Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
> Maybe biodiesel will return to the pumps.

Not likely.

Most diesel fuel has 5% biodiesel added to it for lubricity. Modern diesel 
engines with DPF and Regen cycles don't tolerate biodiesel well.

Here's a couple of articles to increase your understanding of the matter.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/articles/2290/understanding-the-post-injection-problem

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2011-01-2396/

BTW, Meijer diesel doesn't contain biodiesel.

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Maybe biodiesel will return to the pumps.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 11:37 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Yes, diesel pickups were and still are abused by using used veg oil. They
> are ruined for the same reasons.
> Used cooking oil is severely contaminated with water, acids, and food
> particles that do not flow throw injection pumps and injectors. Failure to
> remove those contaminants is common with the belief that you just pump the
> waste cooking oil into your diesel tank and drive away for free.
> That does not work.
> Add to those sins the viscosity of veg oil at room temperature [whatever
> ambient temp might be].
> IF you have clean veg oil, de watered, and acid neutral, it still must be
> pre-heated to between 160F/180F to achieve a flow rate that will support
> atomization at the injector nozzle. Below 160F the nozzles will dribble and
> spew instead of spray crisply.
> The lack of good spray pattern means you do not get good compression
> ignition, thus semi burned veg oil builds carbon globs that stick and stack
> in the combustion chambers, valves, and nozzles. Those chunks of semi
> burned carbon grind the rings and cylinder walls to death.
> Further, the cold veg oil overworks the injector pump, fails to lubricate
> the close tolerance moving parts, and galls them [ruins the IP so it can
> not be rebuilt].
> So, the answer to your question is Yes, diesel trucks are also
> destroyed.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:17 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > When oil was $10/bbl did they use it as salad dressing??
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 10:11 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I saw it with older VW diesels also, around here.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 9:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > > > Good question. I have only really noticed it with MB diesels. For
> some
> > > > reason people think you can just run them with no maintenance and
> they
> > > > will last a million miles.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > >> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I wonder if they (veg oil morons) destroy diesel pickups too?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Rick
> > > >>
> > > >> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > > >> Sent: March 3, 2022 8:53 PM
> > > >> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; davesl...@okiebenz.com
> > > >> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > > >> Cc: ka...@striplin.net
> > > >> Subject: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again
> > > >>
> > > >> Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale,
> talking
> > > about running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars
> were
> > > not destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood
> > stack
> > > people, will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil
> > people.
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >>
> > > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >>
> > > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
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Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Yes, diesel pickups were and still are abused by using used veg oil. They
are ruined for the same reasons.
Used cooking oil is severely contaminated with water, acids, and food
particles that do not flow throw injection pumps and injectors. Failure to
remove those contaminants is common with the belief that you just pump the
waste cooking oil into your diesel tank and drive away for free.
That does not work.
Add to those sins the viscosity of veg oil at room temperature [whatever
ambient temp might be].
IF you have clean veg oil, de watered, and acid neutral, it still must be
pre-heated to between 160F/180F to achieve a flow rate that will support
atomization at the injector nozzle. Below 160F the nozzles will dribble and
spew instead of spray crisply.
The lack of good spray pattern means you do not get good compression
ignition, thus semi burned veg oil builds carbon globs that stick and stack
in the combustion chambers, valves, and nozzles. Those chunks of semi
burned carbon grind the rings and cylinder walls to death.
Further, the cold veg oil overworks the injector pump, fails to lubricate
the close tolerance moving parts, and galls them [ruins the IP so it can
not be rebuilt].
So, the answer to your question is Yes, diesel trucks are also
destroyed.


On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:17 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> When oil was $10/bbl did they use it as salad dressing??
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 10:11 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I saw it with older VW diesels also, around here.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 9:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > > Good question. I have only really noticed it with MB diesels. For some
> > > reason people think you can just run them with no maintenance and they
> > > will last a million miles.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I wonder if they (veg oil morons) destroy diesel pickups too?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Rick
> > >>
> > >> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > >> Sent: March 3, 2022 8:53 PM
> > >> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; davesl...@okiebenz.com
> > >> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > >> Cc: ka...@striplin.net
> > >> Subject: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again
> > >>
> > >> Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale, talking
> > about running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars were
> > not destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood
> stack
> > people, will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil
> people.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
When oil was $10/bbl did they use it as salad dressing??

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 10:11 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I saw it with older VW diesels also, around here.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 9:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > Good question. I have only really noticed it with MB diesels. For some
> > reason people think you can just run them with no maintenance and they
> > will last a million miles.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I wonder if they (veg oil morons) destroy diesel pickups too?
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >> Sent: March 3, 2022 8:53 PM
> >> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; davesl...@okiebenz.com
> >> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >> Cc: ka...@striplin.net
> >> Subject: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again
> >>
> >> Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale, talking
> about running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars were
> not destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood stack
> people, will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil people.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
I saw it with older VW diesels also, around here.


On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 9:59 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> Good question. I have only really noticed it with MB diesels. For some 
> reason people think you can just run them with no maintenance and they 
> will last a million miles. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I wonder if they (veg oil morons) destroy diesel pickups too?
>> 
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Sent: March 3, 2022 8:53 PM
>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; davesl...@okiebenz.com
>> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>> Cc: ka...@striplin.net
>> Subject: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again
>> 
>> Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale, talking about 
>> running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars were not 
>> destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood stack 
>> people, will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil people.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Good question. I have only really noticed it with MB diesels. For some reason 
people think you can just run them with no maintenance and they will last a 
million miles. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I wonder if they (veg oil morons) destroy diesel pickups too?
> 
> 
> Rick
> 
> From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Sent: March 3, 2022 8:53 PM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; davesl...@okiebenz.com
> Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: ka...@striplin.net
> Subject: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again
> 
> Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale, talking about 
> running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars were not 
> destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood stack 
> people, will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil people.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
I wonder if they (veg oil morons) destroy diesel pickups too?


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: March 3, 2022 8:53 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com; davesl...@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: ka...@striplin.net
Subject: [MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale, talking about 
running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars were not 
destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood stack people, 
will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil people.

Sent from my iPhone

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[MBZ] It’s 2008 all over again

2022-03-03 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Starting to see posts on Fakebook, and ads for cars for sale, talking about 
running used cooking oil as fuel. Here we go again. What cars were not 
destroyed by the first round of cooking oil people, then the hood stack people, 
will surely be destroyed by the second round of cooking oil people. 

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] 1971 W114 250/8 - 56k miles - $10,500

2022-03-03 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Looks nice

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:12 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> IDK what these are worth but it looks pretty clean and original except for 
> the radio. Looks like it might have one crack on the dash.
> 
> Manual windows, so Andrew won't be interested
> 
> https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/d/south-elgin-1971-mercedes-250/7453392096.html
> 
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Re: [MBZ] serious buyer's only no tire kickers

2022-03-03 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
That’s in’sane for a car with that many mile’s and an engine that could grenade

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 8:06 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 2007 E350 - 169k miles - $8,900
> 
> https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/louisville-mercedes-e350/7453456032.html
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Save the Date- ChowdahQ XV Sept. 10, 2022

2022-03-03 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
you are right Dimitri. or fly in & we will pick you up at the airport in a
vintage Benz.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 6:33 PM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yes zoom on over to Rhode Island in your trusty diesel or whatever MB!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 3, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > We need to do a ZoomQ since a good many of us are not New Englanders
> and have difficulty participating in this event.
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 03/03/2022 4:40 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Dwight E. Giles Jr.
> >> Wickford RI
> >>
> >>
> >> -.
> >>
> >>
> >> [image: image.png]
> >>
> >> Mark your calendar for another wonderful celebration of vehicles and
> >> camaraderie.  Once again we  will be at Goddard State Park, 1095 Ives
> Road
> >> Warwick RI. Sites 40-42.
> >> http://www.riparks.com/Locations/LocationGoddard.html
> >>
> >> We will start to gather about 10AM for coffee and Dunkin Donuts (It is
> New
> >> England).  We will start with Chowdah about 1PM.  As always we will have
> >> clam loaded Chowdah and Curt's Coleman cooked  food of You Tube Fame .
> Fred
> >> Moir  will once again make his famous healthy veggie trays and dips and
> we
> >> will have Mary's fresh fruit.  We  will also steam a couple hundred
> local
> >> littleneck clams.
> >>
> >> As usual, we will have a great time of hood raising, story telling, some
> >> games and contests and a drawing for a  gift certificate from  our
> sponsor
> >> Fred's Autohaus  in West Warwick RI. No admission charge  but we will
> pass
> >> the 240D hubcap for expenses.
> >>
> >>
> >> Dwight E. Giles Jr.
> >> 1982 300CD
> >> 2005 E320 4matic
> >>
> >>
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >>
> >
> >
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[MBZ] 1971 W114 250/8 - 56k miles - $10,500

2022-03-03 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
IDK what these are worth but it looks pretty clean and original except for the 
radio. Looks like it might have one crack on the dash.

Manual windows, so Andrew won't be interested

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/d/south-elgin-1971-mercedes-250/7453392096.html

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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread dan penoff.com via Mercedes
Could also be something as simple as some doofus pulling the steering 
wheel/airbag with the battery connected. When SRS loses the signal it errors, 
and the only way to clear it is with SDS/Xentry.

-D

From: Mercedes  on behalf of Bob Rentfro via 
Mercedes 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 8:00 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Bob Rentfro 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

It’d be nice if it were closer.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 5:59 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>
> Could be any number of things, but I'm betting on the front passenger seat 
> occupancy sensor.
>
> -D
> 
> From: Mercedes  on behalf of Bob Rentfro via 
> Mercedes 
> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 1:19 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Bob Rentfro 
> Subject: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?
>
> This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?
>
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/
>
> AZBob
>
> Sent from my iPad
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[MBZ] serious buyer's only no tire kickers

2022-03-03 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
2007 E350 - 169k miles - $8,900

https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/louisville-mercedes-e350/7453456032.html
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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
It’d be nice if it were closer. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 5:59 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Could be any number of things, but I'm betting on the front passenger seat 
> occupancy sensor.
> 
> -D
> 
> From: Mercedes  on behalf of Bob Rentfro via 
> Mercedes 
> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 1:19 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Bob Rentfro 
> Subject: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?
> 
> This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/
> 
> AZBob
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
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> 
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread dan penoff.com via Mercedes
Could be any number of things, but I'm betting on the front passenger seat 
occupancy sensor.

-D

From: Mercedes  on behalf of Bob Rentfro via 
Mercedes 
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 1:19 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Bob Rentfro 
Subject: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/

AZBob

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread Rick Knoble via Mercedes
I would think you have to access the 38 pin port to pull those codes. Some 
scanners can use an adapter for access. Not sure about the icarsoft.


Rick

From: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: March 3, 2022 1:53 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-to: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: buggeredbenzm...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

Maybe, I don't know if the iCarsoft can do it. It can clear a lot of
codes but that might not be in its oeuvre

--FT

On 3/3/22 1:26 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
> But, again, this would require more than a normal code reader, yes?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>
>> Might be from the dead battery but you’d need to scan it and see if there 
>> is some particular code that is causing it, some sensors unhappy
>>
>> --FT
>> Sent from iFōn
>>
>>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 1:20 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/
>>>
>>> AZBob
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
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>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
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--
--FT
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Save the Date- ChowdahQ XV Sept. 10, 2022

2022-03-03 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
yes we could do that. would be fun.. let's think about when & how during
the day to do that.  I am copying Curt our CTO on this.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 6:13 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> We need to do a ZoomQ since a good many of us are not New Englanders and
> have difficulty participating in this event.
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> On 03/03/2022 4:40 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
> > Dwight E. Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> >
> > -.
> >
> >
> > [image: image.png]
> >
> > Mark your calendar for another wonderful celebration of vehicles and
> > camaraderie.  Once again we  will be at Goddard State Park, 1095 Ives
> Road
> > Warwick RI. Sites 40-42.
> > http://www.riparks.com/Locations/LocationGoddard.html
> >
> > We will start to gather about 10AM for coffee and Dunkin Donuts (It is
> New
> > England).  We will start with Chowdah about 1PM.  As always we will have
> > clam loaded Chowdah and Curt's Coleman cooked  food of You Tube Fame .
> Fred
> > Moir  will once again make his famous healthy veggie trays and dips and
> we
> > will have Mary's fresh fruit.  We  will also steam a couple hundred local
> > littleneck clams.
> >
> > As usual, we will have a great time of hood raising, story telling, some
> > games and contests and a drawing for a  gift certificate from  our
> sponsor
> > Fred's Autohaus  in West Warwick RI. No admission charge  but we will
> pass
> > the 240D hubcap for expenses.
> >
> >
> > Dwight E. Giles Jr.
> > 1982 300CD
> > 2005 E320 4matic
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Save the Date- ChowdahQ XV Sept. 10, 2022

2022-03-03 Thread Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes
Yes zoom on over to Rhode Island in your trusty diesel or whatever MB!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> We need to do a ZoomQ since a good many of us are not New Englanders and 
> have difficulty participating in this event.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> 
>> On 03/03/2022 4:40 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:
>> Dwight E. Giles Jr.
>> Wickford RI
>> 
>> 
>> -.
>> 
>> 
>> [image: image.png]
>> 
>> Mark your calendar for another wonderful celebration of vehicles and
>> camaraderie.  Once again we  will be at Goddard State Park, 1095 Ives Road
>> Warwick RI. Sites 40-42.
>> http://www.riparks.com/Locations/LocationGoddard.html
>> 
>> We will start to gather about 10AM for coffee and Dunkin Donuts (It is New
>> England).  We will start with Chowdah about 1PM.  As always we will have
>> clam loaded Chowdah and Curt's Coleman cooked  food of You Tube Fame . Fred
>> Moir  will once again make his famous healthy veggie trays and dips and we
>> will have Mary's fresh fruit.  We  will also steam a couple hundred local
>> littleneck clams.
>> 
>> As usual, we will have a great time of hood raising, story telling, some
>> games and contests and a drawing for a  gift certificate from  our sponsor
>> Fred's Autohaus  in West Warwick RI. No admission charge  but we will pass
>> the 240D hubcap for expenses.
>> 
>> 
>> Dwight E. Giles Jr.
>> 1982 300CD
>> 2005 E320 4matic
>> 
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Fwd: Save the Date- ChowdahQ XV Sept. 10, 2022

2022-03-03 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
We need to do a ZoomQ since a good many of us are not New Englanders and 
have difficulty participating in this event.


Randy



On 03/03/2022 4:40 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes wrote:

Dwight E. Giles Jr.
Wickford RI


-.


[image: image.png]

Mark your calendar for another wonderful celebration of vehicles and
camaraderie.  Once again we  will be at Goddard State Park, 1095 Ives Road
Warwick RI. Sites 40-42.
http://www.riparks.com/Locations/LocationGoddard.html

We will start to gather about 10AM for coffee and Dunkin Donuts (It is New
England).  We will start with Chowdah about 1PM.  As always we will have
clam loaded Chowdah and Curt's Coleman cooked  food of You Tube Fame . Fred
Moir  will once again make his famous healthy veggie trays and dips and we
will have Mary's fresh fruit.  We  will also steam a couple hundred local
littleneck clams.

As usual, we will have a great time of hood raising, story telling, some
games and contests and a drawing for a  gift certificate from  our sponsor
Fred's Autohaus  in West Warwick RI. No admission charge  but we will pass
the 240D hubcap for expenses.


Dwight E. Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
2005 E320 4matic


.


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[MBZ] Fwd: Save the Date- ChowdahQ XV Sept. 10, 2022

2022-03-03 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Dwight E. Giles Jr.
Wickford RI


-.


[image: image.png]

Mark your calendar for another wonderful celebration of vehicles and
camaraderie.  Once again we  will be at Goddard State Park, 1095 Ives Road
Warwick RI. Sites 40-42.
http://www.riparks.com/Locations/LocationGoddard.html

We will start to gather about 10AM for coffee and Dunkin Donuts (It is New
England).  We will start with Chowdah about 1PM.  As always we will have
clam loaded Chowdah and Curt's Coleman cooked  food of You Tube Fame . Fred
Moir  will once again make his famous healthy veggie trays and dips and we
will have Mary's fresh fruit.  We  will also steam a couple hundred local
littleneck clams.

As usual, we will have a great time of hood raising, story telling, some
games and contests and a drawing for a  gift certificate from  our sponsor
Fred's Autohaus  in West Warwick RI. No admission charge  but we will pass
the 240D hubcap for expenses.


Dwight E. Giles Jr.
1982 300CD
2005 E320 4matic


.
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Re: [MBZ] 123/126 air cleaner bracket

2022-03-03 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
If you don't have gas welding equipment, you should be able to do it 
with a MIG.


If you don't have a piece of flat copper, flatten a piece of copper pipe/


On 03/03/2022 3:59 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Its' thin sheet metal so gas weld using a very small tip and small filler
rod, clamp the broken pieces down to a piece of copper backing that is
thicker than the material welded. The weld puddle will not bond to the
copper on the back side of the weld. Clean the pieces before welding so
they are bright metal and clean. If you preheat the broken weld area on
each piece the galvanization will burn off [go for light cherry red heat
along the crack line] then wire brush after it cools.. that will take you
back to steel base metal so you can get a good gas weld.
Bob will become your uncle.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 2:02 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Yeah reinforce it or you will be welding it again soon. It is easy to blast
through that thin metal. Add a short section of radiator hose between the
valve cover and the air cleaner housing to keep vibration from destroying
the mounts and bracket again.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 6:00 AM MG via Mercedes 
wrote:


I have welded them before. They are galvanized so
do it outside with the air moving away from you. I
would also add an extra piece of metal across the
break for a couple of inches as they tend to
rebreak at the same point.

MG

Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:

I found a broken bracket in my piles of treasures and since my new

welder arrived Friday and I have nascent skills it got me thinking…

I’m wondering if it is galvanized or something as there is no rust on

it, or if it’s some metal that is not stick or mig weldable. Anyone know?

--FT



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Re: [MBZ] 123/126 air cleaner bracket

2022-03-03 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Its' thin sheet metal so gas weld using a very small tip and small filler
rod, clamp the broken pieces down to a piece of copper backing that is
thicker than the material welded. The weld puddle will not bond to the
copper on the back side of the weld. Clean the pieces before welding so
they are bright metal and clean. If you preheat the broken weld area on
each piece the galvanization will burn off [go for light cherry red heat
along the crack line] then wire brush after it cools.. that will take you
back to steel base metal so you can get a good gas weld.
Bob will become your uncle.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 2:02 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yeah reinforce it or you will be welding it again soon. It is easy to blast
> through that thin metal. Add a short section of radiator hose between the
> valve cover and the air cleaner housing to keep vibration from destroying
> the mounts and bracket again.
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 6:00 AM MG via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
> > I have welded them before. They are galvanized so
> > do it outside with the air moving away from you. I
> > would also add an extra piece of metal across the
> > break for a couple of inches as they tend to
> > rebreak at the same point.
> >
> > MG
> >
> > Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> > > I found a broken bracket in my piles of treasures and since my new
> > welder arrived Friday and I have nascent skills it got me thinking…
> > >
> > > I’m wondering if it is galvanized or something as there is no rust on
> > it, or if it’s some metal that is not stick or mig weldable. Anyone know?
> > >
> > > --FT
> > > Sent from iFōn
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] 123/126 air cleaner bracket

2022-03-03 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
Yeah reinforce it or you will be welding it again soon. It is easy to blast
through that thin metal. Add a short section of radiator hose between the
valve cover and the air cleaner housing to keep vibration from destroying
the mounts and bracket again.

On Mon, Feb 28, 2022, 6:00 AM MG via Mercedes  wrote:

> I have welded them before. They are galvanized so
> do it outside with the air moving away from you. I
> would also add an extra piece of metal across the
> break for a couple of inches as they tend to
> rebreak at the same point.
>
> MG
>
> Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes wrote:
> > I found a broken bracket in my piles of treasures and since my new
> welder arrived Friday and I have nascent skills it got me thinking…
> >
> > I’m wondering if it is galvanized or something as there is no rust on
> it, or if it’s some metal that is not stick or mig weldable. Anyone know?
> >
> > --FT
> > Sent from iFōn
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] w126 front suspension bushings

2022-03-03 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
Yeah most of fcp's stuff for this job is Febi and Vaico and they dont even
have two of the big guide rod mount bushings in stock.

Will go OE, but febi for the front guide rod attach because it is nla.

Thanks.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2022, 9:08 PM Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I bought such a kit from FCP several years ago but they seem to have fewer
> and fewer 126 parts these days (at least on the web site).  My kit seemed
> to
> have all good quality European rubber, as I recall.  Couldn't hurt to call
> them.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 8:05 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Karl Wittnebel 
> Subject: [MBZ] w126 front suspension bushings
>
> Does anyone know of a kit with all the front suspension rubber bits on a
> w126? I replaced the control rod bushings on the body side, but the caster
> is still way out, so it needs control arm rubber and the rubber on the
> front
> end of the guide rod, and the big subframe rubber bushings. I am thinking
> of
> replacing the rear control arms while I am at it. I did the front ball
> joints and shocks already, so no need to get them.
>
> Maybe fcp?
>
> Thanks
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022, 3:50 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Basically what the story is she was driving in the left and dude with
> > trailer was in right lane.  He allegedly swerved into her lane while
> > passing on the right and his trailer caught the bumper.  The other
> > dude claims SWMBO swerved into his lane.  Cop arrives but this is
> > basically a he said she said deal.  Supposedly guy later admitted in
> > front of cop that he did in fact come over on her side and it was his
> > fault.  Cop asks if they want a police report and citations issues, or
> > if they want to let insurance handle it.  Wife opts for no report.  I
> > let wife know as soon as she contacts their insurance, there guy will
> > say it was her fault.  That is exactly what happened.  I guess SWMBO
> > is screwed.  Not sure how she will prove fault without a police
> > report.  IMO if he really admitted fault in front of cop, cop would
> > put that on report, if their was one.  I let SWMBO know you ALWAYS
> > demand a report when it is the other guys fault.  She says it was my
> > fault because she called me to ask and I did not answer.  I did not
> > answer because I was in meetings trying to work.
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
Maybe, I don't know if the iCarsoft can do it. It can clear a lot of 
codes but that might not be in its oeuvre


--FT

On 3/3/22 1:26 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:

But, again, this would require more than a normal code reader, yes?


Sent from my iPad


On Mar 3, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Buggered Benzmail via 
Mercedes  wrote:

Might be from the dead battery but you’d need to scan it and see if there is 
some particular code that is causing it, some sensors unhappy

--FT
Sent from iFōn


On Mar 3, 2022, at 1:20 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
wrote:

This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/

AZBob

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[MBZ] Visitation

2022-03-03 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Jack Crone and his buddy Sam came to pick up my spring compressor in Sam’s 
gorgeous R129 SL500, turquoise/gray. They’re young guys so it’s nice to see the 
younger generation becoming Benz enthusiasts. I’m hoping there are no hood 
stacks involved in their futures but it seems there might be some lowering 
springs involved in something but I will ignore that. They were quite enthused 
with the fleet here at the vast estate so that was a bonus too. 

--FT
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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
But, again, this would require more than a normal code reader, yes?


Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Might be from the dead battery but you’d need to scan it and see if there is 
> some particular code that is causing it, some sensors unhappy 
> 
> --FT
> Sent from iFōn
> 
>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 1:20 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?
>> 
>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/
>> 
>> AZBob
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Might be from the dead battery but you’d need to scan it and see if there is 
some particular code that is causing it, some sensors unhappy 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Mar 3, 2022, at 1:20 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/
> 
> AZBob
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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[MBZ] What Would Fix the SRS Message?

2022-03-03 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
This seems nice but what remedies the SRS message?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/640886103691120/

AZBob

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Re: [MBZ] 1951 Mercedes-Benz Type 170 DA Open Tourer Police (OTP) Special

2022-03-03 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
Definitely still from the post-war time period where they were using 1930s 
designs and whatever tooling that had survived the air raids. Looks little 
different from the cars that Hitler and his entourage drove around in.


On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, at 12:33 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
> My thoughts also. Original paint scheme, original engine, along with the
> original documents and story of who the owners have been.
> "Survivor status preserved", seems to me would have more long term value.
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 10:14 AM M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Be more interesting in original Border Guards nick.  \
>>
>> -MMM-
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 8:24 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > #506 of 531 examples built between 1948-51; Ordered by the
>> > German Border Guard (Bundesgrenzschutz)
>> >
>> > https://thembmarket.com/1951-mercedes-benz-type-170-police-special
>> >
>> > --
>> > --FT
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
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Re: [MBZ] 1951 Mercedes-Benz Type 170 DA Open Tourer Police (OTP) Special

2022-03-03 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
My thoughts also. Original paint scheme, original engine, along with the
original documents and story of who the owners have been.
"Survivor status preserved", seems to me would have more long term value.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 10:14 AM M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Be more interesting in original Border Guards nick.  \
>
> -MMM-
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 8:24 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > #506 of 531 examples built between 1948-51; Ordered by the
> > German Border Guard (Bundesgrenzschutz)
> >
> > https://thembmarket.com/1951-mercedes-benz-type-170-police-special
> >
> > --
> > --FT
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] 1951 Mercedes-Benz Type 170 DA Open Tourer Police (OTP) Special

2022-03-03 Thread M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes
Be more interesting in original Border Guards nick.  \

-MMM-

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 8:24 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> #506 of 531 examples built between 1948-51; Ordered by the
> German Border Guard (Bundesgrenzschutz)
>
> https://thembmarket.com/1951-mercedes-benz-type-170-police-special
>
> --
> --FT
> ___
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[MBZ] Alabaster white/gray leather hardest color 2002 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class CL 500 Coupe 2D, $6, 000

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1226723384523248

Sorry, no holds. The 1st one with cash in hand that works with my 
schedule meeting at public location. Title in hand. PRICED FOR FAST SALE.


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[MBZ] OOPS Re: hmmmm conductor plate time -- 2002 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK 55 AMG Coupe 2D, $3, 500

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1083081612545387

On 3/3/22 11:13 AM, Floyd Thursby wrote:


It's a cab, but still not a bad price


Seller's Description

Car still cuts on transmission needs to be rebuilt or serviced other 
than that the car is great .

--
--FT


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[MBZ] could be a cheap project for less money -- 2004 Mercedes-Benz E-Class E 500 4MATIC Sedan 4D, $2, 000

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
Could use strut mounts (used to have factory air ride) Intermittent 
issue with the TCM. ——> basically every now and then it will go into 
limp mode. Won’t come out of first gear and won’t go past neutral when 
putting in park (have to turn car off) Far as I can guess it’s caused by 
the water leak or TCM or could be the battery not supplying properly.


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/696440231788083

--
--FT
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[MBZ] hmmmm conductor plate time -- 2002 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class CLK 55 AMG Coupe 2D, $3, 500

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

It's a cab, but still not a bad price


   Seller's Description

Car still cuts on transmission needs to be rebuilt or serviced other 
than that the car is great .


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Re: [MBZ] 1951 Mercedes-Benz Type 170 DA Open Tourer Police (OTP) Special

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

I think a 606 would be a fun addition!

--FT

On 3/3/22 10:46 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

Interesting bit of history on wheels.
I wonder if the original numbers matching diesel engine is sitting
somewhere with the previous owner who installed the gas engine?

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:24 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


 #506 of 531 examples built between 1948-51; Ordered by the
 German Border Guard (Bundesgrenzschutz)

https://thembmarket.com/1951-mercedes-benz-type-170-police-special

--
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Re: [MBZ] 1951 Mercedes-Benz Type 170 DA Open Tourer Police (OTP) Special

2022-03-03 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Interesting bit of history on wheels.
I wonder if the original numbers matching diesel engine is sitting
somewhere with the previous owner who installed the gas engine?

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:24 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> #506 of 531 examples built between 1948-51; Ordered by the
> German Border Guard (Bundesgrenzschutz)
>
> https://thembmarket.com/1951-mercedes-benz-type-170-police-special
>
> --
> --FT
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[MBZ] I replaced the "S320" emblem with a "S500"

2022-03-03 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
1995 S320 - 194k miles - $2,750

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/d/chesterfield-1995-mercedes-benz-s320/7453193845.html

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Re: [MBZ] Michelin Cross Climate?

2022-03-03 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Those look just like the tire-shop snow tires on Angie's Golf...

-Curt

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022, 07:24:37 PM EST, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


Reading up on CrossClimate 2s, all you clowns back east should be all over 
these. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W5V7sK-WfR0

AZBob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 2, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> And just left the house and diesel is up about 30 cents since yesterday 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 2, 2022, at 12:56 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> No experience but Michelin is a decent brand if the price is good I'd say 
>> buy don't wait. Tire prices track oil prices.
>> 
>> 
 On Wed, Mar 2, 2022, at 1:51 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
>>> The world is nuts. I am shopping tires for my Passat. It appears the 
>>> only tire available in any Phoenix area Costco for it are Michelin 
>>> Cross Climates. They look odd. 
>>> Has anyone experience with these goofy looking things?
>>> 
>>> AZBob
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [MBZ] Shop door

2022-03-03 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Realistically there isn't any way to protect anything that somebody can't get 
through. A chainsaw cutting into a building will make a heck of a racket and 
the neighbors walk their dog by the camp pretty much every day. They also live 
close enough that they'd hear somebody running a saw at night. I don't expect 
they'd go out to investigate but they'd note the car leaving.

Simply removing one panel and walking in makes basically no noise, it'd be much 
easier.

-Curt

 On Wednesday, March 2, 2022, 04:18:21 PM EST, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


But isn't your camp in an area where most folks have a chain saw? Maybe 
already in the back of the pickup truck? Wouldn't take much to cut a 
nice big hole through the OSB.




On 02/03/2022 3:13 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> Geez, you just made me think about the "new" garage at camp, it's got 
> corrugated metal on the outside but I *think* the metal covers OSB so just 
> peeling back the tin would not be sufficient.
>
> -Curt
>
>
>
>
>
>


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[MBZ] 1951 Mercedes-Benz Type 170 DA Open Tourer Police (OTP) Special

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes



   #506 of 531 examples built between 1948-51; Ordered by the
   German Border Guard (Bundesgrenzschutz)

https://thembmarket.com/1951-mercedes-benz-type-170-police-special

--
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[MBZ] It gets great gas mileage - also is all wheel drive, and very fast! 2008 MERCEDES BENZ BLUE TECH DIESEL “Runs Great! - Very Dependable!” - $5,000 (Port Orange)

2022-03-03 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

Looks nice, price not crazy

https://daytona.craigslist.org/cto/d/port-orange-2008-mercedes-benz-blue/7453099164.html

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