[MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
gremlins in the 240D (81)


The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas) 
not designed by MB/Bosch


These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
grounds behind the cluster.


It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I 
would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.


Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits in 
the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.


I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does not 
appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.




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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a 
newer vehicle.


RB

On 21/03/2017 4:35 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
gremlins in the 240D (81)


The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas) 
not designed by MB/Bosch


These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
grounds behind the cluster.


It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I 
would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.


Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits 
in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.


I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does 
not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.




___




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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top 
row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, all 
have no juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for 
headlights and tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights 
work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital 
meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even 
numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.


Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.

That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a 
closed circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be 
made by wiggling the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key 
counterclockwise.


The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 4:51 PM
Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a 
newer vehicle.


RB




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Curley McLain 
March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
gremlins in the 240D (81)


The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas) 
not designed by MB/Bosch


These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
grounds behind the cluster.


It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I 
would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.


Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits 
in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.


I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does 
not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.





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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Pull all those fuses that don't have power, repeat check for voltage on both 
sides of each fuse holder.  Check for short to ground wherever there is no 
power.  Report back.

If there is no power with the fuses pulled, then you need to check the power 
feed to the fuse box.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On March 21, 2017 6:20:24 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top 
>row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side,
>all 
>have no juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for
>
>headlights and tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights 
>work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital 
>meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even 
>numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.
>
>Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.
>
>That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a 
>closed circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be 
>made by wiggling the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key 
>counterclockwise.
>
>The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.
>
>> Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>> March 21, 2017 at 4:51 PM
>> Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a 
>> newer vehicle.
>>
>> RB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Curley McLain 
>> March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
>> Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
>> gremlins in the 240D (81)
>>
>> The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas)
>
>> not designed by MB/Bosch
>>
>> These circuits all went out at the same time:
>> Gas gauge
>> temp gauge
>> turn signals (4 ways work)
>> both window circuits
>> heater blower
>>
>> Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
>> grounds behind the cluster.
>>
>> It resulted in no change.
>>
>> I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good,
>I 
>> would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.
>>
>> Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits 
>> in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.
>>
>> I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
>> thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does 
>> not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Try using a test light instead of a meter. Sometimes, a meter is 
sensitive enough to read proper voltage but there is not enough current 
to run anything.
I had that issue with a windshield washer pump in a Mercury Sable. It 
was an intermittent problem with the car. Sometimes no washer fluid 
would pump.
I traced the power back to the pump and it had good voltage so I assumed 
the pump had gone bad. Got a new one and installed it and it did not 
work either.
I mentioned it to my b-in-l who is a mechanic and he was the one who 
said not to use a meter on things like that. He said to use a test light 
and assume the voltage was good if the light was nice and bright. I 
started tracing wires again and the light would not come on down at the 
pump. There was  a relay in the fuse box under the hood that was 
involved.  After the relay there was no light but before it there was. 
There were 2 relays the same in the box so I swapped them and the pump 
worked. But so did the circuit that I had swapped the "bad" on into. I 
pulled the thing out and pushed it back in a couple of times and 
everything was back to normal. Contacts on the relay were just not 
making good contact I guess. No further problem with the circuits on 
either of those relays for the rest of the time we had the vehicle.


RB

On 21/03/2017 5:20 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top 
row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, 
all have no juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them 
are for headlights and tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and 
taillights work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a 
good digital meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  
Bottom fuses (Even numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 
12.13V.


Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.

That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a 
closed circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be 
made by wiggling the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key 
counterclockwise.


The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 4:51 PM
Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a 
newer vehicle.


RB




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Curley McLain 
March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
gremlins in the 240D (81)


The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas) 
not designed by MB/Bosch


These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
grounds behind the cluster.


It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, 
I would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.


Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits 
in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.


I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere. It does 
not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.





___




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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Many fuses are downstream of switches and  get power only when certain
switch configurations are set.  F1, for example should only get power when
the light switch in park or headlight OR with the light switch in left or
right standing AND the ignition switch in off or acc.  

You really need to look at pp 104-105 (power distribution) of the ETM and
identify specific circuits that fail to get power even with the switches set
right.  Power or no-power at any fuse doesn't indicate anything unless you
know the switch settings.

Basically, ALL of the power (except starter) comes into the light switch
first and most of it is fed from there to the ignition switch via two wires.
But there is also one wire from the light switch hot feed to the fuse box
fuses 2 and (I think) 6 that should be powered at all times; this wire it
also powers the windows through a relay.  Fuse 2 is supposed to power turn
signals (among many other things).  The two (a and b) window fuses should
only be powered if the window relay is powered through fuse 12 (ignition
switch in run or start).

Hope this helps.

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Curley McLain via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:20 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins
> 
> Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top
> row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, all
have no
> juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for headlights
and
> tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights
> work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital
> meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even
> numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.
> 
> Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.
> 
> That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a closed
> circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be made by
wiggling
> the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key counterclockwise.
> 
> The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.
> 
> > Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> March 21,
> > 2017 at 4:51 PM Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole
> > lot worse on a newer vehicle.
> >
> > RB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com> March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
> > Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical
> > gremlins in the 240D (81)
> >
> > The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas)
> > not designed by MB/Bosch
> >
> > These circuits all went out at the same time:
> > Gas gauge
> > temp gauge
> > turn signals (4 ways work)
> > both window circuits
> > heater blower
> >
> > Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis
> > grounds behind the cluster.
> >
> > It resulted in no change.
> >
> > I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I
> > would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.
> >
> > Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits
> > in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.
> >
> > I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my
> > thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does
> > not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.
> >
> >
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Correction:  " and (I think) 6" should read "and fuse c".  

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 8:00 PM
> To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' 
> Cc: Scott Ritchey 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins
> 
> Many fuses are downstream of switches and  get power only when certain
> switch configurations are set.  F1, for example should only get power when
the
> light switch in park or headlight OR with the light switch in left or
right standing
> AND the ignition switch in off or acc.
> 
> You really need to look at pp 104-105 (power distribution) of the ETM and
> identify specific circuits that fail to get power even with the switches
set right.
> Power or no-power at any fuse doesn't indicate anything unless you know
the
> switch settings.
> 
> Basically, ALL of the power (except starter) comes into the light switch
first and
> most of it is fed from there to the ignition switch via two wires.
> But there is also one wire from the light switch hot feed to the fuse box
fuses 2
> and (I think) 6 that should be powered at all times; this wire it also
powers the
> windows through a relay.  Fuse 2 is supposed to power turn signals (among
> many other things).  The two (a and b) window fuses should only be powered
> if the window relay is powered through fuse 12 (ignition switch in run or
start).
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
> > Curley McLain via Mercedes
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:20 PM
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> > Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins
> >
> > Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top
> > row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side,
> > all
> have no
> > juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for
> > headlights
> and
> > tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights
> > work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital
> > meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even
> > numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.
> >
> > Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.
> >
> > That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a
> > closed circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be
> > made by
> wiggling
> > the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key counterclockwise.
> >
> > The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.
> >
> > > Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> March 21,
> > > 2017 at 4:51 PM Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole
> > > lot worse on a newer vehicle.
> > >
> > > RB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com> March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
> > > Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical
> > > gremlins in the 240D (81)
> > >
> > > The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness
> > > (Lucas) not designed by MB/Bosch
> > >
> > > These circuits all went out at the same time:
> > > Gas gauge
> > > temp gauge
> > > turn signals (4 ways work)
> > > both window circuits
> > > heater blower
> > >
> > > Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis
> > > grounds behind the cluster.
> > >
> > > It resulted in no change.
> > >
> > > I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good,
> > > I would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.
> > >
> > > Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits
> > > in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.
> > >
> > > I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my
> > > thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It do

Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Check the connectors on the bus bar at the top of the right fender under the 
hood. I forget what all feeds from there. Loose or corroded connectors are 
unlikely, but you've checked everything else.
Also, the ignition switch module on the back of the steering lock assembly has 
a number of wires going to it and several multiple contacts. It's a complex 
switch, and considering how many things it feeds, could conceivably be the 
problem. Supposedly you can change it out from up above the drivers footwell, 
but it looks pretty difficult getting to it and switching the wires. I took out 
the steering wheel locking unit/key tumbler on which the switch is mounted to 
change it, and that was a PIA since MB designed it to thwart thieves.
~~
Curley wrote:
> >Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top 
> >row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side,
> >all 
> >have no juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for
> >
> >headlights and tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights 
> >work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital 
> >meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even 
> >numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.
> >
> >Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.
> >
> >That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a 
> >closed circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be 
> >made by wiggling the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key 
> >counterclockwise.
> >
> >The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.
> >
> >> Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
> >> March 21, 2017 at 4:51 PM
> >> Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a 
> >> newer vehicle.
> >>
> >> RB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> Curley McLain 
> >> March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
> >> Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
> >> gremlins in the 240D (81)
> >>
> >> The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas)
> >
> >> not designed by MB/Bosch
> >>
> >> These circuits all went out at the same time:
> >> Gas gauge
> >> temp gauge
> >> turn signals (4 ways work)
> >> both window circuits
> >> heater blower
> >>
> >> Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
> >> grounds behind the cluster.
> >>
> >> It resulted in no change.
> >>
> >> I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good,
> >I 
> >> would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.
> >>
> >> Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits 
> >> in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.
> >>
> >> I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
> >> thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does 
> >> not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >___
> >http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> >To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> >To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

The switch went bad on this car several (15?) years ago.  The 
replacement did NOT look as robust as the original.  It is not that bad 
to change if you are young and supple. Key  in the on position, and the 
plug pulls out.  3 screws and the switch is in your hand.


I have had one light switch go bad in 40 years and 15-20 cars.  I think 
that was on a 62 car.


I also replaced the big german switch on an Erka spiral mixer  (about 10 
HP)  It is about 4" dia and 6" long with all wires held on with screws.  
Takes a while to change all them!



archer75--- via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 8:34 PM
Check the connectors on the bus bar at the top of the right fender 
under the hood. I forget what all feeds from there. Loose or corroded 
connectors are unlikely, but you've checked everything else.
Also, the ignition switch module on the back of the steering lock 
assembly has a number of wires going to it and several multiple 
contacts. It's a complex switch, and considering how many things it 
feeds, could conceivably be the problem. Supposedly you can change it 
out from up above the drivers footwell, but it looks pretty difficult 
getting to it and switching the wires. I took out the steering wheel 
locking unit/key tumbler on which the switch is mounted to change it, 
and that was a PIA since MB designed it to thwart thieves.

~~



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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[clay via Mercedes]

my w220 has been laid up for five weeks.  Still waiting for it to get fixed.  
Cluster rebuild is expensive and worth more than the car

clay

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a newer 
> vehicle.
> 
> RB
> 
> On 21/03/2017 4:35 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
>> Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical gremlins 
>> in the 240D (81)
>> 
>> The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas) not 
>> designed by MB/Bosch
>> 
>> These circuits all went out at the same time:
>> Gas gauge
>> temp gauge
>> turn signals (4 ways work)
>> both window circuits
>> heater blower
>> 
>> Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis grounds 
>> behind the cluster.
>> 
>> It resulted in no change.
>> 
>> I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I would 
>> hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.
>> 
>> Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits in the 
>> fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.
>> 
>> I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my thinking 
>> is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does not appear to be 
>> the grounds  behind the cluster.
>> 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

And don't forget to CHANGE YOUR FUSES

--FT


On 3/21/17 7:59 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

Many fuses are downstream of switches and  get power only when certain
switch configurations are set.  F1, for example should only get power when
the light switch in park or headlight OR with the light switch in left or
right standing AND the ignition switch in off or acc.

You really need to look at pp 104-105 (power distribution) of the ETM and
identify specific circuits that fail to get power even with the switches set
right.  Power or no-power at any fuse doesn't indicate anything unless you
know the switch settings.

Basically, ALL of the power (except starter) comes into the light switch
first and most of it is fed from there to the ignition switch via two wires.
But there is also one wire from the light switch hot feed to the fuse box
fuses 2 and (I think) 6 that should be powered at all times; this wire it
also powers the windows through a relay.  Fuse 2 is supposed to power turn
signals (among many other things).  The two (a and b) window fuses should
only be powered if the window relay is powered through fuse 12 (ignition
switch in run or start).

Hope this helps.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
Curley McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:20 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top
row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, all

have no

juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for headlights

and

tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights
work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital
meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even
numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.

Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.

That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a closed
circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be made by

wiggling

the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key counterclockwise.

The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> March 21,
2017 at 4:51 PM Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole
lot worse on a newer vehicle.

RB




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Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com> March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical
gremlins in the 240D (81)

The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas)
not designed by MB/Bosch

These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis
grounds behind the cluster.

It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I
would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.

Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits
in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.

I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does
not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.



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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

[MG via Mercedes]

The fuses for the lights will not be carrying power till you turn 
on the light switch. Those would be 1,3,7,9,11,13. The lights are 
supplied power straight from the battery power bus, so the 
ignition switch will not affect them anyway.


That said everything points to fuse 12. Take the thing out and 
throw it as far as you can and replace it with a brand new copper 
or brass fuse.




Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top 
row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, all 
have no juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for 
headlights and tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights 
work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital 
meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even 
numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.


Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.

That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a 
closed circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be 
made by wiggling the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key 
counterclockwise.


The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
March 21, 2017 at 4:51 PM
Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole lot worse on a 
newer vehicle.


RB




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Curley McLain 
March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical 
gremlins in the 240D (81)


The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas) 
not designed by MB/Bosch


These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis 
grounds behind the cluster.


It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I 
would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.


Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits 
in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.


I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my 
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does 
not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.





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Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins (Resolved)

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

1981 240D  123.123

Got the electrical problem figgered out.  If Manfred didn't already have 
a keg of bier, (good, German) i'd buy him a bottle.  Manfred suggested 
fuse 12.  Sure enough, when I took fuse 12 out, the bottom stayed stuck 
to the fuse holder.  It looked fine, but was broken at the clamp of the 
holder.  I am out of red fuses here, so I robbed one form the sunroof, 
and all is now well again.


Mahalo Nui Loa


Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
March 21, 2017 at 6:59 PM
Many fuses are downstream of switches and  get power only when certain
switch configurations are set.  F1, for example should only get power when
the light switch in park or headlight OR with the light switch in left or
right standing AND the ignition switch in off or acc.

You really need to look at pp 104-105 (power distribution) of the ETM and
identify specific circuits that fail to get power even with the switches set
right.  Power or no-power at any fuse doesn't indicate anything unless you
know the switch settings.

Basically, ALL of the power (except starter) comes into the light switch
first and most of it is fed from there to the ignition switch via two wires.
But there is also one wire from the light switch hot feed to the fuse box
fuses 2 and (I think) 6 that should be powered at all times; this wire it
also powers the windows through a relay.  Fuse 2 is supposed to power turn
signals (among many other things).  The two (a and b) window fuses should
only be powered if the window relay is powered through fuse 12 (ignition
switch in run or start).

Hope this helps.


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of
Curley McLain via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:20 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Curley McLain<126die...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 240D 123 Lucas gremlins

Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top
row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, all

have no

juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them are for headlights

and

tail lights, but weirdly, the headlights and taillights
work, but the turn signals don't.   I checked this with a good digital
meter, black on engine, red probing fuse contacts.  Bottom fuses (Even
numbers) and fses c, d, on the right, all showed 12.13V.

Switch?  Wire from switch?   Headlights are unswitched...but they work.

That was my first thought, but no amount of wiggling could create a closed
circuit, where generally with a bad switch, the contact can be made by

wiggling

the key, or switching on, off, or wiggling key counterclockwise.

The list being sure it was a ground, I tried there second.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>  March 21,
2017 at 4:51 PM Aren't you glad it is a simple car? Could be a whole
lot worse on a newer vehicle.

RB




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Curley McLain<mailto:126die...@gmail.com>  March 21, 2017 at 4:35 PM
Y'all may remember a couple weeks ago I posted about the electrical
gremlins in the 240D (81)

The thing acts like it is possessed by the prince of darkness (Lucas)
not designed by MB/Bosch

These circuits all went out at the same time:
Gas gauge
temp gauge
turn signals (4 ways work)
both window circuits
heater blower

Today I dug into the cluster and loosened and tightened the chassis
grounds behind the cluster.

It resulted in no change.

I left the switch on in the process so if bad contact was made good, I
would hear the blower or other circuits working.  There was nothing.

Where to look next?  Either there is a bad feed to multiple circuits
in the fusebox or bad ground that affects all these circuits.

I'll head out with a meter to be sure all are getting juice, but my
thinking is still that I am chasing a bad ground somewhere.  It does
not appear to be the grounds  behind the cluster.



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Curley McLain <mailto:126die...@gmail.com>
March 21, 2017 at 5:20 PM
Yes. I am glad it is a 123.  The weirdness continues anyhow.   The top 
row of fuses: 1,3,5,7,... and window fuses a and b on the left side, 
all have no juice, switch on, according to the meter.  Some of them 
are for headlights and tail lights, but weirdly, the headlig