Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Thank you.  I may hire you to pen my Promotional brochure.

On Sun, Mar 20, 2022 at 2:07 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> It's a car - so it's "well traveled".
>
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 9:20 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > It's not old it's Experienced.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 6:13 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And I’ll give you $550 for that crappy old W123 wagon.
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > -D
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Mar 19, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'll give you $501 for your 250SE.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 4:57 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> > > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> To put a tidy little bow on this string of emails, we were offered
> > $4500
> > > >> in trade value for the Jetta on the purchase of a 2021 Outback. The
> > > girls
> > > >> fell in love with it after they drove it.
> > > >> I told the dealership GM that in 1983 I bought a 1983 Subaru GL
> Wagon
> > > off
> > > >> of the showroom floor from Evan Mecham himself (ring a bell anyone
> > > familiar
> > > >> with AZ history) from his Glendale Subaru. Yesterday, 39 years
> later,
> > I
> > > >> bought another Subaru off of the showroom floor.  No one seemed to
> be
> > as
> > > >> excited as I was about that, and no one in the building ever heard
> of
> > Ev
> > > >> Mecham.
> > > >> This Subaru seems very nice. The tech is overwhelming. The owners
> > manual
> > > >> is 600 pages. Hell, the “Quick Start Guide” is 200 pages.  The young
> > > >> salesboy, in a very polite way, told me he realizes geezers like me
> > like
> > > >> reading the manuals when they get a new vehicle but most everyone
> else
> > > >> watch’s YouTube videos that have supplanted manuals.
> > > >> My ‘83 GL Wagon lasted a good long time. SWMBO loved it. When it his
> > > 250K
> > > >> miles (many trips between IL and AZ) traded it in on a ‘93 Eddie
> Bauer
> > > >> Edition Ford Exploder She drove that wagon around while I went
> through
> > > four
> > > >> cars:
> > > >> ‘68 250SE
> > > >> ‘63 Ford Falcon
> > > >> ‘78 Rabbit
> > > >> ‘68 Bug
> > > >>
> > > >> AZBob
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 
> > > 
> > >  We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment
> to
> > > it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance
> > cycle.
> > > >> I'm guilty of that at times too.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > >  Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
> > > >>> Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
> > > >>> CarMax?
> > > >>> Caveat emptor.
> > > >>> I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for
> > > >> reliability. Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most
> > > >> definitely NOT be taking on a payment.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Rick
> > > >>> ___
> > > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >>>
> > > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >>>
> > > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >>
> > > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 

Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It's a car - so it's "well traveled".

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 9:20 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It's not old it's Experienced.
>
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 6:13 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > And I’ll give you $550 for that crappy old W123 wagon.
> >
> > 
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> > > On Mar 19, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll give you $501 for your 250SE.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 4:57 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> To put a tidy little bow on this string of emails, we were offered
> $4500
> > >> in trade value for the Jetta on the purchase of a 2021 Outback. The
> > girls
> > >> fell in love with it after they drove it.
> > >> I told the dealership GM that in 1983 I bought a 1983 Subaru GL Wagon
> > off
> > >> of the showroom floor from Evan Mecham himself (ring a bell anyone
> > familiar
> > >> with AZ history) from his Glendale Subaru. Yesterday, 39 years later,
> I
> > >> bought another Subaru off of the showroom floor.  No one seemed to be
> as
> > >> excited as I was about that, and no one in the building ever heard of
> Ev
> > >> Mecham.
> > >> This Subaru seems very nice. The tech is overwhelming. The owners
> manual
> > >> is 600 pages. Hell, the “Quick Start Guide” is 200 pages.  The young
> > >> salesboy, in a very polite way, told me he realizes geezers like me
> like
> > >> reading the manuals when they get a new vehicle but most everyone else
> > >> watch’s YouTube videos that have supplanted manuals.
> > >> My ‘83 GL Wagon lasted a good long time. SWMBO loved it. When it his
> > 250K
> > >> miles (many trips between IL and AZ) traded it in on a ‘93 Eddie Bauer
> > >> Edition Ford Exploder She drove that wagon around while I went through
> > four
> > >> cars:
> > >> ‘68 250SE
> > >> ‘63 Ford Falcon
> > >> ‘78 Rabbit
> > >> ‘68 Bug
> > >>
> > >> AZBob
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> 
> > 
> >  We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to
> > it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance
> cycle.
> > >> I'm guilty of that at times too.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> > >>>
> > >>> I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
> > >>> Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
> > >>> CarMax?
> > >>> Caveat emptor.
> > >>> I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for
> > >> reliability. Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most
> > >> definitely NOT be taking on a payment.
> > >>>
> > >>> Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.
> > >>>
> > >>> Rick
> > >>> ___
> > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>>
> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>>
> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

It's not old it's Experienced.

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 6:13 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> And I’ll give you $550 for that crappy old W123 wagon.
>
> 
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Mar 19, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'll give you $501 for your 250SE.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 4:57 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> To put a tidy little bow on this string of emails, we were offered $4500
> >> in trade value for the Jetta on the purchase of a 2021 Outback. The
> girls
> >> fell in love with it after they drove it.
> >> I told the dealership GM that in 1983 I bought a 1983 Subaru GL Wagon
> off
> >> of the showroom floor from Evan Mecham himself (ring a bell anyone
> familiar
> >> with AZ history) from his Glendale Subaru. Yesterday, 39 years later, I
> >> bought another Subaru off of the showroom floor.  No one seemed to be as
> >> excited as I was about that, and no one in the building ever heard of Ev
> >> Mecham.
> >> This Subaru seems very nice. The tech is overwhelming. The owners manual
> >> is 600 pages. Hell, the “Quick Start Guide” is 200 pages.  The young
> >> salesboy, in a very polite way, told me he realizes geezers like me like
> >> reading the manuals when they get a new vehicle but most everyone else
> >> watch’s YouTube videos that have supplanted manuals.
> >> My ‘83 GL Wagon lasted a good long time. SWMBO loved it. When it his
> 250K
> >> miles (many trips between IL and AZ) traded it in on a ‘93 Eddie Bauer
> >> Edition Ford Exploder She drove that wagon around while I went through
> four
> >> cars:
> >> ‘68 250SE
> >> ‘63 Ford Falcon
> >> ‘78 Rabbit
> >> ‘68 Bug
> >>
> >> AZBob
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 
> 
>  We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to
> it.
> >>>
> >>> Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance cycle.
> >> I'm guilty of that at times too.
> >>>
> >>>
>  Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> >>>
> >>> I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
> >>> Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
> >>> CarMax?
> >>> Caveat emptor.
> >>> I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for
> >> reliability. Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most
> >> definitely NOT be taking on a payment.
> >>>
> >>> Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.
> >>>
> >>> Rick
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

And I’ll give you $550 for that crappy old W123 wagon.



-D


> On Mar 19, 2022, at 5:58 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'll give you $501 for your 250SE.
> 
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 4:57 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> To put a tidy little bow on this string of emails, we were offered $4500
>> in trade value for the Jetta on the purchase of a 2021 Outback. The girls
>> fell in love with it after they drove it.
>> I told the dealership GM that in 1983 I bought a 1983 Subaru GL Wagon off
>> of the showroom floor from Evan Mecham himself (ring a bell anyone familiar
>> with AZ history) from his Glendale Subaru. Yesterday, 39 years later, I
>> bought another Subaru off of the showroom floor.  No one seemed to be as
>> excited as I was about that, and no one in the building ever heard of Ev
>> Mecham.
>> This Subaru seems very nice. The tech is overwhelming. The owners manual
>> is 600 pages. Hell, the “Quick Start Guide” is 200 pages.  The young
>> salesboy, in a very polite way, told me he realizes geezers like me like
>> reading the manuals when they get a new vehicle but most everyone else
>> watch’s YouTube videos that have supplanted manuals.
>> My ‘83 GL Wagon lasted a good long time. SWMBO loved it. When it his 250K
>> miles (many trips between IL and AZ) traded it in on a ‘93 Eddie Bauer
>> Edition Ford Exploder She drove that wagon around while I went through four
>> cars:
>> ‘68 250SE
>> ‘63 Ford Falcon
>> ‘78 Rabbit
>> ‘68 Bug
>> 
>> AZBob
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 
 We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>>> 
>>> Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance cycle.
>> I'm guilty of that at times too.
>>> 
>>> 
 Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>>> 
>>> I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
>>> Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
>>> CarMax?
>>> Caveat emptor.
>>> I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for
>> reliability. Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most
>> definitely NOT be taking on a payment.
>>> 
>>> Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I'll give you $501 for your 250SE.

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 4:57 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> To put a tidy little bow on this string of emails, we were offered $4500
> in trade value for the Jetta on the purchase of a 2021 Outback. The girls
> fell in love with it after they drove it.
> I told the dealership GM that in 1983 I bought a 1983 Subaru GL Wagon off
> of the showroom floor from Evan Mecham himself (ring a bell anyone familiar
> with AZ history) from his Glendale Subaru. Yesterday, 39 years later, I
> bought another Subaru off of the showroom floor.  No one seemed to be as
> excited as I was about that, and no one in the building ever heard of Ev
> Mecham.
> This Subaru seems very nice. The tech is overwhelming. The owners manual
> is 600 pages. Hell, the “Quick Start Guide” is 200 pages.  The young
> salesboy, in a very polite way, told me he realizes geezers like me like
> reading the manuals when they get a new vehicle but most everyone else
> watch’s YouTube videos that have supplanted manuals.
> My ‘83 GL Wagon lasted a good long time. SWMBO loved it. When it his 250K
> miles (many trips between IL and AZ) traded it in on a ‘93 Eddie Bauer
> Edition Ford Exploder She drove that wagon around while I went through four
> cars:
> ‘68 250SE
> ‘63 Ford Falcon
> ‘78 Rabbit
> ‘68 Bug
>
> AZBob
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>
> >> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
> >
> > Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance cycle.
> I'm guilty of that at times too.
> >
> >
> >> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> >
> > I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
> > Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
> > CarMax?
> > Caveat emptor.
> > I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for
> reliability. Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most
> definitely NOT be taking on a payment.
> >
> > Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.
> >
> > Rick
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

To put a tidy little bow on this string of emails, we were offered $4500 in 
trade value for the Jetta on the purchase of a 2021 Outback. The girls fell in 
love with it after they drove it. 
I told the dealership GM that in 1983 I bought a 1983 Subaru GL Wagon off of 
the showroom floor from Evan Mecham himself (ring a bell anyone familiar with 
AZ history) from his Glendale Subaru. Yesterday, 39 years later, I bought 
another Subaru off of the showroom floor.  No one seemed to be as excited as I 
was about that, and no one in the building ever heard of Ev Mecham. 
This Subaru seems very nice. The tech is overwhelming. The owners manual is 600 
pages. Hell, the “Quick Start Guide” is 200 pages.  The young salesboy, in a 
very polite way, told me he realizes geezers like me like reading the manuals 
when they get a new vehicle but most everyone else watch’s YouTube videos that 
have supplanted manuals. 
My ‘83 GL Wagon lasted a good long time. SWMBO loved it. When it his 250K miles 
(many trips between IL and AZ) traded it in on a ‘93 Eddie Bauer Edition Ford 
Exploder She drove that wagon around while I went through four cars: 
‘68 250SE
‘63 Ford Falcon
‘78 Rabbit
‘68 Bug

AZBob

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 18, 2022, at 6:53 PM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
> 
> Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance cycle. I'm 
> guilty of that at times too.
> 
> 
>> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> 
> I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
> Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
> CarMax?
> Caveat emptor.
> I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for 
> reliability. Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most 
> definitely NOT be taking on a payment.
> 
> Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.
> 
> Rick
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

Something to be said for following the "severe duty" maintenance cycle. I'm 
guilty of that at times too.


> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?

I'd sell it outright, or to CarMax.
Private party, I'd be honest about it's faults.
CarMax?
Caveat emptor.
I'd take the cash and buy something with a proven track record for reliability. 
Which probably means a soulless econo-box. I would most definitely NOT be 
taking on a payment.

Or if I was retired and wanted a project, I would fix it myself.

Rick
___
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

"The Nissan" is a pretty broad stroke. Nissan makes many different models. The 
little crappy ones probably aren't great in a crash, the big ones are probably 
better.

When we were shopping pickup trucks I really liked the Nissan Titan except for 
the padded center console/arm rest thing that had no storage in it which I 
thought was a waste of space.

-Curt


 On Friday, March 18, 2022, 12:30:30 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


I don't think the Nissan has a good crash rating.

Randy


On 18/03/2022 4:37 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
> Another vote for used engine. Used cars are insane right now. Couple grand
> to install the 500 dollar motor and drive on. Otherwise buy a used nissan
> sentra or toyota corolla with a stick and just pay the money.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:41 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm
>> come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let
>> it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came
>> in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do
>> so it sat for about three hours.
>>
>> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no
>> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded
>> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely
>> and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the
>> alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.
>>
>> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure
>> and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now,
>> so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB])
>> and have them give it the once over.
>>
>>
>>
>> After having it for a day they reported back:
>>
>>
>>
>> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor
>> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is
>> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully
>> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using
>> Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are
>> deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn
>> timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At
>> 2000 rpm,        34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58
>> psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil
>> pressure control.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys
>> and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>>
>>
>>
>> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>>
>>
>>
>> AZBob
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

>>
>>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>


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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I don't think the Nissan has a good crash rating.

Randy


On 18/03/2022 4:37 AM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

Another vote for used engine. Used cars are insane right now. Couple grand
to install the 500 dollar motor and drive on. Otherwise buy a used nissan
sentra or toyota corolla with a stick and just pay the money.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:41 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm
come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let
it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came
in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do
so it sat for about three hours.

When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely
and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the
alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.

She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure
and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now,
so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB])
and have them give it the once over.



After having it for a day they reported back:



“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor
fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is
also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully
extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using
Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are
deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn
timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At
2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58
psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil
pressure control.”



Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys
and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.



We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.



Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?



AZBob
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Robert Massmann via Mercedes]

I bought a 2002 BMW 525i from a charity auction that wasn’t too far away, 
couldn’t inspect before purchase. Paid $900 for it, 600 for the car and 300 to 
the charity. Got it home and found that the engine had a coolant leak into the 
oil. Car had been sitting about 6 months, so the engine was toasted, still 
turned, cam was quite rusted too. Bought a running replacement engine for $600 
plus $100 for shipping. Engine was sold as running, when it entered the yard. 
Engine hasn’t missed a beat since I got it on the road. Yes it was an effort, 
but it was more a test to see what I could do and it has been a very 
comfortable ride. Have driven it about 45,000 mile since the engine swap over 
the last 5 years.

I believe I would do it again if I had too. Just finished the oil cooler seal 
repair on my 2012 ML350 Bluetec, which was a scary thing to start on my nicest 
car.

Bob Massmann
2012 ML350 BT 86K

From: Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 7:06 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: azbob...@gmail.com 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

I have not started doing the YouTubing for those tasks. Tonight I will watch a 
couple of videos. 

 


 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:01 PM
To: dan penoff.com via Mercedes
Cc: Randy Bennell
Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

 

What would it cost if you repaired it yourself?  Timing chain does not 

sound impossible. How hard is it to do the balance shaft?

If daughter does not love it, pass it on to junior?

 

Randy

 

 

 

On 17/03/2022 5:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

> I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play 
> here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just 
> isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And 
> that doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages.

>

> -D

>

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>

> <4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png>

>

> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

>

> From: dan penoff.com via Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>

> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM

> To: Mercedes Discussion List<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>

> Cc: dan penoff.com<mailto:d...@penoff.com>

> Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

>

> What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
> reference I would be working off of.

>

> -D

>

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
>  wrote:

>

> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
> in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
> in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she 
> shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat 
> for about three hours.

> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
> listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
> comes back in shut ‘er down.

> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
> have them give it the once over.

>

> After having it for a day they reported back:

>

> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope 
> measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating 
> consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing 
> components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm, 
>34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This 
> indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure 
> control.”

>

> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.

>

> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

>

> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something el

Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Another vote for used engine. Used cars are insane right now. Couple grand
to install the 500 dollar motor and drive on. Otherwise buy a used nissan
sentra or toyota corolla with a stick and just pay the money.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 3:41 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm
> come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let
> it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came
> in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do
> so it sat for about three hours.
>
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely
> and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the
> alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.
>
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure
> and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now,
> so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB])
> and have them give it the once over.
>
>
>
> After having it for a day they reported back:
>
>
>
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using
> Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are
> deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn
> timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At
> 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58
> psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil
> pressure control.”
>
>
>
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys
> and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>
>
>
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>
>
>
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>
>
>
> AZBob
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Timing *chain* on a VW 1.8l engine? I thought they were belts. Has that 
changed? Are you sure this shop knows what they are talking about?

VWs are notorious for timing belt failure if you exceed the change interval 
mileage. I've never heard of a VW engine with a timing chain, but honestly I 
have not kept up on them.


On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
> in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
> in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she 
> shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat 
> for about three hours.
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
> listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
> comes back in shut ‘er down.
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
> have them give it the once over.
>  
> After having it for a day they reported back:
>  
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope 
> measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating 
> consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing 
> components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm, 
>34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This 
> indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure 
> control.”
>  
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>  
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>  
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>  
> AZBob
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I had great luck buying a used '85 transmission from LKQ for my '83 wagon
12 years and 65K miles ago.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 10:07 PM G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Suggest you go shopping for a used engine, complete, with known mileage,
> from a wreck.
> I just did a search for "2014 Volkswagen Jetta 1.8 engine for sale" and it
> kicked up this..
>
> https://www.ebay.com/p/1284268414
>
> That one link bumped several into view, some below $500. All of them list
> the miles on the engine.
> So, I'd start there. Ship one in, pay a known mechanic to R&R engines...
> back on the road
> That is only one link, I'm sure there are many others if you go looking.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 5:21 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > I have a friend who has a 2013 Beetle with the same engine that has 92K
> on
> > the clock. It sounds like these VW 1.8L turbo engines are ticking time
> > bombs as they age. It seems to be OK right now, but once it hits 100K,
> who
> > knows. Maybe, she should unload it while the used car market is high, and
> > convertible season is nearly upon us which would help the value as well.
> > Kevin in Lexington, NC
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure
> alarm
> > come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then
> let
> > it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came
> > in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do
> > so it sat for about three hours.
> > > When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured
> > no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and
> > sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash
> > closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds
> amiss
> > or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.
> > > She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure
> > and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right
> now,
> > so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no
> MB])
> > and have them give it the once over.
> > >
> > > After having it for a day they reported back:
> > >
> > > “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor
> > fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is
> > also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully
> > extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using
> > Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are
> > deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn
> > timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi).
> At
> > 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58
> > psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper
> oil
> > pressure control.”
> > >
> > > Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW
> guys
> > and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
> > >
> > > We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
> > >
> > > Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> > >
> > > AZBob
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Suggest you go shopping for a used engine, complete, with known mileage,
from a wreck.
I just did a search for "2014 Volkswagen Jetta 1.8 engine for sale" and it
kicked up this..

https://www.ebay.com/p/1284268414

That one link bumped several into view, some below $500. All of them list
the miles on the engine.
So, I'd start there. Ship one in, pay a known mechanic to R&R engines...
back on the road
That is only one link, I'm sure there are many others if you go looking.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 5:21 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have a friend who has a 2013 Beetle with the same engine that has 92K on
> the clock. It sounds like these VW 1.8L turbo engines are ticking time
> bombs as they age. It seems to be OK right now, but once it hits 100K, who
> knows. Maybe, she should unload it while the used car market is high, and
> convertible season is nearly upon us which would help the value as well.
> Kevin in Lexington, NC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm
> come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let
> it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came
> in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do
> so it sat for about three hours.
> > When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured
> no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and
> sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash
> closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss
> or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.
> > She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure
> and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now,
> so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB])
> and have them give it the once over.
> >
> > After having it for a day they reported back:
> >
> > “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using
> Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are
> deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn
> timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At
> 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58
> psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil
> pressure control.”
> >
> > Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys
> and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
> >
> > We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
> >
> > Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> >
> > AZBob
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

All of which will use substantially more gas than the car she has now...

-Curt


On Thursday, March 17, 2022, 06:51:19 PM EDT, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
 wrote: 



Certified Used VW Tiguans, Subaru Outbacks, 250GLAs
 
She doesn’t want a huge payment. I’m not sure what huge is right now. Still in 
the preliminary stages. 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:46 PM
To: dan penoff.com via Mercedes
Cc: Randy Bennell
Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle
 
And, what would you buy to replace it? How much are you prepared to spend?
Unless you buy new, are you potentially trading one problem for another?
 
Randy
 
 
On 17/03/2022 5:42 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:
> What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
> reference I would be working off of.
>  
> -D
>  
> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>  
> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
> in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
> in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she 
> shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat 
> for about three hours.
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
> listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
> comes back in shut ‘er down.
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
> have them give it the once over.
>  
> After having it for a day they reported back:
>  
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope 
> measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating 
> consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing 
> components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm, 
>    34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This 
> indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure 
> control.”
>  
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>  
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>  
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>  
> AZBob
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com<http://www.okiebenz.com/>
>  
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>  
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>  
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>  
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Fix and keep. Car prices are stupid right now. 6th gen cars are pretty nice.

-Curt


 On Thursday, March 17, 2022, 06:41:15 PM EDT, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
 wrote: 


Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut 
it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for 
about three hours. 
When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
comes back in shut ‘er down. 
She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have 
them give it the once over.
 
After having it for a day they reported back:
 
“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. 
Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking 
a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches 
(spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank 
timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further 
indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil 
pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,    34 psi (spec is 
23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn 
counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”
 
Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
 
We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it. 
 
Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
 
AZBob 

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

You might got a problem, but not a $6,000 problem.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 6:48 PM Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM
> *To: *Mercedes Discussion List 
> *Cc: *dan penoff.com 
> *Subject: *Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle
>
>
>
> What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point
> of reference I would be working off of.
>
>
>
> -D
>
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm
> come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let
> it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came
> in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do
> so it sat for about three hours.
>
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely
> and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the
> alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.
>
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure
> and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now,
> so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB])
> and have them give it the once over.
>
>
>
> After having it for a day they reported back:
>
>
>
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using
> Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are
> deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn
> timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At
> 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58
> psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil
> pressure control.”
>
>
>
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys
> and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>
>
>
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>
>
>
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>
>
>
> AZBob
>
> ___
>
> http://www.okiebenz.com<http://www.okiebenz.com/>
>
>
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
> ___
>
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
>
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Are these the engines that are really sensitive to frequent oil changes, that 
is, if not done they tend to wear out or fail at a relatively early age?

When I was looking at Passats some years back I seem to recall that one of the 
engine models was predisposed to early death if not maintained to the absolute 
letter of the service manual.

-D

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 8:20 PM, Kevin Kraly via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have a friend who has a 2013 Beetle with the same engine that has 92K on 
> the clock. It sounds like these VW 1.8L turbo engines are ticking time bombs 
> as they age. It seems to be OK right now, but once it hits 100K, who knows. 
> Maybe, she should unload it while the used car market is high, and 
> convertible season is nearly upon us which would help the value as well.
> Kevin in Lexington, NC
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm 
>> come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let 
>> it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came 
>> in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so 
>> it sat for about three hours.
>> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
>> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
>> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely 
>> and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the 
>> alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.
>> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
>> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
>> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
>> have them give it the once over.
>> 
>> After having it for a day they reported back:
>> 
>> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
>> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
>> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
>> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using 
>> Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are 
>> deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn 
>> timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 
>> 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 
>> psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil 
>> pressure control.”
>> 
>> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
>> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>> 
>> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>> 
>> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>> 
>> AZBob
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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> 
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> 

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

I have a friend who has a 2013 Beetle with the same engine that has 92K on the 
clock. It sounds like these VW 1.8L turbo engines are ticking time bombs as 
they age. It seems to be OK right now, but once it hits 100K, who knows. Maybe, 
she should unload it while the used car market is high, and convertible season 
is nearly upon us which would help the value as well.
Kevin in Lexington, NC

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
> in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
> in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she 
> shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat 
> for about three hours.
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
> listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
> comes back in shut ‘er down.
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
> have them give it the once over.
>  
> After having it for a day they reported back:
>  
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope 
> measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating 
> consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing 
> components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm, 
>34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This 
> indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure 
> control.”
>  
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>  
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>  
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>  
> AZBob
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

True 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:06 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Too bad Kaleb is too far away. Sounds like a good car for Regina. Oil 
> pressure and timing chain would be irrelevant, it would get destroyed before 
> the engine could grenade.
> 
> -D
> 
> On Mar 17, 2022, at 7:00 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> 
> What would it cost if you repaired it yourself?  Timing chain does not sound 
> impossible. How hard is it to do the balance shaft?
> If daughter does not love it, pass it on to junior?
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> 
> On 17/03/2022 5:55 PM, dan penoff.com<http://penoff.com/> via Mercedes wrote:
> I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play 
> here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just 
> isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And 
> that doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages.
> 
> -D
> 
> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
>  wrote:
> 
> <4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png>
> 
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 
> From: dan penoff.com<http://penoff.com/> via 
> Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: dan penoff.com<http://penoff.com/><mailto:d...@penoff.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle
> 
> What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
> reference I would be working off of.
> 
> -D
> 
> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
>  wrote:
> 
> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
> in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
> in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she 
> shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat 
> for about three hours.
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
> listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
> comes back in shut ‘er down.
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
> have them give it the once over.
> 
> After having it for a day they reported back:
> 
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope 
> measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating 
> consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing 
> components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm, 
>34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This 
> indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure 
> control.”
> 
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
> 
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
> 
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
> 
> AZBob
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com<http://www.okiebenz.com/>
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> To 

Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

I have not started doing the YouTubing for those tasks. Tonight I will watch a couple of videos.    Sent from Mail for Windows From: Randy Bennell via MercedesSent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:01 PMTo: dan penoff.com via MercedesCc: Randy BennellSubject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle What would it cost if you repaired it yourself?  Timing chain does not sound impossible. How hard is it to do the balance shaft?If daughter does not love it, pass it on to junior? Randy   On 17/03/2022 5:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:> I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And that doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages.> > -D> > On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes > wrote:> > <4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png>> > Sent from Mail for Windows> > From: dan penoff.com via Mercedes> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM> To: Mercedes Discussion List> Cc: dan penoff.com> Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle> > What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of reference I would be working off of.> > -D> > On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes > wrote:> > Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for about three hours.> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have them give it the once over.> > After having it for a day they reported back:> > “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,    34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”> > Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.> > We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.> > Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?> > AZBob> ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> > ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> > > ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> > > ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>   ___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Too bad Kaleb is too far away. Sounds like a good car for Regina. Oil pressure 
and timing chain would be irrelevant, it would get destroyed before the engine 
could grenade.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 7:00 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

What would it cost if you repaired it yourself?  Timing chain does not sound 
impossible. How hard is it to do the balance shaft?
If daughter does not love it, pass it on to junior?

Randy



On 17/03/2022 5:55 PM, dan penoff.com<http://penoff.com/> via Mercedes wrote:
I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play 
here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just 
isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And that 
doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
 wrote:

<4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png>

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: dan penoff.com<http://penoff.com/> via 
Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: dan penoff.com<http://penoff.com/><mailto:d...@penoff.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
reference I would be working off of.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
 wrote:

Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut 
it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for 
about three hours.
When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
comes back in shut ‘er down.
She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have 
them give it the once over.

After having it for a day they reported back:

“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. 
Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking 
a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches 
(spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank 
timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further 
indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil 
pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 
23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn 
counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”

Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
they said it looks/sounds reasonable.

We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?

AZBob
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

What would it cost if you repaired it yourself?  Timing chain does not 
sound impossible. How hard is it to do the balance shaft?

If daughter does not love it, pass it on to junior?

Randy



On 17/03/2022 5:55 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play 
here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just 
isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And that 
doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

<4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png>

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: dan penoff.com via Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: dan penoff.com<mailto:d...@penoff.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
reference I would be working off of.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
 wrote:

Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut 
it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for 
about three hours.
When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
comes back in shut ‘er down.
She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have 
them give it the once over.

After having it for a day they reported back:

“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. 
Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking 
a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches 
(spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank 
timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further 
indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil 
pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 
23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn 
counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”

Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
they said it looks/sounds reasonable.

We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?

AZBob
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

That reads like a transcript of the conversation I had with the daughter. Sent from Mail for Windows From: dan penoff.com via MercedesSent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:55 PMTo: Mercedes Discussion ListCc: dan penoff.comSubject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And that doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages. -D On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes > wrote: <4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png> Sent from Mail for Windows From: dan penoff.com via MercedesSent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PMTo: Mercedes Discussion ListCc: dan penoff.comSubject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of reference I would be working off of. -D On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes > wrote: Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for about three hours.When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have them give it the once over. After having it for a day they reported back: “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,    34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.” Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and they said it looks/sounds reasonable. We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it. Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else? AZBob___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  ___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  ___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

I would unload it if it were me. However, there are many variables in play 
here, so that’s simply based on my situation. A $6k repair on an $8k car just 
isn’t a good spend unless you’re prepared to drive it into the ground. And that 
doesn’t consider any other potential repairs it might need as it ages.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:47 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

<4209759D50B8452CBC599ADAFCFF910E.png>

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: dan penoff.com via Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: dan penoff.com<mailto:d...@penoff.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
reference I would be working off of.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com><mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>
 wrote:

Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut 
it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for 
about three hours.
When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
comes back in shut ‘er down.
She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have 
them give it the once over.

After having it for a day they reported back:

“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. 
Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking 
a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches 
(spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank 
timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further 
indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil 
pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 
23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn 
counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”

Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
they said it looks/sounds reasonable.

We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?

AZBob
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Certified Used VW Tiguans, Subaru Outbacks, 250GLAs She doesn’t want a huge payment. I’m not sure what huge is right now. Still in the preliminary stages.  Sent from Mail for Windows From: Randy Bennell via MercedesSent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:46 PMTo: dan penoff.com via MercedesCc: Randy BennellSubject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle And, what would you buy to replace it? How much are you prepared to spend?Unless you buy new, are you potentially trading one problem for another? Randy  On 17/03/2022 5:42 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:> What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of reference I would be working off of.> > -D> > On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes > wrote:> > Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for about three hours.> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have them give it the once over.> > After having it for a day they reported back:> > “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,    34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”> > Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and they said it looks/sounds reasonable.> > We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.> > Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?> > AZBob> ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com> > ___> http://www.okiebenz.com> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>   ___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  

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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

 Sent from Mail for Windows From: dan penoff.com via MercedesSent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 3:43 PMTo: Mercedes Discussion ListCc: dan penoff.comSubject: Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of reference I would be working off of. -D On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes > wrote: Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for about three hours.When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down.She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have them give it the once over. After having it for a day they reported back: “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,    34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.” Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and they said it looks/sounds reasonable. We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it. Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else? AZBob___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com  ___
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

And, what would you buy to replace it? How much are you prepared to spend?
Unless you buy new, are you potentially trading one problem for another?

Randy


On 17/03/2022 5:42 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote:

What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
reference I would be working off of.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut 
it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for 
about three hours.
When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
comes back in shut ‘er down.
She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have 
them give it the once over.

After having it for a day they reported back:

“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. 
Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking 
a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches 
(spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank 
timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further 
indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil 
pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 
23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn 
counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”

Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
they said it looks/sounds reasonable.

We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?

AZBob
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Take the bulb out of the idiot light and sale it on fakebook. NO LOBALLERS I 
KNOW WHAT I GOT 

--FT
Sent from iFōn

> On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:41 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
> in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
> in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she 
> shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat 
> for about three hours.
> When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
> puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
> normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
> listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
> comes back in shut ‘er down.
> She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
> start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
> took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and 
> have them give it the once over.
>  
> After having it for a day they reported back:
>  
> “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor 
> fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is 
> also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully 
> extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope 
> measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating 
> consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing 
> components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm, 
>34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This 
> indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure 
> control.”
>  
> Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
> they said it looks/sounds reasonable.
>  
> We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.
>  
> Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?
>  
> AZBob
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> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

What’s the car worth without considering the repair cost? That’s the point of 
reference I would be working off of.

-D

On Mar 17, 2022, at 6:40 PM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come 
in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle 
in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut 
it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for 
about three hours.
When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no 
puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded 
normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and 
listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm 
comes back in shut ‘er down.
She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and 
start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I 
took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have 
them give it the once over.

After having it for a day they reported back:

“One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. 
Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking 
a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches 
(spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank 
timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further 
indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil 
pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,34 psi (spec is 
23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn 
counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.”

Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and 
they said it looks/sounds reasonable.

We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.

Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else?

AZBob
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[MBZ] $6K Repair or Different Vehicle

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Youngest’s 2014 Jetta, 1.8 T, 121K miles, had the red oil pressure alarm come in the other day after she had driven it about ten miles and then let it idle in a parking lot for about ten minutes. As soon as the alarm came in, she shut it off and called me. At that point she had her things to do so it sat for about three hours. When she came back out she checked the oil level (perfect) and ensured no puddles were beneath it. She started the engine and it started and sounded normal with no oil alarm light in. I told her to monitor the dash closely and listen carefully as she drove home and if anything sounds amiss or the alarm comes back in shut ‘er down. She made it home without mishap. I was going to check the oil  pressure and start troubleshooting but I have way too much stuff going on right now, so I took it down to a highly respected German shop (BMW, Mini, VW [no MB]) and have them give it the once over. After having it for a day they reported back: “One scanned fault for low oil pressure plausibility and airmass sensor fault. Smoke test reveals leak at upper timing cover gasket. Clamshell is also leaking a bit of oil. Spool valve okay. Timing chain tensioner fully extended 9 notches (spec is no more than 7 notches extended). Using Picoscope measured cam/crank timing correlation and found camshafts are deviating consistently further indicating timing chain stretch and worn timing components. At idle, oil pressure is 22 psi (spec is 17-29 psi). At 2000 rpm,    34 psi (spec is 23-31). At 3700 rpm, 34 psi (spec 43-58 psi). This indicated worn counter-balance shaft leading to the improper oil pressure control.” Bottom line, $6.25K repair. I bounced this off of a couple other VW guys and they said it looks/sounds reasonable. We’ve had the car since new. No deep-seated emotional attachment to it.  Get it fixed or sneakily trade it in on something else? AZBob 

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