Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> > fmiser wrote:
> > 
> > Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
> > governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused
> > by max power and high RPM that clears junk out.

> Gerry wrote:
>
> Well, guess I'll have to wait until a trip to Georgia or beyond
> since we don't have any hills to speak of here in Florida. The
> only way I can think of to do what you suggest would be to pull
> a heavy loaded trailer at high speed on Floridas flat roads.

I have considered an aerodynamic load would be best.  Something
like a sailboat with the sail set athwart.  The faster the car
goes, the "heavier" the load - but without the weight.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

yeah, If ya think FlahDuh is flat, head west from Winnipeg!


tyee165 via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 5:22 PM
The closest good hill is probably 75 miles from home. I have done the 
hard run uphill and the temp gauge sure does climb




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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

The closest good hill is probably 75 miles from home. I have done the hard run 
uphill and the temp gauge sure does climb


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 Date: 2017-12-30  2:44 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List  Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel 
= higher EGT, but within the limit.   My old Bosch guy said every Diesel 
should have an EGT gauge.  I looked into the price and having to get a 
nub welded on the down pipe 40 yrs ago and the finances voted against 
the EGT gauge.

> fmiser via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 30, 2017 at 1:26 PM tbe ha
>> archer75--- wrote:rd ru
>
>> My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
>> driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
>> shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather.
>
>> I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
>> cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
>> engine temp topping out.
>
> Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
> engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
> temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
> couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
> try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
> need a bigger hill to do it well.
>
> Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
> governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
> max power and high RPM that clears junk out.
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 30, 2017 at 5:16 PM archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>  SIL has a Grady White offshore boat that probably weighs that much or more.
> Gerry


There ya go. An offshore sportfisher is as good as a parachute. 
Set the cruise for 80mph, turn on the A/C and watch the temperature gauge.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

 
> In Florida there's no such thing as a big hill, so you hitch up a 2,000lb 
> boat trailer and do a few 0-70 runs. 
> Mitch.
> ___
That's an idea. SIL has a Grady White offshore boat that probably weighs that 
much or more.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

No cooking oil.  A tank of B80 to B100 will clean out the fuel system 
for sure.  It will probably help with the carbon in the cyl.

A steady diet of B20 is nice if you can find a source.
I ran some cars on B100 when I had some available.  No problems if you 
have compatible fuel lines.




archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 3:54 PM
Max Dillon wrote:

Gerry,
Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?


G: I'll try that. I've also heard that a tank, or partial tank, of refined 
cooking oil will clean out diesel engines?


A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are good then 
rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals.  Inspect the delivery 
valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals.  If that seat looks 
rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge or just get a new delivery 
valve.


G: It's been a long time since I've done anything to the 300D engine, so I'll 
check out all those possibilities if the Liqui-Molly doesn't help.
I've also heard that a tank of biodiesel will clean the carbon out of a diesel 
engine?


A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300


Yep, I was wrong about that. Thanks.

Gerry

On December 30, 2017 7:17:21 AM EST, archer75--- via 
Mercedes  wrote:

My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven
much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine
at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been
meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I
vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the
cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping
out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run
better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
Gerry

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:

Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo)

this a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps
were low teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.
Battery minder (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt.
Engine had not run in weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last
year.  I haven't been driving the car because I need to replace the
flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).

The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at

idle although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.
After driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just
slight diesel shake).

Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?

Hard engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky
injector that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake
was more violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).

Any thoughts?


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Max Dillon via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 7:50 AM
Gerry,

Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?

A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are 
good then rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals. Inspect 
the delivery valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals. 
If that seat looks rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge 
or just get a new delivery valve.


A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 6:17 AM
My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven 
much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine 
at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been 
meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I 
vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the 
cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping 
out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run 
better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.

Gerry


Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 9:43 PM
Different start problem sc

Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Max Dillon wrote:
> Gerry,
> Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?

G: I'll try that. I've also heard that a tank, or partial tank, of refined 
cooking oil will clean out diesel engines?
 
> A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are good then 
> rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals.  Inspect the delivery 
> valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals.  If that seat looks 
> rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge or just get a new delivery 
> valve.

G: It's been a long time since I've done anything to the 300D engine, so I'll 
check out all those possibilities if the Liqui-Molly doesn't help. 
I've also heard that a tank of biodiesel will clean the carbon out of a diesel 
engine?
 
> A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300

Yep, I was wrong about that. Thanks.

Gerry
> 
> On December 30, 2017 7:17:21 AM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> >My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven
> >much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine
> >at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been
> >meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I
> >vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the
> >cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping
> >out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run
> >better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
> >Gerry
> >
> >Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
> >> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo)
> >this a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps
> >were low teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it. 
> >Battery minder (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt. 
> >Engine had not run in weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last
> >year.  I haven't been driving the car because I need to replace the
> >flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
> >> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at
> >idle although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration. 
> >After driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just
> >slight diesel shake).
> >> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold? 
> >Hard engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky
> >injector that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake
> >was more violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
> >> Any thoughts?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Gettin the 240D up to 90 should do it, even on a flat road!  ;)
What does that translate to on a 300D 123?  110?  120?

 just kidding.  I think redline is 82 mph.

It has been a joke since a state snooper gave #1 son a ticket for going 
86m MPH downhill in his 66 200D, with his mom in the passenger seat!


Methinks the radar was NOT properly calibrated!


archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 3:05 PM
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:26:38 -0600

Well, guess I'll have to wait until a trip to Georgia or beyond since 
we don't have any hills to speak of here in Florida.
The only way I can think of to do what you suggest would be to pull a 
heavy loaded trailer at high speed on Floridas flat roads.

Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

There's more.  That was just making a list off the top of my head of the 
most likely candidates.I'd do the first two to four, then consider 
if any others are worthwhile or just put up with it.



archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 2:54 PM
Thanks. I'll check those possibilities and put in a new shock absorber.
Gerry
~


Curley McLain 
December 30, 2017 at 11:02 AM
Transmission mount?
Engine mount shock absorber(s)?
Glow plugs?
Air leaks?
Uneven compression?
Uneven valve adjustment?
Unbalanced injector nozzles?
IP problem?

I put a new engine shock on the 81 240D (it only has one) and that 
smoothed out the idle A BUNCH!





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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:26:38 -0600
fmiser via Mercedes  wrote:

> > archer75--- wrote:
> 
> > My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
> > driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
> > shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather. 
> 
> > I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
> > cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
> > engine temp topping out. 
> 
> Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
> engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
> temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
> couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
> try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
> need a bigger hill to do it well.
> 
> Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
> governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
> max power and high RPM that clears junk out.
> 
> ___

Well, guess I'll have to wait until a trip to Georgia or beyond since we don't 
have any hills to speak of here in Florida.
The only way I can think of to do what you suggest would be to pull a heavy 
loaded trailer at high speed on Floridas flat roads.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Thanks. I'll check those possibilities and put in a new shock absorber.
Gerry
~
Curley McLain via Mercedes  wrote:

> Transmission mount?
> Engine mount shock absorber(s)?
> Glow plugs?
> Air leaks?
> Uneven compression?
> Uneven valve adjustment?
> Unbalanced injector nozzles?
> IP problem?
> 
> I put a new engine shock on the 81 240D (it only has one) and that 
> smoothed out the idle A BUNCH!
> 
> 
> > archer75--- via Mercedes 
> > December 30, 2017 at 6:17 AM
> > My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven 
> > much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine 
> > at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been 
> > meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I 
> > vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the 
> > cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping 
> > out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run 
> > better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
> > Gerry
> >
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

= higher EGT, but within the limit.   My old Bosch guy said every Diesel 
should have an EGT gauge.  I looked into the price and having to get a 
nub welded on the down pipe 40 yrs ago and the finances voted against 
the EGT gauge.



fmiser via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 1:26 PM

archer75--- wrote:



My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather.



I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
engine temp topping out.


Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
need a bigger hill to do it well.

Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
max power and high RPM that clears junk out.




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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

In Florida there's no such thing as a big hill, so you hitch up a 2,000lb boat 
trailer and do a few 0-70 runs. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> archer75--- wrote:

> My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
> driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
> shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather. 

> I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
> cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
> engine temp topping out. 

Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
need a bigger hill to do it well.

Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
max power and high RPM that clears junk out.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Transmission mount?
Engine mount shock absorber(s)?
Glow plugs?
Air leaks?
Uneven compression?
Uneven valve adjustment?
Unbalanced injector nozzles?
IP problem?

I put a new engine shock on the 81 240D (it only has one) and that 
smoothed out the idle A BUNCH!




archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 6:17 AM
My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven 
much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine 
at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been 
meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I 
vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the 
cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping 
out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run 
better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.

Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Dr Booth said drive it as soon as the oil pressure needle comes up.


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 Date: 2017-12-29  10:32 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List  Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel 


> G Mann via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 29, 2017 at 10:18 PM
>
>
> *Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine 
> before
> putting it under work load... *
And still Valid Advice today!  Along with always allowing a turbo engine 
at least 5 min idle cooldown from highway speeds or other heavy loading 
(= high exhaust gas temperatures) before shutting it down.  Both the 
warm up and the cool down together prevent head cracking.
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry,

Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?

A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are good then 
rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals.  Inspect the delivery 
valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals.  If that seat looks 
rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge or just get a new delivery 
valve.

A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 30, 2017 7:17:21 AM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven
>much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine
>at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been
>meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I
>vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the
>cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping
>out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run
>better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
>Gerry
>
>Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
>> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo)
>this a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps
>were low teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it. 
>Battery minder (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt. 
>Engine had not run in weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last
>year.  I haven't been driving the car because I need to replace the
>flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
>> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at
>idle although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration. 
>After driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just
>slight diesel shake).
>> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold? 
>Hard engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky
>injector that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake
>was more violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven much, 
does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine at idle in any 
kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been meaning to ask the group 
about that but always forgot to do so. I vaguely recall that carbon buildup is 
supposed to be the cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with 
the engine temp topping out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D 
engine run better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
Gerry

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo) this a.m. 
> for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps were low teens 
> overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.  Battery minder (usually 
> on) was disconnected before start attempt.  Engine had not run in weeks and 
> probably only drove 50 miles in last year.  I haven't been driving the car 
> because I need to replace the flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at idle 
> although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.  After driving 
> about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just slight diesel shake).
> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?  Hard engine 
> mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky injector that 
> wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake was more violent 
> than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Curley wrote:

> The OM621/61x starters are basically tractor
> or truck starters.  Very durable.

And the danger in long cranking is heat.  If the situation is
sub-freezing cold-start, heat is not much of an issue.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 20:18:26 -0800 G Mann via Mercedes
 wrote:

> *Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine
> before putting it under work load... *

That's what the owner's manuals for our big trucks say, particularly
cautioning letting the oil warm up so the turbo(s) is (are) not spun
without lubrication.

But the big truck engines are direct injection and take a LONG time to
warm up!!!

We all on this list have been told that that is not advisable for indirect
injection diesels like our small, high-speed Mercedes engines. Instead,
the thought was that running with a light load after oil pressures were
normal would cause the engine to warm up more quickly and help to not
carbon up the prechambers.

Our '90 E300D/2.5 Turbo warms up in about 5 minutes from below freezing.
Sometimes our Peterbilt has taken 30+ minutes to get to the 135 deg.F.
the owner's manual says it should be before putting light loads on it.
I haven't paid much attention to the Kenworth, with the larger engine,
but I know it takes longer ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

G Mann via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 10:18 PM


*Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine 
before

putting it under work load... *
And still Valid Advice today!  Along with always allowing a turbo engine 
at least 5 min idle cooldown from highway speeds or other heavy loading 
(= high exhaust gas temperatures) before shutting it down.  Both the 
warm up and the cool down together prevent head cracking.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Thought:
Uber cold engine, plus cold fuel, combine to slow down the combustion flame
path, so the fuel air charge which is ignited via compression heat
ignition, burns more slowly and less completely as it drives the piston
down.

Some of the fuel / air charge remains in the cylinder throughout the "power
stroke" and continues to burn during the exhaust stroke. Th*is prolonged
burn has the effect of altering the timing, so the engine is "running
against its self, thus runs poorly.*

*As engine temp rises... the combustion of fuel becomes more rapid, and
"timing" becomes "normal". thus engine runs as expected.*

*Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine before
putting it under work load... *

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo) this
> a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps were low
> teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.  Battery minder
> (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt.  Engine had not run in
> weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last year.  I haven't been
> driving the car because I need to replace the flex disks (procrastinate,
> procrastinate).
> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at idle
> although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.  After
> driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just slight
> diesel shake).
> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?  Hard
> engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky injector
> that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake was more
> violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
> Any thoughts?
>
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo) this a.m. for 
its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps were low teens 
overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.  Battery minder (usually on) 
was disconnected before start attempt.  Engine had not run in weeks and 
probably only drove 50 miles in last year.  I haven't been driving the car 
because I need to replace the flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at idle 
although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.  After driving 
about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just slight diesel shake).
Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?  Hard engine 
mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky injector that 
wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake was more violent than 
my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
Any thoughts?


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

OOPs!  Missed a zero.  That is supposed to be 1000 to 1500 RPM.

Half pedal or full pedal won't make much difference.  On the pumps with 
a side plate, with the plate off, you can see the governor slams the 
rack to full fuel when you start to crank it.  First time I did that I 
about lost a finger trying to hold the rack open then the governor 
slammed the rack to full fuel



Jaime Kopchinski 
December 29, 2017 at 8:45 PM
I have some copies of the original dealer technical bulletins from 
MBNA.  The 1979 statement about cold starting has a lot of tidbids in 
it. But there is a hand written note that says "Engines with ignition 
key controlled preflow system (twlloe indicator lamp), keep foot off 
accelerator during cranking.  Accelerate after engine fires".  Which 
doesn't really make much sense, and actually contradicts the owners 
manual recommendation of keeping your foot to the floor while cranking.


I tend to keep the pedal pressed down about half way, but don't have 
any technical description of whats actually happening to suggest what 
the best method is., so I left it out of the article for now.  I'll 
have to research this a bit more.


Jaime




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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I have some copies of the original dealer technical bulletins from MBNA.
The 1979 statement about cold starting has a lot of tidbids in it. But
there is a hand written note that says "Engines with ignition key
controlled preflow system (twlloe indicator lamp), keep foot off
accelerator during cranking.  Accelerate after engine fires".  Which
doesn't really make much sense, and actually contradicts the owners manual
recommendation of keeping your foot to the floor while cranking.

I tend to keep the pedal pressed down about half way, but don't have any
technical description of whats actually happening to suggest what the best
method is., so I left it out of the article for now.  I'll have to research
this a bit more.

Jaime


On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Under normal starting, floor it until the engine starts, then try to hold
> 100 to 1500 RPM until the engine is stable to idle.
>
> In a long cranking session, stay off the fuel until there are signs of
> life, then crack it as you suggest.
>
> Yes, in my 1962 190Dc manual it said you may crank it up to 60 seconds,
> then I think it was 2  minutes rest, then crank again up to 60 seconds.
> The OM621/61x starters are basically tractor or truck starters.  Very
> durable.
>
> archer75--- via Mercedes 
>> December 29, 2017 at 6:10 PM
>>
>> Very good!
>> I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.
>>
>> One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a long
>> cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the idle
>> amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
>> Gerry
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Under normal starting, floor it until the engine starts, then try to 
hold 100 to 1500 RPM until the engine is stable to idle.


In a long cranking session, stay off the fuel until there are signs of 
life, then crack it as you suggest.


Yes, in my 1962 190Dc manual it said you may crank it up to 60 seconds, 
then I think it was 2  minutes rest, then crank again up to 60 seconds.  
The OM621/61x starters are basically tractor or truck starters.  Very 
durable.



archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 6:10 PM

Very good!
I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.

One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a 
long cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than 
the idle amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?

Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry, the owner's manual specifies for cold start to hold the accelerator 
pedal to the floor and keep it there until after you release the key and the 
engine speed begins to increase, and then let up slowly so the engine doesn't 
die.  Remember the governor in the fuel pump will limit the fuel so you cannot 
"flood" the engine.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 29, 2017 7:10:09 PM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
>
>> Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together
>yesterday:
>>
>http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/
>> Enjoy,
>> Jaime Kopchinski
>> http://www.jaimekop.com/
>> ___
>
>Very good!
>I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.
>
>One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a
>long cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the
>idle amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
>Gerry 
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I used to do the 3 glows then crank the heck out of till it starts

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:25:59 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Back in mi 61x days you cranked it until it either started or the
>> battery died. If you stopped you would not have a 2nd go at it. 
> 
> But wasn't that after extended glowing?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:25:59 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> Back in mi 61x days you cranked it until it either started or the
> battery died. If you stopped you would not have a 2nd go at it. 

But wasn't that after extended glowing?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Back in mi 61x days you cranked it until it either started or the battery died. 
If you stopped you would not have a 2nd go at it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 6:10 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
> 
>> Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
>> http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/
>> Enjoy,
>> Jaime Kopchinski
>> http://www.jaimekop.com/
>> ___
> 
> Very good!
> I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.
> 
> One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a long 
> cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the idle 
> amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
> Gerry 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

> Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
> http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/
> Enjoy,
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___

Very good!
I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.

One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a long 
cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the idle amount 
seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
Gerry 

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Excellent!Great work!


Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 4:55 PM
Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/

Enjoy,
Jaime




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[MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/

Enjoy,
Jaime


-- 
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http://www.jaimekop.com/
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