Re: [MBZ] Ghost Stories
Have you tried to interview Keith Richards? I think he is a ghost. On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Dan Weeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the paranormal is quite real. I've never experienced any of it myself, but I've heard enough from credible people--including my father, a Phd. physicist and sceptic who experienced one such event which he cheerfully admits that he can not explain rationally--to believe that they can occur. Certainly there is much that we don't know, and that our rational/scientific culture can not explain or even provide language or a frame of reference for, although other cultures--generally nonwestern--can and do. The problem is, in this culture anyway, paranormal stuff often interests people who have a deep emotional need to believe, along with folks who are more than happy to take advantage of them. In fact, there's a whole tear-jerking, feel-good TV show--I think it's called Ghost Whisperer, or something similar, that does exactly this. So a lot of dross gets mixed in with the gold, and at least some paranormal stuff bandied about is probably wishful thinking or outright fakery. But I am convinced it does exist. I'm a magazine article and nonfiction book writer, and for some time my career goal has been to interview a ghost. So far, no luck, but I remain open and inclined toward the possibility. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- LT Don http://don.homelinux.net/~don/ apt-get update apt-get upgrade The following packages will be replaced Prez Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Ghost stories
(From another list:) Pete wrote: I'm confused about how we handle paranormal events. These cannot be explained logically, yet I have personally experienced them several times myself. They cannot be explained with simple psychology either, as they are physical manifestations revealing knowledge that no one can know. In my other discussions it seems that this whole world of the paranormal is dismissed without any real reasoning, usually with a sense of fear. It doesn't appear much on our discussion lists. What do _you_ think? Is there more between heaven and earth than we can explain? ... Al wrote: I've encountered quite a few people who have extrasensory experiences. There may be a genetically determined characteristic of the mind/brain since it seems to run in families. Jim Smith (now deceased), a longtime member of this and other mailing lists, could think about his dog in the next room and the dog would shortly come to him. He was a law professor and not one given to joking or exaggeration. Only last week I thought about my old brother-in-law up north with some concern. I asked my daughter to call him and see how he was. She found that he had fairly severely injured his hand while working on a window. Normally I don't think about him or have any contact with him at all. The validation and explanation of extrasensory phenomena will be on a par with the discoveries of Newton and Einstein when it happens, but I don't think it will happen in our lifetimes. John ... Ted wrote: One night in 1974 when I was in Hawaii aboard ship in the Navy, I dreamed that my grandmother had come to visit me and we spent a nice day walking around the Naval base. About a week later, I received a letter from my mother that my grandmother had died in Pennsylvania on the same day of my dream. My wife says that she has had a dark visitor come into our bedroom several times over the past, and each time that she has seen or dreamed of this vistor, it was a precursor to our getting a message that a relative had died: her mother, her father, and my aunt. I don't know if these things or the other types of paranormal events can be explained rationally at this time. Certainly, they cannot be investigated with scientific rigor with the current tools available. But, I wonder if these events are only para-normal because we do not yet have the means to observe and document the events. Perhaps there is an alternative form of reality which we, at the present time, can only perceive in fragments. The situation could be analogous to that of the ancients who could only perceive of a flat earth until the tools and science were available to demonstrate that the earth was round. Similarly, pre-Copernicans perceived the sun rotating about the earth until they had the telescopes and mathemathics to understand what the real situation was. Perhaps we see paranormal events as a sort of hysteria/magic/etc, because we don't yet have the tools and the science/mathematics/psychology to understand a different level of reality? . From George: I have never seen a ghost myself, but sensed and heard. And my experience falls under what I call paranormal. After my mother died, the rest of the family were of course distressed. But apart from grief, we all felt this very uneasy feeling of being watched all the time. It was quite frustrating and an eerie feeling. Then about a month after the funeral I woke up in the middle of the night from three very heavy knocks on the front door. This was odd, because in order to get to the front door you needed to walk on a gravel path which went right by my bedroom, and I always woke up from the gravel sound - but not this time. There had been no sound on the gravel. I recognized the sound as being from the doorknocker we had, so I started thinking perhaps the wind had lifted it somehow. But it was a very heavy brass doorknocker, and as a small child even I had problems lifting it - how could the wind? As I was still contemplating where those three knocks came from, suddenly there were three heavy knocks on my bedroom door. I got terrified and turned on the lights. Then I heard how there were three knocks on each door in sequence throughout the house, ending with my father's bedroom door, which would have been the last if you were walking around. Then all fell silent. I was petrified, and did not dare to turn off the lights. I could not go back to sleep, I just cowered under the blankets until morning, watching the sun come up. There was never any gravel sound. Although I was still very shaken, I got up and carefully opened the door, thinking that if someone had gotten into the house, they should still be there. All looked normal. I went
Re: [MBZ] Ghost stories
Different cultures have different understanding of these phenomena - Original Message - From: archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:13 PM Subject: [MBZ] Ghost stories (From another list:) Pete wrote: I'm confused about how we handle paranormal events. These cannot be explained logically, yet I have personally experienced them several times myself. They cannot be explained with simple psychology either, as they are physical manifestations revealing knowledge that no one can know. In my other discussions it seems that this whole world of the paranormal is dismissed without any real reasoning, usually with a sense of fear. It doesn't appear much on our discussion lists. What do _you_ think? Is there more between heaven and earth than we can explain? ... Al wrote: I've encountered quite a few people who have extrasensory experiences. There may be a genetically determined characteristic of the mind/brain since it seems to run in families. Jim Smith (now deceased), a longtime member of this and other mailing lists, could think about his dog in the next room and the dog would shortly come to him. He was a law professor and not one given to joking or exaggeration. Only last week I thought about my old brother-in-law up north with some concern. I asked my daughter to call him and see how he was. She found that he had fairly severely injured his hand while working on a window. Normally I don't think about him or have any contact with him at all. The validation and explanation of extrasensory phenomena will be on a par with the discoveries of Newton and Einstein when it happens, but I don't think it will happen in our lifetimes. John ... Ted wrote: One night in 1974 when I was in Hawaii aboard ship in the Navy, I dreamed that my grandmother had come to visit me and we spent a nice day walking around the Naval base. About a week later, I received a letter from my mother that my grandmother had died in Pennsylvania on the same day of my dream. My wife says that she has had a dark visitor come into our bedroom several times over the past, and each time that she has seen or dreamed of this vistor, it was a precursor to our getting a message that a relative had died: her mother, her father, and my aunt. I don't know if these things or the other types of paranormal events can be explained rationally at this time. Certainly, they cannot be investigated with scientific rigor with the current tools available. But, I wonder if these events are only para-normal because we do not yet have the means to observe and document the events. Perhaps there is an alternative form of reality which we, at the present time, can only perceive in fragments. The situation could be analogous to that of the ancients who could only perceive of a flat earth until the tools and science were available to demonstrate that the earth was round. Similarly, pre-Copernicans perceived the sun rotating about the earth until they had the telescopes and mathemathics to understand what the real situation was. Perhaps we see paranormal events as a sort of hysteria/magic/etc, because we don't yet have the tools and the science/mathematics/psychology to understand a different level of reality? . From George: I have never seen a ghost myself, but sensed and heard. And my experience falls under what I call paranormal. After my mother died, the rest of the family were of course distressed. But apart from grief, we all felt this very uneasy feeling of being watched all the time. It was quite frustrating and an eerie feeling. Then about a month after the funeral I woke up in the middle of the night from three very heavy knocks on the front door. This was odd, because in order to get to the front door you needed to walk on a gravel path which went right by my bedroom, and I always woke up from the gravel sound - but not this time. There had been no sound on the gravel. I recognized the sound as being from the doorknocker we had, so I started thinking perhaps the wind had lifted it somehow. But it was a very heavy brass doorknocker, and as a small child even I had problems lifting it - how could the wind? As I was still contemplating where those three knocks came from, suddenly there were three heavy knocks on my bedroom door. I got terrified and turned on the lights. Then I heard how there were three knocks on each door in sequence throughout the house, ending with my father's bedroom door, which would have been the last if you were walking around. Then all fell silent. I was petrified, and did not dare to turn off the lights. I could not go back to sleep, I
[MBZ] Ghost Stories
I think the paranormal is quite real. I've never experienced any of it myself, but I've heard enough from credible people--including my father, a Phd. physicist and sceptic who experienced one such event which he cheerfully admits that he can not explain rationally--to believe that they can occur. Certainly there is much that we don't know, and that our rational/scientific culture can not explain or even provide language or a frame of reference for, although other cultures--generally nonwestern--can and do. The problem is, in this culture anyway, paranormal stuff often interests people who have a deep emotional need to believe, along with folks who are more than happy to take advantage of them. In fact, there's a whole tear-jerking, feel-good TV show--I think it's called Ghost Whisperer, or something similar, that does exactly this. So a lot of dross gets mixed in with the gold, and at least some paranormal stuff bandied about is probably wishful thinking or outright fakery. But I am convinced it does exist. I'm a magazine article and nonfiction book writer, and for some time my career goal has been to interview a ghost. So far, no luck, but I remain open and inclined toward the possibility. Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ghost stories
My personal experiences are not quite as dramatic, but my father spoke of being on guard duty during the Battle of the Bulge [Germany, WWII, for you young folks]. He said his mother came to see him and spoke to him about 20 minutes. He was not at all surprised when he later got word that she had died that night. My Sister's Father-in-law lived with them for the last few years of his life. One morning when my sister went into his room to make sure he was ok he told her that her daddy had come to visit him the night before. He had stayed about 20 - 30 minutes sitting in a chair in the room, and told him that his family was waiting to see him, and everything would be alright. Out dad had been dead for a few years then, and her father-in-law died that night. My personal experiences relate to foreknowledge with both my [then] future wife and other instances, but are not quite so dramatic. As for how one can speak of these things, the only philosophy that includes such a possibility as part of carefully reasoned thought is that of Alfred North Whitehead. If you are so inclined much of the basis can be found if Process and Reality. Plan on reading it several times before it begins to make sense. BillR Jacksonville FL 1981 300SD 301k miles -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mak Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:12 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Ghost stories Different cultures have different understanding of these phenomena - Original Message - From: archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List Mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:13 PM Subject: [MBZ] Ghost stories (From another list:) Pete wrote: I'm confused about how we handle paranormal events. These cannot be explained logically, yet I have personally experienced them several times myself. They cannot be explained with simple psychology either, as they are physical manifestations revealing knowledge that no one can know. In my other discussions it seems that this whole world of the paranormal is dismissed without any real reasoning, usually with a sense of fear. It doesn't appear much on our discussion lists. What do _you_ think? Is there more between heaven and earth than we can explain? ... Al wrote: I've encountered quite a few people who have extrasensory experiences. There may be a genetically determined characteristic of the mind/brain since it seems to run in families. Jim Smith (now deceased), a longtime member of this and other mailing lists, could think about his dog in the next room and the dog would shortly come to him. He was a law professor and not one given to joking or exaggeration. Only last week I thought about my old brother-in-law up north with some concern. I asked my daughter to call him and see how he was. She found that he had fairly severely injured his hand while working on a window. Normally I don't think about him or have any contact with him at all. The validation and explanation of extrasensory phenomena will be on a par with the discoveries of Newton and Einstein when it happens, but I don't think it will happen in our lifetimes. John ... Ted wrote: One night in 1974 when I was in Hawaii aboard ship in the Navy, I dreamed that my grandmother had come to visit me and we spent a nice day walking around the Naval base. About a week later, I received a letter from my mother that my grandmother had died in Pennsylvania on the same day of my dream. My wife says that she has had a dark visitor come into our bedroom several times over the past, and each time that she has seen or dreamed of this vistor, it was a precursor to our getting a message that a relative had died: her mother, her father, and my aunt. I don't know if these things or the other types of paranormal events can be explained rationally at this time. Certainly, they cannot be investigated with scientific rigor with the current tools available. But, I wonder if these events are only para-normal because we do not yet have the means to observe and document the events. Perhaps there is an alternative form of reality which we, at the present time, can only perceive in fragments. The situation could be analogous to that of the ancients who could only perceive of a flat earth until the tools and science were available to demonstrate that the earth was round. Similarly, pre-Copernicans perceived the sun rotating about the earth until they had the telescopes and mathemathics to understand what the real situation was. Perhaps we see paranormal events as a sort of hysteria/magic/etc, because we don't yet have the tools and the science/mathematics/psychology to understand a different level of reality
Re: [MBZ] Ghost stories
20 years ago I suffered a rather serious heart attack, at that time they did not immediately go in and do corrective procedures. They chose to have you stay in Intensive Care, I joke that they were testing my will to live. I was medicated with some type of drug (Maybe Halciene?) to help me relax. For 9 days, i drifted in and out, I dreamed very pleasant dreams of all those who had gone before me. Parents, GrandParents, Fellows we lost in 'Nam, even old pets. It's a memory, not all bad... Pete ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Ghost stories
I Want to Believe. The Truth Is Out There. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
