Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Hendrik & Fay]

One finds it by ggling, there is a couple of pdf's floating around 
the net, regarding the 722.3/4 boxes.
Seeing as I am trying to get my Mum's 722.4 to work properly I have 
looked at just about all of them, I have the box working well up until 
4th, at which stage it likes to slip in gear under light throttle but 
will engage under heavy throttle, I have the suspicion that the K2 
clutch is worn or that an O ring is leaking, letting the pressure off 
the clutches. I have another 722.4 box that I can chuck in there.


Another possibility for not shifting past 2nd is that the valve body has 
a sticking valve, perhaps the K1 valve?

The K1 valves can be gotten at with the valve body on the box.
The govenor is on the side of the box behind the big round plate, you 
should be able to remove it without pullong the box out.

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/tranny_722_repair.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/tranny_722_Mitchell.pdf

Hendrik
who knows a bit more about the mysteries of MB auto boxes now

OK Don wrote:

Where does one find documentation on this  governor? It's a 722.4. Other
than changing the fluid and R&R, I have no experience working on auto
trannys.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Fmiser  wrote:

  

OK Don wrote:
  
It still shifts

very nicely from first to second, but no further. The
kick-down switch feels like it is operating normally, clicks
nicely, etc. I don't see any worn or shorted wires.
  

I have not been following this thread, so sorry if I'm out of
date...

Upshift is typically heavily dependent on the governor.  I have
not had reason to fiddle with the governor on a Mercedes - and I
don't have anything newer than a W123,  but often the governor
is accessible without removing the pan and is pretty easy to
pull out and clean.

For what it's worth. *weak smile*

--   Philip







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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

Where does one find documentation on this  governor? It's a 722.4. Other
than changing the fluid and R&R, I have no experience working on auto
trannys.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Fmiser  wrote:

> > OK Don wrote:
>
> > It still shifts
> > very nicely from first to second, but no further. The
> > kick-down switch feels like it is operating normally, clicks
> > nicely, etc. I don't see any worn or shorted wires.
>
> I have not been following this thread, so sorry if I'm out of
> date...
>
> Upshift is typically heavily dependent on the governor.  I have
> not had reason to fiddle with the governor on a Mercedes - and I
> don't have anything newer than a W123,  but often the governor
> is accessible without removing the pan and is pretty easy to
> pull out and clean.
>
> For what it's worth. *weak smile*
>
> --   Philip
>
>
>
-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300 <1992300>D 2.5T
1990 300 <1990300>D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Larry]

FYI - Just noticed on the Sun Valley website, they suggest 24k fluid 
changes - MB says 30K.  Wonder why?


Also, the warranty is 2 yr. limited - with repairs done at the Sun Valley Ca 
facility.   Won't be much help since I'm in Va.  I bet shipping would exceed 
the cost of a new AT!  ;-^


LarryT
91 300D

-Original Message- 
From: OK Don

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:24 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

Update - I found that I had a new filter/gasket set (not Mann), so changed
it. The old one did not appear to be collapsed, but I didn't cut open the
flat can to check the innerds.
This did not change the behavior. It still shifts very nicely from first to
second, but no further. The kick-down switch feels like it is operating
normally, clicks nicely, etc. I don't see any worn or shorted wires. I
haven't checked everything with the multimeter yet, but don't see anything
external that looks likely.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:


Get a Mann and a gasket on the way from Q, swap em and see what happens.
 A lot cheaper than other options.





--
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Larry]

Hello Don,
I assume you've checked all of the vacuum lines to make sure none have 
become disconnected/damaged?


If it comes down to it, I highly recommend the ATs Rusty sells - mine has 
been perfect - like a brand new AT - I spoke with Rusty about his history 
with the rebuilder - he said he has sold thousands over the years and had 
trouble with 3 of them  - 2 were installer problems and the 3rd was 
something easily fixed on the exterior of the AT.   Sun Valley Mercedes AT 
Rebuilders is who Rusty buys from - don't know if they answer phone/email 
questions but your problem seems pretty specific so perhaps they could tell 
you what controls the 3-4 upshift ?Don't know for sure, but they may 
respond better to questions from Rusty


Good Luck -
LarryT
91 300D 2.5T

-Original Message- 
From: OK Don

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:24 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

Update - I found that I had a new filter/gasket set (not Mann), so changed
it. The old one did not appear to be collapsed, but I didn't cut open the
flat can to check the innerds.
This did not change the behavior. It still shifts very nicely from first to
second, but no further. The kick-down switch feels like it is operating
normally, clicks nicely, etc. I don't see any worn or shorted wires. I
haven't checked everything with the multimeter yet, but don't see anything
external that looks likely.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:


Get a Mann and a gasket on the way from Q, swap em and see what happens.
 A lot cheaper than other options.





--
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Fmiser]

> OK Don wrote:

> It still shifts
> very nicely from first to second, but no further. The
> kick-down switch feels like it is operating normally, clicks
> nicely, etc. I don't see any worn or shorted wires.

I have not been following this thread, so sorry if I'm out of
date...

Upshift is typically heavily dependent on the governor.  I have
not had reason to fiddle with the governor on a Mercedes - and I
don't have anything newer than a W123,  but often the governor
is accessible without removing the pan and is pretty easy to
pull out and clean.

For what it's worth. *weak smile*

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

Update - I found that I had a new filter/gasket set (not Mann), so changed
it. The old one did not appear to be collapsed, but I didn't cut open the
flat can to check the innerds.
This did not change the behavior. It still shifts very nicely from first to
second, but no further. The kick-down switch feels like it is operating
normally, clicks nicely, etc. I don't see any worn or shorted wires. I
haven't checked everything with the multimeter yet, but don't see anything
external that looks likely.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Get a Mann and a gasket on the way from Q, swap em and see what happens.
>  A lot cheaper than other options.
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Dieselhead]

Get a Mann and a gasket on the way from Q, swap em and see what 
happens.  A lot cheaper than other options.


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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

Yup - it was shrink wrapped with a gasket. I think I have another one on
hand --- h.

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those come
> in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately. If you got
> the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket and filter, that
> could be your problem.
>
> There is something different about the 124 transmission (maybe only Diesel
> 124s) that can cause filters other than Mann to collapse.  The symptoms are
> as you describe.  OK, then you stop and start again and it won't get above
> 2nd.  It is a much easier fix than the other options.
>
> When I called sunValley, and described my situation, they said to change
> the filter to a Mann and use only Mann.  They know more about MB
> transmissions than anyone in Nord Amerka, so I trust them.  In my case, it
> solved the problem.
>
> I use only Mann in a 124.  The others are fine in 123, 126, 107 etc. I
> don't know if this idiosyncrasy followed into the 210 or 211 chassis.  I
> don't know if it is Diesel only.  For me, it is not a big deal.  Just order
> Mann and a gasket from Q.
>
>
>
>


-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Dieselhead]

Remember the James Bond movies?  Q was the guy who gave Bond the 
gizmos to do his job.   In this case, Q is they guy who provides 
parts and tools to keep our old MBs running.


Q is Rusty, = da man = the guy with all the parts at the best prices, 
provided you talk to him and don't go by the website.  8007415252


Who is Q?  I bought a rebuilt AT from SunValley (thru Rusty) last 
year - it's getting close to filter change time.


Thanks -

LarryT
91 300D


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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[WILTON]

Rusty.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Larry" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny


Who is Q?  I bought a rebuilt AT from SunValley (thru Rusty) last year - 
it's getting close to filter change time.


Thanks -

LarryT
91 300D

-Original Message- 
From: Dieselhead

Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 8:54 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those
come in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately.
If you got the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket
and filter, that could be your problem.

There is something different about the 124 transmission (maybe only
Diesel 124s) that can cause filters other than Mann to collapse.  The
symptoms are as you describe.  OK, then you stop and start again and
it won't get above 2nd.  It is a much easier fix than the other
options.

When I called sunValley, and described my situation, they said to
change the filter to a Mann and use only Mann.  They know more about
MB transmissions than anyone in Nord Amerka, so I trust them.  In my
case, it solved the problem.

I use only Mann in a 124.  The others are fine in 123, 126, 107 etc.
I don't know if this idiosyncrasy followed into the 210 or 211
chassis.  I don't know if it is Diesel only.  For me, it is not a big
deal.  Just order Mann and a gasket from Q.


[SNIP] 



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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Larry]

Who is Q?  I bought a rebuilt AT from SunValley (thru Rusty) last year - 
it's getting close to filter change time.


Thanks -

LarryT
91 300D

-Original Message- 
From: Dieselhead

Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 8:54 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those
come in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately.
If you got the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket
and filter, that could be your problem.

There is something different about the 124 transmission (maybe only
Diesel 124s) that can cause filters other than Mann to collapse.  The
symptoms are as you describe.  OK, then you stop and start again and
it won't get above 2nd.  It is a much easier fix than the other
options.

When I called sunValley, and described my situation, they said to
change the filter to a Mann and use only Mann.  They know more about
MB transmissions than anyone in Nord Amerka, so I trust them.  In my
case, it solved the problem.

I use only Mann in a 124.  The others are fine in 123, 126, 107 etc.
I don't know if this idiosyncrasy followed into the 210 or 211
chassis.  I don't know if it is Diesel only.  For me, it is not a big
deal.  Just order Mann and a gasket from Q.


[SNIP] 



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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Dieselhead]

Yep,  I have used the elring kits on everything else, and will 
continue to do so.




Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:


 Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those
 come in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately. If
 you got the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket and
 filter, that could be your problem.


Interesting.  For my W116, I ordered the filter/gasket kit, it came
shrink-wrapped to a card with the "Elring" name on it.  The gasket
didn't fit the pan very well and I eventually had to stick it on with
Permatex and then weight it down until it set up enough to hold while I
got the pan in position.  Otherwise the gasket would pop off before I
got the pan seated.  It was like it was just slightly too small, but
Rusty said it was OEM so I just dismissed it off as a one-off problem.

I may try the Mann/separate gasket next time around.

Allan
--
1983 300D
1979 300SD


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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Allan Streib]

Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> writes:

> Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those
> come in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately. If
> you got the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket and
> filter, that could be your problem.

Interesting.  For my W116, I ordered the filter/gasket kit, it came
shrink-wrapped to a card with the "Elring" name on it.  The gasket
didn't fit the pan very well and I eventually had to stick it on with
Permatex and then weight it down until it set up enough to hold while I
got the pan in position.  Otherwise the gasket would pop off before I
got the pan seated.  It was like it was just slightly too small, but
Rusty said it was OEM so I just dismissed it off as a one-off problem.

I may try the Mann/separate gasket next time around.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Dieselhead]

Ja, but in that case it will shift into 3 and 4.  It winds out 
further before it shifts because the cable position is wrong for 
normal.  It will shift unexpectedly from 4 to 3.  Often won't get 
into 4th unless you back off the throttle.



A restricted fuel filter can also cause shifting problems, but you'd
probably notice having to push down farther on the accelerator more than
before as well.



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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Brian Toscano]

A restricted fuel filter can also cause shifting problems, but you'd
probably notice having to push down farther on the accelerator more than
before as well.


On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those come
> in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately. If you got
> the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket and filter, that
> could be your problem.
>
> There is something different about the 124 transmission (maybe only Diesel
> 124s) that can cause filters other than Mann to collapse.  The symptoms are
> as you describe.  OK, then you stop and start again and it won't get above
> 2nd.  It is a much easier fix than the other options.
>
> When I called sunValley, and described my situation, they said to change
> the filter to a Mann and use only Mann.  They know more about MB
> transmissions than anyone in Nord Amerka, so I trust them.  In my case, it
> solved the problem.
>
> I use only Mann in a 124.  The others are fine in 123, 126, 107 etc. I
> don't know if this idiosyncrasy followed into the 210 or 211 chassis.  I
> don't know if it is Diesel only.  For me, it is not a big deal.  Just order
> Mann and a gasket from Q.
>
>
>
>  The one from Rusty - otherwise, no. Could be time for another change?
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  > Remember what kind for filter you put in the trans?
>>  >
>>
>
> __**_
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Dieselhead]

Q sells at least 2.  For a 124, you need to ask for the Mann.  Those 
come in a yellow box, and you need to order the gasket separately. 
If you got the kit that was shrink wrapped to the card with gasket 
and filter, that could be your problem.


There is something different about the 124 transmission (maybe only 
Diesel 124s) that can cause filters other than Mann to collapse.  The 
symptoms are as you describe.  OK, then you stop and start again and 
it won't get above 2nd.  It is a much easier fix than the other 
options.


When I called sunValley, and described my situation, they said to 
change the filter to a Mann and use only Mann.  They know more about 
MB transmissions than anyone in Nord Amerka, so I trust them.  In my 
case, it solved the problem.


I use only Mann in a 124.  The others are fine in 123, 126, 107 etc. 
I don't know if this idiosyncrasy followed into the 210 or 211 
chassis.  I don't know if it is Diesel only.  For me, it is not a big 
deal.  Just order Mann and a gasket from Q.




The one from Rusty - otherwise, no. Could be time for another change?

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

 > Remember what kind for filter you put in the trans?
 >


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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

The one from Rusty - otherwise, no. Could be time for another change?

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Remember what kind for filter you put in the trans?
>
>
>
>  Well, the switch is not stuck, carpet was not interfering with it. The car
>> only has first and second gear, doesn't get to third.
>>
>> The interesting part is that it used to leave a black smoke cloud large
>> enough to obscure the car at and above 4000 rpm. Now it's smokeless, and
>> seems to accelerate atleast as good as it did before. It will red-line at
>> the proper speed in second.
>> How can these be related?
>>
>> Third new development is that I hear a roaring - kind of like the fan was
>> directly connected, but the clutch seems to be working fine.
>>
>> I'm going to crawl under it and look for a short in the wiring from the
>> kick-down switch, examine vacuum hoes, linkages, etc.
>>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Dieselhead]

Remember what kind for filter you put in the trans?



Well, the switch is not stuck, carpet was not interfering with it. The car
only has first and second gear, doesn't get to third.

The interesting part is that it used to leave a black smoke cloud large
enough to obscure the car at and above 4000 rpm. Now it's smokeless, and
seems to accelerate atleast as good as it did before. It will red-line at
the proper speed in second.
How can these be related?

Third new development is that I hear a roaring - kind of like the fan was
directly connected, but the clutch seems to be working fine.

I'm going to crawl under it and look for a short in the wiring from the
kick-down switch, examine vacuum hoes, linkages, etc.


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Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

Well, the switch is not stuck, carpet was not interfering with it. The car
only has first and second gear, doesn't get to third.

The interesting part is that it used to leave a black smoke cloud large
enough to obscure the car at and above 4000 rpm. Now it's smokeless, and
seems to accelerate atleast as good as it did before. It will red-line at
the proper speed in second.
How can these be related?

Third new development is that I hear a roaring - kind of like the fan was
directly connected, but the clutch seems to be working fine.

I'm going to crawl under it and look for a short in the wiring from the
kick-down switch, examine vacuum hoes, linkages, etc.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
>
>> Our son borrowed the low mileage 124 (under 300K), and brought it back
>>> because it won't shift from third to fourth. Fluid level is OK. Where do
>>> I
>>> start looking for the problem? We've not had any trouble with the tranny
>>> since I bought it from Snook ---
>>>
>>
>> Kickdown switch stuck?  Check it, and the carpet.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> 2001 ML320
> 1992 300D 2.5T
> 1990 300D 2.5T
> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
>
>


-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

Good suggestion - I'm sure he "drives it like he stole it", just as he does
his 190D.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Jim Cathey  wrote:

> Our son borrowed the low mileage 124 (under 300K), and brought it back
>> because it won't shift from third to fourth. Fluid level is OK. Where do I
>> start looking for the problem? We've not had any trouble with the tranny
>> since I bought it from Snook ---
>>
>
> Kickdown switch stuck?  Check it, and the carpet.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
>
> __**_
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[Jim Cathey]

Our son borrowed the low mileage 124 (under 300K), and brought it back
because it won't shift from third to fourth. Fluid level is OK. Where 
do I
start looking for the problem? We've not had any trouble with the 
tranny

since I bought it from Snook ---


Kickdown switch stuck?  Check it, and the carpet.

-- Jim



___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

[MBZ] '90 300D 2.5t tranny

[OK Don]

Our son borrowed the low mileage 124 (under 300K), and brought it back
because it won't shift from third to fourth. Fluid level is OK. Where do I
start looking for the problem? We've not had any trouble with the tranny
since I bought it from Snook ---
Merry Christmas.

-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com