York City is a world class health department on its own, for instance.
> Their politicians chose not to listen to their public health officials
> initially, and look at the result. Those few weeks of political dilly
> dallying could have saved a lot of older people's lives, and some younger
> people also, in and around NYC. But I digress. The main point is that most
> of the country is not as well equipped as NYC. So their heaalth departments
> need help with technical aspects as well as 

[MBZ] OT New Treatment for Wuhan Red Death

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281

Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug

A cheap and widely available drug can help save the lives of patients
seriously ill with coronavirus.

The low-dose steroid treatment dexamethasone is a major breakthrough in the
fight against the deadly virus, UK experts say.

The drug is part of the world's biggest trial testing existing treatments
 to see if they also work for coronavirus.

It cut the risk of death by a third for patients on ventilators. For those
on oxygen, it cut deaths by a fifth.
-
Max
Charleston SC
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] Arctic Crack

[Clay via Mercedes]

Canada will not let me in.  Also not the best market for the car.  Old American 
iron is the classic of choice.  Better parts and repair options.  The dealer 
here is under educated in working on “real” cars.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On Jun 15, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Mitchell Haley EA via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Maybe Clay should drive Froggy up there and sell it.
> June/July is the right time for that, isn't it?



clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.




___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

[MBZ] Mercedes Benz GL320 CDI - $8900 (James Island, SC)

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

https://charleston.craigslist.org/cto/d/charleston-mercedes-benz-gl320-cdi/7142760658.html

2008 Mercedes Benz GL 320 CDI
149, 920 miles
All wheel drive
Diesel (no DEF required)
Very good condition
Asking $8,900
Located on James Island

(pictures do not show sunroof and moonroof in back)
Call 843 five six six - four three nine one if interested

--
--FT


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT Wuhan Red Death mortality rate study

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Karl,

Thank you for your thoughtful and extensive reply.  The personal-protection
guidance (masks, groups, outdoors vs indoors, etc.) is particularly useful.
I agree that we need a much better National response for the day a truly
evil bug comes along.

I don't think the Iceland experience is comparable to the US; Iceland is a
remote island with little international travel and a population smaller than
Bakersfield, CA.

I find it hard to reconcile the NYC COVID experience and preparedness with
a world-class health department.

Finally, being retired and having a smart phone, I watched the daily
briefings from the COVID Task Force and Cuomo, at least until they became
redundant.  My recollection of the CDC doctors' role is quite different from
your description.  

Thanks.  

Scott

 -Original Message-
 From: Karl Wittnebel 
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 2:04 PM

At their root level, public health crises driven by highly infectious
diseases are a national problem. The response alwys needs to be carried out
by state and local entities, but particularly when dealing with a novel
pathogen, allowing the best scientific and public health experts to drive
the response is critical. That is what Iceland did. The public health
department drove the entire thing. Politicians were not involved at all in
telling them what to do or how to do it. There will always be political
ramifications from any action, but those cut both ways and if the
politicians drive it and get things wrong, they pay the price. So I would
argue it is best to just rely on the public health experts and let them take
any heat. Best for the politicians and best for the country in terms of
disease control.

Anyway State departments of health are highly variable in their resources
and levels of expertise and will therefore depend to varying levels on
national resources and guidance for their reponse plans and policies. New
York City is a world class health department on its own, for instance.
Their politicians chose not to listen to their public health officials
initially, and look at the result. Those few weeks of political dilly
dallying could have saved a lot of older people's lives, and some younger
people also, in and around NYC. But I digress. The main point is that most
of the country is not as well equipped as NYC. So their heaalth departments
need help with technical aspects as well as guidance on what policies are
most effective. Not that the guidance will always be perfect, but a
consistent, unified voice is always more reassuring during a crisis than a
fragmented response where politicians undermine what the public health
people say, whether it be about masks, treatments, business closures, travel
restrictions etc. You want the public to see everyone working together
consistently in an apolitical fashion to manage the problem.
Centralized, national leadership is a key part of getting the response
entites on the same page. Telling the states to figure it out for themselves
isnt using the available resources very well. Both FEMA and the CDC have
considerable expertise and resources that could be used in ways they have
not been so far.

Re The Prez: he would have been better served to stay out of the limelight
on the whole thing. Committing hard to specific ideas when the state of
knowledge is poorly developed is kind of like putting all your money on red
22: not likely to pay out. He made a lot of foolish statements that painted
him into a corner. He doesnt have enough technical depth to comment and
doesnt seem to appreciate how out of his depth he is. He should have relied
more on the CDC people to lead the response, but they were pretty much
muzzled. They would literally normally be telling everyone what to do,
mobilizing considerable resources to facilitate testing and telling states
what the test and trace policies and targets should be. Instead we have had
the JK crew telling everyone that the states are on their own for stockpile
and other resources and POTUS telling everyone the states are responsible
for dealing with their own epidemics and lockdown policies. CDC has
definitely been told to stand down or they would be out in front on all of
it. FEMA would definitely be driving the stockpile distributions and
policies, which should be transparent and non punitive. Basically this was a
big political opportunity for DT to let the machinery work and then declare
victory. Instead the epidemic is poorly controlled, dragging on into
election season, the economic impact is dragging on longer than it should,
and there is a high chance it will all get worse again. There is a strong
chance we will end up doing the usual public health test and trace
interventions anyway.

The lockdown was super draconian and largely unprecedented. It was never
going to be a workable long term strategy. The best thing for the economy
would have been to tell the nation that everyone needs to do their part to
fight this thing, train up contact tracing teams, 

[MBZ] (no subject)

[Frederick Moir via Mercedes]

The Lake Isle of Innisfree

I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,
And a small cabin build there, of clay and wattles made;
Nine bean rows will I have there, a hive for the honey bee,
And live alone in the bee-loud glade.

And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings;
There midnight's all a glimmer, and noon a purple glow,
And evening full of the linnet's wings.

I will arise and go now, for always night and day
I hear lake water lapping with low sounds by the shore;
While I stand on the roadway, or on the pavements grey,
I hear it in the deep heart's core.
Williams Butler Yeats.
-- 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com