Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
That was a test to see if anyone was paying attention. You pass.

On Aug 11, 2016 8:09 PM, "Mountain Man via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Andrew wrote:
> > I love the sense of danger, not to mention the hilarity of it all
>
> There you go again.  Too much Hillary.
> ...hilarity...  Hillary
> ;-)
> mao
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes 
Andrew wrote:
> I love the sense of danger, not to mention the hilarity of it all

There you go again.  Too much Hillary.
...hilarity...  Hillary
;-)
mao

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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
I love the sense of danger, not to mention the hilarity of it all

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 4:45 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Yup - I don't even like electric flaps or retractable gear - - -
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
> > piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the
> lowest
> > bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
> > exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
> > functional...
> >
> > Yep...
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> > > some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the
> F-16
> > > prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> > > Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were
> > various
> > > aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that
> > sort
> > > of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> > > maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> > > fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
> > >
> > > --FT
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
> >  actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly
> the
> >  beasts.
> > 
> > >>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> > >>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> > >>> robotic)
> > >>>
> > >> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of
> gravity
> > on
> > >> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or
> even a
> > >> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's
> almost
> > >> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
> > >> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Craig
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > > --
> > > --FT
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread OK Don via Mercedes 
Yup - I don't even like electric flaps or retractable gear - - -

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
> piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the lowest
> bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
> exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
> functional...
>
> Yep...
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> > some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16
> > prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> > Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were
> various
> > aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that
> sort
> > of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> > maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> > fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
>  actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
>  beasts.
> 
> >>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> >>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> >>> robotic)
> >>>
> >> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity
> on
> >> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
> >> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
> >> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
> >> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
That's sort of the way I feel while reading 90 percent of the posts on this
list.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:24 PM, G Mann via Mercedes 
wrote:

> It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
> piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the lowest
> bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
> exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
> functional...
>
> Yep...
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> > some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16
> > prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> > Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were
> various
> > aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that
> sort
> > of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> > maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> > fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
> >
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
>  actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
>  beasts.
> 
> >>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> >>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> >>> robotic)
> >>>
> >> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity
> on
> >> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
> >> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
> >> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
> >> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread G Mann via Mercedes 
It just has to be comforting to fly into battle, and be shot at, while
piloting an inherently unstable aircraft, built of parts made by the lowest
bidder, controlled by microchips, while doing violent maneuvers which
exceed the human bodies ability to survive and remain mentally
functional...

Yep...

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have
> some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16
> prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA
> Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were various
> aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with that sort
> of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft enhances its
> maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy things a
> fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!
>
> --FT
>
>
> On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
 actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
 beasts.

>>> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
>>> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
>>> robotic)
>>>
>> For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity on
>> the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
>> little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
>> impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
>> too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
> --
> --FT
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
That started with the F-16 back in the 70s I believe.  Somewhere I have 
some photos of the YF-12A (I think that is what it was called), the F-16 
prototype, doing some maneuvers at Langley AFB. I was working at NASA 
Langley as an intern in the Flight Research group where there were 
various aircraft (airplanes and helicopters) that were being tested with 
that sort of control system.  Having a statically-unstable aircraft 
enhances its maneuverability as it really really wants to do those crazy 
things a fighter pilot sometimes wants it to do!


--FT


On 8/11/16 2:39 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:




It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s
actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the
beasts.

Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
robotic)

For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity on
the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.


Craig

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--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Craig via Mercedes 
On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:29:27 -0500 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> 
> 
> > It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s 
> > actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the 
> > beasts.
>
> Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor
> inputs allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely
> robotic)

For improved performance -- particularly in roll, the center of gravity on
the newer fighters is moved backward so the plane is right on, or even a
little over the edge of instability. With this arrangement, it's almost
impossible for a person to fly the plane successfully -- it just takes
too much sensitive controlling of the ailerons, elevator, and rudder.


Craig

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[MBZ] B-52 Wuz:'07 E320CDI

2016-08-11 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes 



It is comforting, at least, to know the guys who fly the B-52s 
actually fly them, and other than auto pilot, no software can fly the 
beasts.
Unfortunately, the newer fighters are flown by digits, with minor inputs 
allowed by the human.  (but only until they are completely robotic)


Curley McLain 
August 11, 2016 at 10:31 AM

The guys who believe software can/should run everything seldom have to 
live with the consequences of those decisions.


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